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2004-07-16 Home Front: Culture Wars

Atheist to deliver opening 'prayer' at Tampa council meeting

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Posted by GK 2004-07-16 04:00|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Even after reading the article, I'm trying to figure out how that would work. Idiocy, if you ask me.

Posted by The Doctor 2004-07-16 8:55:31 AM|| 2004-07-16 8:55:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Jim Fair would have loved this.

Posted by Shipman 2004-07-16 9:22:20 AM|| 2004-07-16 9:22:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Our Father, who art not in Heaven, we beseech thee ... A man.

Maybe the folks at Central Command HQ should go to a city council meeting and put the fear of Jesus into these PC politicians.

Posted by ed 2004-07-16 9:27:11 AM|| 2004-07-16 9:27:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Translation: They simply won't have an opening prayer that day....

Posted by CrazyFool 2004-07-16 9:29:24 AM|| 2004-07-16 9:29:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 The idea of "nondenominational" prayers is itself absurd. Anything more specific that "Yay, whoever (if anyone) is out there, please give us stuff!" and you are including your own religious beliefs in your prayer.

What you can at most do is try to express the lowest common denominator of all the prevalent beliefs of the participators. And when atheists are involved, that lowest-common-denominator will probably have to be a thanksgiving.

"We are thankful for..." and you don't need to say whether there's someone out there to be thankful to, or you just express general feelings of thankfulness at large.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-07-16 10:24:56 AM|| 2004-07-16 10:24:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Actually, if you set aside the religious character of the invocation for a moment, I kind of like the idea of having someone remind politicians to think rationally, use common sense, and to remember that "morality" is often denominational (and thus suspicious in the eyes of even most religious Americans), wherease "ethics" is obeying the laws of men.

Now who could object to someone reminding politicians to be ethical? Heaven knows they need it. I personally care more that a politician follows the criminal statutes than if he uses the Lord's name in vain.

Posted by Anonymoose 2004-07-16 11:01:53 AM|| 2004-07-16 11:01:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Roger Zelazny's "Possibly Proper Prayer",
from "Lord of Light"

Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say, I ask, if it matters, that you be forgiven for anything you may have done or failed to do which requires forgiveness. Conversely, if not forgiveness but something else may be required to insure any possible benefit for which you may be eligible after the destruction of your body, I ask that this, whatever it may be, be granted or withheld, as the case may be, in such a manner as to insure your receiving said benefit. I ask this in my capacity as your elected intermediary between yourself and that which may not be yourself, but which may have an interest in the matter of your receiving as much as it is possible for you to receive of this thing, and which may in some way be influenced by this ceremony. Amen.

Posted by mojo 2004-07-16 1:45:59 PM|| 2004-07-16 1:45:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 I tell a lie - it's from "Creatures of Light and Darkness", not "Lord of Light"

My bad.

Posted by mojo 2004-07-16 1:49:06 PM|| 2004-07-16 1:49:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 " . . . remarks will be ``more of an invoking, or a call for action to ask our leaders to be guided by the lessons of history, logic, reason and science.''

Okay, fine and no problem. Of course, their particular politics will no doubt be defining those "lessons" the representatives are to learn.

I don't have a problem with Atheists. But the "no-religion" religion of the political Atheists is just as "religious," I've found, and pretty flat intolerant. They see themselves as superior, which makes them arrogant and unaccepting of other views. The fanatical ones are pretty forceful, to boot.

I'm certain they would hate this from George Washington (below), and I doubt they would agree with the idea of "thankfulness" as Aris nicely delineated, regarding the religious (gasp!) origins of the very country that protects their right to think and express whatever they believe in.

"Almighty God; We make our earnest prayer that Thou wilt keep the United States in Thy holy protection: that Thou wilt incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of surbordination and obedience to government, and entertain a brotherly affecton and love for one another and for their fellow citizens of the United States at large. And finally that Thou wilt most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to deman ourselves whth that charity, humility, and pacific temper of mind which weer the characterists of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, and without a humble imitation of whose example in these things we can never hope to be a happy nation. Grant our supplication, we beseech Thee, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen."

If this were uttered today, I can only imagine the red faces, the shaking fists, and the lawsuits . . . But the fact remains that the State is not to "govern" religious matters, in order to protect the rights of the citizenry to believe and practice whatever they want to. I just hope the Atheists have the same respect for those who are different than they are, as was intended by the Amendment itself. If everything goes "Atheist" then we're back to one "church," enforced by the government, which is a bad thing.

My $.02 worth.

LOL mojo!

Posted by ex-lib 2004-07-16 4:14:20 PM|| 2004-07-16 4:14:20 PM|| Front Page Top

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