Article

2008-08-22 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Besoeker 2008-08-22 00:00|| || Front Page|| [1 views ] Top

#1 BOTH RUSSIA + CHINA, etc. fear the RISE AND POTENCY OF NUCLEAR ISLAMISM in CENTRAL ASIA, plus themselves and all other ASIAN POWERS becom Islamist in their turn.

Lest we fergit, 21ST CENTURY [old] > so-called ASIA = PACIFIC = ASIA-PACIFIC CENTURY >= may just start out wid a de facto PAN-ASIAN/EURASIAN-WIDE WAR FOR CONTROL OF SAME, TO DECIDE SAME???

Posted by JosephMendiola 2008-08-22 01:24|| 2008-08-22 01:24|| Front Page Top

#2 The Russians already handed over about 400,000 passports to residents of Crimea (90% of its residents is Russian speaking).

The next will be the south (with Odessa and the rest of Black Sea coast) and the richest, industrialized east of today's Ukraine - so-called "Novorossiya" (historical New Russia), mostly Russian speaking and staunch supporters of Viktor Yanukovych and his russofile Party of Regions.

Well - what was good for a Yugoslav goose in the nineties, will be good for Ukrainian gander, eh?

Posted by Matt K. 2008-08-22 02:12|| 2008-08-22 02:12|| Front Page Top

#3 Well - what was good for a Yugoslav goose in the nineties, will be good for Ukrainian gander, eh?

Except the Russian lust extends to the Baltic States as well just as Greater Serbia lusted for power and territory. It's pure Pan-Slavism whether its the Balkans or Eastern Europe. 'If we touch it, it's ours' philosophy. So since in their view, Might Makes Right, what does that allow US.

Posted by Procopius2k 2008-08-22 09:07|| 2008-08-22 09:07|| Front Page Top

#4 [Aris.Katsaris has been pooplisted.]

Posted by Aris.Katsaris">Aris.Katsaris 2008-08-22 09:22|| http://katsaris.livejournal.com]">[http://katsaris.livejournal.com] 2008-08-22 09:22|| Front Page Top

#5 what part of "sold" don't you understand?

Posted by Betty Grating2215 2008-08-22 09:27|| 2008-08-22 09:27|| Front Page Top

#6 [Aris.Katsaris has been pooplisted.]

Posted by Aris.Katsaris">Aris.Katsaris 2008-08-22 09:28|| http://katsaris.livejournal.com]">[http://katsaris.livejournal.com] 2008-08-22 09:28|| Front Page Top

#7 [Aris.Katsaris has been pooplisted.]

Posted by Aris.Katsaris">Aris.Katsaris 2008-08-22 09:33|| http://katsaris.livejournal.com]">[http://katsaris.livejournal.com] 2008-08-22 09:33|| Front Page Top

#8 The argument should be framed in terms of "democracy" and the rights of citizens to determine their government. While this can result in civil wars (as in our own country) the idea that another country can just come in and invade should not be acceptable to anyone in this century.

Posted by Betty Grating2215 2008-08-22 09:46|| 2008-08-22 09:46|| Front Page Top

#9 and before some idiot comes back and points at the US intervention in Iraq - please - try to remember that Sadaam was a tyrant who invaded another country, subjected and murdered his people, threatened the west through his funding and support of terrorists and was given ample opportunity, through the UN and world collective, to modify his behavior before we went in and helped the Iraqi people form what will hopefully be a democracy.

Posted by Betty Grating2215 2008-08-22 09:53|| 2008-08-22 09:53|| Front Page Top

#10 let me try.

The ethnic Russians in Ukraine are well represented democratically by the "Party of the Regions", and Ukraine is a functioning democracy.

The Kosovar Albanians, were a much smaller and permanent minority within the Republic of Serbia (that they situation was more complex in the Fed Rep of Yugoslavia overall, was of much less use to the Kos Albs, as FRY dissolved into its components, in part in response to Slobos aggressive Serb nationalism) Kosovos autonomous status was ended, leading to violent resistance in Kosovo.

Still no sause for that gander from the West.

Not even AFTER the Serb actions in Croatia and Bosnia. NATO was softer on Serbia and its presence in Kosovo that Ari was, apparently.

Slobo then attempted to weaken Kos Alb resistance by cracking down on Kosovo MODERATES. Leaving the radical Kosovo Liberation Army as the only viable opponent of the Serbs. When he failed to defeat the KLA with ordinary military or counterinsurgency means (hard to clear hold build when the local population sees you as oppressors) he began to put Kosovar Albs on trains to Albania. Using massacres of adult male Kos Albs as a good incentive to get them to move. And by massacre we are not talking about them dying cause shells fell on a city where there were soldiers, or tripping over a cluster bomb. We're talking about unarmed civilians being lined up and shot, and their bodies carted to Belgrade to keep it a secret.

Even so, NATO negotiated with Serbia to withdraw. When they did not, NATO intervened to end the ethnic cleansing.

In S Ossetia, after GENEROUS offers of autonomy by Georgia, S Ossetians continued to engage in violence against Georgia. Georgia invaded using conventional military means, bombarded a city, and about a hundred or so S Ossetians died in the bombardment. Moscow claimed it was 2000 civvie deaths, called it genocide, and invaded within hours, no negotiations, no warning, no nothing.
They managed through the most biased news reports (look at the Russia Today clips on Youtube) to convince their own people of the truth. And a few foreigners, mainly those who are less interested in the people of the Caucasus than they are in anti-US schadenfreude.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-22 09:57|| 2008-08-22 09:57|| Front Page Top

#11 Ever make the mistake of calling a Ukranian a Russian?
Don't...

Posted by tu3031 2008-08-22 09:59|| 2008-08-22 09:59|| Front Page Top

#12 oh and in Ukraine, there has been no violence directed by the state against its minority citizens.

NONE. WHATSOEVER.

Yet Russian apologists are already salivating at the prospect of breaking up the Ukraine. Showing their true colors.

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-08-22 09:59|| 2008-08-22 09:59|| Front Page Top

#13 While the Russians did take a beating in WWII, Russia and UK are the only two European empires not to have been defeated in war and dismembered as a result.

The UK decided to, effectively, hand over its imperial responsibilities to the US which has, effectively, picked up the ball in its own unique way.

I doubt the Russian will relinquish their imperial ambitions until they have lost a war. I would prefer that the Chinese wage it.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-08-22 10:29|| 2008-08-22 10:29|| Front Page Top

#14 Following Russian precedent in Georgia, the Chinese shoudl start handing ouyt passports to the millions of ethnic chinese in Russian terriroty to the east. Hand them an AK as well.

They outnumber ethnic Russians in a large number of areas in the east.

Say goodbye to Vladivostok, Putin.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-22 11:55|| 2008-08-22 11:55|| Front Page Top

#15 How do you say Primorsky Krai in Chinese?

Posted by Spike Uniter 2008-08-22 12:29|| 2008-08-22 12:29|| Front Page Top

#16 I've wondered whether the Ukrainians returned ALL the weapons they said they had. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

Posted by ed 2008-08-22 12:57|| 2008-08-22 12:57|| Front Page Top

#17 Betty Graning - pardon me, Saddam Hussein a tyrant? How come, since when?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDABe8AOuCQ

Posted by Matt K. 2008-08-22 16:45|| 2008-08-22 16:45|| Front Page Top

#18

Redacted by moderator. Comments may be redacted for trolling, violation of standards of good manners, or plain stupidity. Please correct the condition that applies and try again. Contents may be viewed in the sinktrap. Further violations may result in banning.

Posted by Matt K. 2008-08-22 16:54|| 2008-08-22 16:54|| Front Page Top

#19 Re Ruthenians:
According to a recent Ukrainian census, an overwhelming majority of Boykos, Lemkos, Hutsuls, Verkhovyntsi and Dolynians in Ukraine stated their nationality as being Ukrainian. About 10,100 people, or 0.8%, of Ukraine's Zakarpattia Oblast (province) identified themselves as Rusyns (Русини); by contrast, 1,010,000 considered themselves Ukrainians.

Yea, opressed Ruthenians... It would be like saying that Moravian Valachs (Moravtí Valai) are opressed by Czechs. They are Czechs, even though they were originally migrants from Wallachia, more than 3 centuries ago.

Posted by Spike Uniter 2008-08-22 18:51|| 2008-08-22 18:51|| Front Page Top

#20 BTW, I could say that I am a Moravian, but that designation has only a regional meaning. It is not a nationality, nor an ethnicity, and despite that there are several Moravian dialects, they are variants of Czech language, mutually highly intelligible. My birth certificate states Nationality: Czech (Národnost: česká). Not moravská.

Posted by Spike Uniter 2008-08-22 19:00|| 2008-08-22 19:00|| Front Page Top

#21 Thank the heavens I'm a mongrel.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2008-08-22 19:30|| 2008-08-22 19:30|| Front Page Top

#22 pardon me, Saddam Hussein a tyrant? How come, since when?

MikeK, thanks for showing how stupid you can be.

But in all fairness, I did found some video proof of Saddam being a jolly nice fellow, and it does back up your claim that Saddam was not a tyrant.

More of Mike K's Youtube Proof

Its probably more relevant than what you posted, and its certainly as informative.

Let the debate begin!

Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-22 19:45|| 2008-08-22 19:45|| Front Page Top

#23 OS, that would be Matt K. Mike K is a 'burger of good standing and better judgement than mine (not that that's character-reference-level stuff)

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-08-22 19:55|| 2008-08-22 19:55|| Front Page Top

#24 More of Mike K's Youtube Proof

Dammit I hate when I fall for that...

lol

Posted by Beavis 2008-08-22 20:03|| 2008-08-22 20:03|| Front Page Top

#25 Thank the heavens I'm a mongrel.

Deacon Blues, I believe that, ultimately, we all are. Take the area of Central Europe and count all the tribes and nations, armies that passed through and back and forth, in just the past 1500 years.

Posted by Spike Uniter 2008-08-22 20:10|| 2008-08-22 20:10|| Front Page Top

#26 Mongrel? I prefer mutt.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-22 20:14|| 2008-08-22 20:14|| Front Page Top

#27 Sry MattK. Mkiey is someone far different. Ed, please edit and correct if you can.

Hurricanes and such. Its 5 O'clock somewhere.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-08-22 20:19|| 2008-08-22 20:19|| Front Page Top

#28 I ment mutt.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2008-08-22 20:25|| 2008-08-22 20:25|| Front Page Top

23:55 JosephMendiola
23:50 JosephMendiola
23:44 Lampedusa Glack5566
23:36 newc
23:21 3dc
23:19 3dc
23:10 Anonymoose
23:07 Procopius2k
22:58 badanov
22:57 DarthVader
22:53 Mike Kozlowski
22:24 Frank G
22:13 CrazyFool
22:09 DMFD
22:08 Frank G
22:02 Mike Kozlowski
21:59 Mike Kozlowski
21:48 Frank G
21:45 Abu Uluque
21:42 CrazyFool
21:23 OldSpook
21:17 mrp
21:17 DarthVader
21:15 Eric Jablow