Article

2005-02-06 Europe

US may have been involved in rendition of Egyptian from Italy to Egypt

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Posted by Dan Darling 2005-02-06 12:18:03 AM|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 They were the lucky ones. The Egyptians only tenderized them. Next time these clowns won't be allowed back. Or maybe they were allowed back to let the others know what happens to people who pal around with al Q's.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2005-02-06 12:25:39 AM|| 2005-02-06 12:25:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 ...the wild coho that roared up the streams following the long-awaited post-Christmas rains have been busily spawning, females digging nests and bright red males muscling each other out of the way, wrestling and biting to be the first one up to fertilize the eggs...

We're just helping them return to the spawning grounds. Rendition is very Green and Eco-Friendly. Hey, it's just the kind of people we are - no thanks necessary. You're welcome.

Posted by .com 2005-02-06 12:37:26 AM|| 2005-02-06 12:37:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 US may have been involved in rendition of Egyptian from Italy to Egypt

Stop ... stop, you're ripping my heart out! Boy howdy, is this ever going to keep me awake during the long winter nights.

Posted by Zenster 2005-02-06 12:54:24 AM|| 2005-02-06 12:54:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Hang on....so now were not allowed to send em back to their sh*thole of origin and subjected to the local form of Justice? But to do otherwize, wouldn't we be disregarding the will of the locals? I mean, weren't all those people against the war saying that we shouldn't get involved in local business? So why should we project our human rights values on foreign countries in this circumstance?

Posted by Mark E. 2005-02-06 11:05:37 AM|| 2005-02-06 11:05:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 While I don't disagree with repatriating the bad guyz to their countries of origin -- I don't see why they should be entitled to demand questioning by civilized torturers -- the issue is removing them from a third country against the express will of that third country. Especially an ally.

Posted by trailing wife 2005-02-06 1:19:06 PM|| 2005-02-06 1:19:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Mark E., how would you feel if it were the Mukhabarat kidnapping Kurds who had moved here?

Not saying the situations are totally parallel, but it does give me pause ....

Posted by too true 2005-02-06 1:30:01 PM|| 2005-02-06 1:30:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Read the article. He only knows that the people who kidnapped him were "western people" -- possibly even Italian. All else is speculation. If the CIA is involved and doing its job properly, that's all that will ever be known.

Not that I will shed any tears for an Islamic militant Egyptian dissident being shipped "home".

Posted by Tom 2005-02-06 2:02:33 PM|| 2005-02-06 2:02:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 ...how would you feel if it were the Mukhabarat kidnapping Kurds who had moved here?

IMNSHO - You'd never hear about it. Because it would never 'make the news'.

Posted by Pappy 2005-02-06 3:47:09 PM|| 2005-02-06 3:47:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Pappy - Agreed. And my first impulse when I read a story like this is "Great! We got one!"

But then I think about the fact that we have maybe 10-20 years' worth of work to do to change things so that the Islamofascists and their successors die away. And I very much want us, when it is over, not to have lost some of the characteristics that make America what it is.

After WWII, people got on with their lives and most of them coped fine with e.g. nuking the Japanese. That's because the enemy was clearly identified and the connection between those cities and the willingness of Japanese forces to continue to fight was clear.

It's not so clear in this GWOT. So we will have to live with a lot of moral ambiguity. But we should be clear that that is what it is.

Posted by too true 2005-02-06 4:24:09 PM|| 2005-02-06 4:24:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Good point, Tom. I didn't read closely enough to note that it is only suspected that the CIA was involved. Nonetheless, unless it is an Eichman type case, where the egregiously guilty are being sheltered, I would hope we avoid kidnapping from allies.

Posted by trailing wife 2005-02-06 4:29:46 PM|| 2005-02-06 4:29:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 unless the allies, while publicly bitching, tacitly approve and encourage the "repatriation"?

Posted by Frank G 2005-02-06 4:35:27 PM|| 2005-02-06 4:35:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Italian Police not the Italian Foreign ministry are ivestigating. Leftist prosecutors possibly trying to beat up on the US and the elected Government of Italy may be the actual story. It well could have been Italian state security personnel who handed him over to Egypt.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2005-02-06 5:00:30 PM|| [http://www.slhess.com] 2005-02-06 5:00:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 "how would you feel if it were the Mukhabarat kidnapping Kurds who had moved here?"

Well, don't you think that they would do that if they could? So how do I feel about it? I think we should win.

And wouldn't a better analogy be that some experts from one country, help apprehend an international criminal wanted in a second country, found plotting in a third country, and assist in sending the criminal back to the second country, where they are wanted? Which is what is alleged to have happened (at worst). Are our intelligence services allowed to operate overseas or not?

Moreover, don't you think that you just equated morally the US intelligence services and the Iranian ones?

Posted by Mark E. 2005-02-06 9:00:44 PM|| 2005-02-06 9:00:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Nope. But neither do I think we are immune from descending farther down the moral scale than we might like.

There's rather a big difference between gathering information and kidnapping people to be tortured. Now, I'm not saying we were involved or even that this guy was in fact tortured. Nor am I saying we never should engage in dirty ops.

I AM saying that when we do it, it costs us more than might be obvious. And if you don't think that's true, go read some of the work on just war theory and the bombing of Hiroshima -- and I do mean the just war theory that is on our side.

I have.

Posted by too true 2005-02-06 9:05:46 PM|| 2005-02-06 9:05:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Well, the fact that he was breathing to give an interview to a UK paper indicates he was not given the real treament. In the real deal, disappeared is the operative term. This is as much Islamic SOP (I was tortured!) as anything else. It's odd that everyone is buying into the pure speculation as to who did what. The paper even says that "the Italians are thought to be investigating claims" -- that's weaker than a 3-pass tea bag. Let's wait for something of substance, not just another Islamotwit being iconized by a UK paper.

Regards.

Posted by .com 2005-02-06 9:14:22 PM|| 2005-02-06 9:14:22 PM|| Front Page Top

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