Article

2006-07-05 Britain

Moderate Muslim Shocked, by his Less Moderate Brothers

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by 11A5S 2006-07-05 01:17|| || Front Page|| [5 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 The Muslims of Beeston and other such areas are retreating, not engaging.

The muslims of Beeston come from Pakistan, Bangladesh (formerly East Pakistan) and Pakistani Kashmir.

These are areas of the Indian subcontinent that were separated from the rest of British India in order to create a muslim "land of the pure" where muslims could live apart from other faiths.

Is it any wonder that people from this area do not wish to live with other faiths? That they distrust them? That they hate them?

To understand this behavior in Beeston, one has to go back in history and study the real motivations behind the partition of India.

Posted by john 2006-07-05 07:12|| 2006-07-05 07:12|| Front Page Top

#2 Well said John, and a very good article BTW - props to the writer.

Posted by phil_b">phil_b 2006-07-05 08:09|| http://autonomousoperation.blogspot.com/]">[http://autonomousoperation.blogspot.com/] 2006-07-05 08:09|| Front Page Top

#3 "Is it any wonder that people from this area do not wish to live with other faiths"

But that, of course, begs the question...why did they move to GB? The answer of course is that they moved to CONQUER the infidel.

Lock & load...your mileage may vary.

Posted by AlanC">AlanC 2006-07-05 08:51|| 2006-07-05 08:51|| Front Page Top

#4 There were never muzzie bombers, the US/UK conspiracy has made that up, but praise the bombers for their martyrdom.
Which is it again ?
Phalking lunatics.

Posted by wxjames 2006-07-05 11:47|| 2006-07-05 11:47|| Front Page Top

#5 Always try to boom where you're planted...

Posted by James">James 2006-07-05 13:26|| http://idontknowbut.blogspot.com]">[http://idontknowbut.blogspot.com] 2006-07-05 13:26|| Front Page Top

#6 Oh, those kids, the blow up so quickly these days. I am so freakin' tired of all the muzzie conspiracy theory/black helicopter navel gazing that it makes me sick. I'm almost to the point of just sealing them off, quartine the lot of them and let them rust from the inside out.

Posted by BA 2006-07-05 13:57|| 2006-07-05 13:57|| Front Page Top

#7 Very good read.
The bit about mosques being more than religious buildings like churches, to be actually social places for muslims to meet and organizing the community in an organic way is very revealing; so is the confession about the true nature of the koran/jihad, far from the pc crap for the outsiders (which readily feed it to themselves, too).

It's all a matter of identity, and loyalty, and sense of belonging : do they feel themselves british/french/german/... or do they feel themselves first "muslim" as opposed to non-believers, "Us vs Them" (internal strife between turban color or country of origin being second to that)...?
I think the answer is obvious, as pointed out by the quite interesting comment by the ever well-knowledgeable John (sucking noises).

Posted by anonymous5089 2006-07-05 14:18|| 2006-07-05 14:18|| Front Page Top

#8 There are some unique ways that Islam has developed in the Indian subcontinent.

One is the sheer number of Fatwas devoted to the presence of the Kuffar and how a muslim must relate to them - example: is a muslim still clean if he sees a dirty kaffir hindoo after he does his ritual ablutions (an actual question asked of the imams).

One maulana wrote at partition that it was a takleef (imposition) for a good muslim to come across hindus on the way to mosque.

These are not concerns of the typical arab, who is a majority in his country. It is the subcontinental muslim that has come up with rules dealing with seclusion from the dirty Kuffars whom one must live among. These were developed in India and now spread to other communities in the west, where a similar condition of minority life is found.

It was Maulana Madudi who wrote that muslims must dress demonstrably different from his neighbors, that muslim dress is a political act.
He was from India but greatly influenced the muslim brotherhood of Egypt.

It was in India that the first stirrings of muslim angst over the loss of muslim power occured.
Previously, they could always have called upon some islamic conqueror from outside the subcontinent to reimpose islam when it fell into danger as the Sikh and Hindu kingdoms attacked.

Here is the author William Dalrymple on the 1847 Sepoy mutiny in India against British rule:
Later they stood in Chandni Chowk, the main street of Old Delhi, and asked people: "Brothers: are you with those of the faith?" British men who had converted to Islamand there were a surprising number of those in Delhiwere not hurt; but Indians who had converted to Christianity were cut down immediately. It is highly significant that the Urdu sources usually refer to the British not as angrez (the English) or as goras (Whites) or even firangis but instead almost always as kafirs (infidels) and nasrani (Christians).
Although the great majority of the sepoys were Hindus, in Delhi a flag of jihad was raised in the principal mosque, and many of the insurgents described themselves as mujahideen, ghazis and jihadis. Indeed, by the end of the siege, after a significant proportion of the sepoys had melted away, unpaid, hungry and dispirited, the proportion of jihadis in Delhi grew to be about a quarter of the total fighting force, and included a regiment of "suicide ghazis" from Gwalior who had vowed never to eat again and to fight until they met death"for those who have come to die have no need for food". One of the causes of unrest, according to one Delhi source, was that "the British had closed the madrasas".

When the rebellion was crushed, the muslims set up the Deoband madrassa (the wellspring of the present day Taliban).
Islamism - as advocated by Madudi, arose from this loss of power when the British destroyed the Moghul empire. Later the impending end of British rule and the coming to power of the hindu majority drove it into a frenzy The dismantling of the Ottoman empire led to the caliphate movement and directly to partition.

This is the Pakistani author Ayaz Amir:
Islam was not in danger in pre-1947 India. Indeed, considering the sectarian violence and religious bigotry we face today, it was in better health then. Nor was democracy the issue because even if partition had not happened, India was getting democracy once the British left. The Indian Independence Act promised that.

So what was the compelling reason for the Muslims to insist on a separate homeland especially when there was no going around the uncomfortable fact that, no matter how generously the frontiers of the new state were drawn, an uncomfortably large number of Muslims would remain in India?

The purpose of Pakistan, transcending anything to do with safeguarding Islam or promoting democracy, was to create conditions for the Muslims of India, or those who found themselves in the new state, to recreate the days of their lost glory.

The removal of takleef of kuffar presence, the recreation of lost glory, the reimposition of muslim political rule were the driving forces of partition.

The Beeston inhabitants have the mindset of partition, of islamism. They use the old rules they developed to deal with the Kufr majority.
They wish the material benefits of the country the live in, but hate the inhabitants. It is takleef to live amonst the english.

Anyone thinking that these immigrants from West and East Pakistan can be integrated is severly delusional.

Posted by john 2006-07-05 14:23|| 2006-07-05 14:23|| Front Page Top

#9 Very enlightening, thanks.

Posted by anonymous5089 2006-07-05 14:27|| 2006-07-05 14:27|| Front Page Top

#10 What many commentators in the media forget is that the majority of muslims are not arabs.

The majority live in the Indian subcontinent and they have their own bodies of islamic law.

Wahabism and saudi money is not the only driver of islamic terror. One must also take into account the deobandis from the subcontinent, especially since it is this tradition that developed amongst a majority of unbelievers, that sought to impose muslim power over the Kurf majority.

Posted by john 2006-07-05 14:37|| 2006-07-05 14:37|| Front Page Top

#11 But that, of course, begs the question...why did they move to GB? The answer of course is that they moved to CONQUER the infidel.

They moved to gain the material advantages that life in the UK afforded.
There is a recognition that they are the minority, and the old habits come into play --- first the demand for recognition of cultural rights - dress, language, use of sharia for peronal law - marriages, divorce etc.
Then demands for greater sharia. Attempts to paint the national courts as biased. Calls for muslim insitutions. There will be a call for separate electorates, to give "oppressed" muslims a share of political power (they even convinced Winston Churchill with that one) - a guaranteed percentage of seats in the parliament. They will demand local autonomy. Bit by bit they attempt to gain greater and greater power.

Posted by john 2006-07-05 16:07|| 2006-07-05 16:07|| Front Page Top

23:58 HTML Guy
23:53 Elmash Phaitch4207
23:48 Elmash Phaitch4207
23:39 Rafael
23:36 Rafael
23:35 Fur Trapper
23:28 Elmash Phaitch4207
23:20 Rafael
23:16 Anonymoose
23:16 Jomoter Jaing8740
23:08 Kratos
23:02 Oldspook
23:01 Oldspook
22:42 Warthog
22:35 Odysseus
22:29 Slaitch Snineth2903
22:25 Barbara Skolaut
22:25 AlmostAnonymous5839
22:24 Brett
22:20 AlmostAnonymous5839
22:19 Shieldwolf
22:18 bombay
22:14 AlmostAnonymous5839
22:14 Shieldwolf