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2005-02-14 Home Front: WoT

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Posted by tipper 2005-02-14 01:03|| || Front Page|| [11130 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 A MUST READ!

Posted by Chuck Simmins 2005-02-14 8:49:32 AM|| [http://blog.simmins.org] 2005-02-14 8:49:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Bravo to Popular Mechanics for dissecting and refuting these people! Its a point by point debunking of the conspiracy theorists attempts to make 9/11 into a US Government Plot instead of what it was - an evil bunch of Jihadi's trying to kill as many infidels as they can.

And thanks to PM also for pointing attention at these sites and people - nothing roaches hate more than light (attention form the rational) and bug spray (truth). Especially assholes like French author Thierry Meyssan -who continues to pump garbage that the US military attempting a coup is behind the whole 9/1 thing - and is widely published in the middle east and France. (A sample quote of what France and the Arab WOrld hears in their "news" as bing the truth: "This attack, could only be committed by United States military personnel against other U.S. military personnel.").

What the hell is wrong with the conspiracy nutbags?

Why must they contort themselves so badly, and try to delude others in their nearly insane attempts to run screaming from the facts?

Another thing to note, nearly every one of these sites was claiming it was a government conspiracy that either crashed military planes into the buildings or allowed the jet liners to hit the buildings on purpose in order to bolster Bush and allow the war to go forward in Afghanistan and eventually Iraq. And every one of those type of sitse is a "hate" site aimed at Bush and the US Military. (For example, Indymedia is one of the cited loon-fest sites).

I think the Hate-Bush crowd is mentally ill, at least this part of it. They simply cannot accept that evil people do evil things with no conspiracy required other than that of the hijackers. Its very "Old Testament" evil - in their hearts they are evil and act accordingly. Liberals and these loons have no conceptual basis forEvil in their world view - moral relativism allows for any and all actions when you push it to the extremes. And add to that the cauldron of hatred these people have for Bush and America: They cannot accept the fact that George Bush has provided solid leadership as a "War President" since 9/11 - that the office forced "W" to grow into a good president instead of a mediocre 1-termer (which was arguably where he was headed before 9/11). SO they go to extremes to produce an alternate reality in which their insanity is allowed to blossom instead of them having to face facts and live in reality where Bush is right and they are wrong.

Posted by OldSpook 2005-02-14 10:05:36 AM|| 2005-02-14 10:05:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Oh, no! They got to the editors of PM. We told to look out for the helicopters and to line their CAT caps with foil, but they didn't listen.

Posted by jackal 2005-02-14 2:04:18 PM|| [http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html] 2005-02-14 2:04:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 WELL OKAY BUT WHAT ABOUT WELLSTONE? HUH? HUH? HUH?AND THE EARTHQUAKE SUNAMI MACHINE AND...AND...AND...

Posted by Lefty Moonbat 2005-02-14 2:11:18 PM|| 2005-02-14 2:11:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 I posted that on LGF last year:

Conspiracy theories just can't be debunked because they feed on belief, not rational thinking.

Who believes in a conspiracy theory first wants to believe in something (in this case, the CIA/Jews/Bush orchestrated 9/11), and then they build their own "facts" around this belief which can't be shattered.

Witnesses will systematically be ignored. They can never be "reliable". Hundreds of people must have seen (and many reported having seen) that plane crossing the freeway they were driving on (it was still rush hour) and flying low towards the nearby Pentagon. They saw that plane seconds before it crashed. But no, they "cannot have seen it crashing into the Pentagon, because all they saw was a plane seconds away from the Pentagon and then a big fireball". How can you be so sure that the plane really hit the Pentagon and not that mysterious missile?
No way to beat that reasoning with stating the obvious, or with the question about just where did this plane go if it didn't hit the Pentagon? And why, if you already had a plane a few meters close would you need a missile? You see, all logic questions, but no chance.

The "true believer" will prefer to quote "experts" who will explain by small details that this plane crash couldn't happen, period. They have thousands of those little details. And if you manage to prove them scientifically wrong on all of these, the answer will be: "Umm yes, maybe, but that still doesn't explain the fact that..." and the Sisiphus rock rolls back down the hill.

The most important rule for conspiracy theorists is: Never say that something happened this or that way, always state that this or that couldn't have happened this way. Raise "questions"... the true believers will "connect the dots" themselves.

Has been done for centuries. No way to stop this. People just love conspiracies, because they make them feel "knowing" something that others don't. Whether it's the Templars, the Illuminati, the Nazis or the Bush Administration... those theories will always find followers, and in the days of paste and copy the most absurd ideas will multiply like rabbits.

That doesn't mean that REAL conspiracies don't exist. But a good conspiracy will always require one important thing: Only very few people must be involved. This reason alone would immediately disqualify 9/11.

Posted by True German Ally 2005-02-14 2:14:04 PM|| 2005-02-14 2:14:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 TGA, quite correct. For any 9/11 conspiracy theory to be correct, hundreds if not thousands of people would have to be in on the secret. It's not going to work.

I've battled the ingnobats from the beginning. The collapse of both towers was clearly due to the fire and the physics of the fire. Any knowledge about fires and buildings would illuminate that issue completely.

The Pentagon was hit by a plane, among other reasons, because the outer hole demonstrates that the plane hit just short of its target. Rookie pilots underestimate the distance above the ground when landing 7x7's. A landing just short is typical of a rookie not recalling that he is actually 40 feet or so above the ground and he must aim slightly "high" to land where he wants to. A cab-over type truck driver makes a similar error when turning, tending to turn too short. A missle would not have made the same error.

Posted by Chuck Simmins 2005-02-14 2:23:14 PM|| [http://blog.simmins.org] 2005-02-14 2:23:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Chuck, I briefly tried to battle against conspiracy theories in German forums but gave up quickly.

It's a waste of time. Reason does not work with these people. And that's all I got.

And you know the Americans never landed on the moon either...

Posted by True German Ally 2005-02-14 2:28:37 PM|| 2005-02-14 2:28:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 I only made it about halfway through the article. Swimming against the tide of half-truths, innuendo, paranoia, leaps of illogic, etc. was just too tiring for me - and I didn't do any of the actual work of refuting all this. Some of the "experts" cited by these sites prove the old adage: a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. TGA mentioned Sisyphus - I was reminded of the Hydra.

Bravo to PM for taking this on, though I hope they aren't expecting to change any minds.

Posted by Xbalanke 2005-02-14 5:14:59 PM|| 2005-02-14 5:14:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Listen, alot of those theories are obviously crap. But some of them might have merit. No, I don't think Bush or the gov't did it.

Bush may have reasons to keep things quiet, but that doesn't "prove" that it was a conspiracy by our own government. I know some here might be shocked, but the gov't doesn't tell us the truth all of the time.

Let's seperate the poison pills from the rest, and see if there's any substance in it. Here's a rebuttal to the Popular Mechanics article, though sadly these folks are still convinced that Bush & Co. had a hand in the whole thing.

Posted by Pete Stanley 2005-02-14 7:29:23 PM|| 2005-02-14 7:29:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Bravo to Popular Mechanics for dissecting and refuting these people! Its a point by point debunking of the conspiracy theorists attempts to make 9/11 into a US Government Plot instead of what it was - an evil bunch of Jihadi's trying to kill as many infidels as they can.

And thanks to PM also for pointing attention at these sites and people - nothing roaches hate more than light (attention form the rational) and bug spray (truth). Especially assholes like French author Thierry Meyssan -who continues to pump garbage that the US military attempting a coup is behind the whole 9/1 thing - and is widely published in the middle east and France. (A sample quote of what France and the Arab WOrld hears in their "news" as bing the truth: "This attack, could only be committed by United States military personnel against other U.S. military personnel.").

What the hell is wrong with the conspiracy nutbags?

Why must they contort themselves so badly, and try to delude others in their nearly insane attempts to run screaming from the facts?

Another thing to note, nearly every one of these sites was claiming it was a government conspiracy that either crashed military planes into the buildings or allowed the jet liners to hit the buildings on purpose in order to bolster Bush and allow the war to go forward in Afghanistan and eventually Iraq. And every one of those type of sitse is a "hate" site aimed at Bush and the US Military. (For example, Indymedia is one of the cited loon-fest sites).

I think the Hate-Bush crowd is mentally ill, at least this part of it. They simply cannot accept that evil people do evil things with no conspiracy required other than that of the hijackers. Its very "Old Testament" evil - in their hearts they are evil and act accordingly. Liberals and these loons have no conceptual basis forEvil in their world view - moral relativism allows for any and all actions when you push it to the extremes. And add to that the cauldron of hatred these people have for Bush and America: They cannot accept the fact that George Bush has provided solid leadership as a "War President" since 9/11 - that the office forced "W" to grow into a good president instead of a mediocre 1-termer (which was arguably where he was headed before 9/11). SO they go to extremes to produce an alternate reality in which their insanity is allowed to blossom instead of them having to face facts and live in reality where Bush is right and they are wrong.

Posted by OldSpook 2005-02-14 10:05:36 AM|| 2005-02-14 10:05:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]

Posted by OldSpook 2005-02-14 10:05:36 AM|| 2005-02-14 10:05:36 AM|| Front Page Top

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