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2005-12-02 Israel-Palestine-Jordan

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Posted by Steve White 2005-12-02 00:04|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Me personally? Well I love the goyim. Even the meshuganeh ones.

Posted by Rabinovitz 2005-12-02 00:47|| 2005-12-02 00:47|| Front Page Top

#2 Iff the Lefties were telling the truth and were of no threat to the mainstream then why, as in a recently reported case, does a Man have to, by court order, pay child support for the sake of a child which two Lesbians had promised or otherwise obligated themselves to each other to care for as iff a genuine, albeit female and gender-limited, Husband and Wife. Iff these women wanted the sanctity of traditional "marriage", as well as proclaim "equal rights" and "women's rights", and the man is only a sperm donor but not and never meant or intended to be any sort of parent or have any involvement with the lesbians' "child", THEN WHY ISN'T THE LESBIAN PERSONAGE WHOM LEFT NOT BEING FORCED BY THE COURTS TO PAY ANY FORM OF CHILD SUPPORT JUST BECAUSE AS A WOMAN SHE BY NATUR GENDER CAN'T PRODUCE SPERMAZOA. The reality is Lefties will inevitably break and demand andor take more than what they'd promised or agreed to - LEFTISM IS BY HISTORY ABOUT ANTI-DEMOCRATIC, ANTI-COMPROMISE, DISHONORABLE AND SELFISH POWER, CONTROL, AND DOMINATION OVER ANYONE AND EVERYONE, THE SELFISH POWER-MANIC FEW OVER THE GOODLY MANY. AND HIDING BEHIND A "FEW GOOD MEN" DOESN'T ALLEVIATE OR REMOVE THEIR GENERAL THREAT. The WOT for America's enemies is about getting or forcing America to become as poor and bedraggled as themselves, for the "Have Mores" to devolve and HAVE NOTHING, for America to come down from the surreal heights, NOT FOR THE FAILED AND FAILING SOCIALISTS TO REFORM ANDOR SHARE POWER. The Lefties believe they'll win because they lie to everyone, even their own.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2005-12-02 01:06|| 2005-12-02 01:06|| Front Page Top

#3 The ADL is an advocacy group. Like all advocacy groups, when there aren't any legitimate grievances or impending dangers, they have to invent ones. Perhaps the ADL's funding drives are stalling up on the Upper West Side. Maybe they're freightened and tired of combatting the implaccable overwhelming hatred of the Islamicists and need a softer target. Maybe, as predominently North Easterners, they still harbor latent fear and suspicions of their compatriots in the heartland. As we all know, in identity politics, the name of the game is to claim the title of poor, oppressed "vicitm." The ADL and other American Jewish groups can no longer compete with most other minorities in this category, the browner, poorer and much put-upon Muslims in particular, so there's not much to be gained in going after Palestinian or other groups promoting anti-Semitism. It's probably a combination of all of these.

Whatever it is, it's danged stupid. This essay was stern but ever so polite. I wouldn't have been so civil. Of course I wouldn't expect much better from the ADL, but of the hundreds regular folk I know who also happen to be urbanite Jews, I think it's a real tragedy that most cannot bear to look at the giant cauldron of violent hatred boiling in the Islamic world. Sometimes I can understand the urge to find a more manageable target to criticize (American Evangelicals are open to reason, after all, and even when they're not, they're not likely to blow up your wedding party). But ultimately this is cowardice and self-defeating behavior.

Posted by Monsieur Moonbat 2005-12-02 01:28|| 2005-12-02 01:28|| Front Page Top

#4 AMEN dittos to all three comments.

Posted by meshuganeh me 2005-12-02 01:34|| 2005-12-02 01:34|| Front Page Top

#5 As a member of a main stream Protestant Church and been to Jewish Services....
Half the texts, format of the service, memes and such are pretty much the same. Even to the point of standing and sitting at certain points. The Jewish service tends to be more informal and longer. This is more like the evangelicals. Of course the big difference is the New Testament and its message and directional change. That said either party can recognize each others service.

When people push division they miss the common ground.

Posted by 3dc 2005-12-02 02:27|| 2005-12-02 02:27|| Front Page Top

#6 The Jewish community should heed this man's words. The groups Foxman attacks in many cases hold Jewish/Israeli welfare as a higher priority than many secular Jews. A lot of them to the point of being willing to fight for Israel, something that a considerable number of Israeli haredim would not do.

Posted by mac 2005-12-02 05:58|| 2005-12-02 05:58|| Front Page Top

#7 sigh.

I found this article both true and offensive on many levels.

This is true:
These Christians pray regularly for the well-being of Israel and the Jewish people; they politically support our right to live in peace and security, including lobbying Congress to support us; and they even raise considerable funds to help Jews in distress.

and this in spite of being dismissed as sub-human by both the Jewish and the liberal community for as long as I've been around.

I found the wording These Christians ie: implying only "Evangelical Christians" to be offensive. While it is true that the Protestant, (including the Episcopalian, Methodist, Presbyterian) chuches have a policy of divesting in Israel, this is relatively new and a result of the fact that they have been overtaken by types that resemble the Archbishiop of Canterbury. This is a recent development and doesn't represent the majority view of those who may continue to attend those churches.

As a Christian, I found this comment extraordinarily offensive, so much so that I'm not even going to comment on it. Today evangelicals represent the greatest source of political support for Israel in the US. Even if many Jews feel that the evangelical stance on Israel is to "the right" of what they would support, that in no way invalidates the enormous benefits this support provides to Israel.

Ok..I said that I wouldn't comment, but I will say that Christians, and not just evangelical Christians don't have the same "usefullness requirement" in order to provide support to good people of ANY RELIGION ...or for that matter.. for ANYONE. The basis of Christianity is that the church is full of sinners - that we are all sinners and that we can all be saved through the grace of God. You need not be useful to a cause to receive grace. (shakes head in disgust)

As someone whose extended family includes Christians, Muslims, Jews, Athiests, Agnostics, and (sort of) Buddhists I can say that I thought this part of the article "gets it": However, the truth is that while evangelicals are indeed a growing group representing up to 60 million adherents, like Jews they are not the monolith their critics seek to portray. They incorporate a wide variety of diverse opinions, some of which would undoubtedly be regarded as an anathema to Jews. But the vast majority, in addition to being law-abiding citizens, are simply seeking to promote their values - including those that mirror the Judeo-Christian heritage.

Just as an aside, those of you who don't grasp Christianity here's a clue... The church is full of sinners..who acknowledge that fact and seek redemption in much the same way that Alcoholics Anonymous is full of drinkers, Weight Watchers is full of overweight people and your local Gym is full of people both fit and overweight - seeking to improve themselves.

/rant over

Posted by 2b 2005-12-02 06:45|| 2005-12-02 06:45|| Front Page Top

#8 One article I read on Foxman's comments pointed out that the ADL HQ is protected by elaborate security measures -- metal detectors, double security doors, etc -- due to threats from Islamists. Yet they find it necessary to rail about the "dangers" from Christians...

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-12-02 07:58|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-12-02 07:58|| Front Page Top

#9 The author of the article, Isi Leibler, makes good points as do the Rantburg commentators.

However, some may be under the misapprehension that the ADL ignores the problem of anti Semitism, violence worship and bloodthirstiness in Islam. The ADL hasn't ignored that. It has tried to combat it using the techniques used to combat anti Semitism and racism in the US (basically by pro pluralism information). The problem is these techniques haven't worked. They are slowing moving to a more 'let's shine more light on the hatred within Islam' (actually I think hatred-of-the-other is a core competancy of Islam) but they haven't yet transitioned from the 'pro pluralism' position. It will take time.

Posted by mhw 2005-12-02 08:27|| 2005-12-02 08:27|| Front Page Top

#10 "As though he were paraphrasing an outburst by anti-Semites..."

This article just wouldn't be complete without that line.

Posted by DepotGuy 2005-12-02 10:14|| 2005-12-02 10:14|| Front Page Top

#11 I'm a hardline Athiest, and also a strong supporter of Israel.

The overwhelming (in America) jewish support of leftwing appeasers of antisemitism (aka kill the jews) frankly baffles me.

Posted by phil_b">phil_b 2005-12-02 10:30|| 2005-12-02 10:30|| Front Page Top

#12 phil

You make a good point. The anti-Israel feelings of many in the reform movement as well as the secular Jews is remarkable. They seem almost oblivious to the fact of Islamofascism.

It seems to me that conservative and orthodox jews have a problem recognizing Islamofascism for what it is because the source is the holy islamic texts themselves and conservative and orthodox jews have an instinct for associating holiness and goodness. But this instinct would not effect the reform and secular jews. However, as you point out, this theory is completely contrary to the observations.

Posted by mhw 2005-12-02 11:19|| 2005-12-02 11:19|| Front Page Top

#13 Maybe they're freightened and tired of combatting the implaccable overwhelming hatred of the Islamicists and need a softer target.

Exactly. In fact, this is a problem for the left in general. It's like the police forces in certain towns that are good at issuing parking tickets, but who couldn't solve a violent crime if their own lives depended on it.

Posted by Jamble Angins1511 2005-12-02 11:32|| 2005-12-02 11:32|| Front Page Top

#14 Evangelical support of Israel is not entirely selfless: The last promise God made to the entire world was in Genesis 12, when he told Abram that He (God) would bless those who blessed him (Abram). There is no need for a Jew to reward a Gentile for Good works, for it is God himself who provides the reward, apart from the Jew's ability or inability to give that reward.

Both Christianity and Judaism are not monolithic: there are sections that take their scriptures seriously as pronouncements from God that must be heeded and obeyed (right), and there are secions that impose a "liberal" interpretation in order to clothe their own agenda in religious terms (left). This has nothing to do with politics: its a matter of "I will spin things my way to get my way", or "There is an objective reality that I must heed and to which I must conform." The left in Judaism and the left in Christianity will find common cause, and so will the right in Judaism and the Right in Christianity.

Foxman is a member of the Left, and has captured the ADL to serve leftist purposes: an alliance between the Christian Right and the Jewish Right is both his nightmare and the American Left's, and so he's cementing his relationship with the American Left by firing on the Christian Right.

The ADL, for all its works and talk, is what we in Christianity would classify as a "parachurch" (para synagogue?) organizaton. The New Testament clearly designates the church as the locus of religious authority and legitimacy, and a parachurch organization is judged by how well they support the local church as well as their particular Christian mission. Thus, it is the church that judges the parachurch, not the other way around, and Evangelical parachurch organizations will be the first to tell you that. The Charismatic parachurch orgs are even more fanatical about this, having been burned with the Jimmy Bakker/PTL scandal that they felt was caused by a lack of accountability to a larger body that derives its authority by being a congregation.

On the other hand, leftists, not being in the seat of power, will work to create alternate power structures and work for the illusion of authority and legitimacy: see "Christian" "Peacemakers". The ADL is the Jewish version of the evangelical parachurch organization, trying to get a legitimacy that is superior to the Synagogue.

Posted by Ptah">Ptah 2005-12-02 12:24|| http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]">[http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2005-12-02 12:24|| Front Page Top

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