Article

2005-01-19 Israel-Palestine

Israel to give Abbas limited time to fight militants

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Posted by Fred 2005-01-19 00:00:00|| || Front Page|| [11132 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Sharon needs to be careful about giving ultimatums to Abbas at this point in time. Abbas, for all his warts, is Israel's best hope for peace. Abbas resigned from Arafat's cabinet because he did not want to be associated with all the corruption in Arafat's "house." Just because Arafat is pushing up daisies, it doesn't mean all his thug pals are gone. If Abbas tried to come down hard on Palestinian terrorist groups, many of whom are Arafat's associates, he will be killed in short order. Then who'd come up to the plate for the Palestinians? I think Sharon needs to get the wall completed asap and get the Gaza settlers moved out real fast. Sharon is in a much better position to limit the damage to his people from terrorist groups than Abbas is right now.

Posted by 2xstandard 2005-01-19 1:22:07 AM|| 2005-01-19 1:22:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Heh, I love listening / reading optimists. Peace? Between Israel and the Paleos? Ever? Really? Well, good on ya - optimism is good stuff, if it can't kill you - and I am assuming you're not in Israel...

I refer you to my comment #5 on this article for the opposite end of the spectrum.

BTW, Abbas is still a Holocaust-denier - within the last 2-3 months - no I don't have a link for you because I was not surprised in the least, so didn't bookmark it. And one other point, since 1947 there has never been any evidence, none whatsoever, to support any level of optimism. So you're the determined sort - cool. Good luck.

IMHO: Build the Fence. That's the only thing that has worked in any way, short of tanks, bullets, and HellFire missiles. ;-)

Posted by .com 2005-01-19 1:39:11 AM|| 2005-01-19 1:39:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 On 3/19/03, the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), while expressing skepticism about whether a Palestinian prime minister will hold any real authority, said today's appointment of Abu Mazen to the newly created post "offers hope" of greater reform within the Palestinian Authority.
http://www.adl.org/presrele/islme%5F62/4244%5F62.asp

Abbas is as good as it gets. Abbas wrote his dissertation such as it was 20 years ago while he was studying at Moscow. You want to hold him to an obvious propoganda piece written for his patrons, go ahead, .com. But the ADL obviously considered the situation and decided Abbas's dissertion wasn't worth their worry and that he held promise. And btw, Sharon wasn't a knight in shining armor at various stages of his career either. If the Israelis think there's a better guy than Abbas waiting in the wings, then by all means they should force Abbas's hand and get him assassinated by the PLO. But if they don't see a white knight waiting, they should work with Abbas. If the Dims win the WH in 2008, ( the American voter is known to like change)the change may not be in Israel's favor as it is now. I think it behooves Israel to try to make things work with Abbas the next 4 years. Who knows what lies ahead?

Posted by 2xstandard 2005-01-19 2:39:05 AM|| 2005-01-19 2:39:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 2xstandard: Who knows what lies ahead?

Abbas days are numbered and counting. With about 75% of the adults and nearly 100% of indoctrinated children wanting the jews into sea thingy, the chances for peace are close to 1Bill. to 1 for the next couple of generations. It's fooked up.

Posted by Sobiesky 2005-01-19 3:01:59 AM|| 2005-01-19 3:01:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Sobiesky, I hope you are wrong. I hope Abbas is not murdered.

Israel cannot be viewed as the pariah by the world for much longer. Its only ally is the USA and even that can change with whomever occupies the Oval office. Also, Israel needs water and energy and a steady infusion of immigrant population. If Israel is not a pleasant place to live - a wall keeps people out and traps people in as well - what Jews will want to immigrate to Israel? The current birth rate is too low to sustain it long term. What countries will sell Israel fuel in the future, if it continues to have problems with the Palestinians? Russia? Iran? Saudi Arabia? In the next 20 years, the big players on the world's stage will be China and India - neither have enough oil for themselves- they will be vying for oil from Iran and Saudi Arbia - who do you think will get first dibs on those countries' resources?

It's imperative for Israel to make peace with the Palestinians to win acceptance by other countries so Israel can trade its goods and buy others' resources. America's largesse may be decreased in the future. We've run up a huge deficit the past 3 years and it's getting worse as we speak. Israel cannot become independent if it's shunned by the nations around it, not only the ME countries but the EU countries as well. And Europe is becoming more Islamitized with each generation. Unfortunately Arafat has successfully made the Palestinian issue an albatross for Israel in the world's eyes. No country can survive in today's globalized world living behind a fence and moat.

Posted by 2xstandard 2005-01-19 3:47:38 AM|| 2005-01-19 3:47:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 #5
Why don't you start by hoping for something easy, like repealing the second law of Thermodynamics?

Posted by gromgorru 2005-01-19 6:59:42 AM|| 2005-01-19 6:59:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Why would the world opinion about Israel change? The nation is Jewish, and antisemitism hasn't been this bad or this open since the 1930s. World dislike of Israel is not based on anything Israel does or does not do -- but rather on its simple existence. This will not change until the Arab countries democratize and/or decisively lose the Terror War, and their people turn their energies to domestic issues. Remember, the Arab world has fought and propagandized against the Jews and the Jewish state since, again, the 1930s -- back when it was the Jews who were called "Palestinian." The local Arabs did not develop a national identity until just about the time of the Six Day War, and attained international prominence as a result of the Sixty-Eighters romanticizing fellow terrorists. Truth to tell, peace with the Palestinians will follow on ending world support for their use of the terror weapon, not the other way around.

The population issue was addressed in an article posted yesterday, and it turns out to be considerably more hyped than real (the birthrate of the non-Western Jews parallels that of the Arabs among whom they'd lived for 2500 years, thus they make up an increasing percentage of the Jewish Israeli population, and a decreasingly Euro-style culture); and with the increasing length of the Separation Fence terror incidents have dropped dramatically, which is why the Palestinians have gone back to lobbing rockets in the general direction of Israeli communities. The U.S. Federal deficit is actually dropping*. Israel is building closer commercial and military ties with India, as well as (quietly) with some of the less rabid Muslim countries like Morocco. Turkey goes back and forth -- I believe the secular Turkish military wants stronger ties, but the religious government is uncomfortable. Israeli technical products are desired worldwide, with companies like Intel and IBM opening research and manufacturing facilities there, and Israeli anti-terrorism expertise is in high demand with governments and corporations around the world.

Abbas, on the other hand, speaks of peace only because he believes the PLO goal of eradicating Israel can be accomplished using the failed weapon of demographics. However, nobody can control the terrorists amongst the Paleo population (and they have support of at least 50% of the people there) so long as the call to jihad is made daily on television, in the classrooms, in the street names and wall posters recalling successful suiciders, and in the summer training camps run by all factions including the PLO, of which Abbas is the titular head. Holocaust denier or no, Abbas has the aim of eradicating Israel firmly before his eyes: only his preferred method differs from that of Arafat.

*from a Wall Street Journal article last November:
Fiscal 2004 ended with a federal deficit of $413 billion, well under the Office of Management and Budget's February projection of $521 billion. In October, the 12-month deficit came in under $400 billion, and in the (admittedly brief) three months ending in October the 12-month trend was heading toward $310 billion.

Douglas Holtz-Eakin of the Congressional Budget Office told us that "Economic growth, which we anticipate to be pretty robust, leads to reductions in the deficit from what was this year $413 billion, or 3.5% of GDP. And if you go forward, you're down to about three [percent of GDP] on the baseline next year, and about 2.5 or 2.6 the year after that." In historic terms, that's getting close to normal since the deficit has averaged a bit above 2% of GDP for the entire postwar period. "So I think it is the case that business-as-usual with tight restraint on spending will bring the deficit down over the near term to levels that we've seen," Mr. Holtz-Eakin adds. And all with no tax increase required.

As for the national debt, that's also not a cause for alarm. ...[O]verall federal debt as a share of GDP is estimated to be below 40% in 2005, still well below the recent peak of 49.4% in 1993. That is easily manageable by historic standards, and in fact should begin to decline again if the economy keeps growing and annual deficits begin to shrink.

Posted by trailing wife 2005-01-19 7:26:29 AM|| 2005-01-19 7:26:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 A more recent article on the budget deficit came out recently in the National Review Online. Tax collections increased 4.4% more than federal spending, and the deficit continues to drop.

Posted by trailing wife 2005-01-19 7:35:51 AM|| 2005-01-19 7:35:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 But I can also write brief posts. See? ;-)

Posted by trailing wife 2005-01-19 7:53:23 AM|| 2005-01-19 7:53:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Abbas, for all his warts, is Israel's best hope for peace.

If there's any truth to this, then the Israelis aren't in any better position than they were when Arafart was still alive.

..a wall keeps people out and traps people in as well..

Please. The only people that applies to are the Paleos, and quite frankly, there's nothing left in the fuel tank with which to make the sympathy meter budge.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2005-01-19 11:35:11 AM|| 2005-01-19 11:35:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 1. all israel has promised is to refrain from attacks while giving Abbas a chance, NOT to stop building the wall. There is NO, I repeat NO, contradiction between giving Abbas a chance and building the wall. Au contraire, building the wall HELPS give Abbas a chance. By reducing terr acts, it reduces the need for Israel to launch attacks, which WOULD undermine Abbas. Of course Abbas cant SAY that. Everyone is too much taken up by the loony left and the Euro press which are antiwall. You really need to follow the Israeli left, where a desire to reach out to Abbas is joined by support for the wall - at most they would modify some aspects of the route.

2. Ive seen NOTHING indicating Abbas has denied the Holocaust since a PHd thesis he wrote over 25 years ago. Im dubious.

3. Abbas is a better possibility than Arafat, but could well be a failure, for a great many reasons. TRUST BUT VERIFY, as a great man once said.

4. There are some Pals who are willing to live in peace with Israel, according to polls. Numbers are debatable. Enough who support terrorism to justify the charecterization of Pal society as loony. Enough who want to change to justify some hope.

5. The discussion of overwhelming Israel by numbers is what the Pals do IF Israel doesnt make a deal and/or disengage. They accept annexation, and VOTE their way to power. Their numbers are such that if the territories were annexed TODAY they would totally disrupt the Israeli political system - and their numbers are growing, if not as fast as previously thought.

6. Poll the other day said most Pals in the territories willing to give up 'right of return" - a good sign.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2005-01-19 11:51:07 AM|| 2005-01-19 11:51:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 LH - good news, but polls can, as we know, be manipulated. Right of return = eternal war

Posted by Frank G 2005-01-19 12:00:40 PM|| 2005-01-19 12:00:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Poll the other day said most Pals in the territories willing to give up 'right of return"..

Not a quibble with the poster, but I always cringe when I hear this "right of return" bullshit. These guys can't give up a "right" that they never had.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2005-01-19 12:43:32 PM|| 2005-01-19 12:43:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 2. Ive seen NOTHING indicating Abbas has denied the Holocaust since a PHd thesis he wrote over 25 years ago. Im dubious.

I bet you could find more Israelis killed by his command than remarks he's made about the reality of the Holocaust.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2005-01-19 12:57:12 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-01-19 12:57:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 said in the voice of Robocop-

"You have 30 seconds to comply."

Posted by Mark E. 2005-01-19 1:47:02 PM|| 2005-01-19 1:47:02 PM|| Front Page Top

02:34 trow the jews in the mediteranean sea
02:34 trow the jews in the mediteranean sea
02:30 languages
00:47 Slotle Sleager5568
00:47 Slotle Sleager5568
00:03 trailing wife
00:01 Cyber Sarge
23:58 enog
23:55 CrazyFool
23:55 98zulu
23:50 CrazyFool
23:48 enog
23:42 trailing wife
23:38 2b
23:21 Atomic Conspiracy
23:07 Bomb-a-rama
23:04 .com
23:03 Atomic Conspiracy
22:52 Anonymoose
22:51 Anonymoose
22:43 3dc
22:42 Al Bundy
22:42 James
22:42 Atomic Conspiracy