Article

2004-03-30 China-Japan-Koreas

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Posted by Steve White 2004-03-30 12:00:00 AM|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 At least wait for delivery of a reliable missle defense system!

Posted by Hyper 2004-03-30 12:28:59 AM|| 2004-03-30 12:28:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 The government in Taiwan IS the actual government of all China. China actually belongs to Taiwan, not the other way around.

Taiwan has every right to cut China loose and let them seek their own fame and fortune. But, China has absolutely no right whatsoever, to tell Taiwan ANYTHING!! Since when do the children tell the parents what to do?

Posted by Halfass Pete 2004-03-30 12:34:16 AM|| 2004-03-30 12:34:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 But, but, but, I heard today that the russkies have a sooper-secret weapon that will destroy any missile shield!

Posted by Anonymous2U 2004-03-30 1:15:57 AM|| 2004-03-30 1:15:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Halfass Pete, where in hell did you come up with that? China, as in mainland China, is the governing authority with the central gov. in Beijing. China has two major islands. One is Hainan and the other is Tiawan. I'll say this: Chen is courting a rocky road if you truly goes the independent route. People don't really understand the blood ties between the two. Politics is one thing but the unbreakable bond between Tiawan and mainland people is another. You have to be here to see it. I'll even go you one further. If mainland China was attacked Tiawan would be the first to respond to their aid. Chine ÃÃÃÂ·

Posted by Chiner 2004-03-30 1:45:16 AM|| 2004-03-30 1:45:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Chiner

I don't doubt about the blood links between the Han who came to Taiwan when China fell to Mao and the Chinese. But the Taiwanese proper have about as much blood links to China than the Tibetan, ie none at all, and I doubt any of them would be willing to die for China.

Posted by JFM 2004-03-30 6:19:15 AM|| 2004-03-30 6:19:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 where in hell did you come up with that?

I believe it was called the 'one China' policy?? With the question of which one being left unanswered. Smart man that Nixon.

Posted by Rafael 2004-03-30 7:21:18 AM|| 2004-03-30 7:21:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 "China actually belongs to Taiwan, not the other way around. "

For a very low value of "belongs" possibly.

The Taiwanese government has been elected by the people currently residing in Taiwan -- any previous mandate it may have had (which I don't believe it ever did) by the people of China as a whole would have long since expired.

So, if we're to argue moral "belonging", then I'd argue that Taiwan belongs to Taiwan, and the Chinese government doesn't have the right to claim any land anywhere given how it's people haven't given the mandate to be "belonged" by anyone at all.

The same way that I don't believe anyone could meaningfully say that West Germany belonged to East Germany, or vice versa.

And if we're to talk reunification, then that wouldn't be an issue of one side claiming ownership of the other, but the two of them coming together to heal a division.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-03-30 7:25:26 AM|| 2004-03-30 7:25:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Halfass is going on the assumption that Chiang Kai Shek's government was the legitimate government of all China. Of course, Mao kicked them out so that's history. BTW, Chiang's government was as corrupt as possible. Ol' "Peanut" was a member of the Green Gang (a triad society).

Posted by Spot 2004-03-30 8:54:13 AM|| 2004-03-30 8:54:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Aris,
Ideologically perfect as always, unfortunately when ideology meets reality it gets it's ass kicked.

Posted by domingo 2004-03-30 9:55:33 AM|| 2004-03-30 9:55:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Domingo> Discussions about "belonging" do tend to be situated on the moral level, atleast when such discussions are made by moral people. I never said my arguments changed anything about the actual number of troops located on each side.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-03-30 10:18:41 AM|| 2004-03-30 10:18:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 FYI, the Han Chinese first came to Taiwan in significant numbers when the Ming dynasty was overthrown by the Manchus.

However, interestingly, "By 1682 there were only 7000 Chinese left on Taiwan as they had intermarried with aboriginal women"

Posted by Carl in N.H 2004-03-30 12:10:26 PM|| 2004-03-30 12:10:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 I think that Taiwan has every right to declare independence, even if it starts a war. I seem to remember that when a certain North American colony declared independence from a tyranical monarchy, a long and bloody war ensued.

Posted by 11A5S 2004-03-30 12:31:58 PM|| 2004-03-30 12:31:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 The diplomatic status of Taiwan is the world's largest, longest-running game of "Let's Pretend" ever. Taiwan has its own elected government, distinct from that of the mainland, it administers laws within its territory, issues currency, has an army, and conducts foreign policy. In other words, Taiwan fits the classic definition of a soverign country. Yet, the U.S. (and the U.N., and the E.U., and son on) must pretend that it's not really there. The pretending may be in our immediate best interests, but it's still pretending.

Posted by Mike 2004-03-30 1:03:01 PM|| 2004-03-30 1:03:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Mike, it appears that Chen wants to up the stakes in the game (for better or worse) and quit pretending.
We should either make popcorn and/or head for the bomb shelter, because the ChiComs are NOT going to like it.
But it should be interesting, at the very least, for the non-Chinese playing along at home.

Posted by Jen 2004-03-30 1:23:49 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-03-30 1:23:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Chiner has a point. The ties, and I don't mean economic ones, between Taiwan and the Mainland are weird and strong. I am rabidly pro-Taiwan, but I've been there, and I have many Taiwanese friends here in the US...and I'm the only one that worries about Taiwan.

The attitude seems to be that Taiwan IS China and China IS Taiwan. They are insepperable...or so that's what people tell me.

Posted by Traveller 2004-03-30 4:00:33 PM|| 2004-03-30 4:00:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 What does Taiwan make of the conditions in Hong Kong?

Posted by Shipman 2004-03-30 6:33:43 PM|| 2004-03-30 6:33:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 SM: That it's the British fault.

Posted by Charles 2004-03-30 8:13:32 PM|| 2004-03-30 8:13:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 LOL!

Posted by Shipman 2004-03-30 8:32:20 PM|| 2004-03-30 8:32:20 PM|| Front Page Top

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