Article

2019-09-12 Britain

[Townhall] British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is desperate to translate the British public's June 2016 vote to leave the European Union into a concrete Brexit.

But the real issue is far older and more important than whether 52 percent of Britain finally became understandably aggrieved by the increasingly anti-democratic and German-controlled European Union.

England is an island. Historically, politically and linguistically, it was never permanently or fully integrated into European culture and traditions.
IMO, its a good thing for the World that they weren't

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2019-09-12 01:46|| || Front Page|| [11134 views ] Top

#1 Same question should be asked about Russia. Peter the Great dragged them in to the orbit, but there is always a cultural spin to go rogue.

Posted by Procopius2k 2019-09-12 07:36|| 2019-09-12 07:36|| Front Page Top

#2 Well, Russia was the grave of Napoleonic and Nazi armies.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2019-09-12 09:56|| 2019-09-12 09:56|| Front Page Top

#3 ...but the plaything of the Mongols for generations.

Posted by Procopius2k 2019-09-12 11:14|| 2019-09-12 11:14|| Front Page Top

#4 The Brexiteers were stupid to pursue Brexit without a BATNA.

Time to rev up the US-Canada-UK Free Trade Agreement.
Get busy.

Posted by Lex 2019-09-12 11:25|| 2019-09-12 11:25|| Front Page Top

#5 Why not Australia and NZ?

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2019-09-12 11:29|| 2019-09-12 11:29|| Front Page Top

#6 but the plaything of the Mongols for generations

But that was before Herr Peter.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2019-09-12 12:06|| 2019-09-12 12:06|| Front Page Top

#7 Why not Australia and NZ?

Because New Zealanders are strange?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2019-09-12 12:08|| 2019-09-12 12:08|| Front Page Top

#8 #3: But it got us Mrs. Trump, for which I am grateful.

Posted by Whiskey Mike 2019-09-12 13:20|| 2019-09-12 13:20|| Front Page Top

#9 Weird headline. It is and always was. The EU is not Europe.
Europe is the only "continent" based on ideas, not on geographical borders (in the East).

The United Kingdom (and England) is of course part of the cultural concept of Europe. I can't imagine Europe without Shakespeare (and Monty Python).

Posted by European Conservative 2019-09-12 13:22|| 2019-09-12 13:22|| Front Page Top

#10 Why not Australia and NZ?

US-Canada is plenty to get done.

Perhaps ANZ and the rest of the Commonwealth in Phase 2.

Maybe Mexico, Chile, South Korea in Phase 3.

Posted by Lex 2019-09-12 13:22|| 2019-09-12 13:22|| Front Page Top

#11 US-Canada-UK would cover $21.4 trillion + $1.9T + $3.0T
= $26.3 trillion

US-Canada-UK + ANZ and Commonwealth would cover $26.3 trillion + $2.2T = $28.5T

Add South Korea, Mexico, Costa Rica, Colombia, and maybe Hungary and Czech when/if they exit the EU and you get to about $33 Trillion (in today's dollars) covered by the US-led Free Trade Bloc within the next 4 years.

Given the accelerated growth that this bloc will enable for its members, we will get close to producing half the world's GDP in short order.

Let's make it happen.

Posted by Lex 2019-09-12 13:36|| 2019-09-12 13:36|| Front Page Top

#12 The United Kingdom (and England) is of course part of the cultural concept of Europe.

Of Europe but not in Europe.

The US is (militarily, economically) everywhere in Europe but increasingly (ethnically and culturally) - unfortunately - no longer of Europe.

If Europe turns away from its elites' obsession with eliminating its nations' various heritages and diluting the concept of national identity in order to create "global citizens", then maybe the US and Europe can make common cause.

Posted by Lex 2019-09-12 13:56|| 2019-09-12 13:56|| Front Page Top

#13 There's no single concept of Europe.

Each european people is different and has their own quirks.

England has never been the slightest bit European, from the Magna Carta to the massive differences in law with the code napoleon and the EUSSR being much more fascist than would be normal in the UK.

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2019-09-12 14:45|| 2019-09-12 14:45|| Front Page Top

#14 the EUSSR being much more fascist than would be normal in the UK

And some "Britons" just love it (no offense, we've people like this in Israel - lots of them)

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2019-09-12 15:01|| 2019-09-12 15:01|| Front Page Top

#15 It does seem to be an attraction to some.

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2019-09-12 15:06|| 2019-09-12 15:06|| Front Page Top

#16 "eliminating its nations' various heritages and diluting the concept of national identity"

I don't see how the EU can do that. It certainly hasn't where I live.

Posted by European Conservative 2019-09-12 16:39|| 2019-09-12 16:39|| Front Page Top

#17 via immigration policies and cultural and education policies

Posted by Lex 2019-09-12 17:06|| 2019-09-12 17:06|| Front Page Top

#18 No Muslims where you live, EC?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2019-09-12 17:11|| 2019-09-12 17:11|| Front Page Top

#19 Cultural and education policies (here) are set by the Bavarian state, not the EU.

The EU has great European exchange programs (Erasmus etc.) which bring young people of different member states together.

Posted by European Conservative 2019-09-12 17:12|| 2019-09-12 17:12|| Front Page Top

#20 In Munich, an estimated 7% of the population is Muslim (mostly Turks). They haven't changed my identity nor Bavarian identity.

The young Turkish women prefer mini skirts to hijabs.

Posted by European Conservative 2019-09-12 17:24|| 2019-09-12 17:24|| Front Page Top

#21 The Brexiteers were stupid to pursue Brexit without a BATNA.

Recall that Theresa May was anti-Brexit before she was tapped as the replacement Tory prime minister, Lex, and the reasoning suddenly appears.

I looked up BATNA and found the following:

Best alternative to a negotiated agreement
In negotiation theory, the best alternative to a negotiated agreement or BATNA is the most advantageous alternative course of action a party can take if negotiations fail and an agreement cannot be reached.

European Conservative, as I recall Bavaria is much like Texas — it remembers being an independent country and as much as possible still acts that way.

Posted by trailing wife 2019-09-12 18:12|| 2019-09-12 18:12|| Front Page Top

#22 EC, I didn't get a chance to compliment you on your astute Hotspur quote/riposte the other day (" tell the truth, and shame the devil"). One of my favorites. Touché!

Posted by Lex 2019-09-12 18:28|| 2019-09-12 18:28|| Front Page Top

#23 BATNA was of course WTO deal EUSSR exit. Which is basically what the referendum voted for.

The rest of the EUSSR vassal states seem to have very little option but to accept the millions of gimmigrants mad merkel flooded into germany.

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2019-09-12 18:43|| 2019-09-12 18:43|| Front Page Top

#24 Lex, thank you! I pity everyone who doesn't read Shakespeare.

Bright Pebbles: Very few immigrants who arrived in Germany have actually been relocated to other EU countries. Those who come to the UK are those who wanted to go there in the first place. They were not relocated from Germany.

In 2018 116,400 refugees entered Germany. Only a few thousands went to other countries after that.

Posted by European Conservative 2019-09-12 19:00|| 2019-09-12 19:00|| Front Page Top

#25 Correction: This UNHCR number is for all EU countries.

Posted by European Conservative 2019-09-12 19:07|| 2019-09-12 19:07|| Front Page Top

#26 I remember the totem poles in Bavarian towns. And the traditions.

Posted by Whiskey Mike 2019-09-12 21:54|| 2019-09-12 21:54|| Front Page Top

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