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2012-02-03 -Short Attention Span Theater-
Family Furious After Calumet City Police Shoot, Kill Boy With Autism
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Posted by gorb 2012-02-03 10:06|| || Front Page|| [11128 views ]  Top

#1 Bottom line: Would they do it again?

Yes.

This is all too similar to so many instances of police / fed over-reaction which I think is based on the militarization of Law Enforcement. This is based on a long list of things from wanting to appear "tough on crime" by politicians to the added opportunities for union power and increases in funds available for all sorts of graft and corruption.
Posted by AlanC 2012-02-03 10:50||   2012-02-03 10:50|| Front Page Top

#2 I see nothing wrong with shooting a attacker of police, Handicapped doesn't apply(Except to whine about).
Makes good headlines.
Posted by Redneck Jim 2012-02-03 11:30||   2012-02-03 11:30|| Front Page Top

#3 RJ when the "attacker" is a known autistic who has been handled 10 times before there is no excuse for this at all.

This was pure and simple incompetence by all members of the police force involved from the chief on down. In a case like this I think that a charge of manslaughter should be considered. I hope that the parents sue the city into bankruptcy.
Posted by AlanC 2012-02-03 12:08||   2012-02-03 12:08|| Front Page Top

#4 Oh, horseshit. From the evidence provided by the family:

*He was Asperger's - NOT autistic - which is more of a personality disorder than a type of retardation
*He had a weapon in hand, and had already assaulted an officer
*This is the *tenth* time they've had officers in their home dealing with a fifteen-year-old with a history of violence
*He's been repeatedly stun-gunned in the past during those previous domestic disturbance calls

Just think of it as evolution in action, and stop wasting my time with this crying-wolf bullshit, gorb. This isn't "militarization of police", this is suicide-by-cop.
Posted by Mitch H.  2012-02-03 12:10|| http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/  2012-02-03 12:10|| Front Page Top

#5 Bottom line: Would they do it again?
Bottom line answer: He's dead, Jim. Of course they won't do it again, at least not to this alleged perp, unless they dig up the body and shoot it again.
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2012-02-03 12:29||   2012-02-03 12:29|| Front Page Top

#6 If you think Autism is a form of retardation - you don't know what your talking about. Some people do place Asperger's on the Autism Spectrum. Personally I think its a bit different but then I'm not a Doctor, didn't play one on TV, nor stayed in a Holday Inn...

Most likely the poor kid couldn't help himself - he was just in that state of mind and couldn't get out of it.

Should the police also shoot-to-kill a drunk on the 10th call too? How about a drug user? A jaywalker?

Sounds like the police knew what they were getting into. they encountered this kid before and knew he could become violent and require a stun gun. Yet the lead officer whet in armed with nothing but deadly force while his partner did have a stun gun.

I'm not saying it was or wasn't justified. I wasn't there and this story is woefully lacking in details (What kind of knife was it really? How many times was he shot?...)
Posted by CrazyFool 2012-02-03 12:52||   2012-02-03 12:52|| Front Page Top

#7 Mitch, you have no idea what you are talking about it, and you don't even know it. Asperger's is on the spectrum. The kid is not a criminal. He had a butter knife, not even a steak knife. This hits close to home because my kid is on the spectrum, and I know very well what I'm talking about. Police and society in general need to understand what this means. And even if he wasn't on the spectrum, he's obviously got issues. This is a total overreaction by the police, who should have known better, as should anyone who has a heart or looks at life more than one layer deep. There is no crying wolf here. This is a difficult situation, and I hope you figure it out without having to have a relative killed to get there. The kid is violent because his brain is fuc&ed up, not by his own choosing. But it's not a predatory violence, it's reactive /protective. What's the solution? Sometimes they can be recovered, sometimes they have to be institutionalized, which can tear up the parents. And who says the Asperger's diagnosis is perfect? It may just be a convenient place to put him to get his education tuned better. Or it could be what the parents were able to handle. Read a little deeper next time. People aren't out demonstrating because they are idiots. Trust your fellow man a bit more next time.
Posted by gorb 2012-02-03 13:09||   2012-02-03 13:09|| Front Page Top

#8 Pretty sharp butter knife if he cut the cop.
Posted by tipover 2012-02-03 13:21||   2012-02-03 13:21|| Front Page Top

#9 A no win situation for the police. Relying on my 37 yrs. in law enforcement, if you come at me with a deadly weapon (yes a table knife can be a deadly weapon)with the ability to cause great bodily injury/death, I'm using deadly force. It's easy to "armchair quarterback, but if you weren't there STFU.
Posted by OCCD 2012-02-03 13:23||   2012-02-03 13:23|| Front Page Top

#10 EVERYONE is on the Autism spectrum. Until Autism activists return to the honest evaluation of Autism effected people thay have lost credibility.
Posted by Hellfish 2012-02-03 13:23||   2012-02-03 13:23|| Front Page Top

#11 Slashed the cops arm? Let's see the pics and how many stitches he needed.

My wife deals with these kinds of kids every day and knows what they can be like. Are cops such wuzzies these days that a kid with a butter knife is a deadly threat that they have to shoot? Hell, their were 5 cops their for 1 15 yr. old and they needed to shoot him?

Way too many cops get their self image from Dirty Harry movies and have to see anything at all as a threat to their lives and an excuse to play shoot em up.
Posted by AlanC 2012-02-03 15:04||   2012-02-03 15:04|| Front Page Top

#12 Relying on my 37 yrs. in law enforcement, if you come at me with a deadly weapon (yes a table knife can be a deadly weapon)with the ability to cause great bodily injury/death, I'm using deadly force.

So you'd kill a 15 year old known-autistic kid armed with a butter knife because he lunged at you? With the intent of doing "great" bodily injury/death?

And you'd sleep well at night, too, right? Probably thinking you were doing the parents some kind of favor.

Then you'd do it all again.

I'll bet it would have been easier to subdue him or withdraw than to take the time to draw your weapon, line up, and shoot him without shooting anyone else.

In any case, the police seemed to have survived nine previous encounters with this 15 year old child.
Posted by gorb 2012-02-03 15:08||   2012-02-03 15:08|| Front Page Top

#13 I'm leaning heavily to supporting the police on this one. If you see a bladed weapon held offensively, and if the distance is under 15' (I'd prefer under 25', but that's just me), and you have a gun, you had better shoot and shoot quick.

Bladed weapons kill. They are much, much harder to fix most of the time than many gunshots in an ER, and it is difficult to gash on the torso more than 4" wide x 1" depth without hitting a major capillary or several.

Don't ever, ever pull a bladed weapon on an LEO. That is all the reason he needs to shoot you fair and square, and it doesn't matter if you are the reanimated Mother Teresa or a psychotic crank head. Or a 15 year old boy with Asperger's.

If what the police said is true, that he did manage to score a cop on the arm, then the police screwed up, and let him get too close while brandishing, or he ambushed them.

Other info gleaned from web:

Wayne Watts repeatedly called his nephew "a computer genius" who could, "take apart a computer and put it back together."

He was "very strong and liked to fight with police."

Five officers went to the home Wednesday, and found the boy in the basement, holding a kitchen knife. He said two of the officers went to the basement, where the teen "lashed out" with the knife, cutting a forearm of one officer.

"At that time, cornered and having no way to retreat back up the stairs, the officers fired one shot each, striking the (boy) twice."

The officer who was cut was treated on the scene by paramedics.

“I do believe race played an important part of this – that if this had been done in a white community, the officers would have had a different attitude about how they approached this child, knowing that this child had autism,” said David Lowery, Jr., president of the NAACP’s Chicago Far South Side Branch.
Posted by Anonymoose 2012-02-03 16:02||   2012-02-03 16:02|| Front Page Top

#14 "I do believe race played an important part of this"

Oh, ferchrissakes, give it a rest. It's either right or it's wrong - leave race out of it.
Posted by Barbara 2012-02-03 16:11||   2012-02-03 16:11|| Front Page Top

#15 Good points moose. We can't tell if it's justified or not from what was in the story. We don't know what happened so shouldn't jump to conclusions either way.

Unless of course your a professional race baiter like David Lowery, Jr., president of the NAACP’s Chicago Far South Side Branch.
Posted by CrazyFool 2012-02-03 16:33||   2012-02-03 16:33|| Front Page Top

#16 Five officers went to the home Wednesday, and found the boy in the basement, holding a kitchen knife. He said two of the officers went to the basement, where the teen "lashed out" with the knife, cutting a forearm of one officer.

There's the first problem. They should never have gone down into the basement. These kids don't see the reality of their situation. They don't get it. The kids may well think this is a game, and that he gets to play it whenever he is in the mood.

Usually, teachers get the kids to come to them. In the case of autism spectrum, the teachers have to go to the kids. Same with law enforcement. On top of that, authority figures are a problem if seen in a disciplinary or enforcement role. I'll bet the officers tried to assume the usual dominant role here, which will not work. Ask any teacher worth their salt.

If these components are missing from law enforcement training, it desperately needs to be included. It will save lives, possibly including LEOs. It may well save a LEO's psychological health, too.

These kids can be the sweetest thing in the world 99.9% of the time, and turn around and be serious buttheads for any of a zillion apparently related or unrelated reasons. They usually settle down after a while, though. And then they can be approached and dealt with. Had the police waited upstairs for half an hour, I'll bet the whole situation, both for the dead kid and for the LEO who now has to question his actions for the rest of his life.

It also sounds like the parents didn't know how to deal with him. Sometimes this can be dealt with earlier in life, but if it continues later in life and the kid is too big to handle, they need different arrangements. They were probably hoping it was a phase, but it sounds like he needed to be institutionalized.
Posted by gorb 2012-02-03 16:43||   2012-02-03 16:43|| Front Page Top

#17 I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that families in Calumet City don't have access to good autism therapies that can help a kid with Aspergers function in society. IIRC, Calumet City is not a wealthy community. If the kid had lived in Oak Park or Evanston, his family might have had more resources for therapy. So while I won't go so far as to say this is a racial issue, economic factors do matter.

Also, how many police depts have "dealing with kids with neurological disorders" in their training programs?

Our friend "Billy" is 16, 6 feet tall and weighs 185 lbs. He is marginally verbal, and lower functioning. He reacts to stress by running. The police dept in his small town were open to a training session from an autism therapy provider in our county. They also gave him a GPS bracelet, so that every time "Billy" barges out of the house and starts running, they can find him, and can handle him when they catch up to him.

We have three kids on the Autism spectrum, one of whom tends to go to hyper-defensive mode. When he was in 5th grade, we had the school liaison officer talk to him in words of one syllable about the consequences of acting out. We reinforced this with "social story" protocols. The kid spent lots of time in the Vice-principal's office in 6th grade, but made real progress, and is now in high school and on the honor roll. Emotionally he's 13, but he's grown very much.

Our eldest was being aspergery and bopping around talking to himself while on break at the community college, and somebody called the campus cops. The campus cop looked at our son and said, "I know that guy. He sounds weird, but he's harmless. Don't worry about it."

I hope that this event causes police depts to review their strategies for dealing with kids. I can appreciate Moose's and OCCD's positions; but I know that some cops are willing to be pro-active and learn more about dealing with kids like this.
Posted by mom 2012-02-03 17:10||   2012-02-03 17:10|| Front Page Top

#18 EVERYONE is on the Autism spectrum. Until Autism activists return to the honest evaluation of Autism effected people thay have lost credibility.

Which activists? Who says that everybody is on the autism spectrum? Document your assertions please.
Posted by mom 2012-02-03 17:20||   2012-02-03 17:20|| Front Page Top

#19 Wasn't there.
Posted by swksvolFF 2012-02-03 17:47||   2012-02-03 17:47|| Front Page Top

#20 Good points Gorb. My kids are both really good kids - not much problems at all. Except if they get all wrapped around the axle about something - and it could be just about anything. Then they can be completely unreasonable. And I mean completely - worse then a leftie who's presented with a truth...

There's certain criteria which must be met to be diagnosed - and it's hard at an early age when intervention is most effective. With our oldest our pediatrician referred us to the children's hospital for evaluation and even they gave us a "we can't absolutely diagnose it at his age but it looks like he might...".

Early diagnosis (or even a 'looks like') and intervention is the key (sometimes intensive intervention). In our case with my oldest it was a lot to do with his mother and being in a daily program early. He's now usually pretty good - but does have his moments. Oh Yes he has his moments....
Posted by CrazyFool 2012-02-03 18:21||   2012-02-03 18:21|| Front Page Top

#21 Along that note - if you are interested in a good 'autism' move see Temple Grandin. Its a very good movie and I recommend it.
Posted by CrazyFool 2012-02-03 18:30||   2012-02-03 18:30|| Front Page Top

#22 And I mean completely - worse then a leftie who's presented with a truth...

Let's not get carried away here, but I know what you mean. ;-)
Posted by gorb 2012-02-03 19:35||   2012-02-03 19:35|| Front Page Top

#23 Well...all of the emotional rhetoric aside, his problems are over. Personally I think our society has become too soft and we expend way too much effort on the most marginal our members.

Wire-head and warehouse them, or recycle them once it has been determined they will never be productive or contributing to society. Harsh? Yes. Pragmatic? Definitely.
Posted by Secret Asian Man 2012-02-03 19:58||   2012-02-03 19:58|| Front Page Top

#24 Those involved will live with this the rest of their lives. Replayed over and over again. It is over for the boy. The looks the police get will be difficult to deal with. Things will go wrong. Some of the situations they must deal with every day does take a toll. Difficult job that is just not for everyone. Do your job and get home is all you can do every day, even off days.
Posted by Dale 2012-02-03 20:47||   2012-02-03 20:47|| Front Page Top

#25 Wire-head and warehouse them, or recycle them once it has been determined they will never be productive or contributing to society. Harsh? Yes. Pragmatic? Definitely.

Nazis thought the same thing.
Posted by gorb 2012-02-03 21:11||   2012-02-03 21:11|| Front Page Top

#26 Secret Asian: It costs the taxpayers a helluva lot more to waste a life in an institution than it does to come alongside and make them productive members of the community. My kids are working and paying taxes. Not full time, and not a lot yet, but they're on their way.

I'm going to assume that you had a rotten day at work and your beer is warm and flat, so you're in a bad mood; and that under normal circumstances you would not have posted a comment that Hitler would applaud.
Posted by mom 2012-02-03 22:09||   2012-02-03 22:09|| Front Page Top

#27 To reach and cut the officer, Stephon must have been within melee range at least. Cut-off from the stairs, just got cut by a subject obviously violent and moving in? The Cop may have pulled his gun and fired before he was aware. Subconcious reaction to immediate danger tends to over-ride judgement sometimes.

I personally don't blame Police for this one. To me anyway it seems they were slowly approaching Stephon to calm him down when the Lash-Out happened.

10 times calling the police seems alot. You can say that they knew, which yeah they did. But the police also dodged shooting him ten-times. You'd think after the first 5 the family would get their own Taser instead of relying on the police. I mean why keep risking it time and again and again?

And I'm not saying the family MEANT this to happen, it's horrible to think of anybody this way. But there's is like a .00001% chance the family couldn't deal with it anymore and sought just this outcome for a city-settlement. Horrible to think about, but the possibility remains.
Posted by Charles 2012-02-03 22:42||   2012-02-03 22:42|| Front Page Top

#28 have they necessitated calling the cops 10 times? Are they wielding weapons, however banal they might seem?

I have no autistic or asperger's kids, so I can't say boo from a personal level. I can address the societal level as I see it. This is similar to kids with a peanut allergy: all kids must cease eating peanut butter or peanut products at school due to the occasional kid (usually a very nice kid, of course) who has an unique allergy. All lives as usual stop, society changes for that unique individual. We can all say and feel how awful should that child suffer a death by anaphylactic shock! However, there has always been incidents, however tragic, when society, by and large moved on, and some...did not.

You wield a weapon (however "harmless") at family, public, and law enforcement,you risk this end. If they have been called 10 times - obviously he's out of control or teh family would've handled it. To second-guess after an officer has suffered a cut is lame IMHO. Your personal experiences and defensive attitudes seem to be in place first. If I'm a cop, called AGAIN and AGAIN to a semi-dangerous (or why would police be called?) situation, and my fellow officer got cut? I'm not gonna try to "wing him". If tasers were not the operative measures (were they used before and unable to disable?) then I shoot to stop

Just My NSHO
Posted by Frank G 2012-02-03 22:48||   2012-02-03 22:48|| Front Page Top

#29 "We tried to do everything we could to keep him from being a victim, as he was an offender. He chose to be an offender," Gilmore said.

The problem is a toxic combination of general ignorance (that many have of these problems because they don't have to deal with them) and the choices that an individual with (similar ignorance) made as far as getting his officers trained up on these kinds of things.

Low blood sugar. Stroke. Autism spectrum. All of these conditions can lead to behavior that an officer that hasn't been trained can take in the wrong way and end up killing the person with the problem. The autistic didn't choose the situation any more than the hypoglycemic or the stroke victim. They're innocent.

With proper training, these deaths are mostly preventable, especially with forewarning.

Perhaps police need to spend some time in one of these institutions to understand the metamorphosis some folks like autistics and other mental problems have to deal with. After they come out of it they'll say they were sorry for what happened, and they'll wish they weren't that way. They choose nothing here. It is bestowed upon them.

One way to take the measure of a society is how it treats and accomodates these innocents. And elderly.

Training was lacking here. Training the chief should have been aware of, taken, and offered to his police force.
Posted by gorb 2012-02-03 23:53||   2012-02-03 23:53|| Front Page Top

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