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2005-05-08 Home Front: WoT

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Posted by Steve White 2005-05-08 12:37:58 AM|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Major drawbacks to the methods recommended. It assumes a POW, not an irregular. It assumes a rational opponent, not an islamic fundamentalist. It assumes a modern out look on life, not a 9th century one.

The "story" these soldiers want to tell is seething hatred and the destruction of the infidel, the subjugation of the dhimmi.

(unlike the uninformed conscripts these tactics are aimed at, these guys are highly indoctrinated volunteers)

Problems unsolved by the Moran methodology:

1) time sensitivity of the intel: thsi procedure takes time. And in many cases, time is not on our side (ex: car bombings, leadershi target locations).

2) Utility of the information is hard to gauge - they can simply feed you what they want. The Terrs deveop "capture" stories to be used in these conditions.

3) Visceral hatred of the sort the Muslims have is makes them immune to the "nice guy7" strategy. These peopel believe us to be evil - and if we are bing nice its because Allah is forcing us to, or else we are laying a trap for the true beleiver. These guys simply will not bind in a fashion described in the article.

In sum - wrong war, wrong opponent and wrong types of info for these sorts of techniques for anything other than peripheral players. Perhpas at the edges this wil help. But I dont expect much.

fyi - link:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200506/budiansky

Posted by OldSpook 2005-05-08 03:25|| 2005-05-08 03:25|| Front Page Top

#2 OS, right you are, on all counts.

Posted by Sobiesky 2005-05-08 04:33|| 2005-05-08 04:33|| Front Page Top

#3 We have to remember that the standard Japanese soldier was supposed to suicide to avoid capture so the people who surrendered were the soft ones (or they had been knocked unconscious, and then they tried to suicide when dicovering they were prisonners) and the psychic damage for having broken bushido made them easy targets.

What works against conscripts doesn't necessarily work against volunteers who have a genocidical hate against you.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2005-05-08 08:23|| 2005-05-08 08:23|| Front Page Top

#4 The MSM/LLL cabal just keeps searching for the best apology they can find for how awful we are as modern day Americans. It is really beyond their egos and liberal Eastern Establishment Elite education to understand we are at war for our very survival as a civilization. They just keep hoping and wishing that there is a better more humane way to convince these poor backward people that we mean them no harm.

Posted by Jack is Back!">Jack is Back! 2005-05-08 08:52|| 2005-05-08 08:52|| Front Page Top

#5 We,the western world, guage humane treatment of people by the way societys treat their women. It's a simple premis that ever the liberals agree to. I reccommend we allow the interogators to treat them just as their society allows them to threat their women. So if you think we are tough on them just ask an Afghan woman what techniques her husband uses on her and lets be fare about this.

Posted by 49pan 2005-05-08 09:54|| 2005-05-08 09:54|| Front Page Top

#6 OS, thanks for the comment, I posted this because I figured you'd weigh in. I'm certainly no expert in interrogation, intel, military matters (in fact, not much of anything!). I found the article interesting because it offers a contrast between what worked in WWII and what we're faced with today. The article's basic mistake is, as you noted, that the averaged Japanese soldier in WWII isn't at all, psychologically speaking, like the average jihadi today.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2005-05-08 14:05|| 2005-05-08 14:05|| Front Page Top

#7 Also working in to the equation was that a Japaneese soldier who was captured was extrememly likely to talk simply because he considered himself dead and no face was left to be lost.

Posted by Shipman 2005-05-08 17:20|| 2005-05-08 17:20|| Front Page Top

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