Article

2004-11-24 International-UN-NGOs

Rightwing US Group Presses for UN Expulsion

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Posted by Fred 2004-11-24 11:31:22 PM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 My offthewall prediction for 2005 is a UN accredited diplomat gets caught trying to smuggle WMD into the USA. In response the USA 'temporarily' withdraws all UN accreditations and instigates its own system. The UN refuses to comply with new system and leaves temporarily. Said situation becomes permanent.

Posted by phil_b 2004-11-24 1:40:13 AM|| 2004-11-24 1:40:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 http://www.moveamericaforward.org/

Get over there and sign the petition!

Posted by JerseyMike 2004-11-24 6:56:30 AM|| 2004-11-24 6:56:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 The UN is helping the US in applying its policies worldwide. short sided wackos are not to comment

Posted by Goher 2004-11-24 6:57:54 AM|| 2004-11-24 6:57:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 You are a fool if you believe that Goher, are you on the payroll? afraid the gravy train is going to derail?

Posted by JerseyMike 2004-11-24 7:09:00 AM|| 2004-11-24 7:09:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 "Short sided wackos"? Do you mean "Supply side wackos"?

For that matter, what the hell is a "former Republican party member"? Kaloogian seems to be the Republican equivalent of Al Sharpton - an unelectable if entertaining media-clown who's more useful as a scarecrow for the other side than in advancing the interests of his own side - but I can't find any indication that he's left the party.

My best guess is that a semi-literate French reporter or editor came across a description of him as a "former Republican state legislator" and mangled that into "former Republican party member".

Posted by Mitch H. 2004-11-24 8:10:07 AM|| [http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2004-11-24 8:10:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Since when,Goher?

Posted by raptor 2004-11-24 8:20:35 AM|| 2004-11-24 8:20:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Done,JM.

Posted by raptor 2004-11-24 8:32:06 AM|| 2004-11-24 8:32:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 since when? In afghanistan, where they helped with elections, original formation of Karzai govt, et al, in the Balkans, in Cambodia and East Timor. That much of this work has been INCOMPETENT, or hindered by CORRUPTION, or as in Iraq, by COWARDICE and opposisition from CERTAIN members of the UNSC, does NOT mean that they havent to SOME extent been helping - and in a few instance (im thinking East Timor here) been relatively competent at doing so. Which is not to mention the technical agencies, which are head and shoulders ABOVE the political side of the UN. Whether this is worth the BS that comes out of the UN Gen Assembly, and in some instance the UNSC is a matter which can be debated. All in all I think its pretty clear we're better off IN, using it where we can, and restraining it where we need to, than being outside of it.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-11-24 8:59:59 AM|| 2004-11-24 8:59:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#9
This reminds me of Patrick Buchanan's presidential campaign. As I recall, he received one-third of one percent of the vote.
.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-11-24 9:16:21 AM|| 2004-11-24 9:16:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 BS, LH, BS.

The UN is a waste of money, brains, and time. The "technical" agencies are "head and shoulders" above the rest of the UN only in that they are slightly less corrupt. Anytime you can point to a success in which the UN has been involved, the success has been DESPITE the UN, not BECAUSE of it.

The entire world would be better off without the UN, if only because it would end the disastrous fiction that all the world's governments are equal in legitimacy.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-11-24 9:22:53 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2004-11-24 9:22:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Interesting observations on membership by someone who claims to be a profesional.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-11-24 9:25:18 AM|| 2004-11-24 9:25:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#12
Re #10 (Robert Crawford): it would end the disastrous fiction that all the world's governments are equal

All the countries in the UN aren't equal. Only a few belong permanently to the Security Council and can veto resolutions.
.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-11-24 9:28:21 AM|| 2004-11-24 9:28:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Mike, you left a word off what I said. Leaving off that word changed the meaning, and changed it quite drastically.

My meaning was clear in the original statement. Yet you decided to build a strawman by misquoting me. WTF?

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-11-24 9:34:55 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2004-11-24 9:34:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#14
Re #10 (Robert Crawford): it would end the disastrous fiction that all the world's governments are equal in legitimacy

All the countries in the UN aren't equal in legitimacy. Only a few belong permanently to the Security Council and can veto resolutions.
.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-11-24 9:42:42 AM|| 2004-11-24 9:42:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Your amended post makes no sense.

Which isn't surprising; you cannot defend the idea that Mugabe's government is as legitimate as Howard's, yet both are members of the General Assembly and given equal standing in the UN.

But why the heck am I bothering with you? This is the same kind of dishonest crap you always pull.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-11-24 9:57:19 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2004-11-24 9:57:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 Kaloogian is still a CA - Republican pol - he lost inb the senate primary to Jones (who lost in teh general to Boxer). He's strongly conservative, which along with his Rep party creds, makes him a "whacko" to the MS/MSM UN-lovers. Like Sylwester, attack the messenger when you can't defend against the message

Posted by Frank G 2004-11-24 10:18:27 AM|| 2004-11-24 10:18:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 Amen, RC. MS, what he's getting at is their (gov't's) legitimacy ON THEIR OWN, not in light of the UN. Thus, you get countries like Libya and Syria on the "Human Rights Commission" (give me a F*ck*n' break) and Iran on the Commission for non-proliferation (Can't remember the exact name of it, but that's what they're supposed to do). AND, don't give me this only a certain # of countries on the S.C. and have veto power B.S., those countries should be changed too (especially in light of their "legitimacy" issues).

Posted by BA 2004-11-24 10:29:13 AM|| 2004-11-24 10:29:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 I was looking for an anti-UN group to join; there are so many of them it's kind of difficult to choose.

Posted by Secret Master 2004-11-24 11:29:50 AM|| 2004-11-24 11:29:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 The only really valuable benefit we get from the UN is the badge of legitimacy for our interventions. Extremely valuable, yes. Necessary, even.

But we need to ask whether we could not get that legitimacy from another, parallel organization that would over tiem make the UN redundant. Time to set up super-regional collective security groups with the US at the hub of each, IMHO. Include only democracies and responsible nations that are willing to deploy real and significant assets overseas in the effort to end WMD proliferation, rogue state mischief, terrorism, piracy etc.

Posted by lex 2004-11-24 11:40:08 AM|| 2004-11-24 11:40:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 Kaloogian is a condescending buffoon. He is the poster child for the type of politician that has marginalized the Republican party in California. He and Tom McClintock would rather sit and sputter about how pure they are than try and do something like Schwarzenegger. I pretty much turn off the radio the minute I hear Kaloogian's unctious sanctimonius voice.

Posted by RWV 2004-11-24 12:17:50 PM|| 2004-11-24 12:17:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Signed it too.

Posted by badanov 2004-11-24 12:35:21 PM|| [http://www.rkka.org] 2004-11-24 12:35:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 lex, Legitimacy is becoming an in word, like gravitas was in 2000. What is it really and why do we have to get it from other countries instead of our own actions?

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-11-24 12:44:57 PM|| 2004-11-24 12:44:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Legitimacy's always been in style. Any state that throws its weight around in regions where it's resented by powerful local interests requires a presumption of good faith. Otherwise, you run the risk of being seen as another Wilhelm II who's dangerous to the world order. Legitimacy allows us to poke our nose into all manner of regions and conflicts and issues without causing other powers to gang up against us. Robert Kagan has interesting thoughts on the consequences and sources of this:
http://www.cis.org.au/Events/JBL/JBL04.htm

Posted by lex 2004-11-24 1:10:04 PM|| 2004-11-24 1:10:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 RWV has got it exactly right - Our Terminatin' governor is shrewd enough to pick the right fights, particularly concentrating on economics. Of course the MSM kool-aidists are aghast when Arnie acts truly GOP-like, for example in his opposition to minimum wage hikes because of the bad effect on small business... (Larry King was absolutely dumfounded a week ago in the interview, wasn't he?) He He He

Posted by BigEd 2004-11-24 1:36:01 PM|| 2004-11-24 1:36:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 It's the U.S. that helps the un apply it's policies araound the world, not the other way around. Simply put, if the U.S. doesn't support the measure in the un, it aint getting done. The U.S. has more success when it excludes the un and simply takes matters into it's own hands. Think of Grenada, Panama, Nicaragua and compare them to Bosnia, Kosovo, and Haiti. I may be labeled a "Right-Wing Nut" over this, but I think the un has outlived it's usefulness in the world. just ask yourself how many resolutions have been passed condeming suicide bombers, beheadings, or jailing of Democracy proponents in Cuba? And if there are any, how affective have they been?

Posted by Cyber Sarge 2004-11-24 2:39:39 PM|| 2004-11-24 2:39:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 I was thinking of that paper as well and found it equally unpersuasive. I'm afraid my realist antecedents show up strongly in this legitimacy discussion. I'm with Sarge

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-11-24 2:45:18 PM|| 2004-11-24 2:45:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Just saying something aloud gives it life. It's no secret that I believe the UN is long overdue for retirement - I've just quit repeating myself so often over the last year. Whether replaced with an improved model (we've read and discussed democracy orgs) or with simple bilateral agreements (which Mrs D has made an excellent case for - and sold me) is TBD, heh. But the UN itself has finally been put on the debate menu. Actions like this may not have any "legitamcy" (lol), but they do plant another seed that it has lost its sacrosanct status.

Add the stonewalling of the US Senate & House investigations of the OFF-Scam, the internal mgmt SNAFU's, more stonewalling of those who question the lack of transparency - which should absolutely be its SOP, the cost, the list of institutional failings (LH's is a pretty good starting point), and Kofi's arrogance per recent public mumblings -- and you have a core set of issues which will facilitate the growth of those seeds of doubt.

Eventually it will become a simple issue: What does it cost us, the US taxpayers, how does it serve or disserve US interests, and what does it accomplish? The answers will be sufficient to shut it down.

Posted by .com 2004-11-24 2:51:41 PM|| 2004-11-24 2:51:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 I would not discount Kaloogian and Morgan. They were, after all, the ones that started the ball rolling to get Gray Davis recalled. .Com is absolutely right in that this is a seed and an increasingly visible one at that. If it contributes to a discussion where MAF's goals are considered as a possible eventuality, it will have been a success.

Posted by Remoteman 2004-11-24 3:07:32 PM|| 2004-11-24 3:07:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 The recall was far from Mel's only success. There was MTBE and the car tax as well as another I can't remember. She's connected, bright and sassy; and she's married to the boss. I wouldn't put it past her. It's funny how adversity grows leaders like Mel and Lee.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-11-24 3:52:18 PM|| 2004-11-24 3:52:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Mel was also in on stopping the original Smog Check II IIRC. The opposition keeps underestimating her, and she keeps knockin' em down. Next!

Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-11-24 4:14:30 PM|| 2004-11-24 4:14:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Right. Thanks Rex.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-11-24 4:15:34 PM|| 2004-11-24 4:15:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 and in a few instance (im thinking East Timor here) been relatively competent at doing so. Well over a thousand deaths resulted from this piece of UN competance. It seems UN involvement inevitably results in a large pile of corpses.

Posted by phil_b 2004-11-24 4:16:43 PM|| 2004-11-24 4:16:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 All the UN needs to make it more effective is a massive infusion of funds. The US owes it a fortune and the dough should be taken out of Uncles hide by a Belgian Love Hornet.

Posted by PT Barnum 2004-11-24 5:27:35 PM|| 2004-11-24 5:27:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 Hey, Fred!

Can we set up a paypal account to help move Kofi Anan's bony ass out of New York?

I know he livin' well off the money stolen from Iraqi kids in the Oil for Bribes scandal, and it may not make a difference to him, but it's worth a try...

By the way, Happy Thanksgiving

Posted by BigEd 2004-11-24 5:27:44 PM|| 2004-11-24 5:27:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 paypal? I've got access to a section of rail, tar - I'm sure somebody else can get feathers....

Posted by Frank G 2004-11-24 5:35:11 PM|| 2004-11-24 5:35:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 Since you mention it, Frank G, my cat has been catching A LOT of birds recently...

Had to be somthing in those carcasses which could be used...

Posted by BigEd 2004-11-24 5:49:12 PM|| 2004-11-24 5:49:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 I've got a really similar cat - Nebelung - gray long-hair with a white chest patch - beautiful girl, but an indoor cat

Posted by Frank G 2004-11-24 6:00:00 PM|| 2004-11-24 6:00:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 Go White Shoes!

Posted by Shipman 2004-11-24 6:02:57 PM|| 2004-11-24 6:02:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 Frank---Leave the hysteric, er historic 75 lb rail out of it. You can get in trouble taking out something like that. Get a 4 x 4, some tar from La Brea and some feathers (I'll supply the chicken feathers) and we'll get ourselves a UN bureaucrat. Yar!

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-11-24 6:17:45 PM|| 2004-11-24 6:17:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 Yar! Meet me at Turtle Bay!

Posted by Frank G 2004-11-24 6:22:45 PM|| 2004-11-24 6:22:45 PM|| Front Page Top

11:47 Kalle (kafir forever)
00:02 Kalle (kafir forever)
00:00 Bomb-a-rama
23:51 Rafael
23:48 Brett_the_Quarkian
23:46 Atomic Conspiracy
23:46 Kalle (kafir forever)
23:45 Bomb-a-rama
23:21 Beau
23:11 Kalle (kafir forever)
23:09 Capt America
23:06 Capt America
23:02 BillH
22:59 BillH
22:54 Verlaine
22:50 Verlaine
22:48 2b
22:48 2b
22:38 anon2
22:35 True German Ally
22:32 Laurence of the Rats
22:31 phil_b
22:23 Angie Schultz
22:05 lex