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2020-03-04 Home Front: Politix
The Myth of Moderate Nuclear War. There are many influential supporters of nuclear war, and some of these contend that the use of
[RonPaulInstitute] There are many influential supporters of nuclear war, and some of these contend that the use of "low-yield" and/or short-range weapons is practicable without the possibility of escalation to all-out Armageddon. In a way their argument is comparable to that of the band of starry-eyed optimists who thought, apparently seriously, that there could be such a beast as a "moderate rebel."

In October 2013 the Washington Post reported that "The CIA is expanding a clandestine effort to train opposition fighters in Syria amid concern that moderate, US-backed militias are rapidly losing ground in the country's civil war," and the US Congress gave approval to then President Barack Obama's plan for training and arming moderate Syrian rebels to fight against Islamic State extremists. The belief that there could be any grouping of insurgents that could be described as "moderate rebels" is bizarre and it would be fascinating to know how Washington's planners classify such people. It obviously didn't dawn on them that any person who uses weapons illegally in a rebellion could not be defined as being moderate. And how moderate is moderate? Perhaps a moderate rebel could be equipped with US weapons that kill only extremists? Or are they allowed to kill only five children a month? The entire notion was absurd, and predictably the scheme collapsed, after expenditure of vast amounts of US taxpayers' money.

And even vaster amounts of money are being spent on developing and producing what might be classed as moderate nuclear weapons, in that they don't have the zillion-bang punch of most of its existing 4,000 plus warheads. It is apparently widely believed in Washington that if a nuclear weapon is (comparatively) small, then it's less dangerous than a big nuclear weapon.

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In January 2019 the Guardian reported that "the Trump administration has argued the development of a low-yield weapon would make nuclear war less likely, by giving the US a more flexible deterrent. It would counter any enemy (particularly Russian) perception that the US would balk at using its own fearsome arsenal in response to a limited nuclear attack because its missiles were all in the hundreds of kilotons range and ‘too big to use', because they would cause untold civilian casualties."

In fact, the nuclear war envisaged in that scenario would be a global catastrophe ‐ as would all nuclear wars, because there's no way, no means whatever, of limiting escalation. Once a nuclear weapon has exploded and killed people, the nuclear-armed nation to which these people belonged is going to take massive action. There is no alternative, because no government is just going to sit there and try to start talking with an enemy that has taken the ultimate leap in warfare.

It is widely imagined ‐ by many nuclear planners in the sub-continent, for example ‐ that use of a tactical, a battlefield-deployed, nuclear weapon will in some fashion persuade the opponent (India or Pakistan) that there is no need to employ higher-capability weapons, or, in other words, longer range missiles delivering massive warheads. These people think that the other side will evaluate the situation calmly and dispassionately and come to the conclusion that at most it should itself reply with a similar weapon. But such a scenario supposes that there is good intelligence about the effects of the weapon that has exploded, most probably within the opponent's sovereign territory. This is verging on the impossible.

War is confusing in the extreme, and tactical planning can be extremely complex. But there is no precedent for nuclear war, and nobody ‐ nobody ‐ knows for certain what reactions will be to such a situation in or near any nation. The US 2018 Nuclear Posture Review stated that low-yield weapons "help ensure that potential adversaries perceive no possible advantage in limited nuclear escalation, making nuclear employment less likely." But do the possible opponents of the United States agree with that? How could they do so?

The reaction by any nuclear-armed state to what is confirmed as a nuclear attack will have to be swift. It cannot be guaranteed, for example, that the first attack will not represent a series. It will, by definition, be decisive, because the world will then be a tiny step from doomsday. The US nuclear review is optimistic that "flexibility" will by some means limit a nuclear exchange, or even persuade the nuked-nation that there should be no riposte, which is an intriguing hypothesis.

As pointed out by Lawfare:
...the review calls for modification to ‘a small number of existing submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) warheads' to provide a low-yield option.

It also calls for further exploration of low-yield options, arguing that expanding these options will ‘help ensure that potential adversaries perceive no possible advantage in limited nuclear escalation, making nuclear employment less likely.' This is intended to address the argument that adversaries might think the United States, out of concern for collateral damage, would hesitate to employ a high-yield nuclear weapon in response to a ‘lower level' conflict, in which an adversary used a low-yield nuclear device. The review argues that expanding low-yield options is ‘important for the preservation of credible deterrence,' especially when it comes to smaller-scale regional conflicts.

"Credible deterrence" is a favourite catch-phrase of the believers in limited nuclear war, but its credibility is suspect. Former US defence secretary William Perry said last year that he wasn't so much worried about the vast number of warheads in the world as he was by open proposals that these weapons are "usable". It's right back to the Cold War and he emphasises that "The belief that there might be tactical advantage using nuclear weapons – which I haven't heard being openly discussed in the United States or in Russia for a good many years – is happening now in those countries which I think is extremely distressing." But the perturbing thing is that while it is certainly being discussed in Moscow, it's verging on doctrine in Washington.
These pieces of shit will kill us all.
In late February US Defence Secretary Esper was reported as having taken part in a "classified military drill in which Russia and the United States traded nuclear strikes." The Pentagon stated that "The scenario included a European contingency where you're conducting a war with Russia and Russia decides to use a low-yield, limited nuclear weapon against a site on NATO territory." The US response was to fire back with what was called a "limited response."

First of all, the notion that Russia would take the first step to nuclear war is completely baseless, and there is no evidence that this could ever be contemplated. But ever if it were to be so, it cannot be imagined for an instant that Washington would indulge in moderate nuclear warfare in riposte. These self-justifying wargames are dangerous. And they bring Armageddon ever closer.
Posted by Herb McCoy 2020-03-04 00:12|| || Front Page|| [15 views ]  Top

#1 Is Russia your bug-a-boo, erb?
Posted by Skidmark 2020-03-04 00:58||   2020-03-04 00:58|| Front Page Top

#2 First of all, the notion that Russia would take the first step to nuclear war is completely baseless, and there is no evidence that this could ever be contemplated

What an idiotic claim. The exact opposite is true. Just two of many examples are these documents from the Soviet general staff during the Brezhnev era - excerpt:

Under these conditions, the commanders and headquarters staff of the Eastern Forces were supposed to quickly ascertain the deadlines for the beginning of an enemy nuclear attack and to carry out reconnaissance of important targets as well as prepare aerial forces, rocket troops and artillery to the highest level possible, all the while making arrangements for a first nuclear strike on the enemy.
Posted by Lex 2020-03-04 01:54||   2020-03-04 01:54|| Front Page Top

#3 Seriously, Mr. McCoy — Ron Paul?
Posted by trailing wife 2020-03-04 02:13||   2020-03-04 02:13|| Front Page Top

#4 Any Crank in a pinch for trolling
Posted by Frank G 2020-03-04 04:34||   2020-03-04 04:34|| Front Page Top

#5 Call me crazy, but I don't want to die in a nuclear war started by insane DC elites who can't see anything but their own objectives. It's a controversial opinion, I know, but I'm sticking with it.

We're not in the Brezhnev Era any more. Time to update our worldviews. There are frightening ghouls in DC and the Pentagon who think we can just pop off a couple of small nukes and it will end there.

Frankly, I remember the most common scenario for a nuclear war to start. See if it sounds familiar. Warsaw Pact starts an invasion over the inner-German line. Goes poorly, NATO battlefield commanders begin urgently requesting release of tactical nuclear weapons to break up Pact formations. Faced with the prospect of the Red Army in Antwerp, the political decision is made to release nuclear codes for use by local commanders. The Soviets begin replying with their own tactical nukes. NATO then starts using larger nukes on Pershings to hit logistics centers behind the lines. Things escalate and there is a single strategic nuclear strike, on Minsk for example. This triggers a full scale exchange. All sides lose, nuclear winter begins for the next 10,000 years. Anyone else remember this one, or is it just me?

Ron Paul isn't right 100% of the time, but nobody is. I think his plan to audit the Federal Reserve is an excellent one. They print our money and sell it back to us at a profit.
Posted by Herb McCoy 2020-03-04 04:38||   2020-03-04 04:38|| Front Page Top

#6 Call me crazy

OK.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-03-04 04:41||   2020-03-04 04:41|| Front Page Top

#7 Anyone else remember this one, or is it just me?

Just you...and Major General Smedley Butler
Posted by Frank G 2020-03-04 04:44||   2020-03-04 04:44|| Front Page Top

#8 It's just incredible that a Marine Major General, twice a Medal of Honor recipient, who thwarted a fascist coup to overthrow the US government, is considered a villain by you people.

Un-fucking-believable.
Posted by Herb McCoy 2020-03-04 05:29||   2020-03-04 05:29|| Front Page Top

#9 ^Tailored for incels.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-03-04 05:30||   2020-03-04 05:30|| Front Page Top

#10 When that ramp came down in Saving Private Ryan and the soldiers stormed ashore, you people were cheering for the fascists, weren't you?
Posted by Herb McCoy 2020-03-04 05:33||   2020-03-04 05:33|| Front Page Top

#11 LOL.

Posted by Frank G 2020-03-04 05:44||   2020-03-04 05:44|| Front Page Top

#12 Naturally Crazy Herb: Zionism = Nazism!
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2020-03-04 05:47||   2020-03-04 05:47|| Front Page Top

#13 
Posted by Frank G 2020-03-04 05:51||   2020-03-04 05:51|| Front Page Top

#14 Methinks Herb is strongly BDS.
Posted by Dron66046 2020-03-04 06:55||   2020-03-04 06:55|| Front Page Top

#15 Well Herb is right about the debate
We had the equivalent of a full chair throwing debate the morning of prefix 5 school at Oberammergau about how long it would take for the use of one tactical nuke on an autobahn ridge to escalate into a full nuclear exchange

I thought then and still think that deploying one small nuke is a one way ticket to an extinction level nuclear war
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2020-03-04 07:08||   2020-03-04 07:08|| Front Page Top

#16 Consider the following paras.

Once a nuclear weapon has exploded and killed people, the nuclear-armed nation to which these people belonged is going to take massive action. There is no alternative, because no government is just going to sit there ...

And

But there is no precedent for nuclear war, and nobody ‐ nobody ‐ knows for certain what reactions will be to such a situation in or near any nation.


When a text contains two paragraphs so logically inconsistent, I disregard the entire text as fear mongering balderdash.

And no matter what some 'expert' or some pol says, I don't think you'll ever really meet many 'influential supporters of nuclear war' when it comes to actually making the call.

There has only been one nuke attack, on Japan. Everybody was so mortified (maybe rightly so), the human race practically cancelled out that option mentally right then. If they hadn't, an outrage like 9/11 would have led to only one irreversible outcome - the destruction of Afghanistan and subsequent radiation fallout for parts of pakistain. Jihad would have been finished for Asia.
Posted by Dron66046 2020-03-04 07:11||   2020-03-04 07:11|| Front Page Top

#17 Sounds like somebody needs to re-watch War Games.
Posted by AlanC 2020-03-04 07:34||   2020-03-04 07:34|| Front Page Top

#18 I don't want to die in a nuclear war

You should be safe in your mother's basement.
Posted by Skidmark 2020-03-04 09:01||   2020-03-04 09:01|| Front Page Top

#19 More likely to die in a tupper war.

Posted by swksvolFF 2020-03-04 09:09||   2020-03-04 09:09|| Front Page Top

#20 NB - the first limited nuclear war involved only the employment of two nukes.
Posted by Procopius2k 2020-03-04 10:54||   2020-03-04 10:54|| Front Page Top

#21 (1) The article incoherently jumps from "War is bad, Nuclear War is horrible" to " we don't know, so we can't even discuss it!".

(2) The underlying thesis seems to be implying that nuclear war between US/NATO Vs. Soviet Union/PRC/Warsaw Pact is the exact same thing as an "exchange" with Iran or North Korea because ... "Nuclear Warfare is DoublePlus Bad!"

...and I agree with #15 SPOD that the keeping Tactical Nuclear Warfare "Tactical" is a fool's ambition. I lived within the primary blast zone of a major USAF airbase and it was only in my twenties that the specter of being vaporized started to abate...
Posted by magpie 2020-03-04 11:08||   2020-03-04 11:08|| Front Page Top

#22 There are atomic demolitions whose purpose is to literally move a good portion of a mountain top to the valley below. It's not used against troops, installation, or people (unless they so happen to be underneath the big slide).
Posted by Procopius2k 2020-03-04 11:15||   2020-03-04 11:15|| Front Page Top

#23 Are there really people discussing limited nuclear war these days? Who outside of the Rand Paul Institute is discussing this?

Desire for smaller warheads doesn't mean you really want limited nuclear war, it more likely means you'd like multiple warheads on the same rocket as a further deterrent.
Posted by rjschwarz 2020-03-04 15:42||   2020-03-04 15:42|| Front Page Top

#24 Eric Swalwell and the Rand Paul Institutionals.
Posted by swksvolFF 2020-03-04 15:54||   2020-03-04 15:54|| Front Page Top

#25 There are atomic demolitions whose purpose is to literally move a good portion of a mountain top to the valley below.

Or implode underground domes and tunnel complexes.
Posted by Skidmark 2020-03-04 16:58||   2020-03-04 16:58|| Front Page Top

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