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2006-12-08 Europe

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Posted by Steve White 2006-12-08 00:09|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 XWB stands for cross wired b*tch. heh.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2006-12-08 01:47|| 2006-12-08 01:47|| Front Page Top

#2 I'm going to rename it the XLT -- extra large turkey.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2006-12-08 10:19|| 2006-12-08 10:19|| Front Page Top

#3 Just speculation here, but a lot of this A350 XWB seems more to do with preservation of supply base than beating Boeing, let alone just competing with Boeing. ALong with having the tick-box for a similar bird.

A lot, and I mean a lot, of AirBus suppliers have slowed up due to A380. If there is nothing next/after A380, many of them will flee to other OEMs. Note, they all work with the other OEMs already, but recently it has been a balance between Boeing and Airbus ... if there is no next thing, they'll shift to other smaller OEMs and more Boeing.

Both are having supply chain problems these days, so any loss of a critical supplier - or I should say any focus loss or urgency loss from a critical supplier would really hurt things.

Again, speculation, but I think it is more about 'yeah, yeah, A380 delayed and has problems, but hang with us, will give you better positions on A350'

Posted by bombay">bombay 2006-12-08 10:36|| 2006-12-08 10:36|| Front Page Top

#4 Two things to note.

First, Boeing has outsourced much of its parts manufacturing to suppliers around the globe. That has reduced costs to the company, including initial launch costs, and has reduced it's exposure to any one currency. Airbus has kept manufacturing in-house, which means it must shoulder all of the launch costs, does not shop for lower priced supply and is exposed to fluctuations in the Euro. (The only exception is a new deal to produce the A320 for the Chinese market). Boeing will have huge cost and flexibility advantages over Airbus as the two companies move forward.

Second, keep in mind that the 787 is still in development and, like the A380, is incorporating a lot of new technology. There is still a lot of risk to the 787 program; Boeing will undoubtedly suffer if it stumbles.

Posted by DoDo 2006-12-08 11:51|| 2006-12-08 11:51|| Front Page Top

#5 I can say, without doubt, that AirBus does shop for better supply options, does outsource, etc - often with a very heavy hand. Can we say Route '06?

Note, also outsourcing is risky, and the airframers feel it ... not fun having Boeing or AirBus living at your site after you've stopped a line roll. So you have to balance both sides of the coin.

In many cases, AirBus is in a better position on launch costs due to euro subsidies, and obviously on design funding as well.

Ture, 787 is in development, but it is progressing through design risk and into mfg risk.

Anybody in Aerospace will suffer if they stumble these days. That's a given now, be it AirBus, Boeing, LM, Gulf, Embraer, etc. There's no room for anybody to mess up - esp. with the outsourcing and deep integration of JIT / Lean / etc that they are working towards with suppliers.

I agree, that on a go forward basis, Boeing appears in much better position.

Posted by bombay">bombay 2006-12-08 14:10|| 2006-12-08 14:10|| Front Page Top

#6 Couple updates: Lst week, Airbus told prospective A350 suppliers that they would be expected to 'contribute' as much as 15% to the development cost of this aircraft.
They also are planning to build the A350 very similiar to an aluminum-skinned aircraft. they are planning on using carbon panels fastened to aluminum ribs. stringers. bulkheads. There will not be a lot of weight saved, and more costs due to required use of exotic metals for fasteners or risk severe corrosion due to galvanic action between the carbon and convnetional aluminum / steel fasteners.
Boeing's plan to bring completed and fully plumbed / outfitted sections of the 787 to Everett and then snap them together like legos looks to be running into some initial difficulty as they have publicly admitted to having to have some 'travel work' done in Everett.

Posted by USN, Ret. 2006-12-08 14:47|| 2006-12-08 14:47|| Front Page Top

#7 Hard to believe Airbus is going to use riveted CF panels. Not only will it be overweight but labor intensive to build compared to 787 fuselages laid down by automated CF tape machinery. To further add to Airbus problems, the next gen 777 should be available a little after the A350, bracketing it from the top and bottom. Airbus should take the time and effort to correctly design the A350.

Posted by ed 2006-12-08 15:54|| 2006-12-08 15:54|| Front Page Top

#8 USN,

That's the heavy handed supply side, but along with that 15% are some serious gains ... in the form of exclusive supply.

To be honest, the galvanic concern is kind of moot, as modern coating methodologies are there. It seems more of an adhesive issue and/or vibration isolation issue - as the mating surfaces are far different.

Posted by bombay">bombay 2006-12-08 22:19|| 2006-12-08 22:19|| Front Page Top

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