Article

2004-02-26

West Bank Wall Will Make Peace Settlement Difficult: Saud

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Posted by Fred Pruitt 2004-02-26 00:01|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Yeah? So what? It's rather simple (simplisme?) to see that the only "solution" the wall makes more difficult is the one where you assholes try to kill Israelis. Build it faster - it's working. Every squirming squeal confirms it.

The only Arab Renaissance likely will be posthumous.

Posted by .com 2004-2-26 3:49:31 AM|| 2004-2-26 3:49:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 I dont think the wall should be built as it is not right. Ariel Sharon needs to think about another solution.

Posted by Antiwar 2004-2-26 5:25:17 AM|| 2004-2-26 5:25:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Tell him it's a "cement filled pipe". That might calm him down.

Posted by tu3031 2004-2-26 8:45:39 AM|| 2004-2-26 8:45:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 What is wrong with the wall,Anti?
Seems pretty obvious that the Paleos like nothing better than to kill Israelies and anybody else that happens to be in the way.
I would think that anything that makes it more difficult to slaughter people is a good thing.

Posted by Raptor 2004-2-26 8:48:34 AM|| 2004-2-26 8:48:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 The wall is working. Nuff said. Idiots like Antiwar only dislike it because their heroes the Paleo's can't kill more Jewish children because of it. As a matter of fact it's such a good idea, we should build a wall around the entire Middle East, then wait for them to finish killing each other.

Posted by AllahHateMe 2004-2-26 8:53:30 AM|| 2004-2-26 8:53:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 And another thing, why the f*ck do people think the Israelis have any responsibility for providing the terrorists, umm I mean Paleo's with jobs? That's one of the biggest argument against the wall you hear. 'We can't work because of it' I've got an idea, how about building your own damn economy instead of blowing up kids!

Posted by AllahHateMe 2004-2-26 8:56:48 AM|| 2004-2-26 8:56:48 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 The wall is only a Band-Aid to the problem in the area. Even if they pacify the Palestinians by locking them in, Israel continues losing ground in the war of world opinion. They continue using draconian measures against a people with inferior (or non-existent) means to defend themselves who feel they have a similar right to the same land. If we assert the Israeli right to the land, how can we ignore the Palestinians' claims? It's a double standard, especially considering the Israelis' modern claim has some base in the Balfort declaration which was not law, nor meant to be at the time. I don't support either party's claim more than the other. How can we ignore the reality--both sides use terrorist methodology. That assertion should be no shock to anyone. In this age of easily obtained explosives and IED's, a solution that does not lead to peace (acceptable to both sides) will only postpone more violence... Rational people throughout the world, as they study the situation, will find it hard not to conclude neither side is totally right. One last note, not all Palestinians want this violence, just like not all Israelis support Sharon and the wall. Just like not all Americans are cowboys and mega rich (typical uneducated views held by many people in other countries about Americans).

Posted by chainhead 2004-2-26 10:53:00 AM|| 2004-2-26 10:53:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Idiots like Antiwar
how come antiwar cant give him opinion without someone calling him names. would you like it if someone call you names they dont like what you say. that si not good debate.

Posted by muck4doo 2004-2-26 11:23:59 AM|| 2004-2-26 11:23:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Last I checked the wall is to keep Paleoboomers out.
Take a look at a map there is alot of non-Iraelie border.

Posted by Raptor 2004-2-26 12:17:33 PM|| 2004-2-26 12:17:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 chainhead:
Draconian measures? How can you label what they have done as anything but kid gloves? Proper response to a suicide bomber is to execute the guys home town en masse.

Reguarding your NPR post above, I stopped listening to NPR in the early 90's because of the blatant bias.

If Israel were really evil, they would secretly arm and encourage more radical settler groups, then move the army in to "protect" them. That would give Israel a permanent offensive they could reasonably deny, and it would be a good counterpoint to what Arafat is doing.

Why don't YOU go do some research before you speak?

Posted by flash91 2004-2-26 1:18:25 PM|| 2004-2-26 1:18:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 "Israel continues losing ground in the war of world opinion."

I think Israelis treasure more the ability to stay alive and be condemned than to be wistfully remembered after the last dead Jooooo is pushed by Paleo death cults into the Med. The difference between the two puts your moral equivalence into the "pathetic" category

Posted by Frank G 2004-2-26 1:20:50 PM|| 2004-2-26 1:20:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Oh this is going to get interesting, methinks.

AW's on record as totally pro-Paleo and defenseless regards actual facts, mucky is either a spaz or a drunk and slower than slow on the up-take, and chainhead can recite his official Saab Erakat dogma manual without missing a comma, much less a shop-worn pseudo-fact. Cool!

I guess it would be too much to ask of this trinity of apologists to go back to the beginning, acquaint themselves with the actual facts in context, and then come back for a real debate...

But it'll be fun while it lasts!

Posted by .com 2004-2-26 1:32:53 PM|| 2004-2-26 1:32:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Why do the Israelis assert a claim to the area? What is the fundamental difference between their claim and the Palestinians'? The defining rift is in technology and available weaponry.

Do the Palestinians commit suicide bombings just for fun? No, they also feel they have a right to the land and the only message that has worked in reaching the world, in their view, is one of explosions and blood.

No matter how you label the Israeli methodology, it is such that young Palestinians are lining up in bomb vests because they feel they will be killed by the Israelis sooner or later so it'd be better to die on their own terms and take some Israelis out with them. Couple that fatalism with a promise of paradise with everything they can't have in this life and.. boom, you have a vitriolic mix.

Any effort to ignore their claims to the same rights we all desire is to ignore the powerful motivation of a committed group of people.

Can you deny if situations were reversed that we wouldn't feel solidarity with the Israelis in their oppression? That we wouldn't assist in what the dominant Palestinian governing circles (and surrounding Arab governments) would label terrorist operations? That we wouldn't wish for all the peoples of the world to recognize Israel's right to exist as its own nation? I submit we would do that and feel justly vindicated in that wish.

Posted by chainhead 2004-2-26 1:46:20 PM|| 2004-2-26 1:46:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 BTW: I do NOT condone Palestinian behavior--Suicide bombings are an atrocity. I am simply saying I can understand why they act as they do.

Posted by chainhead 2004-2-26 1:58:17 PM|| 2004-2-26 1:58:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Tool.

Posted by .com 2004-2-26 2:02:54 PM|| 2004-2-26 2:02:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 chainhead...I take issue with your tired assertion that suicide bombers do it out of desperation. They are not reluctant martyrs, hand forced by israeli oppression. Much the opposite. Time after time, I have seen interviews with these people in which, IN THEIR OWN WORDS, they express eagerness and excitement to martyr themselves for "the cause". "The Cause" is indoctrinated into them by a corrupt, thieving, murderous system engineered by an old EVIL man who cares only for the size of his Swiss bank account, and retaining his power. They kill, because they are told, from childhood, that killing is the key to untold rapture. Celebration of death is institutionalized in their culture. Your viewpoint seems to be the mistaken and well-meaning one of consigning rational motives onto what is an irrational and worthless society from a traditional, Western stance. The desperation they feel is NOT a result of "Israeli oppression" it is a result of the Palestinian cause becoming the cause celebre of every arab dictatorship, propped and supported by those dictators and their lackeys, the European elites.

Israel is being martyred on the altar of worldwide greed and oppression, through the proxy war of these criminal states, executed through the Palestinians.

Posted by mjh 2004-2-26 2:38:44 PM|| 2004-2-26 2:38:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Chainhead is just another fool. Talking about paleo's rights to the land. Sorry, they have no rights to that land. As a matter of fact there is no such thing as a "palestinian" anyways. Those people are Jordanian's and Egyptians put into a permanent refugee status by their own corrupt governments and the UN. Used as pawn's in the proxy war being waged against Israel by the islamocreeps.

muck4doo, you want debate? Try bringing some facts to the table instead of tired, rehashed lies. F*ck you and f*ck the jor-dyptians. They don't DESERVE a country. At various times in the past they have been offered more concessions than they deserve and every time they just start blowing shit up again. Until IDIOTS like you get your head out of your ass and realize that they don't want peace, they want Israel gone and the Jews dead, then I suggest you, antiwar and chainhead sit in the corner and STFU.

Posted by AllahHateMe 2004-2-26 2:57:45 PM|| 2004-2-26 2:57:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 There is no question that many of the suicide operatives of today are excited by the work they will engage in. The last stat I read on the issue stated nearly 75% of Palestinian youth look forward to being shaheeds (martyrs) in Allah's cause. That is partially the result of indoctrination from a young age by their old Evil Man's institution, but would that fate be so eagerly embraced if there were another option available to them? If they thought they could have a happy life any way other than going to paradise? The Palestinian mothers state how proud they are their children are blowing themselves up. It is doubtful they would feel the same way if their kids had another, brighter option for their future.

It's the same kids who are so eager to become martyrs that are saying they would rather die attempting to take out some of their oppressors (their view) than being crushed under an Israeli tank tread. Hence my comment about them "lining up in bomb vests." Let me change that to eagerly lining up in bomb vests.

Blame? Partially, the institution that indoctrinates them, partially, the environment that shapes their existence.

Posted by chainhead 2004-2-26 3:02:10 PM|| 2004-2-26 3:02:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 allahahteme i never say anything about palasneans just that name calling is not good debate!

Posted by muck4doo 2004-2-26 3:47:59 PM|| 2004-2-26 3:47:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 chaintime...I think we are getting close to agreement here. THe Palestinians need another option. But FOR WHAT REASON and BY WHAT LOGIC, is it the responsibility of Israel (a separate, sovereign state) to provide those opportunities?

Palestinians are prisoners...but they are prisoners to their own backward system. The "environment that shapes their existence" is the Palestinian "state", institutions, and leaders
NOW...tell me why Israel should be saddled with the burden of dealing with the results, and correcting the morass of this system next door. (An expectation, I might add, expected of no other state in the world except for the US--witness Frances empty calls for an "international"--read American force to intervene in Haiti).

NOW...assuming that we agree Israel should not be saddled with that burden, what are the options available to Israel? 1.) Total warfare until unconditional surrender; 2.) Surrender and cease to exist as a democratic state; 3.) disengagement.

Given those three options, they are choosing the ONLY option left open to them. And sycophantic arabophiles and pie in the sky internationalists need to realize this fact.

Posted by mjh 2004-2-26 3:58:18 PM|| 2004-2-26 3:58:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Psst.... VRC is that you?

Posted by Shipman 2004-2-26 5:06:03 PM|| 2004-2-26 5:06:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Nope...but VRC mus' be a smart feller ;)

Posted by mjh 2004-2-26 5:13:21 PM|| 2004-2-26 5:13:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 chainhead:

It's the same kids who are so eager to become martyrs that are saying they would rather die attempting to take out some of their oppressors (their view) than being crushed under an Israeli tank tread.

Now this is just ridiculous. The Israelis are going around running over 'Palestinian' (made up name) kids with tanks?

They have a thoroughly modern military, they've beaten multiple Arab armies several times. They have nuclear weapons, There is no nation on the face of this Earth that is more of a pariah state than Israel, so if they wanted the 'Palestinians' out of the way, they would no longer exist.

If the 'Palestinians' behaved the way they do with an Arab state, I wonder what would happen.

Oh sorry, forgot - Jordan killed about 2000 PLO 'fighters' and several thousand civilians in 1970, after some the PLO did some hijackings and blew up the planes in 'Palestinian'-controlled North Jordan - started off the Black September group didn't it.

Posted by Tony (UK) 2004-2-26 5:43:17 PM|| 2004-2-26 5:43:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal said yesterday that the wall being built by Israel in the West Bank will make any peaceful settlement of the Arab-Israeli conflict extremely difficult.
They just do not get it. The wall IS the peace settlement.

Oh, one minor point. Any Palestinian attempt to breach the Wall will be considered an act of war. Those new F16I birds? Govern yourselves accordingly.

Posted by john 2004-2-26 8:16:32 PM|| 2004-2-26 8:16:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 I appreciate mjh actually having a dialogue and not simply an attack-a-logue. As for the answer to the Pal-Isr question, I don't have it, myself. My only point is that we can't just use a broad brush and only blame the Palestinians for their plight. Who was living on that ground before WWI? The Palestinians. The Brits and France drew arguably very arbitrary lines all through the Middle East ignoring tribal and cultural ties that have existed for centuries. The state of Israel was arbitrarily created and when the Brits tried to reign in the Israelis, they embarked on very focused terrorist activities with the goal of getting the Brits to butt out. It worked and they had their state.

While I can't claim to have a solution to the problem, I do hope we recognize the Palestinians (not Jordanians and Egyptians) had the land before the Israelis began their return from the diaspora and now they have been displaced from it. The idea that Palestine is a made up name or that they don't exist as a people is as ridiculous as asserting there was no holocaust.

The Romans displaced the Jews anciently and renamed the province they lived in Palestine, as that was its name prior to the Jews. If you wish to assert the Jews' right to the land by their ancient claim, then you, by default, have to go even further and grant the same to the Palestinians.

Somewhere in here, I think the Brits have a share of responsibility for how things have shaped up in the area. Any thoughts? Or did Israel just fabricate the right to return to their promised land without any international support?

And Tony, Palestinians have been crushed under Israeli vehicles. The incident I was thinking of was when Israeli vehicles moved into Palestinian areas with big construction vehicles and knocked down houses in which Palestinians were taking refuge. I did take a little liberty in choosing that death from the many possible that the young might prefer to avoid by performing a martyrdom operation.

Posted by Anonymous 2004-2-26 10:00:02 PM|| 2004-2-26 10:00:02 PM|| Front Page Top

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