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2011-12-21 Home Front: WoT

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Posted by Anonymoose 2011-12-21 11:05|| || Front Page|| [6 views ] Top

#1 This has gone way beyond acceptable. Local police armories are packed with an insane amount of military weaponry.

When someone asked why a Sheriff needed a .30 caliber, belt fed machine gun, he insisted it was necessary for him to have an anti-aircraft capability. (And this was before 9-11.)

Just north of Phoenix is a major manufacturer of "police explosives", many of which are concussion explosives. However, they had to expand their product line to include M67 fragmentation grenades, because that is what police departments were ordering.

Where on God's green acre would a police department need a frag grenade, much less a case of them?

FYI, the number of SWAT raids in the US has reached 50,000 a year. This crap has to stop.

Posted by Anonymoose 2011-12-21 11:22|| 2011-12-21 11:22|| Front Page Top

#2 State funded National Guard is not subject to Posse Comitatus. If a state believes it needs military capability, it already has its resources at hand. There is no valid argument for much of the militarization of local police. Some of this is empire building by the local law enforcement institutions. More cost effect that such material be centralized, trained, and equipped at the state level and then task forced out as mission and law justify.

Posted by P2Kontheroad 2011-12-21 12:33|| 2011-12-21 12:33|| Front Page Top

#3 True about the guard. Title 32 vs Title 10. Police forces have NO need for this degree and amount of military gear, unless they are gearing up to suppress large swaths of the populace. And if that's the case, laying down a police state, then they will find out the difference between police and soldiers from a lot of us who are still sworn to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Just a reminder, blowing apart unsuspecting people in their homes is a far cry from taking on a large number of trained riflemen who will kill scores of them from far away -- and there are even some who would take out "the enemy" at the police's homes and their families if it comes to that. Boys in blue, you're on notice. Stay away from repression and unconstitutional acts, or you may awaken a nightmare for the nation that will end up with far more of you dead than citizens coerced. Not a threat, just a supposition based on Oath Keepers stuff I have read, and the general turn of attitude against the police in even the most conservative places where I lived and worked.

Posted by OldSpook 2011-12-21 14:41|| 2011-12-21 14:41|| Front Page Top

#4 the general turn of attitude against the police in even the most conservative places where I lived and worked
This will become increasingly important when juries start discounting or ignoring police testimony. The OJ trial was just a taste of that.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2011-12-21 15:51|| 2011-12-21 15:51|| Front Page Top

#5 Thank you war on drugs for the militarization of our police and the further loss of our rights.

Posted by DarthVader 2011-12-21 16:31|| 2011-12-21 16:31|| Front Page Top

#6 Sometime in the future, when sanity is regained in our national leadership, this stuff should be sent to the National Guard.

This is the stuff third world nations do.
The stage is all but set for the wrong actor to become a dictator.

Posted by newc 2011-12-21 17:29|| 2011-12-21 17:29|| Front Page Top

#7 Police forces have NO need for this degree and amount of military gear, unless they are gearing up to suppress large swaths of the populace.

Or one happens to be in Los Angeles.

Posted by Pappy 2011-12-21 17:50|| 2011-12-21 17:50|| Front Page Top

#8 "Gearing up to supporess large swaths of the Populace" > THE QUESTION THAT NEEDS O BE ANSWERED BY OUR LOCAL + NATIONAL LEADERS IS THE SAME AS TIMES LAST, I.E. "WHY"???

Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-12-21 19:46|| 2011-12-21 19:46|| Front Page Top

#9 Do you folks really think the cops should be out there in a riot,bank robbery or barricaded armed suspect wearing no body armour, a soft hat, carrying a 6 shot 38 and a 12 gauge shotgun.

It aint Mayberry anymore people, it is fricken dangerous out there. I buried 6 close friends. A bunch more including me had to retire early due to injuries. Yeah there some weird stuff out there nobody needs a machinegun or frags. But the public can buy most of what the cops have, AR-15s, pepper spray, ballistac helmets, armoured up cars, auto pistols. None of it is secert. Hell there are not enough cops to control the population anyway.

I saw the same trend years ago, but after a few bad experiences I concluded we need the stuff. Police need to under civilain control just like the military - but no your cops are not out of control. But its up to you the citizen to be involved, tell them what you want, you foot the bill - they work for you.

Posted by retired LEO 2011-12-21 20:13|| 2011-12-21 20:13|| Front Page Top

#10 Yes, it's gotten dangerous but the wholesale equipping of departments leads to SWAT and assault teams being used to do somethings that are inappropriate for the circumstances. I'm sure you can cite instances that one can justify their use but at the same time ignore the volume of instances that they weren't. An allied problem here is the unwillingness of the system to hammer miscreants that create such circumstances, weapons escalation, to grow in the first place.

Posted by P2kontheroad 2011-12-21 20:38|| 2011-12-21 20:38|| Front Page Top

#11 P2 yeah there were times I rolled my eyes back thinking what in the hell are they doing - why dont we just knock on the door or use the PA and call em out. Yep that stuff happens. But thats the stuff that makes the news, the good stuff never gets reported. As for miscreants I finshed my career as a Supervisor and did 3 investigations that lead to termination. Ya dont wander too far off the Plantation. The vast majority of cops are good people that care about thier community.

Posted by retired LEO 2011-12-21 21:03|| 2011-12-21 21:03|| Front Page Top

#12 I don't question their provisioning nor their swat tactics in questionable circumstances. I do question the number of "justified" no-knock invasions that have hit wrong addresses and ended with the deaths of innocent homeowners and LEO agents. Agents who act on weak or incorrect information with a no-knock have to be held accountable when it goes wrong or there's no justifiable actionable evidence

Posted by Frank G 2011-12-21 21:14|| 2011-12-21 21:14|| Front Page Top

#13 Do not get me wrong, I have no problem with local Police having an AR-15 in the trunk and a shotgun on the dashboard. I just feel the heavy artillery is getting more common than should be needed. SWAT is for that, National Guard is for that, and yes, if they are isolated I also understand the need for arms in a local department. But AT-4's do concern me no matter who has them.

A bit of discernment is required.

I also believe that reformation of mission in National Guard may be needed in many states at this point. It should be set up to tactically protect the state. Put munitions with those trained to use them, and if heavy munitions are needed, than reform the Guard to where and what mission is needed the most.

I also agree that things are getting quite dangerous but there are ways to counter that without making LEO's have to learn too many tactics and weapon systems on top of the very burdensome training they already receive.

I noted too much op-tempo with Military Police and all of the systems they had to manage (myself included).

I may have not written my last comment too well. Mission enhancement is not arming more, it is merely defining what and with whom that mission belongs with.

I will not step on this activity, I just want eyes on it to make sure... we are not getting missions confused. That is all.

Posted by newc 2011-12-21 22:12|| 2011-12-21 22:12|| Front Page Top

#14 More ...

RUSSIA TODAY > US ADMINISTRATION DECLARES WAR ON ITS OWN PEOPLE.

ARTIC > ALEX JONES = WASHINGTON, DC becom a "REAL ENEMY" AGZ ITS OWN PEOPLE.

* SAME > OBAMA TO APPROVE INDEFINITE DETENTION AND TORTURE OF AMERICANS, vee his signing the NDAA.

* SAME > BATTLEFIELD USA: [ordinary/mainstream] AMERICANS FACE ARREST AS WAR CRIMINALS UNDER AMY STATE LAW.

* WAFF > [YouTube] OBAMA APPROVES "INDEFINITE DETENTION" - US OFFICIALLY NO LONGER A FREE COUNTRY.

* CHINA DAILY FORUM > ONE-THIRD OF YOUNG US ADULTS HAVE BEEN ARRESTED, by Age 23 for infractions or Violations other than minor traffic tickets.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-12-21 22:53|| 2011-12-21 22:53|| Front Page Top

#15 More Redux ...

* CHINA DAILY FORUM > XINHUA: US ECONOMY TO SUFFER TRIPLE-DIP IN 2012.

and

* SAME > KOEHLER: US WAR SHATTERED STABLE IRAQ, [its own US]ECONOMY.

* SAME > USA 2012-2016: AN INSOLVENT + UNGOVERNABLE COUNTRY - GEAB REPORT FOR DECEMBER 2011.

* DEFENCE.PK/FORUMS > CHINA, RUSSIA TO DUMP US DOLLAR FOR BILATERAL [SINO-RUSS] TRADE | CHINIA-RUSSIA CURECNY AGREEMENT FURTHER THREATENS US DOLLAR.

* SAME > CHINA BUYS [lotsa] GOLD TO CHALLENGE US DOLLAR, i.e. weaken the USD to its advantage.

Milyuhns + Dilyuhns of Gold Bullion = tonnes.

[GOLDFINGER Movie, VLADIMIR "THERE IS NO MORE GOLD AT FORT KNOX/US IS BANKRUPT" PUTIN here].

Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-12-21 23:05|| 2011-12-21 23:05|| Front Page Top

#16 Since the Space, Environ Perts keep saying the threat from GWCC is NOT from the Sun.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-12-21 23:06|| 2011-12-21 23:06|| Front Page Top

23:40 gorb
23:20 tu3031
23:10 JosephMendiola
23:10 JosephMendiola
23:06 JosephMendiola
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23:02 P2Kontheroad
22:54 P2Kontheroad
22:53 JosephMendiola
22:43 JosephMendiola
22:28 badanov
22:28 JosephMendiola
22:22 JosephMendiola
22:16 JosephMendiola
22:15 JosephMendiola
22:12 newc
22:03 Richard Aubrey
21:36 JosephMendiola
21:26 Muggsy Glink
21:20 JosephMendiola
21:14 Frank G
21:09 JosephMendiola
21:07 JosephMendiola
21:03 retired LEO