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2004-05-11 Home Front: WoT

New Article by Seymour Hersh About the Interrogation Scandal

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Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-05-11 12:03:19 AM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 "Soon after 9/11, as the war on terror got under way, Donald Rumsfeld repeatedly made public his disdain for the Geneva conventions. Complaints about Americaâs treatment of prisoners, Rumsfeld said in early 2002, amounted to âisolated pockets of international hyperventilation.â "

Really Seymour? Then why not include quotes of Rumsfeld publicly disdaining the Geneva Convention. Should be very easy. Do a Google. I did and I can't find squat. Please provide supporting quotes.

"The photographing of prisoners, both in Afghanistan and in Iraq, seems to have been not random but, rather, part of the dehumanizing interrogation process."

No kidding?

The photograph of Johnny Taliban? That came from CNN! Jeezus.

See Hersch can't confine himself to real incidents of abuse. Doing that wouldn't "widen" the story, which he MUST do to keep it alive.
So he throws in an anecdote about how bad it was to keep prisoners up awake until they talked. The horror!

Posted by RMcLeod 2004-05-11 2:20:39 AM|| 2004-05-11 2:20:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 In all the hoopla, I have yet to see a clear statement from any of the brass concerning what is allowed in relation to deliberately depriving interrogation suspects of sleep, or warmth, or clothing, or food.

Depriving someone of sleep for 24 hours will probably not permanently harm him. Depriving him of sleep for 10 days will undoubtedly kill him.

So - where do you draw the line? 30 hours, 60 hours, 110 hours? Where does "professionally handled disorientation" turn into "abusive torture"?

If you take a prisoner in shorts and a T-shirt, and lock him up in a holding cage, with no warmth - to "soften him up" - where does "prfessional pre-interogation stress" turn into "abusive neglect"? At 20 degrees C for six hours? At 15 degrees C for 20 hours? At -5 degrrees C for a week? At 20 degrees C soaking wet, with a fan blowing?

I remember going through SERE training at Ranger School in 1976 - as a POW in a mock POW camp, run by Ranger Instructors (RI's). No permanent damage - but I'll tell you, that being beaten with a wet towel on the back and buttocks and legs - by a 250 lb Fijian RI - for about 30 strokes, with vigorous effort - that was about the worst beating I've ever received - and it was simply as part of training. Well, I wouldn't take money to go back to that again - but it was part of the training, to prepare for fighting.

Navy SEAL trainees shivering in the cold, early- morning surf at Coronado aren't having much fun either - and it doesn't matter if you are SGT Rock, or how tough you are - when hypothermia is half killing you, only the grit in your soul keeps you going. I remember crawling back and forth through the Ranger School "worm pits" at 3:00 am - and 4:00 am and 5:00 am. 'Not something I'd do to a POW under my control. But I understand the purpose, in the Ranger School context.

So - can prisoner detainees be exposed to the same conditions that we purposefully inflict upon our own elite trainees?

I think that until someone comes out with a REALLY clean standard for what is acceptable, in terms of "softening up" detainees ahead of interrogation, the situation will never be corrected.

It takes balls to simply be the top guy, set clear rules, and then demand compliance. It is cowardly leaders who simply mumble about it being the "repsonsibility of military intelligence" managers - or whatever.

The last thing you do as a member of the chain-of-command is to simply delegate all authority down to the lowest joe (or jane) tentpeg, and let them decide how far to go in "softening up" prisoners.

I don't have all that much sympathy for the "abused" detainees - my guess is that they ones we've seen in the photos weren't very nice people, and probably deserved worse than they got. But - I also understand that a leader can't maintain military discipline if he defers to "law of the jungle" between restrained prisoners and bullying guards.

Posted by Lone Ranger 2004-05-11 2:54:50 AM|| 2004-05-11 2:54:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 I deplore those who would say that torture is tough love. Torture is not tough love. Tough love is not torture. I deplore torture even if it is done in the name of tough love. If the American people can't understand my thinking, they can all go to hell. And don't question my resolve to kiss Saudi butt every chance I get.

Posted by George Wahabi Bush 2004-05-11 3:20:21 AM|| 2004-05-11 3:20:21 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 On January 16th, three days after the Army received the pictures, Central Command issued a blandly worded, five-sentence press release about an investigation into the mistreatment of prisoners.

Clearly Centcom should have issued a book-length, over-wrought press release!

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-05-11 7:08:43 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2004-05-11 7:08:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Recently listened to some Ranger training stories involving long marches, no sleep and cold... having to "cuddle" with "Sgt. Rock" to make it through the night. When the question of "Did you think you were ready to quit?" came up, the response was "Hell NO... I thought they (instructors) might kill me with the cold, but quitting after all that effort was not even in my mind." I was pretty awed by that distinction and really glad, mostly proud, they are on our side.

Posted by Capsu78 2004-05-11 11:07:39 AM|| 2004-05-11 11:07:39 AM|| Front Page Top

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