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2024-07-10 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia
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Dr. Evgeniya Makeeva from Dagestan: Niqab hides the fact that the husband beats his wife
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Direct Translation via Google Translate. Edited.
by Marina Akhmedova
| People are returning [from Syria] with radical views - "a woman must wear a niqab." It turns out that they are integrating us into their society, and not we are integrating them. |
[REGNUM] At the end of June, a patient came to the private clinic "Altermed" in Khasavyurt complaining of acute abdominal pain. The reception desk contacted the head doctor Evgenia Makeeva, she had a full schedule, but upon hearing that the patient's acute pain had been going on for three days, the doctor dropped everything and came down. The patient was wearing a niqab. Makeeva asked her to take off the niqab to examine the woman, but was refused.
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An altercation ensued, and soon people started writing about the incident en masse in Dagestani publics and chats. The doctor was not just threatened – they promised to destroy her. The radicals contacted the clinic management – ??and they apologized.
In turn, the head of Dagestan, Sergei Melikov, guaranteed Makeeva’s safety.
Evgeniya Makeeva spoke with the editor-in-chief of the Regnum news agency, Marina Akhmedova, about the scandal in the hospital, the processes taking place in Dagestani society, and her future plans .
Marina Akhmedova: Evgenia, how did you end up in Dagestan?
Evgeniya Makeeva: First of all, I would like to thank you for the support you give me. Unfortunately, in central Russia, few people know about what is happening in the North Caucasus. Because of this, it is becoming increasingly difficult to work there.
I am a person with nomad syndrome. I have lived and worked in so many places! I have been to both Americas and Western Europe. And when I was offered a position in Dagestan, I happily accepted. I have always been interested in complex regions.
Marina Akhmedova: To what extent did your ideas about Dagestan coincide with reality?
Evgeniya Makeeva: It is difficult to work anywhere in Dagestan, not only in medicine. The very fact that you are a woman (especially a European one) already obliges you to do a lot. And the situations I found myself in, when a patient needs help, but she refuses to show you something, happen regularly.
Marina Akhmedova: At a minimum, you should see the skin and face.
Evgeniya Makeeva: As a doctor, I have to assess the general condition of a person. I need to understand what kind of pain he came with. After all, I treat not only the thyroid gland. When a patient comes to see me, I ask: "How are you, how are you feeling?" And to do this, I need to look the person in the face to see his emotions.
Marina Akhmedova: That patient categorically refused to show you her face?
Evgeniya Makeeva: I think this scandal occurred due to a misinterpretation of my words and the language barrier.
This is how it happened: I asked a patient to take off her niqab so I could examine her. She asked, "Is this a matter of principle?" I was taken aback by this question. I said, "Of course, it is a matter of principle." That's where it all started. I repeat, this is not the first incident that I personally and other doctors in Khasavyurt have encountered. This is a common problem.
Marina Akhmedova: It turns out that patients come to a secular medical institution for help, but are not ready to obey basic rules?
Evgeniya Makeeva: In Khasavyurt, all surgeons and anesthesiologists are men. I know for sure that in the perinatal center, where women give birth, all the anesthesiologists are men.
Marina Akhmedova: Do women really give birth while wearing a niqab?
Evgeniya Makeeva: I didn't ask my colleagues how they act in this case. But I know that there are many situations when a woman is left without medical care for such reasons. Moreover, on the same day as my incident, another scandal occurred. The husband brought his wife to the hospital with purulent mastitis: a huge abscess, fever, intoxication. But because the girl was to be operated on by a male surgeon, he took her out of the clinic.
If this happened in my clinic, the surgeon would definitely call me as the head doctor, I would fight with this man, proving why his wife absolutely needs medical care. Most often, I encounter misunderstanding and aggression towards me: "Oh, such and such, she doesn't want to understand our culture." In the case of this woman with an abscess, it wasn't even about the niqab - her husband didn't allow the surgeon to touch her at all.
Marina Akhmedova: I'm afraid to imagine what would happen if a male doctor asked a patient to undress and show her breasts.
Evgeniya Makeeva: We face this every day. This is a big problem in all of Dagestan, especially in the north of the republic. It concerns not only health care. Education suffers from this. Children from such families do not attend singing and drawing lessons. Many schools do not even hold matinees, because music is increasingly banned in the region.
Marina Akhmedova: It turns out that childhood is generally prohibited.
Evgeniya Makeeva: It is forbidden. Moreover, this is an environment where you are already obliged to do many things in childhood. Girls suffer especially, because there is a complete patriarchy there. Everyone obeys the will of a man. Whatever he says, that is what they do, it is basically impossible to disobey him. Children do not have the right to self-expression, they are not integrated into Russian society. They are stewed in their own cauldron, where they are stuffed with incomprehensible information and ideas about the world.
Marina Akhmedova: As far as I know, this has never happened in Dagestan. Is this a new phenomenon of the last ten years?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Probably, yes. I talk to Dagestanis who live in their own unchanging world – even their neighbors haven’t changed in 20 years. When I tell them about scandals in hospitals and schools, their first reaction is: “Stop it, we haven’t had anything like this for a long time.” And when it’s made public in the media, they say: “We’re so surprised. We live here and don’t understand how global this problem is.”
This may be due to the fact that a program for the return of compatriots from Syria has now begun. People are being returned home and are being integrated into Russian society. People are returning with radical views - "a woman must wear a niqab." It turns out that they are integrating us into their society, and not we are integrating them. We live among them, and not they live among us.
When people from Syria return home, they organize separate communities with prayer houses. They interpret Islam in their own way and impose it on us through aggression.
Marina Akhmedova: It seems to me that the question the patient asked you (“Is this a matter of principle?”) is already aggressive. If she needs help, but must follow certain religious rules, she could say: “Can I please stay in the niqab.”
Evgeniya Makeeva: These people do not want to compromise in any way - not in the hospital, not in school, not in the markets. They are imposing on us an alien culture, which has never existed in Dagestan or Russia before.
Marina Akhmedova: What are the consequences of purulent mastitis for a person if it is not treated?
Evgeniya Makeeva: You can die from it. I want to emphasize: if a patient in a situation where emergency surgical intervention is needed is not given timely medical care, it can cost him his life.
Marina Akhmedova: Do these women understand that they could die if they do not refuse to comply with religious requirements at some point?
Evgeniya Makeeva: These are not religious demands. In Dagestan, a social unit has formed that lives outside of true Islamic tenets and outside of Russian legislation.
Marina Akhmedova: So the husband takes his wife home and it is completely unknown what happens to her?
Evgeniya Makeeva: We are trying to track such episodes, to find out whether there is a team of female doctors in the hospitals of Makhachkala or Grozny who can provide her with the necessary assistance. It is difficult. There are problems in the healthcare sector in Dagestan. Here, as throughout Russia, there is serious tension with staff and personnel.
Marina Akhmedova: And if a patient comes to see a gynecologist? She sits on the chair without taking off her niqab, and shows him everything else? I don't understand this hypocrisy.
Evgeniya Makeeva: The same goes for dentistry. I don’t understand how she would go to the doctor with a toothache. In my case, there was a very important moment. The patient came to me complaining of stomach pain. And she said that she was advised: “Go to Makeeva, because she will sort everything out.” And at that time, the only endoscopist in our clinic was a man. The man had to use an endoscope through the oral cavity to see what was happening with the esophagus and stomach.
Marina Akhmedova: What happened to this patient? Did she just leave?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Yes, and she left very calmly. In my opinion, she didn't even look like an emergency patient.
Marina Akhmedova: Do you think this could have been just a provocation?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Having lived in Khasavyurt for over a year and fully understanding the attitude of a certain group of people towards me, I expected something like this. I was even afraid of extreme measures, because they always act very aggressively.
Marina Akhmedova: Were you afraid of physical violence?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Yes.
Marina Akhmedova: Why do you need all this? Why do you live there?
Evgeniya Makeeva: I am not looking for easy ways. I am needed there as a doctor and as a person. I have a very large team there, which I can no longer abandon. Some doctors came to work at the clinic during my time as manager. In a word, I have obligations to both patients and colleagues. I am very integrated into this society, literally up to my ears.
Marina Akhmedova: When you talk about Dagestan, your words convey love for the republic.
Evgeniya Makeeva: I love this people very much, I feel very comfortable there. Not all of Dagestan is like this group of people. Look how many heroes this republic has given us, who are now fighting for us in the SVO. There is simply a certain cell that is stirring up society and not letting us live in peace. And, unfortunately, it is growing like a cancerous tumor.
Marina Akhmedova: This cell just committed a terrorist attack and threatened you with physical violence.
Evgeniya Makeeva: The incident itself happened in the morning, and the scandal was gaining momentum throughout the day. When they started calling us at the clinic with threats, I thought: "What will happen next? It's almost night. And I have a small child there."
Marina Akhmedova: Didn’t you ever think about packing your bags and leaving for Moscow?
Evgeniya Makeeva: No. Because all my friends, colleagues and patients immediately took my side. They are my family. My phone was ringing off the hook with calls of support. Moreover, many even came to my home without warning. These are Dagestanis, my compatriots.
Marina Akhmedova: Were you scared when the first threats came?
Evgeniya Makeeva: I wasn't afraid for myself. I was only afraid for the child. All this negativity started an hour after the patient left the clinic. Social networks picked it up, the negativity grew. They called me, forwarded me publications. The same thing happened with the senior management of the clinic and with other employees. Then all of Khasavyurt found out about it, then all of Dagestan, and now all of Russia knows about it.
Marina Akhmedova: And yet, how could you not be scared if the day before there was a monstrous terrorist attack, when a priest was killed right in the church.
Evgeniya Makeeva: There was no fear. My task was to divert attention from the medical institution and the family as quickly as possible in order to protect everyone around. Who should I be afraid of? Our police services work very well in the city. It is in Khasavyurt that I feel safe. And I don’t know what might happen outside the city.
Marina Akhmedova: You said that you feel comfortable living in Khasavyurt itself. How did you manage to integrate into a city where mostly people of other nationalities and religions live?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Since I had a certain migrant experience, I quickly understand the local culture and quickly integrate into society. At the same time, I live autonomously, with my own rules, and do not interfere with anyone. Yes, as in all religious regions, in Dagestan they try to absorb you. You come with your own cultural facet, which needs to be erased and given your own. But there is nothing terrible about this.
Marina Akhmedova: How do you manage to be friends with Dagestanis, and not just coexist with them?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Easy. The same people live there as you and me. They are the same citizens of our country. Sometimes they also face danger, just like us. You mentioned the terrorist attacks in Derbent and Makhachkala. This attack was against the Dagestani people and against the integrity of Russia, and not specifically against Evgeniya Sergeyevna Makeeva.
Marina Akhmedova: You yourself said that this society is trying to erase your cultural facet. How do you manage to prevent this?
Evgeniya Makeeva: I am a person who always defends personal boundaries. I lead a large team. Believe me, my character is fine.
Marina Akhmedova: Do you also manage men?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Yes.
Marina Akhmedova: Still, in the Dagestani tradition, men are not ready to submit to women.
Evgeniya Makeeva: I am not looking for subordinates, I am looking for employees. I have male employees, I do not have male subordinates. I have not had problems with misunderstanding men at work. Yes, they are a little egocentric, they love to defend their point of view, so that the last word is always theirs. But in general, you need to talk to any Caucasian men like you would to difficult teenagers. That's the only way.
Marina Akhmedova: What common ground do you manage to find with Dagestani women?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Fashion, life, family, work. Everything is like in Moscow. The only thing is that I don't do household chores and don't ask what kind of flour they buy to make khinkali.
Marina Akhmedova: Let's get back to the scandal. Do you think that this woman could have come to provoke you, and not because she needed help?
Evgeniya Makeeva: I don't want to think so. I would be very upset if my place of work was used for this. For me, work is sacred. I can't say that I'm a workaholic, I'm also a lazy person, but I care about my work. I give 70% to work and 30% to my family.
By the way, there was one happy moment in this whole situation for me. When they started hounding me, there was not a single comment about me being a bad doctor. On the contrary, there were words of support addressed to me, for example: “I, my sister, my daughter and my mother went to her. They were dressed this way and that. We know her. She helped us.” This was an indicator that I was doing everything right.
In general, I have not had patients who were dissatisfied with my treatment. They mainly complain about my character: "Makeeva is too straightforward, that's not how we do things."
Marina Akhmedova: Straightforward - what does that mean?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Sometimes I can say to a mother: "Pay attention to your girl. She is so quiet not because she is modest, but because she is anemic. Let's pour iron into her and give her vitamin D. You will see for yourself how your young lady will blossom."
Marina Akhmedova: Do people get offended by this?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Yes. They prefer to think that a girl is modest. A girl must be modest. Modesty in their understanding is closedness and restraint. Everything that for me, for example, is a barrier to self-development and self-expression. Therefore, when poor Muslim girls or women are not allowed into educational institutions because of their headdress, it is a huge pain for me. I always want to say: "Enough, stop it. These girls, on the contrary, need to be introduced into society as actively as possible." They need to be given quotas in universities and schools so that they can receive a secular education, so that they have their own financial autonomy in the future, so that they do not depend on their husband or parents.
Marina Akhmedova: Do you think that after the question about banning the niqab, the question about banning the hijab will necessarily arise?
Evgeniya Makeeva: No, I don't think so. 80% of all my friends in Dagestan wear hijabs.
Marina Akhmedova: I mean that in the 2010s the issue of uniformity of school uniforms already arose in Dagestan.
Evgeniya Makeeva: This issue needs to be discussed. The government should build mechanisms for integrating citizens into society, not excluding them from society. No one is against the hijab. We just need to come up with mechanisms so that everyone can live comfortably in our multinational Russia.
I have a question now. Dagestan is not the only Muslim region in our country. Why aren't the other republics in such turmoil? Why is the split brewing there? Why, for example, has everyone agreed and is living in Tatarstan?
Marina Akhmedova: Firstly, Tatarstan became part of the Russian Empire much earlier than Dagestan. Secondly, in Dagestan the "storm" began as an echo of the Chechen war, when Western forces worked for division.
Evgeniya Makeeva: We have come to the most interesting part of our interview - Western forces. We are discussing this issue as an internal problem, although in fact it is an external threat.
The Syrian conflict began in 2011. The person who is being returned to us has lived in a foreign environment for more than ten years. He was processed, prepared and returned to Russia. There is a creeping occupation of Dagestan - a republic with access to the sea, which borders on regions of other cultures. The same Ukraine is our great pain, because they are our brothers. We still do not understand how this could happen to them. And here it will be even more difficult.
Marina Akhmedova: Of course, Western external forces are working in Dagestan. But they reveal our internal problems, which could have been avoided. I am sure that a huge number of Dagestanis want to live happily and earn money in the tourism business. But because we have not solved these problems, storms will continue to hit Dagestan.
Evgeniya Makeeva: I believe that the federal authorities should develop a specific plan on how to support our head and our police, who are the first to respond to all these challenges. I believe that tougher measures need to be taken.
Marina Akhmedova: Aren’t you afraid to say this?
Evgeniya Makeeva: I'm not afraid, because a large number of people dear to me live there. I can say that it's time to save Dagestan.
Marina Akhmedova: It sounds like you plan to live there for a long time.
Evgeniya Makeeva: I'm not going anywhere from there.
Marina Akhmedova: And you said that you are a nomad by nature.
Evgeniya Makeeva: It's not all over yet, there are still problems. Yes, I might be invited somewhere, but I don't feel like it's time to leave yet.
Marina Akhmedova: What specific problems are keeping you from leaving?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Problems that others do not pay attention to. I do not understand why in some cases there is an unfounded agreement of Dagestani society to tolerate this further. Most likely, it is fear for one's life. I am the chief physician of a huge organization. When something happens to me, society and social institutions of power react to it sharply and quickly. But if this happened to an ordinary Dagestani, he would be left alone with the trouble.
Marina Akhmedova: I asked you what attracts you to Dagestan, and you started describing the republic's troubles to me. Usually people are not attracted by problems, but by something joyful and positive.
Evgeniya Makeeva: I'm not that type of person. I think the next stage of my life will be some kind of hot spot.
Marina Akhmedova: Are you a warrior?
Evgeniya Makeeva: You could say that.
Marina Akhmedova: What are you fighting against now in Dagestan?
Evgeniya Makeeva: On my small level, I fight for the rights of women and children. It would be incorrect to say that something is violated in Dagestan. There is simply an unprotected layer of the population in the republic, about whom the local authorities think that everything is fine. In fact, women there have no right to vote. She cannot tell anyone about her problems, she is forbidden to do so, it is fraught with reprisals. There is a very difficult situation with domestic violence there. What haven't we seen there!
Marina Akhmedova: Maybe this is normal for Dagestan?
Evgeniya Makeeva: This is not normal. Ordinary Dagestanis don't even know about it. "The girls walk the streets calmly, no one bothers them." That's why I need the patient to take off her niqab, and I would look at her skin for streaks and bruises, because she herself will not say anything about it.
Marina Akhmedova: It turns out that the niqab is also a very convenient way to hide bruises if your husband beats you.
Evgeniya Makeeva: Of course.
Marina Akhmedova: By the way, I didn’t think about that.
Evgeniya Makeeva: I know that now a storm of criticism will start again in my direction. But my task is this: if a woman in a niqab comes to me, I have to get to the bottom of what is happening to her.
Marina Akhmedova: What can you change if you see that a woman is being beaten by her husband?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Globally, I can't change it. I can personally provide her with psychological help. I'll give her my phone number so she can talk to me. Yes, she'll never go and write a statement. But at least she'll know that there's a crazy doctor living in Khasavyurt who will come running if necessary.
Marina Akhmedova: Did at least one woman call you afterwards?
Evgeniya Makeeva: They called me, they came to me. But we didn't write any statements to the authorities. And since there are no statements, the services can't do anything.
Marina Akhmedova: Then I will put the question directly. Maybe this provocation was carried out against you because husbands do not like that you are trying to protect their wives from domestic violence?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Let the investigation sort this out. In any case, I am grateful to the guys from our city department and the higher authorities in Makhachkala for holding everyone accountable and continuing to dig into what happened there.
Marina Akhmedova: Let's return to the questions about hijabs. Do you think that if they ban wearing them now, parents will not send their daughters to school at all? They will either drive them to madrassas or leave them at home without education, as a result of which the woman will not become an active member of society?
Evgeniya Makeeva: My friends ask me this question all the time. I told them: "If someone speaks out against the hijab, I will be the first to cover myself. Girls, I am with you."
Marina Akhmedova: Will you cover yourself with a hijab or a scarf?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Hijab. Hijab is something that Muslim women agree with. Something that they wear proudly, something that they like. It is their choice, and I have no right to speak out against it.
Marina Akhmedova: In Islam there is a concept of "inner hijab", when a person does not just cover his head, but conforms from the inside. But many of us cover ourselves without observing the norms of our religion. This turns into external attributes.
Evgeniya Makeeva: There is such a problem. But I know many sincerely believing Muslim women.
I have a colleague at my clinic whom I love very much. She has been wearing a hijab for a long time, having studied Islam in depth. But I have never found it so interesting to talk to anyone as I have with her. We have very deep conversations about patients, about life in the country and about family. We even discuss topics that seem taboo. If I don’t understand something, I can ask her directly: “Why is this so for you, and that’s so for them?” And she always answers me honestly.
Marina Akhmedova: Especially since you said that people came running to your home when it happened. Not everyone is able to react to such a stressful situation. So, you deserved their love and sympathy.
Evgeniya Makeeva: This is one of the main characteristics of Dagestanis. You are never alone there.
Marina Akhmedova: Despite the fact that you are Russian?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Nationality is not important to them. It is not a criterion for choosing whether I am friends with you or not.
Marina Akhmedova: So you are one of them?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Of course.
Marina Akhmedova: And are they yours?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Not in everything. These are my people, whom I love, and I will never betray them. But I would not choose their way of life for myself.
Marina Akhmedova: We spend the entire interview trying to figure out to what extent they chose this way of life for themselves.
Evgeniya Makeeva: I wouldn't choose him for myself, because I'm a powerful woman. A man can't tell me: "Sit there and don't show off." But in Dagestan, this exists.
Marina Akhmedova: You said that if a tough conversation about banning the hijab suddenly comes up, you too will cover yourself. Will you do this as a sign of solidarity, while remaining an Orthodox person?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Of course. I will have to support my friends. I just want to dispel the fears of Muslims that after the ban on wearing niqabs, hijabs will be banned.
Marina Akhmedova: Would you now advise tourists to come to Dagestan?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Definitely. Let them come visit me.
Marina Akhmedova: What can you see in Khasavyurt?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Khasavyurt is the most interesting city in Dagestan because it has not lost its mountain identity. It can be compared to Fatih (Old Istanbul) - the same messy, bazaar. There are also small streets there, which are difficult to drive through. Khasavyurt lives on the outskirts of Derbent and Makhachkala. But we have large markets where you can find anything. In addition, you can see the Sulak Canyon. Everyone is welcome.
Marina Akhmedova: You said that you carefully read the comments that were written to you. What did you feel then?
Evgeniya Makeeva: I didn't understand what would happen next. They write and write negative things. And then what? Will a crowd come to our clinic? I already said that threats were received not only by me, but also by colleagues. People called the reception directly: "Are you supporting Makeeva?" Because of this, patients couldn't even make an appointment.
Marina Akhmedova: What do you think about the people who threatened you?
Evgeniya Makeeva: I met one of them. They are very impudent guys. They don't care at all what is going on around them. I treat them as those who stole three or four quiet days from me at work. They threw me off schedule. While the storm was going on, I had a lot of cases and patients.
Marina Akhmedova: Why are these guys so impudent and what do they want?
Evgeniya Makeeva: They will continue to stir up society and look for a point of division. Even if our interview is constantly built on the topic of "hijab-niqab", they will press even more on this delicate point.
I believe that the person who will govern Dagestan needs completely different powers. The first thing to do is to fill the republic with Russian teachers and Russian police officers.
A Russian policeman will deal with criminals, despite the fact that he is someone's brother-in-law. A Russian teacher will give Dagestan that very cultural edge that will turn it into the same Russian region as all the others. Above all, a Russian teacher will give children a secular education and cultivate critical thinking in them, so that they will learn to work with the information that will come to them.
Finally, the clergy must do a great deal of work to teach people the correct traditional Islam.
Marina Akhmedova: You said that after Dagestan you might end up in a hot spot. Could you go as a medic to the SVO?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Of course. I am very much needed there. I am very good at stitching and treating wounds. I may not be able to perform a complex surgical operation, but I can provide first aid. In addition, I am self-possessed and stress-resistant. Moreover, when mobilization began, my friend and I were eager to work in a Rostov or Donetsk hospital. Unfortunately, we were not accepted. They said: "You are still little. Sit for a while, and then come."
Marina Akhmedova: How can you leave Dagestan and go to the North-Eastern Front?
Evgeniya Makeeva: Firstly, I was still in Moscow at the time. Secondly, I would have gone there anyway, at least for a month and a half. I always tell the guys: don’t go to practice in big hospitals. Go to the provinces, to a small hospital. You will have a poorly functioning ultrasound machine there, a minimal range of laboratory tests. You will have to determine what is happening to the patient by smell and skin color. Thanks to these difficulties, you will learn everything there. And the SVO is a colossal experience for young doctors.
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