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2007-11-05 India-Pakistan

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Posted by john frum 2007-11-05 14:26|| || Front Page|| [6 views ] Top

#1 This man is absolutely nauseating. The condescension dripping from every word, the holier than thou attitude, it's just painful.
And the comment from Ms. Narain (stack the deck, force everyone to pay hidden costs) "...and then let the market work"; a 'special understanding' of the market at work here.

Posted by Whiskey Mike 2007-11-05 15:00|| 2007-11-05 15:00|| Front Page Top

#2 This man is absolutely nauseating. The condescension dripping from every word, the holier than thou attitude, it's just painful.

Go and spend some time in India, pick a city, any city. You might change your tune. The very worst road here, is usually better than the best road there. India needs the Rs. 1 lahk, car like it needs more Maoists.

Posted by Lonzo Ometh1773 2007-11-05 15:15|| 2007-11-05 15:15|| Front Page Top

#3 Is this fool an example of the 'snob' TW was referring to in an earlier post?
Let the Indian market decide; they are smart and will figure out what is best for them.

Posted by USN,Ret. 2007-11-05 15:16|| 2007-11-05 15:16|| Front Page Top

#4 I do adore you, USN, Ret. :-)

What India needs is proper roads, and at least double the number of traffic lanes per road, as Lonzo Ometh1773 points out. For perspective, however, a $2,500 car is a decidedly upper middle class purchase in India, which pretty much means those who have inherited money or work for international corporations. One million units sold annually, in a nation whose population is on one or the other side of one billion (I used to know, but I've forgotten), is not going to make a significant increase in traffic, especially if it means half the number of trips for those who've moved up from a motor scooter, ie all of them.

The key is that one million units means high paying, skilled factory jobs plus the add-on jobs for the businesses that support the manufacturers, all of whom and which pay taxes, which will pay for the road construction the affluent and articulate car buyers will soon demand. At any rate, that's how it worked in the U.S., back when Henry Ford had his mass production epiphany. For an editorialist, Mr. Friedman has less understanding of economic principle than I do -- which makes his far to the left of pathetic. I am not so unfair, though, as to expect a dynamo like Ms. Narain to have any understanding of such plebian subjects whatsoever.

Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife 2007-11-05 15:42|| 2007-11-05 15:42|| Front Page Top

#5 they are smart and will figure out what is best for them.

That's a bit optimistic. Corruption and graft are still so pervasive in India that the really big decisions are rarely free of some truly stunning conflicts of interst.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-11-05 15:46|| 2007-11-05 15:46|| Front Page Top

#6 Yes, Mr. freedman, God forbid that peasants in India might have the freedom and ability to go where they want whenever they want.

/sarcasam

Posted by Mike 2007-11-05 16:03|| 2007-11-05 16:03|| Front Page Top

#7 The condescension dripping from every word, the holier than thou attitude, it's just painful.

Attitude is typical of the enviro-zealot. He has the answer that must be imposed on the Indian masses.

Posted by john frum 2007-11-05 16:19|| 2007-11-05 16:19|| Front Page Top

#8 Yes, Mr. freedman, God forbid that peasants in India might have the freedom and ability to go where they want whenever they want.

Like TW said, this car will not be affordable by peasants. The average peasant makes about 1/5 per year the cost of this car. I said average, because a substantial number of those in the peasant category make far less.

And Zensters observation vis-a-vis corruption is spot on, even if a tad understated. Will the car go to market? Yes. Is it a good idea? Not in my opinion. But no one usually listens to me anyway. 8-)

Posted by Cliting Jones5431 2007-11-05 16:23|| 2007-11-05 16:23|| Front Page Top

#9 Friedman is just jealous of India's Tatas.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-11-05 16:25|| 2007-11-05 16:25|| Front Page Top

#10 Friedman is just jealous of India's Tatas.

I wish I had said that!

Posted by Chaimp the Scantily Clad7034 2007-11-05 16:36|| 2007-11-05 16:36|| Front Page Top

#11 Hang around. It won't be long before Friedman gives you another chance.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-11-05 16:45|| 2007-11-05 16:45|| Front Page Top

#12 When, in 1907, the Chief Commissioner for Indian Railways Frederick Upcott heard of JRD Tata's plan to produce steel, he said "Do you mean to say that Tatas propose to make steel rails to British specifications? Why, I will undertake to eat every pound of steel rail they succeed in making."

Tata Steel bought Corus (the successor to British Steel) in February 2007.

Posted by john frum 2007-11-05 16:50|| 2007-11-05 16:50|| Front Page Top

#13 John, There's also Mittal. What's with India and metalurgy?

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-11-05 16:54|| 2007-11-05 16:54|| Front Page Top

#14 There is also Jindal Steel

Jindal Steel and Power Ltd won the development rights for 20 billion tonnes of iron ore reserves in Bolivia, and announced plans to invest $2.3 billion over the next 10 years for mining and setting up a steel plant there.

Posted by john frum 2007-11-05 17:03|| 2007-11-05 17:03|| Front Page Top

#15 What's with India and metalurgy?

A long history

The famed Damascus steel blades were made from wootz ingots inported from India.

The iron pillar of Delhi is one of the world's foremost metallurgical curiosities, standing in the famous Qutb complex.

The pillaralmost seven meters high and weighing more than six tonswas erected by Chandragupta II Vikramaditya (375-413 AD)

The pillar is made up of 98% wrought iron of pure quality. It has attracted the attention of archaeologists and metallurgists as it has withstood corrosion for the last 1600 years, despite harsh weather.

Posted by john frum 2007-11-05 17:09|| 2007-11-05 17:09|| Front Page Top

#16 John, Thanks. That's part of what I love about the burg. There's not much somebody here doesn't know.

I've recently read some of Joseph Needham's work on Chinese science and technology. Has anyone made a similar study of India? I know that they have generated an enormous body of computational and mathematical work. Where could I learn of contributions in other fields?

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-11-05 17:13|| 2007-11-05 17:13|| Front Page Top

#17 Maybe India needs to adopt what Heinlein used in his short story, "The Roads Must Roll". Ironically, the idea of moving the roads, not the cars, is not as nonsensical as it used to be.

That is, by selecting a few densely packed transportation corridors, and turning them into what amounts to giant conveyor belts, you could guarantee a consistent speed in both directions, and probably save energy in the process. Even stalled vehicles would not hold up traffic.

This is already being done with pedestrian traffic in many airports, and has proven itself able to move far more people much further and faster than by them just walking. There is also no congestion.

Importantly, the rolling roads need not run around the clock, just at times of peak congestion.

There would be a stationary center safety lane, and perhaps a faster, much narrower moving pedestrian and bicycle lanes on the outside, like in the airports. The main road would be covered by panels that would support vehicles.

Compared to stop-and-go averaging five mph, as well as obstructions that can halt everyone for minutes at a time, a guaranteed ten mph would seem very fast indeed.

Posted by Anonymoose 2007-11-05 17:35|| 2007-11-05 17:35|| Front Page Top

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