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2009-04-22 Home Front: Politix

President Obama And The Real Shame of Guantanamo

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Posted by Beavis 2009-04-22 08:17|| || Front Page|| [6 views ] Top

#1 I think the Dems are playing with fire. This was done solely to embarrass GWB.

I shudder to think what the backlash will be if, and I hope not, we ever have another 9/11 type terrorist attack on the US.

While I hope it never occurs again, these actions almost guarantee that we will be attacked again in a horrific manner.

I wonder what kind of grand rhetoric this moron will have to explain away these actions after one of our cities either disappears or is rendered uninhabitable for centuries?

The CIA might as well bring all of their field agents home and let them play crossword puzzles if this action is indicative of how the Obama administration wants to protect us from the Islamofascist nut jobs that are out there plotting every day to destroy us.

Thank you NYT, Boston Globe and LATimes for all of your sabotage and leftist twisted journalism. You were so invested in trying to make GWB look bad that you forgot our national security should be more important than cheap partisan politics.

Posted by James Carville 2009-04-22 10:45|| 2009-04-22 10:45|| Front Page Top

#2 All of this make me feel conflicted.

part of me says 'We're fighting animals! We gotta do what we gotta do to protect Americans'

the other part of me says 'We accused and convicted Japanese of warcrimes.. one of the damning accusations was waterboarding.'

I guess the conflict merges with an old saying 'Honor is for those who can afford it.'

this one also hits me pretty hard
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benj Franklin

So.. Can we afford to uphold American values with all of the horror our enemies will inflict. Or do we dive into the muck?

What do you guys think? Muck or Honor?

What America do you want to live in? If you choose Muck, is the American dream dead?

Posted by Dcreeper 2009-04-22 12:49|| 2009-04-22 12:49|| Front Page Top

#3 "Muck or Honor"???

Life is not that black and white. We kill in wartime, we burn people alive with sticky stuff that creates great pain and suffering, we blast white phos onto targets creating severe pain, suffering and death. Nearby women and children get caught up in it too. This is real life, no nice, not pretty, but very real and not a crime.

The "muck" your talking about is whosale torture that the Japanese soldiers performed unchecked and on a daily basis to most every captive in their control. What we are talking about here with waterboarding is select individuals questioned in a way that is only frightening and in no way compares to the mass torture, maiming, and executions the Japanese did to their captives for the sake of inflicting pain for pains sake only. This holier than though crap calling every technique torture is just plain amateur hour, study it, learn and then watch how our local police question Americans. If our country allowed troops to torture captives as standard protocol then our nation deserves to fall. But this was not the case. It was very selective to a relative few that held actionable information. It was monitored at the highest levels and authorized on a case by case basis by the president. Hell, a US State judge can sentence someone to death by electrocution, another torture by definition, and our President is not even informed.

Please get the facts straight here on this before you go lumping isolated events with the true war crimes and real human suffering. Otherwise your just another stooge for a political game.

Posted by 49 Pan 2009-04-22 15:58|| 2009-04-22 15:58|| Front Page Top

#4 If you knew that a terrorist group had a nuclear weapon and were deploying it in the US AND you apprehended one of the group, what would you be willing to do to that person to prevent the nuclear weapon from being detonated?

Since every terrorist group is actively trying to get a nuke and deliver a nuke to our back yard, every terrorist we question is a potential "ticking bomb" scenario.

Obama is a simple minded and mean spirited moron who will get a lot of people killed.

I wonder how the MSM and all of the Dems in congress will spin this if a terrorist attack occurs that could have been thwarted by "aggressive interrogation"?

Posted by James Carville 2009-04-22 17:00|| 2009-04-22 17:00|| Front Page Top

#5 49 Pan
I didn't base any of my statements on scale.. so I'm not sure where my facts need to be straightened out.

You'd have to be pretty dumb to think our anti terror efforts match the numbers produced by WWII Japan. Please don't call me dumb. It lowers me and you.

Your other argument was based on combat. Combat is brutal, it's a fight to the death. There is no changing that.

Torturing a helpless prisoner is something else entirely. (apples / oranges.. etc)

James,
Thanks for your response. It's a fair argument.
My crude paraphrase of it would be "Muck, because the risk is too high"
(I'd rather not quibble on their ability to access nukes, so I'll just run with it as is)

I wonder tho, if the most powerful nation in the world, the great experiment, the leader of the free world, the best of the best.. can't afford or no longer believes in American idealism.

How can anyone believe in our 'ideals' when we are so quick to throw them aside?

perhaps we should re-label ourselves as 'the experiment', 'leader of the not-as-free-as-our-founding-fathers', and 'best of the least worst'

Posted by Dcreeper 2009-04-22 17:39|| 2009-04-22 17:39|| Front Page Top

#6 when the ineveitable attack occurs, and it will, I hope it is on a blue city. Consequences, and all that. Not trying to be a bastard (for once), just hoping for a learning moment that your vote matters, policies count, national will to defend is important, and your f*cking feelings - as much as they matter in this Obama/Oprah age - can get hurt too

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2009-04-22 18:15|| 2009-04-22 18:15|| Front Page Top

#7 How can anyone believe in our 'ideals' when we are so quick to throw them aside?

You have ideals when you can afford them.

At the time of the 9/11 attacks, American intelligence capabilites were stunted. Perhaps a better term would be 'damaged'. That was acceptable, given the then-conditions and attitudes of the population and the government.

I'll stop here. I was going to go into more detail, but I sense given your posts, that it'd be like explaining pastel hues to a blind man.

Posted by Pappy 2009-04-22 18:25|| 2009-04-22 18:25|| Front Page Top

#8 there is no muck to dive into. There are no helpless prisoners being waterboarded, 90% of them didn't just end up in custody while herding their goats. If mistakes happen we are still the only country on earth that does its best to fix them.

American idealism & "honor" is given to those who are captured in uniform. Barbarians committing acts of savagery out of uniform get no such luck. Waterboard the shit out of them. It doesn't diminish us one bit to do it, it would make us fucking idiots no to.

Posted by Broadhead6 2009-04-22 18:25|| 2009-04-22 18:25|| Front Page Top

23:26 remoteman
23:19 Zhang Fei
23:13 Halliburton - Mysterious Conspiracy Division
23:00 Richard of Oregon
22:46 Thing From Snowy Mountain
22:44 Zhang Fei
22:41 Silentbrick
22:34 abu do you love
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22:17 Frank G
21:56 Thing From Snowy Mountain
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