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2014-08-18 -Lurid Crime Tales-
Autopsy: Michael Brown shot at least 6 times
Michael Brown was shot at least six times, according to the preliminary results of a private autopsy that his family requested.

The independent autopsy was conducted by high-profile pathologist Michael Baden. Baden testified in the O.J. Simpson, Phil Spector and Drew Peterson murder trials.

However, the New York Times, reporting on the same independent autopsy, reported that two of the bullets struck Brown in the head. The other four struck him in the right arm -- and all six were fired into his front.

"This is bound to escalate tensions," the Rev. Jesse Jackson told CNN. "This is a very provocative report."
Posted by KBK 2014-08-18 08:08|| || Front Page|| [11134 views ]  Top

#1 He stressed that his examination was not to determine whether the shooting was justified.

“In my capacity as the forensic examiner for the New York State Police, I would say, ‘You’re not supposed to shoot so many times,’ ” said Dr. Baden, who retired from the state police in 2011. “Right now there is too little information to forensically reconstruct the shooting.”

You're supposed to shoot, then check for a pulse before continuing.
Posted by KBK 2014-08-18 08:30||   2014-08-18 08:30|| Front Page Top

#2 Some eye witness statements said Brown had turned and was "bum rushing" the cop. All 6 shots were to the front of his body. If Brown were advancing towards the cop, you have to wonder if he was on something. Cigars are used to smoke weed by some drug users. Toxicology reports might reveal whether or not Brown was on something.
Posted by JohnQC 2014-08-18 08:52||   2014-08-18 08:52|| Front Page Top

#3 ...I'd want to know what was the angle on those shots.

Mike
Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2014-08-18 08:57||   2014-08-18 08:57|| Front Page Top

#4 NYT autopsy report drawing indicates 4-5 of the six hits would not have been fatal. Other reports said 11 shots fired in all - as police shooting under stress situation goes, that's actually pretty good accuracy. And/or Brown was real close. I fail to see why this report should 'escalate tensions.'
Posted by Glenmore 2014-08-18 09:04||   2014-08-18 09:04|| Front Page Top

#5 There is a video at Drudge where one can clearly hear two witnesses discusing what happened and supporting the police version that Brown turned around and was running at the police officer. He refused to stop and was shot but kept coming.
Posted by Deacon Blues 2014-08-18 09:15||   2014-08-18 09:15|| Front Page Top

#6 Ferguson police officer to receive received prestigious award this year.
Posted by Besoeker 2014-08-18 09:25||   2014-08-18 09:25|| Front Page Top

#7 "In my capacity as the forensic examiner for the New York State Police, I would say, 'You're not supposed to shoot so many times,'

Wasn't that long ago that there was a news posting about NYC's finest emptying their guns on a suspect, not hitting the target, but hitting bystanders.

Shooting to wound is a Hollyweird concept. In most instances the events are so quick (though time shifts when the adrenaline flows), you don't usually enjoy the Hollyweird luxury of marksman like skills to select legs, arms, etc. The basic training is center mass.
Posted by Procopius2k 2014-08-18 09:41||   2014-08-18 09:41|| Front Page Top

#8 'You're not supposed to shoot so many times,' You shoot until the perp is not a threat. Sometimes this takes 11 shots or even more.
Posted by JohnQC 2014-08-18 09:44||   2014-08-18 09:44|| Front Page Top

#9 Sometimes this takes 11 shots or even more

Depends on the caliber and/or how 'jacked up' the assailant is.
Posted by Mullah Richard 2014-08-18 10:25||   2014-08-18 10:25|| Front Page Top

#10 I fail to see why this report should 'escalate tensions.'

Because there is a group of armchair quarterbacks who have a pre-judicial opinion of what happened and don't want to believe the alternative?
Posted by gorb 2014-08-18 10:32||   2014-08-18 10:32|| Front Page Top

#11 Note what is not being discussed:

1. Prior arrests of "gentle giant."
2. Employment of "gentle giant."
3. Educational level of "gentle giant."
4. Prior arrests of "gentle giant's" little buddy and accomplice.
5. Gang connections.
6. Drug and toxicology reports.
7. Number of times shot in the back while running away.
Posted by Besoeker 2014-08-18 10:48||   2014-08-18 10:48|| Front Page Top

#12 Shot too many times? What a dumbassed comment from someone thats obviously never been in a life threatening situation, You shoot because there is a threat. You stop only when that threat stops. The shots to the arm apparently didn't stop the deceased, only the shot to the upper part of the head did, which is what the coroners report allegedly says was the last shot fired.

Shoot until he stops coming at you. Thats what the cop apparently did. This is not too many times - this was "just enough times" sot stop the assault. The problem is the assailant didn't stop when hit until a fatal shot was made. Cop not at fault for that - if the assailant had stopped and dropped when first hit, the fatal shot would not have been fired.
Posted by OldSpook 2014-08-18 11:35||   2014-08-18 11:35|| Front Page Top

#13 Just watched the preliminary autopsy report from Dr. Michael M. Baden. The butcher board graphic he and his assistant displayed showed 4 gunshot wounds to the right arm, one above the right eye, and one to the very top of the head. The initial report indicates all shots appear to be from the front.

My unprofessional opinion is that the one above the eye was the fatal wound and possibly the last shot fired. All other shots [right arm strikes less top of head wound] might be the result of the officer's nervous jerking the trigger pull or poor sight picture.

If the above is proven to be the correct, it may [again may] indicate the perp did not stop his upright, forward movement until dropped form bullet strike above the eye.
Posted by Besoeker 2014-08-18 11:37||   2014-08-18 11:37|| Front Page Top

#14 Ditto to OS at #12. I will also postulate the police officer's service weapon was not a .45 caliber, Colt 1911, but rather a 9mm Glock, S&W, or Sig.
Posted by Besoeker 2014-08-18 11:46||   2014-08-18 11:46|| Front Page Top

#15 The kinetic effects of a massive, slow moving .45 slug(s) would have likely spun the perp around or knocked him over, as opposed to a fast moving 9mm.
Posted by Besoeker 2014-08-18 11:52||   2014-08-18 11:52|| Front Page Top

#16 While I don't know the answers to the questions posed in #11, I can guess. I can also guess that if the answers were in Mr. Brown's favor we would have heard about it by now.
Posted by Steve White 2014-08-18 11:54||   2014-08-18 11:54|| Front Page Top

#17 
Posted by Besoeker 2014-08-18 11:56||   2014-08-18 11:56|| Front Page Top

#18 You shoot until the suspect is halted. The examiner has no right to come off with this unless it is a quote out of context. IE He shot too many time because of his poor aim...
Posted by 49 Pan 2014-08-18 12:43||   2014-08-18 12:43|| Front Page Top

#19 Here are my un-professional observations:

Note the dotted line between the eye and the clavicle, with an X at the clvicle suggesting perhaps it was the bullet's last entry poing. This suggests to me that the guy was leaning forward, perhaps to bum-rush the cop, perhaps because he was injured. The last injury, at the top of the head, seems to have been fired directly into the brain, so I believe he was leaning forward for that shot, too. I don't know if there is a connection between the upper right bicep and right pectoral area, and what the angle on his thumb means.
Posted by gorb 2014-08-18 12:49||   2014-08-18 12:49|| Front Page Top

#20 Wound above the eye is likely a cranial racetrack, exiting the chin and into the chest. Depending upon the angle, the round from the thumb would may have also resulted in another hit to the upper arm. Need to check the officer's magazine to see just how many rounds were fired...might not have been six.
Posted by Besoeker 2014-08-18 12:59||   2014-08-18 12:59|| Front Page Top

#21 My, from the hip, response: now Obama has two sons.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2014-08-18 13:19||   2014-08-18 13:19|| Front Page Top

#22 Hey, g(r)om

The polls are headed south and they need to energize the base (suffering from high unemployment with this administration's economic policies) before the November mid-terms which are usually terrible anyway. Just applying the 'Zimmerman' race hustling blueprint to turn out the vote. They need it big time. Front and center for the next month or two.
Posted by Procopius2k 2014-08-18 13:54||   2014-08-18 13:54|| Front Page Top

#23 Sounds like some of you would like to see the toxicology report. After all the grief they received about the robbery video? Do you want another riot? And what about Holder? You know that's not what he wants.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2014-08-18 14:21||   2014-08-18 14:21|| Front Page Top

#24 County investigation: Michael Brown was shot from the front, had marijuana in his system

Posted by linker 2014-08-18 14:47||   2014-08-18 14:47|| Front Page Top

#25 Oooops!
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2014-08-18 14:56||   2014-08-18 14:56|| Front Page Top

#26 In anticipation that Brown could be vilified by the results of the drug test, conducted as a routine part of the autopsy, protesters have consistently insisted that Darren Wilson, the officer who shot Brown, should be required to submit to one as well.

And if the cop had no substances in his blood then that would be the end of it, right?
Posted by gorb 2014-08-18 14:56||   2014-08-18 14:56|| Front Page Top

#27 Holder's gonna be pissed.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2014-08-18 14:58||   2014-08-18 14:58|| Front Page Top

#28 Just one question. My experience first, second & third hand is that weed makes you mellower or silly. Neither of those seem to fit this case. Something I missed back in the '60s & '70s?
Posted by AlanC 2014-08-18 15:05||   2014-08-18 15:05|| Front Page Top

#29 2 More -
United Nations secretary-general issues statement on Ferguson
Ban Ki-moon called on authorities to ensure that people are able to assemble peacefully and urged law enforcement to abide by U.S. and “international standards in dealing with demonstrations.”

And there is 'Twitter coverage from reporters, officials in Ferguson Live'
from the St Louis Post Dispatch
Posted by linker 2014-08-18 15:11||   2014-08-18 15:11|| Front Page Top

#30 weed makes you mellower or silly
Yes, AlanC, that's how it was in the old days. Modern weed is supposedly lots more potent, plus it's often dusted with enhancing chemicals like PCP.
Posted by Glenmore 2014-08-18 15:29||   2014-08-18 15:29|| Front Page Top

#31 Or rat poison(?) or something(s) like that. Gives it an extra kick, I hear.
Posted by gorb 2014-08-18 15:37||   2014-08-18 15:37|| Front Page Top

#32 A blunt stuffer or Big Boy smokes Big Boy ?
Posted by Besoeker 2014-08-18 16:04||   2014-08-18 16:04|| Front Page Top

#33 One thing for sure. Everyone involved is rushing to the press with their findings in a effort to get their 15 minutes of fame and run the trial in the press and not in the courts.
Posted by 49 Pan 2014-08-18 16:07||   2014-08-18 16:07|| Front Page Top

#34 I'm not a firearms expert, but going by the diagram it looks like the officer was shooting for center of mass but the gun fired to the left. He kept pulling the trigger (not squeezing it) and the recoil of each shot forced the muzzle up and a little to the right.

Try it next time you're at the range.
Posted by Fred 2014-08-18 16:09||   2014-08-18 16:09|| Front Page Top

#35 It would appear picking it up from the clean end, and having the esteemed Dr. Michael M. Baden take a look at things isn't working out so well for the 'hang the copper' crowd.
Posted by Besoeker 2014-08-18 16:15||   2014-08-18 16:15|| Front Page Top

#36 Exactly correct Fred. Too many shots left of center mass, a typical trigger jerk. Rantburg University is recommending lengthy remedial firearms instruction at a remote, gov't run facility off the coast of Holland.
Posted by Besoeker 2014-08-18 16:20||   2014-08-18 16:20|| Front Page Top

#37 A wonderful panel presented by Rantburg U. :-D

I've learnt so much here. Last night we were watching the Lone Ranger film on television, and I had to walk out of the room. The house was being attacked by bad guys, the mother was shooting at them with the rifle, while the pre-teen son was hiding under the table peeking out through a hole instead of reloading for her... or manning another rifle himself.
Posted by trailing wife 2014-08-18 17:28||   2014-08-18 17:28|| Front Page Top

#38 See that too, looks like he walked it right up the line. Also, no exit wounds(?).

Just a reminder - an 18 year old 250lb+ male does not need a weapon to ruin your day.
Posted by swksvolFF 2014-08-18 17:43||   2014-08-18 17:43|| Front Page Top

#39 She probably never ran out of rounds of bullet, either.
Posted by Fred 2014-08-18 17:43||   2014-08-18 17:43|| Front Page Top

#40 One of my more favorite comments so far from the lib/progs is that Mr. Brown was "unarmed".

He's the size of a division 1A right offensive tackle. He doesn't need to be armed to be dangerous.
Posted by Steve White 2014-08-18 18:14||   2014-08-18 18:14|| Front Page Top

#41 She probably never ran out of rounds of bullet, either.

not shouting at each other for two hours..
Posted by swksvolFF 2014-08-18 19:04||   2014-08-18 19:04|| Front Page Top

#42 Only six, the cops were bad shots.

Posted by Squinty Spavilet4564 2014-08-18 19:46||   2014-08-18 19:46|| Front Page Top

18:19 Angstrom
17:48 49 Pan
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