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2004-11-17 Europe
Europe Remembers Rice's 'Punish France' Quip
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Posted by Fred 2004-11-17 11:03:12 PM|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1  Good! She should start every speech with it!
Posted by 98zulu 2004-11-17 12:44:47 AM||   2004-11-17 12:44:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 In America, it's hard for some to think of (Chirac, Shroeder, Putty, Wu-Tang Clan, etc.), without recalling the low points in trans-Atlantic relations that grew out of the war on American interests. After all, it was (Chirac, Shroeder, Putty, Wu-Tang Clan, etc.) who have raised eyebrows (and anger) over the last 3 years with their Bozo The Clown suggestions of how the US should conduct its foreign policy.

But that's just me, I'm sure John Leicester, Associated Press Writer, knows all and sees all. After all, heh, he has a "Press" card.
Posted by .com 2004-11-17 12:49:47 AM||   2004-11-17 12:49:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 "If she is named ... we will continue to have the same relations," Barnier told Europe-1 radio. "With the United States, the moment has come, looking ahead of us, to rebuild, to renew this trans-Atlantic relationship."
Better tell that to your Premier, Minster Monsieur Barnier. The comments and actions of Chirac have done more to damage US european relations than any thing Bush has supposedly done. Chriac has not failed to speak and act badly towards the US.

I hope Rice gets your nuts in a vice and keeps them there.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-11-17 1:16:47 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-11-17 1:16:47 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Chirac will find it hard to 'give the lady a wide field of berth'. Interesting to see whether he distances himself (France) like he did with Alawi of Iraq; pawn her off on the Foreign Minister.
Posted by smn 2004-11-17 1:29:42 AM||   2004-11-17 1:29:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 The following questions have been raised:

How will the Islamists like Saudis and Iranians react to Condi who is black (and therefore regarded as a slave) and a woman who is not dressed in a potato sack from her head to her heels.

How will the treasonous MSM spin the interaction between Condi, who represents the fulfilment of Martin Luther King's dream, and Muslims who are:
* Oppressed
* Misunderstood
* Victims of prejudice
* Simply following the 'religion of peace'
Posted by Bryan 2004-11-17 2:35:37 AM||   2004-11-17 2:35:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 The German government seems to be more optimistic about Rice, if we are to believe the Spiegel: Rice is a friend of Germany".

She didn't leave a bad impression during the reunification talks in 1990 when I personally met her.

She shouldn't ignore Germany. And I don't think she will. Nothing will piss off France more than better US-German relations. Because they can't do nothing about it and must even make a good face.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-11-17 5:11:32 AM||   2004-11-17 5:11:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Lol, TGA. Hit 'em where it hurts, heh. You guys have to unload Shroeder first, before we really can get things back on track. He made a hash of relations. And I want that BMW shaft-drive touring cycle, too, damnit. But I won't buy it until we're back on level ground with each other, lol!
Posted by .com 2004-11-17 5:16:29 AM||   2004-11-17 5:16:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 .com, yes, but don't make Schroeder a "victim"... this can backfire. Treat him nicely, promise nothing and secure a win of the opposition.

An aggressive U.S. stance towards Germany would "help" Schröder and France would benefit most.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-11-17 5:20:43 AM||   2004-11-17 5:20:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 I have no doubts that you're right and that Condi understands what you're saying - well ahead of knuckle-draggers like me, lol! She'll know how to handle our end, I'm sure. And you know what? It just hit me: I can't even remember when I had such clear confidence in our SecState!
Posted by .com 2004-11-17 5:25:29 AM||   2004-11-17 5:25:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 I think people will be more willing to deal with her because they know of her access to the President. Powell was Mr Nice Guy but... well, you know.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-11-17 5:27:49 AM||   2004-11-17 5:27:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 My thoughts entirely TGA.

It's, as we say here, a 'double-whammy' or a 'two-fer', she's going to trouble the French (who will have to listen as she has the ear of someone who takes no prisoners) and as for the guys in the M.E, I cannot *wait* for her first visit there - they are going to totally freak out...

You know, fellow RBers - Nov 2004 has been soo-perb, and there's still two weeks to go!
Posted by Tony (UK)  2004-11-17 5:37:15 AM||   2004-11-17 5:37:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 So true, Tony (UK) - I know there are serious troubles ahead, but I feel more confident today than I did even at the fall of Baghdad.

With the right people in the right places, Dubya can afford to do what needs to be done and know he's getting the best effort from his people - under the circumstances. With State and CIA working against him for the last 3 years, for example, 6 months from now, at worst I hope, they'll be neutral, instead of active opponents. Isn't that an amazing indictment?

Powell, as Mr Nice Guy, as TGA pointed out, served at the pleasure of the President, so on first blush one would assume he would ride herd on State and minimize, if not root out, the subversion. But now we know that didn't happen. Hell, nothing happened except Powell did precisely what he was instructed to do - no more, no less.

Tenet, graciously allowed to stay on for 3+ years at CIA - was even less gracious. We find that it was even worse there. Not only were they lazy / incompetent at their assigned jobs (as a whole), but there were even more subversive element there actively seeking to undermine Bush, such as Plame and her asshole husband Joe Wilson, not to mention Shuerer and his Anonymous tell-all book. What a clusterfuck!

FBI? Well, that's a long-standing sore point for me - and it's transparent to everyone today that their only value is to be able to tell you, 3-6 months after the event, who killed you and how. Kickass forensics. Counter-intel? Uh - not if upper and mid level mgrs are involved, they'll sabotage or actively oppose anything that doesn't bring the glory to HQ. Amazing political jungle.

Y'know, it's amazing things didn't go much worse than they did, IMO. Without the few he could count on, such as Rummy and Franks, it would have.

And now I feel the reverse is true - I look forward and fully expect he won't have one or both hands tied behind his back this term.
Posted by .com 2004-11-17 6:04:40 AM||   2004-11-17 6:04:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Don't due that Fred,I like dogs.As fine a machine as the the BMW is,there is nothing like an American Iron Horse.Harley's V-rod is supposed to be a sweet ride.
Posted by raptor 2004-11-17 6:14:05 AM||   2004-11-17 6:14:05 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 raptor - I haven't ridden the V-Rod or the Titan or any other bike in the last 7-8 yrs, so I am talking through my hat to a degree...

I owned a '74 HD Shovelhead stretched 18" over, pullbacks, custom bodywork, chrome everywhere, granny seat, etc. Used to hang my briefcase over the seat spike, put my Johnston & Murphys up on the hiway pegs and cruise to work in a 3-piece. A good laugh watching the civilians' double-takes, heh. The problem was that it sucked (mushy feel) for around town (tight turns, gravel, etc) and the chain drive vibration caused me to lose sensation in my hands / lower arms on the highway on runs over 2 hrs. I had made it unsuitable for either, in other words. If I were to do it over again, I'd leave the handlebars / fork / frame alone, heh. But now I'm an old man and I want to tour, so I (think I) want a shaft drive. Know of any other "debugged" shaft drive cycles of 1000cc or better displacement? Heh.
Posted by .com 2004-11-17 6:44:21 AM||   2004-11-17 6:44:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 The other player to watch is the MSM. Rich Galen says to watch how often they call her Condi as opposed to how often they called him Colin or even Collie. The MSM is going to hate her policies but have a hard time using their favorite tactic of dumping on her personally when dealing with people with whom they disagree on issues of substance.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-11-17 7:18:34 AM||   2004-11-17 7:18:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 Now that's a Secretary of State.
Posted by Ol_Dirty_American 2004-11-17 7:28:25 AM||   2004-11-17 7:28:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 And just before Thanksgiving, too. Slice of pumpkin pie, anyone, while we sit back and watch all the on-the-hook wriggling?

Mrs. D, what is the significance of the MSM calling her "Condi"?
Posted by trailing wife 2004-11-17 8:02:53 AM||   2004-11-17 8:02:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 Rice is nice but Condi's condign.
Posted by lex 2004-11-17 8:11:19 AM||   2004-11-17 8:11:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 Re. memorable quotes, let's not overlook French Prime Minister Raffarin's admonition to the editors of Le Figaro: "the Iraqi 'resistance' are our best allies."
Posted by lex 2004-11-17 8:12:39 AM||   2004-11-17 8:12:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 "What is the significance of the MSM calling her "Condi"?"
Familiarity? Affection?

WHAT am I saying. I can't see it. I think they'll call her Ms Secretary.
Posted by Bryan 2004-11-17 8:17:50 AM||   2004-11-17 8:17:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 At least to her face, I mean
Posted by Bryan 2004-11-17 8:18:43 AM||   2004-11-17 8:18:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 How will the Islamists like Saudis and Iranians react to Condi who is black (and therefore regarded as a slave) and a woman who is not dressed in a potato sack from her head to her heels.

I think how they will react is a strong reason why she was selected. Bush is saying to the Islamic mobocracies, "I don't give a f*ck what you think. This woman has my ear and my finger's on the button. Disarm and get rid of your Islamic insurgencies, or suffer the consequences."

Anyways, that's what I like to think will happen.
Posted by badanov  2004-11-17 8:21:56 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org/title-boris.gif]  2004-11-17 8:21:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#23  "What is the significance of the MSM calling her "Condi"?"
Familiarity? Affection?

They had better start calling her Ms. Rice or Ms. Secretary of State, or there will be hell to pay...

from me.
Posted by badanov  2004-11-17 8:23:42 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org/title-boris.gif]  2004-11-17 8:23:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#24 Punish France? I believe Bush just did that a bit by selecting Condi for Secretary of State. Saying exactly what he means was a new concept for France, and now we have a Secretary of State who will also pull no punches. How long do you think it will take before France realizes that they have to read the lines, not read between the lines?
Posted by Tom 2004-11-17 8:54:23 AM||   2004-11-17 8:54:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#25 Brilliant, Lex.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-11-17 9:04:14 AM||   2004-11-17 9:04:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#26 They had better start calling her Ms. Rice or Ms. Secretary of State, or there will be hell to pay...

They should call her Doctor Rice with an occasional PhD thrown in out of respect. I'm sure she worked very hard and earned both her Doctorate and PhD and should be respected for both on their own merits.
Posted by CrazyFool  2004-11-17 9:40:04 AM||   2004-11-17 9:40:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#27 .com: "Know of any other "debugged" shaft drive cycles of 1000cc or better displacement?"

If you're serious about touring, and want the most dependable/reliable "debugged" shaft drive bike there is, then the only choice is the Honda Goldwing.

I would stay away from the Euro bikes, sure, some of them are nice, but if you ever have a problem...

With the Honda you have reliability and an extensive dealer/parts network. Besides, I believe it is built here in the US.

Just my opinion based on personal experience.

-AR
Posted by Analog Roam 2004-11-17 10:10:25 AM||   2004-11-17 10:10:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#28 I believe the correct term is Madam Secretary. But I spoze they won't use the term until she's sworn in and assumes the office. And I'm with the Instapundit in hoping she takes a week or so of vacation time before she starts work.
Posted by Seafarious  2004-11-17 10:11:33 AM||   2004-11-17 10:11:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#29 "They had better start calling her Ms. Rice or Ms. Secretary of State, or there will be hell to pay..."


I believe it is Mdm.(Madam) Secretary.

HTH

-AR
Posted by Analog Roam 2004-11-17 10:16:02 AM||   2004-11-17 10:16:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#30 Punish France? I believe Bush just did that a bit by selecting Condi for Secretary of State

And it's obviously touched a nerve, as Chirac's latest round of histrionics indicates.
Posted by lex 2004-11-17 10:17:54 AM||   2004-11-17 10:17:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#31 It's "Dr. Rice" until January 20, 2009; then it's "Madam President." (Let us hope, anyway.)
Posted by Mike  2004-11-17 11:16:33 AM||   2004-11-17 11:16:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#32 TGA: “An aggressive U.S. stance towards Germany would "help" Schröder and France would benefit most.”

Ignoring Germany seems about right. It won’t help US relations with Germany but as long as German politicians and media use anti-US propaganda to whip up local support the relationship isn’t going to improve.

Ignoring Germany and punishing France will help US relations with countries that are or could be good allies. For too many years there has been no penalty for attacking the US and little benefit for being a good friend.
Posted by Anonymous5032 2004-11-17 11:22:22 AM||   2004-11-17 11:22:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#33 Lucianne has a link to a Daily Telegraph??? article saying George is the monkey and now we're meeting his trainer.
Posted by anonymous2u 2004-11-17 11:44:00 AM||   2004-11-17 11:44:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#34 It's not the men of the ME who will be really paying attention, it's their WOMEN.

And that's the real point.
Posted by anonymous2u 2004-11-17 11:49:06 AM||   2004-11-17 11:49:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#35 Help Tony (without screwing Israel or appeasing the mullahs). Build up Poland. Promote Turkey in the EU.

Other than the above, ignore Europe. Asian Century now. All the threats, and most of the opportunity, arise from the near and far east. Long past time we shifted resources and attention toward India, China, Russia.
Posted by lex 2004-11-17 12:17:11 PM||   2004-11-17 12:17:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 .com,not knocking the BMW,it is a damn dependable,comfortable ride.But as Analog says the Goldwing is just as comfortable and dependable plus almost every town in America has a dealer.
As to Harley they have come alooong way in the last 20 years(the engine of the V-road is designed by Porche).Personally I'm just partial to Harley,ain't nothing that sounds or feels like a hot patato between your legs.
Posted by raptor 2004-11-17 12:33:13 PM||   2004-11-17 12:33:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 I don't ride, but I'm told the V-rod is a great blend of sport bike performance with all the good stuff that makes a Hawg a Hawg.

My boss rides a Road King FWIW.
Posted by rkb 2004-11-17 12:46:07 PM||   2004-11-17 12:46:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 Ignoring is always the best way to stop attention-getting bad behavior. But that said, Americans aren't interested in riding herd over the Euro attitudes. It's really up to the Euro's themselves to realize that their governments are not serving their interests by focusing blame on America instead of their fixing their creaking, socialist, nanny-states.

I think the thing that Bush has done best is to just ignore the useless rehetoric and get on with buisness - with our without the support of those who use him as a shiny object to distract the children from their own home-grown failures.

As the Islamist threat grows in Europe - Western Europeans, wishing to hold onto their way of life, will have to choose between the self-destructive blame/shame path of the Paleo, v/s finding a meaningful way to save their own civilizations from the Islamist threat.
Posted by 2b 2004-11-17 1:06:59 PM||   2004-11-17 1:06:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 while there is nothing in French culture or near history to suggest that they will not continue along the path of bribes/appeasement to meet their threats, I beleive that the remainder of Europeans will eventually face and fight back against the real threats facing them.
Posted by 2b 2004-11-17 1:12:04 PM||   2004-11-17 1:12:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 Watch on MSM references to the following: Kissinger, George Schultz, Mad Albright, and Rice. All have doctorates. Level of respect will be indicated by titles.

But what she's called concerns me less than the job she has at State. The last few days have initiated calls for a good house-cleaning to go on at Foggy Bottom. I think it's easier said than done. Who knows what it takes to fire somebody there for not being an effective employee? Dunno, but I have come across a blog called "The Diplomad", the voice of conservative leaning State diplos. It's pretty entertaining and would be worth a visit.

Good luck Dr. Condoleeza Rice. Just remember that a lot of folks under you have their bureaucratic and/or own political agendas to grind. Please let them know they work for you. Plus, make sure that anybody who has insulting cartoons toward you or Bush (Based on published reports last year) on an office wall has to take it down or get canned. (Has anyone seen Oliphant's cartoon today?)
Posted by chicago mike  2004-11-17 2:46:34 PM||   2004-11-17 2:46:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 I admire Dr Rice greatly and wish her the very best. She will do fine, if the MSM coverage doesn't succeed with their PR campaign of projecting failure. Otherwise, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Gossip is a powerful tool. The administration needs to keep up the heat on her detractors to show their disdain for the chauvinism, racism and liberalism which alone form the basis of doubts.
Posted by Jules 187 2004-11-17 3:01:13 PM||   2004-11-17 3:01:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 But that leaves in place Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, a strong-willed hawk who often clashed with Ms. Rice. Most notably, she took over control of the occupation of Iraq, creating an Iraq Stabilization Group. Her aides had made no secret of her opinion that Mr. Rumsfeld had failed to devote enough planning, attention or resources to making a success of the occupation.

Their relationship worsened after the abuse of detainees at Abu Ghraib, the American run prison west of Baghdad, became publicly known. Ms. Rice, her associates say, had warned Mr. Rumsfeld to pay attention to detention issues, but the defense secretary often sent subordinates to meetings on the subject.

So there is no end of speculation about whether Mr. Rumsfeld will have the kind of relationship with Ms. Rice that he had with Mr. Powell: one of constant bickering. Mr. Rumsfeld tried to tamp that speculation down on Tuesday, telling reporters traveling with him in Quito, Ecuador, "I have known Condi for a good number of years," and adding that "long before this administration, we were friends."

"She is an enormous talent," he said. "She is experienced, very bright, and as we all know, has a terrific relationship with the president, which is a very valuable thing."

But he acknowledged that tensions would inevitably occur, and, he said, "It is the task, the responsibility, the duty of people who are participating in that national security process to make sure that the issues are raised and discussed," a process that he said "has worked very well in this administration."

Ms. Rice's associates said they expected that there would be fewer and less heated arguments in the future, partly because Mr. Rumsfeld would be more wary of Ms. Rice and her relationship with the president.

Its from the NYT (hat tip Belgravia Dispatch) so take with as much salt as you deem necessary.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-11-17 3:07:10 PM||   2004-11-17 3:07:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 So there is no end of speculation about whether Mr. Rumsfeld will have the kind of relationship with Ms. Rice that he had with Mr. Powell: one of constant bickering.

Bickering or hot arguments on policy? While there are interesting points in the excerpt, it sounds more like a personality play.

We should expect no less from people in positions of such major power and responsibility than tough skins and the willingness to argue out their points until the better argument wins the day.
Posted by Jules 187 2004-11-17 3:15:35 PM||   2004-11-17 3:15:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 Ignoring is always the best way to stop attention-getting bad behavior. In my experience laughing at them is even more effective. Ever wonder why Islamic and Leftist trolls don't last at RB. It's because being ridiculed all the time is too psychologically painful.
Posted by phil_b 2004-11-17 3:24:58 PM||   2004-11-17 3:24:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 My view is that Powell was the problem.

Disregard all the dezinformatsiya fed us by his admirers in the MSM. Aside from defusing Indo-Pak, what did this man achieve while in office? Nothing except supply Bob Woodward with all the material he needed for his book.

In the process Powell did much to undermine his president, making him probably the worst Sec State of the last twenty years. Among his contributions, he:
-- opposed intervening to halt fascist slaughter in Iraq as Sec State, just as, while Head of the JCS, he opposed intervening to halt fascist slaughter in the balkans
-- pushed for and got the totally unnecessary and ultimately disastrous second UNSC resolution in early 2003
-- traveled less and achieved less than any SecState in recent memory
-- did nothing, absolutely nothing, to persuade any of the Bush admin's European critics to let up their attacks on the admin
-- covered for this underperformance by smirking and winking to NYT and other reporters about his disagreements with his president.

Good riddance, Colin. You've disserved your country long enough.
Posted by lex 2004-11-17 3:30:55 PM||   2004-11-17 3:30:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 How pathetic is it that nations are offended that they might be ignored. Everyone wants America's attention, just a wink from time to time to confirm their own importants. Pathetic.
Posted by rjschwarz  2004-11-17 3:44:56 PM|| [http://politicaljunky.blogspot.com]  2004-11-17 3:44:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#47 Oh and it's DR. Rice.

m/
Posted by Anon4021 2004-11-17 4:21:24 PM||   2004-11-17 4:21:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#48 raptor, rkb, AR - Thanx - I've never had a thing for Honda cycles and hadn't even spent 5 minutes tco look (dumb, yes), but I'll belay that and get on the stick to check out the GW. If you've ridden, especially road trips (I did a 1400 mile trip in 2 days once - a killer), you know what I'm talking about re: vibration, heh. The Easy Rider icon was a joke. Raptor - you're right about the feel and roar of a Harley - nothing to match it. Like riding a rocket on a knife edge. Thx, all, your expertise is appreciated!

On-topic:
As for the issues of recalcitrant people in CIA / State who are Civil Service, they should follow a recommendation I made at Aramco where we had the same problem: you can't fire a Saudi. I suggested creating a group - a deadbeat unit. Reassign them to it. It receives no substantive work, is privvy to nothing, and serves no purpose other than as a holding pen. If you're stuck with shitheads, then isolate them, stigmatize them as fools and slackers (to kill credibility for their tell-all books to come), no meetings, no memos, no email, no raises, no promotions, no Christmas Party invites, no nothing - and pray they'll have enough self-regard to resign. Certainly give them no access nor influence - and fraternizing with them is a ticket to oblivion.

Doctor Madam Secretary Rice will exact respect on behalf of the US from all she meets - or they will know they have been relegated to the peanut gallery, I'm sure.

I understand from several places that Rummy will probably leave in about 6 months - and I hope James Woolsey is offered the SecDef position.

McCain can jump off the nearest cliff - he contends with Skeery in face count.
Posted by .com 2004-11-17 6:37:12 PM||   2004-11-17 6:37:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#49 I haven't suddenly turned into a Schröder fan, just to reassure you. But he seems to gret at least a bit of his shits together. From what my usually well informed sources tell me France has gotten a bit too close to him for his taste and he doesn't really dig Chirac's obstructionist policies (which can only hurt Germany).
While a German military engagement in Iraq is out of question right now (Schröder's electorate would kill him), the German Bundestag, rather quietly, approved to stock up on money and soldiers when it comes to international WOT missions (Afghanistan has it's own separate budget). The reform of the Bundeswehr will make it possible to deploy HALF of all soldiers internationally. There is a "Rumsfeld reform" going on that goes largely unnoticed (even in Germany) because the only thing that is noted is the cutting of troops and money. But those cuts concern the now unnecessary, costly parts of German defense. Too many bases, too heavy equipment. The new Bundeswehr will be far more mobile and probably be able to deploy up to 125000 troops abroad by 2010.
The German defense minister Struck seems to be doing a good job.
"Ignoring" Germany would not be the wise thing to do because Germany is willing to do more, just not in Iraq. Iraq is not "sellable" for now. Securing the Mediterranean is a different story.
And remember: The Bundeswehr soooo much favors the USA over France.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-11-17 6:56:58 PM||   2004-11-17 6:56:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#50 I went to an Oktoberfest party last month at the Bundeswehrkommando facilities at Dulles International Airport. It was outstanding. Traditional music, excellent sauerbraten, endless bier and reisling, and a whole bunch of cutie pie German military men. Yum!
Posted by Seafarious  2004-11-17 7:32:09 PM||   2004-11-17 7:32:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#51 Ah, some girls call them the "Gummibear Brigade" because they are known to have fresh stocks of Haribo Gummibears, the only ones...
Posted by True German Ally 2004-11-17 7:39:21 PM||   2004-11-17 7:39:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#52 Hmmm...maybe I'll learn how to make small talk in German about gummi bears for next year!
Posted by Seafarious  2004-11-17 7:43:12 PM||   2004-11-17 7:43:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#53 And don't forget Nutella...lol
Posted by True German Ally 2004-11-17 7:44:35 PM||   2004-11-17 7:44:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#54 Well, I do think that Germans and Americans should move forward - there is no reason not to. However I think Schroder threw his "anti-American/hate-Bush" dice and lost. I think if Schroder wants to mend fences - then fine, but don't expect Bush to come begging.

Look, there is no anti-German sentiment on the part of the American people - but we've changed since 9/11. Too many Chirac, Schoreders, Erdogans, have backstabbed us and then believed if it didn't work out, that they could just smile and go back to business as ususal.

This is not a game that Euro's leaders, who refuse to help us fight for Western survival, can expect Americans to come back wagging their tail after throwing us a couple of bones. We are ticked that our soldiers are dying while Chirac mouths off.

Again, this is not about a beef with the German people. Other than the French - Americans are happy to mend the fences...but on terms of real frienship and cooperation - not the "we'll be nice to you when we feel like it" kind.

I'd say our relationship with Germany should be this: - one of not obstructing efforts to to work together.
Posted by 2b 2004-11-17 8:47:36 PM||   2004-11-17 8:47:36 PM|| Front Page Top

23:15 JonS
10:22 2b
10:22 2b
23:57 .com
23:54 someone
23:54 Frank G
23:51 .com
23:47 Cornîliës
23:44 .com
23:35 mojo
23:30 mojo
23:29 Kalle (kafir forever)
23:26 JosephMendiola
23:16 .com
23:16 JonS
23:15 JonS
23:14 OldSpook
23:11 Frank G
23:07 Frank G
23:06 .com
23:06 Frank G
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23:00 Mike Sylwester
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