Article

2005-01-15 Britain

UK Tony Caves to Chirac, Schroder Over China Arms Sales

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Posted by Captain America 2005-01-15 9:41:25 PM|| || Front Page|| [11131 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 What the hell are they trying to do?

It's time once more to put forth my call for restoring the wetlands of Le Marais.

Posted by Dishman 2005-01-15 1:09:28 AM|| 2005-01-15 1:09:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 TGA - Can you enlighten us a bit about Germany's stance regards China arms sales?

Posted by .com 2005-01-15 1:22:10 AM|| 2005-01-15 1:22:10 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 If the EU wants to outfit China with modern stuff, then we should equip Japan and Taiwan with comparable items.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2005-01-15 1:31:08 AM|| 2005-01-15 1:31:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 I have zero doubt that whatever they are supplied we will face, militarily, someday. And perhaps sooner than any of us imagine. So, I think it matters, a lot, what our erstwhile allies are interested / willing to sell them.

This issue alone, in light of the above, is grounds for a serious trans-Atlantic split, IMHO.

Posted by .com 2005-01-15 1:38:32 AM|| 2005-01-15 1:38:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Schroeder's December '03 trip to China signaled a strong interest in removing the ban on arms sales. Schroeder and Chirac favored lifting the ban and, until recently, the UK and a few Eastern European "New Europe" countries argued against lifting it.

Now comes Tony and Straw advocating lifting the ban before the UK presidency during the second half of '05. Apparently, Chirac and Schroeder were quite persuasive.

Posted by Captain America 2005-01-15 2:05:56 AM|| 2005-01-15 2:05:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Even Israel was trying to sell some important stuff to the ChiComs until the US stepped in. But, disappointing as it is, the EU showed that they could sell their souls by dealing with Saddam during the so-called sanctions. Blair jumping on the bandwagon hurts though, really hurts.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2005-01-15 2:09:34 AM|| 2005-01-15 2:09:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Severely downgrade trade relations with Germany and France. Let them peddle their cars and cosmetics in China. And, by the way, bring all the troops home from Germany NOW.

Posted by ed 2005-01-15 3:02:40 AM|| 2005-01-15 3:02:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 If they do it, I'd say it's time to dissolve NATO.

Posted by Dishman 2005-01-15 3:45:52 AM|| 2005-01-15 3:45:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 If they do it, I'd say we need our troops in Europe more than ever.

China's the Germany of the 21st Century. We will probably have a hot war with them at some point.

The Europeans are whores. Always have been. This is not news. It's a big part of why most of our ancestors left.

What we should pull out of is WTO. We need a new trading regime that includes and favors our allies not our enemies. China has a trade surplus only with the US. They will pay the Europeans for the weapons they will use on us with the dollars you saved at Wal-Mart. Admitting China to the WYO was a mistake.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-01-15 8:42:49 AM|| 2005-01-15 8:42:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Annoying the US and Japan peculiar move. I expect Japan might make pretty good combat robots.

Posted by Shipman 2005-01-15 9:26:26 AM|| 2005-01-15 9:26:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 What will it take for this country to start focusing on Asia first?

Posted by lex 2005-01-15 3:18:18 PM|| 2005-01-15 3:18:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 A grab for Taiwan or South Korea might do it.

Posted by Tom 2005-01-15 3:44:43 PM|| 2005-01-15 3:44:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Tom, please hold your comments till he-who-shall-not-be-named has commented so that they may be characterized as taunting and trolling.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-01-15 3:49:34 PM|| 2005-01-15 3:49:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 me too? Ima stalker too! LOL

Posted by Frank G 2005-01-15 4:08:17 PM|| 2005-01-15 4:08:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Sorry, just trying to build up some more non-Arisified thread postings just in case he demands another list.

Posted by Tom 2005-01-15 4:18:52 PM|| 2005-01-15 4:18:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Frank, you comment everywhere, unlike Tom who has a bot that scans for the name of he-who-shall-not-be-named with twice the frequency of his own.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-01-15 4:25:57 PM|| 2005-01-15 4:25:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 LOL - so it's OK due to the variety and indiscrimination in my droppings? I'm OK with that :-)

Posted by Frank G 2005-01-15 4:47:09 PM|| 2005-01-15 4:47:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Before we dump on the Brits, we should all take a deep breath and remember the steady flow of technology and secrets from the US to China that occurred from 1993 through 2000. Whether from cupidity, stupidity, or just plain treason there was a flood of weapons related technology released to China on the Clintons' watch. Remember Bernie Schwartz and Loral helping the Chinese figure out how to make their ICBMs go further and hit what they were aiming at. Just because the current administration has a clear view of the world doesn't mean that it has always been so.

Posted by RWV 2005-01-15 5:13:09 PM|| 2005-01-15 5:13:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 And therefor everybody gets an 8 year bye on being stupid?

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-01-15 5:17:06 PM|| 2005-01-15 5:17:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 No, but we shouldn't be particularly self-righteous about it.

Posted by RWV 2005-01-15 5:20:13 PM|| 2005-01-15 5:20:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Self-righteous? I hadn't notice he-who-shall-not-be-named post to this thread yet.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2005-01-15 5:35:17 PM|| 2005-01-15 5:35:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Besides, we should encourage the sale of French technology. Their stuff only works in the showroom. The French believe in the razor blade theory - the initial cost is low, but the cost of maintenance, spares, etc. increases exponentially. If the Chinese try to go to war with French weapons, they will probably wind up with the same win-loss percentage as the French. I'd rather fight a China equipped with French weapons that don't work than one equipped with Russian weapons that do.

Posted by RWV 2005-01-15 5:35:32 PM|| 2005-01-15 5:35:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 'caved in' and democratic process dont fit in the same sentence .

good thoughts RWV - and if i was gonna reverse engineer things , I'd prolly poke my head in the direcion of China for advice .. The West merrily gives away free advice by default or by accident far tooo merrily for my liking , but hey , we live in a democracy , and thats what its all about . Freedom to do what ya want with the time thats been given to ya :P

Posted by MacNails 2005-01-15 5:40:57 PM|| 2005-01-15 5:40:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 ooh and admin , perfect piccy of da man :P

Posted by MacNails 2005-01-15 5:41:52 PM|| 2005-01-15 5:41:52 PM|| Front Page Top

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