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2007-08-03 Home Front Economy

Bridge Collapse: Here Comes the Alarmism

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Posted by McZoid 2007-08-03 00:00|| || Front Page|| [4 views ] Top

#1 A cancer, eh? Then it's been growing for 50 years, ever since the Feds started paying 80% (or more) for new Interstate construction, but left maintenance up to the states. Actually, the seed was probably planted in the 1920's.

When the Silver Bridge fell (30 years ago?, the Feds mandated biannual bridge inspections, so we identified the cancer 30 years ago, but the WHOLE COUNTRY just watched it grow. Every federal transportation bill gave more money for new construction, but none for maintenance. Just wait until the road or bridge needs to be replaced, then the Feds will rescue you!

Now the states are looking for private money, in the form of toll roads, but who is worried about the greedy, corrupt contractors (like my employer!) robbing the public blind? Why the Saviors of the Universe, the Main Stream Media, of course! Besides, the toll roads just bring more infrastructure to maintain, they do nothing to address the existing condition of bridges. Or roads. Or sanitary sewer systems. Water supplies. Power grid. Infrastructure. Sleep tight. The bureaucrats are watching over you.

Posted by Bobby 2007-08-03 06:16|| 2007-08-03 06:16|| Front Page Top

#2 Politicians don't get reelected by taxing their constituents to replace infrastructure. Anyway, once the price of gas stays over $8 a gallon, highway bridge maintenance will seem a great deal less important.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2007-08-03 06:57|| 2007-08-03 06:57|| Front Page Top

#3 where the f*ck do you keep coming up with "daily inspections", McZoid? Once a year evaluation is usual, and bi-annual is common for newer bridges. What "work crews" do you think man most bridges? Only large ones like the Golden Gate have permanent staffing.

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-08-03 07:11|| 2007-08-03 07:11|| Front Page Top

#4 This may have been preventable, it may have just been one of those damned things that happens. How about we figure out what happened first, then start drawing conclusions?

Posted by Mike 2007-08-03 07:21|| 2007-08-03 07:21|| Front Page Top

#5 My heart goes out to the victims and families, so very sad. One must wonder if anyone in Washington has made the connection between today's US infrastruture needs and thousands of years of distant, middle-eastern wars? Anyway, some Besoeker trivia follows:

And of bridges and tolls, there is an old bridge across the mighty Wabash at New Harmony, Indiana, a town worth the visit with or without the brigde. The bridge was constructed in 1930 and a nichol toll was charged for crossing "due to hard times." The bridge is now down to one lane due to safety, and yes, the toll remains... but $ 1.00 now as I recall. If you happen to go there, good victuals and lodging can be found at the Red Geranium.

http://www.willard.lib.in.us/photos/card67.html

Posted by Besoeker 2007-08-03 07:35|| 2007-08-03 07:35|| Front Page Top

#6 This story is sounding an awful lot like our New Orleans levee story. Overlapping jurisdictions covering design, construction, maintainance; plus political predisposition to spending money on appearrances and 'new' things, not repairs and replacement of stuff we already have.

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2007-08-03 07:39|| 2007-08-03 07:39|| Front Page Top

#7 The problem is not the funding, but where the local politicians spend it. Spending on revamping bridges (except after a situation like this) while necessary is not going to win over voters like entitlement programs do. The Feds helped build the bridges, then left it up to the states to keep them up. While some federal money comes in for maintainance, most of the states/cities/counties just don't spend the money needed on keeping the roads and other infrastructure well maintained. I have seen many times the budget for the roads barely gets any more money, but the new free children's clinic gets millions. Meanwhile, the roads are pretty much one big pothole.

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2007-08-03 08:12|| 2007-08-03 08:12|| Front Page Top

#8 I've heard the telly talking about this being Bush's fault. Does this $hit never stop? What perverted stretch of logic is that?

Posted by JohnQC 2007-08-03 08:50|| 2007-08-03 08:50|| Front Page Top

#9 Well if the fate of the Korean hostages rests solely on him, why shouldn't this? Hell, let's blame everything on him, sunspots, red tides, price of gas, adoption paperwork hassles, ect, ect, ect.
I don't think he gives a rat's ass anyway, he's used to it by now.

Posted by bigjim-ky 2007-08-03 09:56|| 2007-08-03 09:56|| Front Page Top

#10 If the North and Northeast were its own country they would have to solve its own problems instead of stomping their feet and pouting and talking about how It's That Guy From Texas To Blame.

Posted by Abdominal Snowman 2007-08-03 10:03|| 2007-08-03 10:03|| Front Page Top

#11 The evening news has discovered metal fatigue, it seems.

Posted by mojo">mojo 2007-08-03 11:27|| 2007-08-03 11:27|| Front Page Top

#12 Bush doesn't care about Scandinavian people!!!!!!!

Posted by Kanyegard Westenson 2007-08-03 11:28|| 2007-08-03 11:28|| Front Page Top

#13 Maybe the MSM has discovered metal fatique, but most of them were already pioneers in the area of mental fatigue.

It's going to take a while to sort all this out, but before settling on metal fatigue as the culprit, I contend there's room for engineering (a structural flaw in the design?) and human error (construction crew took a chunk out of a support?). We unfortunately won't know anytime soon.

Posted by Dar">Dar 2007-08-03 11:56|| 2007-08-03 11:56|| Front Page Top

#14 If Minnesota didn't siphon off billions of transportation dollars to build trains that nobody rides, there might be enough money to make sure bridges don't fall into the effing river.

Oh no, we can't have that, we need these little train thingies. All the liberal cities have them, so we need them too. meanwhile..... SPLASH!

Posted by Mike N. 2007-08-03 12:22|| 2007-08-03 12:22|| Front Page Top

#15 As an engineer who dabbles in the public funding side of engineering thingies, this is just the tip of the iceberg folks. Many have summed it up nicely already....Uncle Sam (the Feds) originally paid for it (or well over 50% of it), then left it to the States, Counties and Cities to build/maintain the rest of it.

BUT, because so much of our hard-earned taxpayers dollars are going to other "neat and new" projects (pork) instead of the infrastructure, delays are built-in for decades in maintaining what ya got. So, all the sudden it's a crisis (like this), when the ASCE has been telling ALL of us for years (at least 10 years) that we need to maintain what we got.

Here's just a small example....the EPA paid for everyone to get a Wastewater Treatment Plant in their city that met EPA standards (secondary treatment) in the 1970s (and for most of the sewers connected to it). That made a HUGE leap forward in Public Health issues (before that, pretty much raw sewage was dumped in every creek in the nation). But, what was the side effect? Subsidized/Lower sewer bills. So, then every Mayor since the 1970s has promised to keep those sewer (and water) bills low. But, then whammy, 30-40 years later, the stuff's worn out (or completely over capacity, because of growth) and so you all the sudden have these huge lawsuits against the major cities. The City of Atlanta (which is actually not that large population wise) is now spending over $1 BILLION on their sewers and wastewater plants. Jefferson County, AL (Birmingham area) has spent over $2 billion. Miami-Dade County has spent well over $1 billion, and the list goes on. Yet, when you ask these guys, "Hey, when was the last time you raised your water/sewer rates?" they look at you like a deer in the headlights.

All of that was said to say this....when Uncle Sam pays for it up front, you get "welfare" leeches even at the State and County/City levels, who look to Uncle Sam to CONTINUE paying for it, instead of just charging/taxing those who actually USE that local system. Add on top of that, the corruption in some of these cities, where the rates haven't been raised at all, and now you have decrease collection of fees and it's a "perfect storm" just waiting to happen. The City of Atlanta (before it got sued) had somewhere around a 30% non-payment rate for water/sewer bills. But, did they cut off the water for those "poor, opressed" people? Heck no! I guess we're more fortunate in the Southeast because growth is "newer" and the weather helps out too (freeze/thaw cycles can wreak havoc on bridges like this).

Posted by BA 2007-08-03 13:25|| 2007-08-03 13:25|| Front Page Top

#16 infrastructure / raising rate story at the local level: WA DOE has mandated water conservation. they deem the best way is through the pocketbook. our local water system had been a flat rate, but now meters are needed. rates were jacked to cover purchase and installation costs. your humber sevant has received many irate calls ( as treasurer i get to send the bills). these calls all came from those who did not get involved in rate / reason discussion at annual meeting. cake and eat it mentality.

Posted by USN, Ret. 2007-08-03 15:02|| 2007-08-03 15:02|| Front Page Top

#17 Frank G:

Phone your local City engineering department and ask them if work crews make daily check-list inspections of local bridges. I am speaking of a few minutes of eyeballing, and not high tech stress probes. When you see city vehicles with flashing lights, parked on a local bridge they are often working to standing orders issued by city engineers. Posters are putting the blame at the federal level. In that context, it stands to reason that locals would want to cover their asses. And that can be done with minimal resources.

Posted by McZoid 2007-08-03 15:15|| 2007-08-03 15:15|| Front Page Top

#18 Uncle Sam (the Feds) originally paid for it (or well over 50% of it), then left it to the States, Counties and Cities to build/maintain the rest of it.

And Uncle Sam paid for it by taxxing the crap out of American railroad system without ever providing for the massive "infrastructure" rebuild needed for the railroads, which for those of you scoring from home, was the logistical key for tapping into Americas manufacturing might during WWII.
Had Eisenhower not had a bad case of "Interstate Envy" after seeing the Autobahn, money would have been spent rebuilding Americas RR.

Posted by Capsu78 2007-08-03 15:24|| 2007-08-03 15:24|| Front Page Top

#19 Hello know what, you can kiss my ass too.

Posted by Icerigger">Icerigger 2007-08-03 17:24|| 2007-08-03 17:24|| Front Page Top

#20 Allan doesn't like Minnesota electing Keith Ellison.

Posted by JohnQC 2007-08-03 17:55|| 2007-08-03 17:55|| Front Page Top

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