Article

2006-03-23 Africa North

Algeria bans Muslims from learning about Christianity

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Posted by tipper 2006-03-23 00:02|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 What a pathetic excuse for a religion Islam is.

Posted by CrazyFool 2006-03-23 00:11|| 2006-03-23 00:11|| Front Page Top

#2 Islam is not a religion. The mullah-tyrants use the Qoran the same way Lenin used the Communist Manifesto and Mao his Little Red Book.

Unless you want to call communism a religion.

Posted by anymouse">anymouse 2006-03-23 00:33|| 2006-03-23 00:33|| Front Page Top

#3 Eventually, the non-muslims will have to return the favor.

Posted by ed 2006-03-23 01:01|| 2006-03-23 01:01|| Front Page Top

#4 One might even suppose the more curious amongst the ummah might be made more interested to know what the fuss is all about by this sort of heavy handed fiat. Of course, the Algerians are acting in accord with longstanding Islamic norms, so it probably seems appropriate to a lot of Muslims, rather than the mark of self-conscious insecurity it seems to outsiders. Of course it violates the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, but who really cares about such things anyway, unless the US is involved, and in that case neither the facts nor the law should stand in the way of world wide condemnation making the actual sources of international law amusing but irrelevent.

Posted by Baba Tutu 2006-03-23 02:45|| 2006-03-23 02:45|| Front Page Top

#5 One might even suppose the more curious amongst the ummah might be made more interested to know what the fuss is all about by this sort of heavy handed fiat.

Until one recalls that the ummah actually approves of these laws.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2006-03-23 05:27|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2006-03-23 05:27|| Front Page Top

#6 Muslims demand respect for their religion, while they disrespect others. No quid pro quo there.

Posted by Listen to Dogs 2006-03-23 05:38|| 2006-03-23 05:38|| Front Page Top

#7 More and more Berbers see Islam and specially the wahabism promoted by governemnt as a tool of Arab domination.

There is even a timid rebirth of Christianity between them.

The islamo/panarabist governemnt has an interest in islamism since it led the country to poverty and corruption and its only legitimacy derives from "having expelled the infidels" thus the movement towards leaving Islam is a mortal danger to the government.

Posted by JFM">JFM 2006-03-23 07:21|| 2006-03-23 07:21|| Front Page Top

#8 More and more Berbers see Islam and specially the wahabism promoted by governemnt as a tool of Arab domination.

It took them 1,000 years to realize this?

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2006-03-23 07:42|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2006-03-23 07:42|| Front Page Top

#9 The real story is that Moslems are leaving Islam in droves, most of whom are converting to Christianity, and this has the Mullahs scared out of their wits.

The irony is that the Christians don't have to prozelytize at all, the wannabe ex-Moslems come looking for them, utterly revolted at everything Islam represents.

Posted by Anonymoose 2006-03-23 08:15|| 2006-03-23 08:15|| Front Page Top

#10 Honestly, 'moose, that sounds more like fantasy than reality to me.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2006-03-23 08:16|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2006-03-23 08:16|| Front Page Top

#11 Does anyone see wide spread evidence in intellectual curiosity in Muslim countries? I think most Muslims like the fact that Islam has rules for everything. Easier not to have to think.

Posted by SR-71">SR-71 2006-03-23 08:30|| 2006-03-23 08:30|| Front Page Top

#12 RC,
I don't know about droves, but I have heard of significant numbers of converts in Nigeria, Algeria and Saudi Arabia. In fact the Persian Gulf has a lot of secret Christians. This is one of the reasons for the rise is Islamic Fundamentalism.

Al

Posted by Frozen Al">Frozen Al 2006-03-23 09:11|| 2006-03-23 09:11|| Front Page Top

#13 There will always be some percentage of the general population who rebel and question everything. The leftists, if you will, but every group has them. Just as there will always be those who fight against change. There are also people who asess everything and gravitate toward a better standard of living. These folks must be frustrated under Islam where only a standard of dying is improved.

Posted by wxjames 2006-03-23 09:15|| 2006-03-23 09:15|| Front Page Top

#14 Sorry, but people can make claims about secret conversions all day long; they're unfalsifiable. I hereby claim that everyone in China is now secretly worshipping me as a god -- prove they're not!

There no doubt are secret converts, but I don't think they're a significant number.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2006-03-23 09:15|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2006-03-23 09:15|| Front Page Top

#15 Falun Gongford. I'm in. :)

Posted by Ulinter Elmock7099 2006-03-23 10:26|| 2006-03-23 10:26|| Front Page Top

#16 Its fairly simple:

Christianity, in a free and open "marketplace of ideas" tends to thrive. It has done so world-wide for a couple thousand years. Its has survived, and thrives even today in the midst of unbridled consumerism in the US, that is, when it is allowed to compete fairly (i.e. not banned by the ACLU and similar). Christianity has had centuries of critical examination from inside and out,and has had to deal intellectually with that.

Islam, on the other hand, cannot survive contact with any rational or spiritual opposition. Ineeded, it voida ANY rational or critical thought, and forbids it in most cases. Its creator Muhammed realized that, and set up rules to insulate Islam against outside influence - much like any other cult, c.f. Scientology. Whats not in the book is forbidden and its is forbidden to interpret the book as well.

Posted by OldSpook 2006-03-23 10:30|| 2006-03-23 10:30|| Front Page Top

#17 Beware, OS, you "religiosity" is showing. You're gonna get a thorough (10,000 word) thrashing from the Resident Secularist. Or not, heh.

Posted by Ulinter Elmock7099 2006-03-23 10:41|| 2006-03-23 10:41|| Front Page Top

#18 "More and more Berbers see Islam and specially the wahabism promoted by governemnt as a tool of Arab domination.

It took them 1,000 years to realize this?"

Well first, Wahabism wasnt even invented till about 300 years ago (though it has roots in some older fundamentalist strains of Islam.

Second, Algeria used to be part of the Turkish empire, whose official form of Islam was not Wahabist. And of course the Ottoman empire hardly enforced arab domination.

France took Algeria in 1830, and didnt leave till 1960.

So the Berbers have had at most 46 years to figure this out. And Wahabism, IIUC, didnt become a big force in Algeria till the 1980s.

Posted by liberalhawk 2006-03-23 10:44|| 2006-03-23 10:44|| Front Page Top

#19 That's still over 24 million minutes. Who needs more than 1 or 2?

Posted by Ulinter Elmock7099 2006-03-23 10:47|| 2006-03-23 10:47|| Front Page Top

#20 ... much like any other cult, c.f. Scientology. Whats not in the book is forbidden and its is forbidden to interpret the book as well.

I could not agree more with your entire post OldSpook. Fundamentalism, in any guise, is proving to be a significant threat to our modern world. We should all be thankful that Christianity went through its own reformation long before the advent of WMDs. Sadly, Islam has not the least intention of reforming itself and currently seeks WMDs as well. This lethal combination requires swift and decisive action, the sort of which has not been seen since WWII. I fear that many in the intervening generations may have lost much of the self-preservation instinct and discriminatory faculties required to even understand the peril that confronts them. It is exactly the popularity of cults like Scientology that reinforce this notion.

Beware, OS, you "religiosity" is showing. You're gonna get a thorough (10,000 word) thrashing from the Resident Secularist. Or not, heh.

UE7099, your pathetic attempt to conflate "religiosity" with informed and realistic observation is duly noted. Would you like to bet on good Mr. OldSpook's issuing any sort of mealy-mouthed reply with respect to our curtailing domestic freedom of speech over the Mohammed cartoons? You know, one like our state department did.

[crickets]

Posted by Zenster 2006-03-23 11:24|| 2006-03-23 11:24|| Front Page Top

#21 Those aren't crickets, that's a sucking sound.

Posted by phased array 2006-03-23 11:37|| 2006-03-23 11:37|| Front Page Top

#22 Of your brains through a straw.

Posted by Zenster 2006-03-23 11:43|| 2006-03-23 11:43|| Front Page Top

#23 LOL.

Posted by phased array 2006-03-23 11:44|| 2006-03-23 11:44|| Front Page Top

#24 #10 Honestly, 'moose, that sounds more like fantasy than reality to me.
Robert
Check this link

Posted by tipper 2006-03-23 12:46|| 2006-03-23 12:46|| Front Page Top

#25 Sorry, but I still don't buy claims about secret conversions. They're unfalsifiable, and so automatically suspect.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2006-03-23 12:49|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2006-03-23 12:49|| Front Page Top

#26 One can only hope that this trend continues, sorta like the campaign against race records (blues and rock and roll) in the 1950s.

Posted by Perfessor 2006-03-23 12:57|| 2006-03-23 12:57|| Front Page Top

#27 Sociologist Ilyas Ba-Yunus, Ph.D. The State University of New York College at Cortland, via Daniel Pipes:

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/36878

Posted by Anonymoose 2006-03-23 15:52|| 2006-03-23 15:52|| Front Page Top

#28 All any beleiver should require is that everyone be given the freedom to express their belief and freedom to believe as they wish, so long as they do not violate other's freedom to do so, and do not physically impose on each other in doing so, nor violate the commonly accepted (Non-Religious) standards society agrees upon (Sorry Fred Phelps, no interrupting funerals, Sorry Islam - no conversions at swordpoint, sorry Communists - no seizing anything "for the proletariat", Sorry Moloch-ists, no human sacrifices).

In the Bible, Christ knocks at the door and its up to you to open it (or not - you have a CHOICE). He doesnt bash it in and come swinging a scimitar, leaving you unable to choose.

To put things in simpler terms, and speaking personally as a Christian:

I base my values on FAITH. True Faith has no need of goonery or legal enforecment ultimately at the point of a gun, because it to be FAITH, it must be held personally and given voluntarily. To do otherwise would render the term Faith, itself, meaningless.

A coerced profession of faith has about as much validity as a coerced confession of muder. No matter what the means of coersion.

Personally, I have no need to be protected from other religions, nor from secularism or atheism for that matter. Were my faith so weak that I needed such things I could scarecely call it faith. Indeed, my exploration of alternatives has helped my faith: I've been an ardent atheist (in college, when I was a socialistic liberal too), a genuine agnostic (for many years doubt ruled my life), even Zen Buddhist for 5 years. All that has lead to my conversion to Christianity and Catholicism to be all the stronger.

Islam (and most fundamentalism of any stripe) apparently has no faith in its "faithful". How sad an indictment that is of the shallowness of the core of Islam.

Posted by OldSpook 2006-03-23 16:47|| 2006-03-23 16:47|| Front Page Top

#29 Conversely you could say that the faith of the fanatic is the weakest of them all. Only grave doubts can support such all-consuming, passionate and violent superstition.

Religion or philosophy to a fanatic is just window dressing to his unbearably small definition of reality, trying to force the vastness of the universe into his petty dichotomy of good and evil.

Posted by Anonymoose 2006-03-23 17:43|| 2006-03-23 17:43|| Front Page Top

#30 Eric Hoffer--- "The True Believer", argued that fanatics of every extreme were all driven alike by deep-seated doubts... and belonging to a mass movement gave them a purpose, and a way to paper over their own inadequacy and self-doubts. And so, they shouted and ranted, and came down like a ton of bricks on anything that threatened those beliefs with special vigor, because a threat to their belief system was a strike at their own, secretly doubting hearts.
Or words to that effect. A useful book. It's helped me to get a grip on a certain mind-set ever since I had to read it in college.

Posted by Sgt. Mom">Sgt. Mom 2006-03-23 19:00|| www.sgtstryker.com]">[www.sgtstryker.com] 2006-03-23 19:00|| Front Page Top

#31 I saw an old article yesterday (from some years ago), in which it was related that some imam was calling for the faithful to arise, because Muslims were converting to Christianity at the rate of 600+/day. I've no idea if this is true, but even out of a base of billions that's still an interesting number. And of course, those that convert, or choose to leave organized religion altogether, are going to be the most clear thinking and creative of the group... those that refuse to allow others to think for them.

Posted by trailing wife 2006-03-23 22:26|| 2006-03-23 22:26|| Front Page Top

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