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2004-09-13 Home Front: Politix

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Posted by tipper 2004-09-13 12:06:08 PM|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Bush - REAL
Kerry - Phony

That's it.

Posted by BigEd 2004-09-13 12:16:41 PM|| 2004-09-13 12:16:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 My first-born got her first passport at 10 months old. My second child got hers at the advanced age of 4 weeks. Neither's has had a chance to expire, and both children probably have more frequent flyer memberships than the writer of this backhanded compliment.

I've been complimented on my English on the streets of Brussels and in the Kurparks of Frankfurt. At parties strangers have admired the language ability of my American husband, and wondered where I met him.

There are many like us working for the larger corporations here in the Midwest and, according to the surveys, most of us will vote Republican in November.

I do get so very tired of the stereotypes. But at least the writer understands the most important fact of the near future.

Posted by trailing wife 2004-09-13 12:49:15 PM|| 2004-09-13 12:49:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 It's always nice to see the hopes, dreams and thoughts of 300 million people from wildly diverse backgrounds summarized in a few deft sentences. Despite the author's condescension, however, he's got three key points down right:
(1) Americans have lots of guns (2) Americans will fight back if attacked and (3) Americans will reelect George Bush.

Posted by Matt 2004-09-13 1:00:47 PM|| 2004-09-13 1:00:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Bush voters are more likely to have a top loader freezer.

Posted by Shipman 2004-09-13 1:28:34 PM|| 2004-09-13 1:28:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 So how does Lumpy Reifenstahl fit into the "pretty people love Kerry" scenario?

Posted by Classical_Liberal 2004-09-13 1:49:09 PM|| 2004-09-13 1:49:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 American's love freedom. They will fight to the death to preserve it.

Posted by feeling bitchy 2004-09-13 2:33:03 PM|| 2004-09-13 2:33:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Bush Voters are more likely to have a chest freezer (to keep their kill in after they hunt it down with GUNS).

This is silly. I live on the Coast (Washington State), own a passport, traveled abroad, and am a conservative and will not vote for that fraud and traitor called Kerry.

Posted by CrazyFool 2004-09-13 2:59:25 PM|| 2004-09-13 2:59:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 The left became their parents -but with a different twist.

They are the new bigots now. They view conservatives, like the bigots of old viewed ni^^&*s; stupid, subhuman creatures who are responsible for the worlds ills.

It's amazing to hear my leftie friends spew their hate for "the masses" they never met. Their belief in the righteousness of their cause to damn "the unclean", is staggering.

Posted by feeling bitchy 2004-09-13 3:19:45 PM|| 2004-09-13 3:19:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 What an asshat. Typical Eurohatred. And the writer has the nerve to call Americans "provincial."

Go screw yourself, cockmonkey.

Posted by growler 2004-09-13 3:37:42 PM|| 2004-09-13 3:37:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 It's not a serious piece growler. It's tounge in cheek agitprop.

Posted by Classical_Liberal 2004-09-13 4:22:58 PM|| 2004-09-13 4:22:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 That's it, I'm pissed now!

Okay I happen to live in Missouri, BUT!, I have both attended university and have a passport!

I'd really like to see this "dicknose" talk this way face to face with a "redstater"!

What a freaking jerk!

Posted by RJB in JC MO 2004-09-13 6:23:43 PM|| 2004-09-13 6:23:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Damn!

I really feel stupid now.

Thanks to C-Libs heads up I went back and both re-read and read the whole article.

Like I said, I feel really stupid now. ;)

Posted by RJB in JC MO 2004-09-13 6:30:30 PM|| 2004-09-13 6:30:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Yep CrazyFool... chest freezer! I was trying to drag the term out of me long term memory! I kept thinking.... coffin freezer. :)

Posted by Shipman 2004-09-13 7:26:35 PM|| 2004-09-13 7:26:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Now just hold on there, have you looked at the democrat group as a whole, good looking you mean like James Carville, or Robert Reich he looks like a Jerry Mahoney doll with a beard.... of course they do have the lovely and talented Babs....excuse me I have to vomit

Posted by wills 2004-09-13 7:50:47 PM|| 2004-09-13 7:50:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 I'm one of the "technological avant garde" that has been met on the streets in the U.K., France, Germany, the Netherlands, Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, Japan, Canada, Mexico, and Colombia. I voted for Bush before and I'm going to do it again. Proof that this article is pure bullshit.

Posted by Tom 2004-09-13 7:51:06 PM|| 2004-09-13 7:51:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 "The United States, by contrast, is populated by the descendants of individuals who decided to cease to be Europeans (or whatever) so that no one would be able to push them around."
I prefer to think that Europe, in contrast, is populated by the descendants of placid individuals who were easily pushed around and who were too timid to get on the boat. Seriously, could this writer have infused any more stupid stereotypes into this article and still have gotten it printed?

Posted by Tom 2004-09-13 7:57:56 PM|| 2004-09-13 7:57:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Actually, even as a progressive I have to take issue with you here Tipper. I've been posting a lot on slate.com, feeling out the mood of the electorate, if you will. And from that and talking with the conservatives I know, a pattern has emerged.

It's mostly about religion.

The most common reasons I've heard given for voting Bush/Cheney in 2004 are:

1. Dunno, I just like him. He seems very moral.
2. I like the fact that he has a strong belief in God.
3. He's a lot tougher than that wuss Kerry.

Bottom line: Kerry didn't come out fighting when he was supposed to. America's swing voters held their its collective breath after the Democratic convention, but Kerry didn't go negative fast enough. As a result Bush walked all over him and made him look weak. So now he's Al Gore, Part II.

You can't seriously believe that the way some Americans look has any impact on the way they vote. George Bush is actually highly qualified from a certain point of view. Unfortunately for the country, that view includes some very wrongheaded policies that will probably stifle free speech and create more poverty. But that's politics.

First order of business is to accept the election results and stop baiting conservatives. Second order of business is to begin fighting in the courts and in the press to prevent the radical "reforms" that Bush has promised for Social Security, Medicare, and government regulatory bodies. He means to abolish them all. The fox is in among the chickens, so we'll just have to save as many as we can. Making gratuitous attacks on our friends on the right won't help.

Posted by Mister Write 2004-09-13 8:44:48 PM|| 2004-09-13 8:44:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 You think Slate is a fair cross-section!?!

Posted by Tom 2004-09-13 8:47:35 PM|| 2004-09-13 8:47:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Tipper didn't write the article, Mister Write. Tipper just posted it and gave us excerpts. Click on the headline for the actual full article. [Even though you're probably one of those "coastal elite," I'll cut you a break for that "friends on the right" comment.]

Posted by Tom 2004-09-13 8:58:51 PM|| 2004-09-13 8:58:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Of the politicized and therefore motivated segment of the population, yes, I do.

And just like the country at large, it's divided right down the middle, with roughly equal representation of Dems and Repubs.

Posted by Mister Write 2004-09-13 8:59:37 PM|| 2004-09-13 8:59:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Ahhh I see it now, thanks for the correction. I'm still kinda new to Rantburg.

Posted by Mister Write 2004-09-13 9:01:45 PM|| 2004-09-13 9:01:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 This reminds me of Mead's definition of "Jacksonian Americans". A person that holds the virtue of Honor in high regards.

Europe doesn't understand the US, Americans or it's foreign policy. And I don't think they ever will.

Also, the more I think about it, is that we, The US, are fighting FOR the Arab, the Iraqi, and the Muslim. We are trying to protect them from the might of The West. History has shown us, that once pushed to war for survival, the West does not stop for concessions or peace treaties. We would crush, kill and destroy our enemies until they've accepted OUR terms. And the cost then will be much greater, than it is now.

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of liberty."
-John F. Kennedy (JFK)

Posted by Anon4021 2004-09-13 9:25:44 PM|| 2004-09-13 9:25:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Bravo, Anon4021 - beautifully stated. *wipes tear*

Excellent summation.

Posted by .com 2004-09-13 9:30:34 PM|| 2004-09-13 9:30:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 A lot of techies on the right, Tom. They like the clear, unambiguous answers that conservatism provides. Very precise, and they make for snappy blogging too.

Posted by Mister Write 2004-09-13 9:54:03 PM|| 2004-09-13 9:54:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Mr. Left: A lot of techies on the right, Tom. They like the clear, unambiguous answers that conservatism provides. Very precise, and they make for snappy blogging too.

A lot of liberal arts folks on the left. They like ambiguous answers that reinforce to them how sophisticated and intellectual they are. Gives them an opportunity to pat themselves on the back over and over again.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-09-13 9:57:23 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-09-13 9:57:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Mr. Write, welcome! (Goodness, that's my second welcome today! Fred, are your numbers going up yet again?)

When you've been among us a bit longer, you'll realize that this blog is not truly among the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. We number among us Christians, Jews, Moslems, atheists, agnostics, and Others as yet undefined. Many are conservatives (American version) of various stripes, but there are also American-style liberals, Jackson/Cold War liberals (aka liberal hawks), Independents, Libertarians and Socialists both Euro- and American. We count among our posters Americans, Canadians, Europeans from England east to Turkey, and correspondents from around the globe. Our skill sets range from Special Forces to housewives, from factory worker to professor, and one dear little Bahraini co-ed (or was it Dubai?), who was a bit shocked by this first exposure to the great big world outside her borders. Lots of us have been in the military, or experienced history from an even more intimate perspective. Some of us are grateful to have been sheltered from all that.

I think I speak for most of us here when I say that the bright line between Kerry and Bush runs through the Twin Towers and the Pentagon on 9/11. Religion -- his or mine -- is not an issue. Even liking the man is moot. But only one of the candidates noticed that everything was reprioritized on that day, and has acted accordingly ever since.

Perhaps outside these walls Dems and Repubs are motivated as you say. I don't know, I've pretty much given up discussing politics out there -- it isn't safe ;-) In here we employ our various skills to figure out what's really going on in this war that Terror declared upon us.

All -- please forgive my windiness. Last night my mood was fey...this evening my ABB husband admitted that Kerry hasn't done what he needs to do to win the presidency.

At any rate, that's the perspective of this little housewife.

Posted by trailing wife 2004-09-13 10:08:29 PM|| 2004-09-13 10:08:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 The wonderful thing about this article is that it reminds me how wonderful it is to have one person one vote. We here in the fly over country still refuse to be ruled by the condesceding arrogant elitists in the Northeast.

Posted by JP 2004-09-13 10:35:30 PM|| 2004-09-13 10:35:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Touche, Zhang Fei. Though you could have spared me a bit of the sarcasm and still made the point.

And as a matter of principle, I don't swallow the spin from the left any more readily than I swallow the spin from the right.

Posted by Mister Write 2004-09-13 10:39:29 PM|| 2004-09-13 10:39:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Well... hmmm... a Republican in D.C. might as well stay home, same goes for a Democrat in Mississippi.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-13 10:40:25 PM|| 2004-09-13 10:40:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 tw - He's certainly got the hand-wringing thing down, no? One must wonder if it's some other anatomical protuberance that's actually being handled... BTW, he sounds a bit like another apologist / wringer who deigns to show up occasionally - posts under the nym of "slumming" - which endeared him to me immediately, since RB is home.

Posted by .com 2004-09-13 10:42:27 PM|| 2004-09-13 10:42:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Thank you very much for the welcome trailing, I appreciate that. I'll take your advice to heart and not rush to judgment on anything.

I agree that employing our skills to figure out what's really going on is the most important thing. If that means taking the occasional dart, so be it. Honesty matters more than sensitivity, and debate more than groupthink.

A lot of the posts I've read on Rantburg have been of the more abusive sort. Libs do that too, yes, but it's generally the Cons who shine at it. So maybe there's a slight majority of Cons here, yes? No problem. The majority of the posts I've read have been quite rigorous, which is refreshing.

Looking forward to sharpening my wits among you all.

Posted by Mister Write 2004-09-13 10:55:58 PM|| 2004-09-13 10:55:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Gosh, Mr Write,
Please give us the names of all those you know who have had their freedom of speech curtailed or taken away by the "bad Bush" policies.

Thought so, you can't name one, nor can any of your so-called progressive friends if similarly challenged.

Too, you couldn't name a single policy enacted by the "Bushitler" that will drive a single individual into poverty either! Mobility among socio-economic tiers is so great and bounded only by one's desire to succeed and one's willingness to work for it!

We in Red fly-over country, unlike our bretheren on the Coasts, will vote for Bush for the simple reason stated above: Bush, real; Kerry, phony. Our phoniness detectors are just in much better shape since we don't have to put up with it 24/7 like you Coastal types do!

Posted by Anonymous5289 2004-09-13 10:56:58 PM|| 2004-09-13 10:56:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 welcome aboard and en garde!

Posted by Frank G 2004-09-13 10:57:42 PM|| 2004-09-13 10:57:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 Thanks also, Frank.

Anonymous: No names, because that hasn't happened... yet. But the country does seem to be moving that way, doesn't it? The Patriot Act was certainly a blow for... something... but that something wasn't free speech, or democratic principles.

"Bushitler"? Not my phraseology. But by any measure the gap between the rich and the poor continues to grow. Traditional conservatives counter with a heartfelt, "so what? The people who really matter are moving up." Yeah, but. Bread and circuses kept the poor of Rome from open revolt; I wonder what we'll use after Social Security, Medicare and welfare have all been abolished as per the Republican master plan. Seems to me we've got a bad case of ideology.

Free market means free stealing too, and that's why the top earners of this country increased their wealth by vast sums last year. Sure, you've got money, you're okay. But an awful lot of Americans aren't. What will you tell them, Anonymous? Go find Jesus? Ask for a few fishes and loaves?

Americans prefer to vote with their balls and ignore the issues, bigger fools we.

Posted by Mister Write 2004-09-13 11:22:44 PM|| 2004-09-13 11:22:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 Lol! I feel so dirty - and shamed. Yes, very heavy on the shame thingy. I have read my better, and it is the sweet voice of reason and compassion and *ZZZzzz*. It offers no facts or justifications, but it has no need. The high ground is taken. All opposition is forfeit. Ignore everything that passed before today. It was merely an illusion. Mark your calendars -- the truth arrived. Today. Again.

Posted by .com 2004-09-13 11:33:35 PM|| 2004-09-13 11:33:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 that pablum won't fly here, Bob Shrum. The rich pay more than their share in taxes, and the middle class is growing. Heard of EIC in teh tax code? You'll have to do a lot better or the abuse with facts here will collapse that little world you've concocted. Check out polipundit.com for econ/tax/class warfare info that smashes your worldview.....

Posted by Frank G 2004-09-13 11:36:02 PM|| 2004-09-13 11:36:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 Mr. Left: Free market means free stealing too

Actually free market means free market. Progressive policies steal from us and give to Democratic constituencies. I suggest that if you want to redistribute income, you start by paying my bills for me. I could sure use a hand.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-09-13 11:43:03 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-09-13 11:43:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 easy there, ZF - he'd tax me, pay you, then take credit for his "compassion"

Posted by Frank G 2004-09-13 11:45:36 PM|| 2004-09-13 11:45:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 Forgive me, Mr. Write, but I've led a very sheltered life, and I have no idea what Americans prefer to vote with their balls means. No doubt I am the only one here so abysmally ignorant, but I'm afraid 'tis so. Please translate.

Thanks in advance,
tw

Posted by trailing wife 2004-09-13 11:53:18 PM|| 2004-09-13 11:53:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 that's where the term "hanging chads" comes from

Posted by Frank G 2004-09-13 11:54:25 PM|| 2004-09-13 11:54:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 ROFL! And won't "Chad" be surprised! Lol!

Posted by .com 2004-09-13 11:56:05 PM|| 2004-09-13 11:56:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 ;-) couldn't resist

Posted by Frank G 2004-09-13 11:56:07 PM|| 2004-09-13 11:56:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 A dissent here. Can we please dispense with the asinine "red" and "blue" stereotypes? There are millions of Truman-JFK national security Democrats on both coasts who, like Krauthammer and Hitchens and Kaus and Marty Peretz and others, find Kerry appalling. There are millions of old-line white shoe Republicans scattered across the midwest and south who, like Will and Buckley and Bush 41's advisers, are not keen on the religious right or on neo-con notions of "national greatness" or democracy promotion in the muslim world. And then there are the many thousands of NASCAR dads who aren't keen on Bush and the security (nee soccer) moms who are determined that a Beslan never happen here. Are these folks red or blue?

The fact is that most Americans are a shade of purple. Most of the southern high-growth metropolises are becoming more cosmopolitan as yuppie high-tech and finance workers move in from the north. New York and other northern metropolises have discovered zero tolerance and the merits of making their cities clean and attractive to the Disney crowd.

And I believe that a majority of Americans would happily vote for an alternative to Bush, like Lieberman or maybe Biden or a moderate Republican like Giuliani or McCain, if only such a moderate, tough on terror and sensible at home candidate were available.

Posted by lex 2004-09-13 11:56:35 PM|| 2004-09-13 11:56:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 lemme see: "dispense with stereotypes"?

there are the many thousands of NASCAR dads who aren't keen on Bush and the security (nee soccer) moms who are determined that a Beslan never happen here

? I love Nascar, I'm a Dad, and now that we're hypersensitive, I resent your stereotyping :-)

Posted by Frank G 2004-09-14 12:00:44 AM|| 2004-09-14 12:00:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#45 Gap between rich and poor: If one man makes $50 K and another makes $100 K, and their standard of living goes up by 10%, they now make $55 K and $110 K respectively. The gap between their incomes has grown. So what? They're both richer.

Posted by V is for Victory 2004-09-14 12:02:07 AM|| 2004-09-14 12:02:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#46 lex - Who said they were solid red or solid blue? Only a fool would say that any candidate is perfect. I think the fact that the little thing known as the survival of civilization sorta overrides the other issues has led you to an erroneous conslusion. You haven't been here long enough to know it, perhaps, but there is a significantly sized segment here who are relatively new "Bushies" - and I'm one of them. I like freedom. He'll work to preserve it. 'Nuff said for this election.

The Dhimmicrap Party is your issue, my friend. The other issues are kinda moot if we don't get motherfucking serious about the WoT. I like Leiberman a LOT! But he was treated like a leper by his own, no? That settled it for me. They don't get dick from me until they rejoin reality. Which is already in progress, lol!

I'd like to see Giuliani or Schwarzenegger (we'll look at that constitutional issue, heh) or Rice Or even Zell Miller - cuz I know Leiberman will still be a leper and Hillary will be their choice - in 2008.

Posted by .com 2004-09-14 12:11:58 AM|| 2004-09-14 12:11:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#47 FG: easy there, ZF - he'd tax me, pay you, then take credit for his "compassion"

No - actually I meant Mr. Left could start personally paying my bills, not getting someone else to do so. The point is for him to indulge his sense of charity by actually digging into his own pockets instead of picking someone else's.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-09-14 12:28:20 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-09-14 12:28:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#48 Your comments mangle my point. I'm a Democrat and an atheist. I supported and still support the war to overthrow Saddam. I'm voting for Bush this time around. My point is that the fact that I live in a "red" state indicates absolutely nothing about my preferences or values, just as the fact that I'm a Democrat does not mean that I have my head up my arse like so many of Mikey Moore's fans. I would like to see a party realignment that would see the Mikey-Howie-Jimmah types ostracised and replaced in the Democratic Party by Giuliani-Arnold-McCain crossover types. Then we could finally have an intelligent national discussion about the best way to fight and win this war.

Posted by lex 2004-09-14 12:34:13 AM|| 2004-09-14 12:34:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#49 lex - Who are you talking to in #48?

Posted by .com 2004-09-14 12:58:19 AM|| 2004-09-14 12:58:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#50 Hmmmm... let me see... in and around all the personal attacks, there is a point or two here.

.com: It offers no facts or justifications, but it has no need.

Quite right, because neither do you. What, I should operate at a disadvantage here? Time-honored debate tactic of the right: demand proof, then when the poor lefty schmuck delivers a gargantuan post, simply impugn his sources.

Been there, done that.

The high ground is taken. All opposition is forfeit.

Not at all, sir. You may engage on the issues anytime you like. Perhaps other readers are waiting for this too.

Frank G: The rich pay more than their share in taxes, and the middle class is growing. Heard of EIC in teh tax code? You'll have to do a lot better or the abuse with facts here will collapse that little world you've concocted.

::sigh:: It's very easy to talk only about the rich, which you do. What about the poor? I guess we don't have any of those in this country, eh? Or the disabled, what of them? Can they compete effectively in your "no-handouts" world? Sure they can. One-legged people can still hop around with "Car Wash" signs. Everyone either competes or dies.

Frank, if you are of moderate income and not personally rich, you're just guarding the rich man's plantation here. You're delivering his cleverly constructed propaganda: there is an infinite money supply, greed is good, let's deregulate everything now, never mind about health benefits, never mind about falling or stagnant wages, you don't need overtime pay, compete, compete, compete.

Why? What do you gain, personally, from Mr. Gates' enormous wealth? At the end of the day, that money gets parked in his bank account, not yours.

I say only this: don't cater to the rich. They have been waging class warfare in this country for decades. Which is perfectly laudable and normal. It only becomes abnormal when we let them take all the marbles, and fail to defend for our own standard of living.

Half the country enthusiastically shills for the rich, even though 80% are not members of the upper class and never will be. I sincerely hope you become rich, Frank G. But the odds of that happening are small, as they are for any of us.

And getting smaller.

Check out polipundit.com for econ/tax/class warfare info that smashes your worldview.....

I will, and thanks for the tip.

Zhang Fei: Progressive policies steal from us and give to Democratic constituencies.

Well, tell your boys in Washington that poor people do exist in this country and get 'em to throw a bone in that direction once in awhile. Then they wouldn't be Democratic constituencies anymore.

suggest that if you want to redistribute income, you start by paying my bills for me. I could sure use a hand.

Gladly, as soon as I get a share of all this fabulous wealth that Mr. Bush has been generating for the average American. You probably got, let's see, $200 or so from his last tax cut? Paul O'Neill got $3.5 million. A year.

tw: Forgive me, Mr. Write, but I've led a very sheltered life, and I have no idea what Americans prefer to vote with their balls means. No doubt I am the only one here so abysmally ignorant, but I'm afraid 'tis so. Please translate.

Ah no, forgive me instead. I was being overly dramatic.

What I should have said was: Americans, as a rule, aren't paying attention to what's going on behind the curtain. We have our war on (as you pointed out in your earlier post), or we have taken up our crusader's crosses, as I would have it. Either way, it is emotion and not logic driving us.

Does that make me an elitist? Dunno. But I suspect someone on here might tell me.

Whew! This is fun.

lex: A very eloquent plea for civility. I would have backed anyone but Mr. Bush myself, though the point is now moot.

The fact is that most Americans are a shade of purple.

Or liberal in one respect, and conservative in some another, yes. Ideas of left and right don't do justice to the nuances of reality. People shouldn't wine so much about the extremes of American Culture. We could learn a thing or two about this from the French.

And I believe that a majority of Americans would happily vote for an alternative to Bush, like Lieberman or maybe Biden or a moderate Republican like Giuliani or McCain, if only such a moderate, tough on terror and sensible at home candidate were available.

Such a person would still have to be vetted by the right and the religious right, which is a nearly impossible obstacle to negotiate. But now that I've completely won over .com and Frank G to my way of thinking, it'll be just that little bit easier.

Posted by Mister Write 2004-09-14 12:59:57 AM|| 2004-09-14 12:59:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#51 It's rex-like in volume - sans the link-fest and MS Word tell-tales.

Posted by .com 2004-09-14 1:06:19 AM|| 2004-09-14 1:06:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#52 Mr. Left: Well, tell your boys in Washington that poor people do exist in this country and get 'em to throw a bone in that direction once in awhile. Then they wouldn't be Democratic constituencies anymore.

Stealing isn't any less wrong when you call it income redistribution. Stealing to win votes is what liberals do. Conservatives work to reverse this theft. (Besides, conservatives can't outbid liberals - if we promise them a car, the liberals will promise them a Porsche. And why is that? Because liberals get other people to pay for their sense of charity).

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-09-14 1:06:46 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-09-14 1:06:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#53 You're still not telling me anything, .com. Do you have any substance, or is it all just style?

Posted by Mister Write 2004-09-14 1:09:44 AM|| 2004-09-14 1:09:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#54 Oh, and it assumes that not a word was posted before it arrived. We've all been waiting for it to ask (and answer) the *deep* and *compassionate* questions of our time.

Does a sound blog exist if a woods in the wild shits bear?

Posted by .com 2004-09-14 1:13:40 AM|| 2004-09-14 1:13:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#55 Well spoken, Zhang Fei. I think we are actually in agreement on how both left and right buy their respective constituencies. And yes, if conservatives give even one penny to the poor, they start down the slippery slope to income redistribution.

The trick, I think, is to achieve a balance. Something must be guaranteed to the poor. Otherwise the American dream is a cheap and empty promise. Guarantee 'em a job, maybe. Or health care. Or inexpensive food and transportation. But certainly not everything.

Reward hard work and initiative, but don't punish poverty. That's why we no longer see Newt Gingrich: he had no compassion, and he wanted to punish folks just for being poor. Take away their kids and put 'em all in orphanages. Bizarre.

Long as you and me, or at least people much like you and me, are doing battle in the marketplace of ideas and no one ultimately wins, the two sides will be more or less in harmony. The rich and... those other people that you could not even name in your posts.

To your health!

Posted by Mister Write 2004-09-14 1:22:07 AM|| 2004-09-14 1:22:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#56 All right .com, we'll let it slide this time. But I suggest you arm yourself with something more than sarcasm when next we meet!

Enough for one night, my friends. I've enjoyed sparring with you and I'll look forward to our next thread.

Don't take any of it too seriously, and be well.

Posted by Mister Write 2004-09-14 1:28:44 AM|| 2004-09-14 1:28:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#57 Mr Lefty,

I remember as a kid (in early 60's, Czechoslovakia), seeing movie about poor people in America. It was truly shocking. I saw these poor people, living in a house, having TV set, and some older type of car. I decided: "I want to be a poor resident of America!"

Posted by Nanook 2004-09-14 2:04:04 AM|| 2004-09-14 2:04:04 AM|| Front Page Top

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