Archived material Access restricted Article
Rantburg

Today's Front Page   View All of Sun 12/24/2006 View Sat 12/23/2006 View Fri 12/22/2006 View Thu 12/21/2006 View Wed 12/20/2006 View Tue 12/19/2006 View Mon 12/18/2006
1
2006-12-24 Olde Tyme Religion
Wiccan Lawsuit's Goal: Acceptance
Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.
Posted by .com 2006-12-24 11:46|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 As a Christian I have no problem with this - in fact, I support it fully. If they served our country and are buried with Veterans honors they should have whatever symbol represents their religious beliefs - they've earned it.

Wicca itself: I have numerous issues with, but they are all strictly theological. I have no concern about Wiccans and potentially divided loyalties as citizens. Islam, on the other hand...
Posted by xbalanke 2006-12-24 12:54||   2006-12-24 12:54|| Front Page Top

#2 Actually the suit is whether to put a pentacle on the tombstone. Given that this is also a symbol of devil worship, I can understand the government's position. Most religions have multiple symbols to identify themselves. PErhaps the Wiccans can select another symbol.

Al
Posted by frozen al">frozen al  2006-12-24 14:19||   2006-12-24 14:19|| Front Page Top

#3 My mom's a Wicaan (a Wiccan Republican, heh). The pentacle has the star pointed up, and symbolizes protection. Devil worship has the star pointed down. Perhaps people could pause from their wigging out long enough to notice the distinction.

However, suing people is definitely not the best path to acceptance.
Posted by exJAG 2006-12-24 14:54||   2006-12-24 14:54|| Front Page Top

#4 Point up vs point down is a pretty subtle distinction. Rather like noticing which way the arms on a swastika point. The whole idea of a symbol is quick recognition. Maybe they should use an ice cream cone. Everyone likes ice cream.

As for the other points (heh):
Preseving freedom - good
Suing for acceptance - not so good.
Posted by SteveS 2006-12-24 15:27||   2006-12-24 15:27|| Front Page Top

#5 SteveS, I'd considered that, but is the difference between a pentacle (point-up) vs. pentagram (point-down) any more subtle than the Star of David having six points instead of five? I'd say no, it's just more common.

At the same time, I consider something my dad said to me as a teenager, when I was in that spiked-purple-hair, nose-ring, black-leather phase: "shit, kid, if you don't want people staring at you, don't dress like that."

I thought, "fuck you." But he had a good point. :)
Posted by exJAG 2006-12-24 15:45||   2006-12-24 15:45|| Front Page Top

#6 Technically, it is the interior pentagon within the pentangle that should be pointing upwards in order to create the "good" pentagram. An inverted pentangle is what creates this. Wiccans use the un-inverted pentangle which actually could be construed as being engaged in devil worship by exacting individuals.

I have been to Wiccan covens and they are, for the most part, harmless. I just happen to view it as another massively layered pantheon that does not necessarily elucidate or articulate with great clarity about the human spirit itself. My own perception is that it represents a pleasing escape from more rigidly patriarchal forms of established religion while cloaking itself in remnants of historical references that give it an air of authenticity. One might as well believe in the the Greek or Roman mythologies for that matter.

That said, it is a relatively harmless practice and certainly not worthy of censure unlike another ideology that gets a lot more electronic ink around here. As to Wiccanism, the current "religion" that is being practiced was manufactured out of whole cloth using ancient symbology by Gerald Gardner back in the early to mid 1900s.

Wicca is a Neopagan religion and a religious movement found in various countries throughout the world. It was first popularised in 1954 by a British civil servant named Gerald Gardner[1] after the British Witchcraft Act was repealed. He claimed that the religion, of which he was an initiate, was a modern survival of an old witchcraft religion, which had existed in secret for hundreds of years, originating in the pre-Christian Paganism of Europe. Wicca is thus sometimes referred to as the Old Religion. The veracity of Gardner's claims cannot be independently proven, and it is thought that written Wiccan theology began to be compiled no earlier than the 1920s. Various related Wiccan traditions have since evolved, or been adapted from, the form established by Gardner, which came to be called Gardnerian Wicca. These other traditions of Wicca each have distinctive beliefs, rituals, and practices. Many traditions of Wicca remain secretive and require that members be initiated. There is also a movement of Eclectic or Solitary Wiccans who do not believe that any doctrine or traditional initiation is necessary in order to practice Wicca.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-12-24 16:22||   2006-12-24 16:22|| Front Page Top

#7 Old Time Religion

Chorus:

Give me that old time religion (3x)
And that's good enough for me


We will pray to Aphrodite
Even tho' she's rather flighty
And they say she wears no nightie
And that's good enough for me


We will pray with those Egyptians
Build pyramids to put our crypts in
Cover subways with inscriptions
And that's good enough for me


O-old Odin we will follow
And in fighting we will wallow
Til we wind up in Valhalla
And that's good enough for me


Let me follow dear old Buddha
For there is nobody cuter
He comes in plaster, wood or pewter
And that's good enough for me


We will pray with Zarathustra
Pray just like we useta
I'm a Zarathustra booster
And that's good enough for me


We will pray with those old Druids
They drink fermented fluids
Waltzing naked thru the woo-ids
And that's good enough for me


Hare Krishna gets a laugh on
When he sees me dressed in saffron
With my hair that's only half on
And that's good enough for me


I'll arise at early morning
When the sun gives me the warning
That the solar age is dawning
And that's good enough for me
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-12-24 16:43||   2006-12-24 16:43|| Front Page Top

#8 Sounds about right to me, Zen. But I'm not about to lecture my mom about her spirtuality. She's still finding herself after a brutal divorce and a horrible car accident, and nature makes her feel better. That's the result I want, and I'm not real particular about how she gets there.

I agree that Wicca is flaky, but lots of women in her demographic have turned to Wicca because it gives them a framework within which to heal from serious emotional trauma. It's easy to make fun of, until it's your own mother. Wiccans have their reasons, and Jesus isn't always the answer.

I wear the pentacle she gave me, beause it's meaningful to her. Occasionally I remind her of the Old Testament justice that's sure to be meted out, and that Muslims slaughter pagans first. She'll come around -- it just takes time.

Posted by exJAG 2006-12-24 17:03||   2006-12-24 17:03|| Front Page Top

#9 Nice work there, ex-JAG, in recovering from the spiked hair phase.
Posted by mac 2006-12-24 17:07||   2006-12-24 17:07|| Front Page Top

#10 Aw, mac, the spike-haired kid is still in there. I just traded in the black eyeliner and hairspray for a law degree and guns, LOL. ;)
Posted by exJAG 2006-12-24 17:13||   2006-12-24 17:13|| Front Page Top

#11 I agree that Wicca is flaky, but lots of women in her demographic have turned to Wicca because it gives them a framework within which to heal from serious emotional trauma. It's easy to make fun of, until it's your own mother. Wiccans have their reasons, and Jesus isn't always the answer.

I'm not so much making fun of Wiccanism as pointing out how it, often as not, merely exchanges one elaborate set of rituals for another. My own feeling is that the human spirit is of such unusual depth and clarity that it doesn't take much window dressing to really clutter up the screens. Another term for this is "spiritual materialism", or the inability to relenquish entrenched modes of worship and ritual.

That cluttering effect of excessive nomenclature and process can misdirect or divert focus upon what really matters, which is simple goodness, integrity and a sense of honor.

If Wiccanism is helping your mother recover from emotional and physical trauma, more power to her. We each of us must find our own path towards human perfection and peaceful community.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-12-24 17:22||   2006-12-24 17:22|| Front Page Top

#12 If a Wiccan wins national office, what do they swear on?
Posted by JohnQC 2006-12-24 19:17||   2006-12-24 19:17|| Front Page Top

#13 ask Icerigger
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2006-12-24 19:19||   2006-12-24 19:19|| Front Page Top

#14 I really don't have much respect for wiccans, but what the heck. They're Americans, too, and should have whatever they want if they make the ultimate sacrifice for the nation. Heck, the upside-down pentacle types are very lovable, but I'd still trust one them over a crescent.
Posted by Jackal">Jackal  2006-12-24 20:22|| http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]">[http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]  2006-12-24 20:22|| Front Page Top

#15 Jackal, the islamic crescent is actually stylized horns.
Posted by twobyfour 2006-12-24 20:44||   2006-12-24 20:44|| Front Page Top

#16 As to Wiccanism, the current "religion" that is being practiced was manufactured out of whole cloth using ancient symbology by Gerald Gardner back in the early to mid 1900s.

For the sake of intellectual honesty, the exact same thing can be said for the Hare Krishna sect cult. This group was started with the exclusive purpose of taking young acolytes (or more mature fools), absorbing any material assets they might have, feeding them incredibly cheap and questionably nutritious vegetarian fare in order to have them work for free selling heavily marked up crappy quality incense and dubious over priced quasi-religious tomes at airports or on street corners while the more attractive recruits were directed into the arms of higher-ups and their not-so-tender mercies.

It was only after decades of operation that the Krishnas received any sort of validating affiliation with another more reputable Hindu organization.
Posted by Zenster">Zenster  2006-12-24 21:02||   2006-12-24 21:02|| Front Page Top

23:54 Zenster
23:47 ed
23:43 Zenster
23:40 ed
23:35 Mike
23:35 trailing wife
23:33 Zenster
23:22 CrazyFool
23:20 CrazyFool
23:16 Jesing Ebbease3087
23:04 Grunter
23:02 Anguper Hupomosing9418
22:55 Anguper Hupomosing9418
22:51 Fred
22:41 Zenster
22:24 Ptah
22:11 RWV
21:50 .com
21:45 Zenster
21:40 Zenster
21:36 Eric Jablow
21:34 Zenster
21:21 Grunter
21:17 exJAG









Paypal:
Google
Search WWW Search rantburg.com