UNITED NATIONS - Pakistan's prime minister said Friday no "tangible evidence" has been found that al-Qaida operatives were among those killed in a U.S. missile strike on a border village last week.
Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz said security agencies in the area of Damadola "have not found any tangible evidence that a particular group or any individual was there."
A senior Pakistani intelligence official earlier told The Associated Press that al-Qaida figures were casualties of the Jan. 13 attack, which killed 13 villagers.
Officials believe at least four foreign militants may also have died, including an al-Qaida explosives and chemical weapons expert and a son-in-law of the terror network's No. 2 leader, Ayman al-Zawahri.
The intelligence official said the al-Qaida operatives had gathered in Damadola to discuss "new attacks" in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Despite widespread protests across Pakistan this week calling for the ouster of Pakistan President Gen. Pervez Musharraf, a close ally of the U.S., Aziz told reporters that his nation stands solidly behind the United States and its fight against terrorists.
"As regards the relations between Pakistan and the United States, or our conviction about fighting terrorism, there is no question that Pakistan is one of the countries which has done the most because we believe terorrism is no solution to any problems," he said.
But the prime minister â at the U.N. to meet with U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan â underscored that the government of Pakistan condemned the U.S. airstrike.
Aziz said he will raise the issue with President Bush when the two meet next week in Washington in what he termed a "wide-ranging discussion."
Iran, which shares a border with the nuclear-armed Pakistan, and its alleged push to build a nuclear weapon came up when Aziz spoke with Annan.
"Pakistan is opposed to proliferation in any form," Aziz said.
Aziz did say, however, that Iran has the right to use nuclear power to meets its legitimate energy needs, as long as it is done under the auspices of the International Atomic Energy Agency.
A.Q. Khan, a national hero known as the father of Pakistan's atomic bomb, ran a network smuggling nuclear technology overseas â including to Iran, according to the IAEA â and the country's nuclear program has come under widespread criticism, particularly for proliferation concerns.
Pakistan is not a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, the cornerstone of global efforts to control the spread of nuclear weapons
Would somebody please explain what this load of tripe is all about? Very strange.
Security forces backed by army helicopters launched a massive hunt in areas along Bangladeshâs western border on Thursday after an intelligence tip off that top fugitive Islamist militants were hiding there, officials said. Some 1,000 police, troops and members of the elite Rapid Action battalion searched several villages near the town of Kushtia, some 300 kilometres from the capital Dhaka, while four helicopters patrolled the sky, police and witnesses said. âForces have been conducting block raids in a wide region of Kushtia but have yet to catch the militants,â one police officer said.
Officials said they were looking for Shayek Abdur Rahman, supreme leader of the outlawed Jamaat-ul-Mujahideen blamed for a recent wave of bombings, including suicide attacks that killed at least 30 people and wounded 150 in the past few months. Police were also searching for Siddikul Islam Bangla Bhai, leader of another banned Islamic group, Jagrata Muslim Janata Bangladesh, and a close comrade of Shayek Rahman. âWe have tips that Shayek Abdur Rahman is hiding in the area. Maybe Bangla Bhai is also with him,â another police officer said.
It's over: An operation to find two suspected Islamic militants said to be hiding in Bangladesh's western Kushtia district has been called off, police say. The hunt ended because Abdur Rahman and Bangla Bhai from the banned Jamaat-ul Mujahideen Bangladesh (JMB) could not be found. Police say they have detained 10 people in the operation. One thousand security personnel were involved in night-long operations, police chief Abdul Quyum said.
Earlier, security forces, including elite anti-crime force the Rapid Action Battalion (RAB), had cordoned off a 5-sq km area in Kushtia district. Police would not confirm if any of the 10 detained included JMB members.
Abu Hamza spoke to MI5 and Special Branch on several occasions but was told he could continue to preach "as long as we don't see blood on the street," a court was told yesterday.
The Muslim cleric said he discussed suicide bombing in a number of lengthy interviews lasting more than an hour and a half.
He also described working on a building project at the Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst and said he had kept the plans and taken them to Afghanistan.
Hamza took the witness stand yesterday in his own defence at the Old Bailey, dressed in traditional Muslim shalwar kamis and black shoes, his grey hair close-cropped.
He is accused of nine counts of soliciting to murder, four counts of using threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour and two further counts of possessing abusive recordings with a view to distribution and possession of a document useful to preparing terrorism. He denies the charges.
Hamza said he had been watched by MI5 and added: "They told me they are watching so many groups, there was no suggestion I was singled out.
"It was Londonistan, not because of me, because of Government policy."
It was only in the later stages of his interviews with the security service, between 1997 and 2000, that Hamza, the former preacher at Finsbury Park mosque, was told he was "walking a tightrope", he said.
He added: "They said they didn't like [the speeches]. I mentioned Salman Rushdie and my position in the mosque."
Hamza claimed that his interviews with Special Branch were relaxed, with one officer smiling, and walking him to his car.
He added: "They said you have freedom of speech, you don't have to worry as long as we don't see blood on the street. They said until now there is no law against those who commit offences outside England - resistance - but it will come."
Between 1986 and 1989, Hamza studied civil engineering at Brighton Polytechnic and the court was told that one of his first jobs was a building project at Sandhurst to demolish an old office, build a car park and repair the perimeter fence.
Hamza said he had been the sole engineer on the project and that he had kept the plans.
"They were very crucial document to any terrorist if they want to do anything," he added.
By that stage he had already met Abdullah Azzam, the leader of the mujahideen in Afghanistan, on a pilgrimage to Mecca and been invited to join them.
When the building company went out of business in 1991, Hamza emigrated to Afghanistan to help with the rebuilding following the Soviet withdrawal but he lost his hands in an accident in 1993 and returned to London.
He visited Bosnia in 1995 after he had recovered and on his return he took up preaching positions, first in Luton and then at Finsbury Park.
The Sandhurst plans were taken from Hamza's home when he was arrested in 1999 but returned nine months later, the court was told.
Opening the defence case, Edward Fitzgerald QC told the jury: "Let me accept from the start that he has said things which most people will find deeply offensive and hateful but he's not on trial for describing England as a toilet or denouncing democracy or dreaming of a caliph in the White House. There is no crime in being offensive."
He argued that Hamza was urging his followers not to murder British people but to fight in holy wars where Muslims were being killed in Afghanistan, Algeria, Bosnia, Kosovo and Palestine.
Asked if he had ever intended to urge or incite murder, Hamza replied: "In the context of murder, no. In the context of fighting, yes."
Hamza admitted that he would like to see a caliph (Muslim leader) in Downing Street and Muslims "control the whole Earth".
The court was told that Hamza, 47, was born in Egypt and studied civil engineering at Alexandria University but dropped out after three years of a five-year course and moved to Britain in 1979, aged 21. He was given leave to stay and married his first wife in 1980 before divorcing in 1983. He married his second wife, a British citizen, in 1984 in a Muslim ceremony and now has seven children.
When he started 9/11 hadn't happened. The July attacks on the London subway hadn't happened. Now they have, and the authorities (well some of them, anyway) understand that the vicious swill he's been spouting is actually bottle blood-in-the-streets. And they are acting on it. Too bad for him.
An ideologist of Wahhabism, Supyan Abdulayev, was destroyed in Chechnya on Wednesday. He was a ringleader of the gangs in the Vedeno region and led a group with foreign mercenaries, Chechen Interior Minister Ruslan Alkhanov told Itar-Tass. âOfficers of the criminal investigation agency of the Grozny Regional Interior Department and the OMON of the Chechen Interior Ministry found out on Wednesday that three active participants in the gang led by Shamil Basayev were hiding in a dwelling house of the village Agishty of the Shali region,â Alkhanov said. During a skirmish, all the three gunmen were killed. Their identity was established in the morning. âThese are Sypyan Abdulayev, a native of the Vedeno region, Movladi Magomadov and Salim Mustapayev,â the minister said.
According to the interior minister, Abdulayev was one of the closest associates of Basayev and one of the main ideologists of Wahhabism equally with Movladi Udugov and so-called minister of Shariat security Ismail Khalilov. Besides, according to the law enforcement bodies, Abdulayev was a member of the so-called supreme spiritual council of the mejlis of Ichkeria.
According to the Interior Ministry, the deputy chief of the battalion of the Grozny rural Interior Department died and a police officer got injuries in the operation. The gunmen had a lot of weapons with them. âThree Kalashnikov sub-machine-guns, three Makarov pistol, a Shmel flame thrower, six grenades, over 1,000 cartridges of different calibre and three radio stations were confiscated from them,â representatives the ministry said.
A notorious former Serb paramilitary leader accused of war crimes is behind bars in a maximum-security prison after federal police armed with an Interpol arrest warrant seized the golf instructor in a midnight raid at a Sydney apartment.
Four months after The Australian found Dragan Vasiljkovic living in Perth as Daniel Snedden, the first stage of extradition proceedings was launched yesterday against the soldier infamously known as Captain Dragan during the bloody Balkans conflict.
As a commander in the Serbian paramilitary forces, Mr Vasiljkovic is alleged to have led a unit that killed civilians and tortured prisoners of war in the Croatian towns of Glina and Knin in mid-1991 and Bruska, near Benkovac, in February 1993.
The Croatian Government wants Australia to send him to Croatia to face three war-crimes charges. The charges, according to papers lodged in Sydney's Central Local Court yesterday, included two war crimes against prisoners of war under article 122 of the Basic Criminal Code of Croatia and one war crime against civil population under Article 120 of the code. The offences carry a maximum penalty of 20 years' jail.
The Croatian investigation into Mr Vasiljkovic's wartime activities - conducted by county prosecutors in the central Dalmatian town of Sibenik - began after The Weekend Australian tracked Mr Vasiljkovic, 51, to a Perth Serbian community centre, where he was teaching golf.
The former commando had returned to Australia in December 2004, quietly resuming a life in Perth where his mother and brother live, after travelling between Belgrade, Africa and The Hague in the years following the 1991-95 Balkans war.
Mr Vasiljkovic, who emigrated to Sydney as a boy and holds dual Australian-Serb citizenship, gave evidence in the trial of former dictator Slobodan Milosevic at the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia in The Hague in 2003.
His lawyer told the Sydney court yesterday there was no evidence to justify Mr Vasiljkovic being held in jail. "There is not one factual statement here, even though his liberty has been taken away," Brad Slowgrove said.
Australian Federal Police agents swooped on Mr Vasiljkovic's rented unit in the southwest Sydney suburb of Liverpool at 11.55pm on Thursday. He was listed as an international fugitive by Interpol earlier this month.
Mr Vasiljkovic, who insisted last week he would only return to Croatia "as commander of a tank unit" and evidence against him "won't stand even in the pubs", sat impassively in the dock wearing a dark suit jacket and red shirt.
Magistrate Allan Moore adjourned the matter to January 27, when Mr Vasiljkovic, who was refused bail, will appear by video link from prison.
Honestly I am surprised it is not more. Spend some time reading the tripe on the Kos board. Note to Kos: Bush hatred is not a winning strategy you wanna be Dem Consultant. Note to Kos subscribers: Kos follows the money. LOL
You know the Lefties - many come back angry, disillusioned and frustrated from the Commie Bloc nations ergo they have to make America like them. America must not only be like what they hate but America must be ruled by them as well.
Oh good. I was soooooooo worried...
GUANTANAMO BAY U.S. NAVAL BASE, Cuba (Reuters) - The number of Guantanamo prisoners on a hunger strike to protest their detention has dropped to its lowest level since October, according to U.S. military officials, who said they are unsure why most of those involved have resumed eating. Ummmmmmmmmm...hungry?
As of Wednesday night, 22 prisoners had refused at least nine consecutive meals and 17 of those were being fed through tubes inserted through the nose into their stomachs, according to Army Lt. Col. Jeremy Martin, a spokesman at the prison for foreign terrorism suspects. The hunger strike began in August and peaked on September 11, the fourth anniversary of the al Qaeda attacks on America, when 131 detainees -- more than a quarter of the total at the prison -- took part in protest of their detention at Guantanamo. The number surge again on Christmas Day but has since dropped, military officials said.
"There has been a drastic change," Martin said. "Although we can't say with certainty why, detainees on hunger strike have begun to eat." Ummmmmmmm...hungry?
Lawyers for the prisoners have accused the military of undercounting the hunger strikers. In October, a federal judge in Washington ordered the government to notify their lawyers about forced feedings and provide them with prisoners' medical records. Human rights lawyers and federal judges will us all killed.
U.S. District Judge Gladys Kessler said detainees' lawyers had presented "deeply troubling" allegations of U.S. personnel violently shoving feeding tubes as thick as a finger through the men's noses and into their stomachs without anesthesia or sedatives, with detainees vomiting blood as U.S. personnel mocked them. Yeah, them lawyers would never lie. Would they, Gladys?
Officials at the camp deny those allegations. The Navy doctor in charge of the detainee hospital said medical workers use soft, flexible feeding tubes and anesthetize and lubricate the prisoners' nostrils before inserting the tubes."It's done with great compassion and care," said the doctor, who like many military officials in direct contact with the prisoners, asked that his name not be used. "We are very, very gentle." He said the prisoners were not strapped down during feedings and that none had been injured in the process. But we all know the evil military lies. They're not like those human rights lawyers.
Officials at the 4-year-old prison portrayed the hunger strike as a publicity stunt aimed at pressuring the United States to release the detainees. Most of the nearly 500 men were captured during the war to oust al Qaeda from Afghanistan after the September 11 attacks and the Bush administration has asserted the right to hold them indefinitely as part of the war against terrorism.
Guantanamo officials said most of the tube-fed prisoners cooperate with the "involuntary feedings" but refused to eat regular meals because they want to be counted as hunger strikers. And "Guantanamo Hunger Striker" will really impress all the chicks back in whatever Stanland they hail from.
"Frankly I do not believe that the men that are participating in the hunger strike indeed wish to do any long-term physical damage to their own health," said Army Maj. Gen. Jay Hood, who oversees the prison operation. He said several tube-fed prisoners had told the doctors, "I know as long as you are here that I will not die." More Brave Jihadi Warriors...
Early in the morning on January 12, suspected U.S. aircraft fired missiles at houses in the village of Damadola in the Bajaur Agency of Pakistan's Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), killing 18 people. This was the first attack of its kind in this area (Frontierpost.com.pk, January 14).
What is the significance of Banjaur agency and its relation with the central government? What is the connection if any of Bajaur to the Al-Qaeda terrorists and why would one, of all places, look for Ayman al-Zawahiri, the number two man in the al-Qaeda hierarchy, in Bajaur? Who is Mawlawi Faqir Mohammad, who appeared briefly to eulogize the bombing victims, and then disappeared into thin air? What about Bajaur makes it so tempting for the terrorists to hide there?
FATA, which roughly comprises the size of Florida, has a population of over three million, predominantly of Pashtun tribes. As some major tribes inhabit FATA, Pashtunwali, or the Pashtun tribal code, provides the foundation for the area's legal system.
This area of Pakistan has remained isolated for centuries. Afghan kings, the British Raj, Pakistani generals, the Soviets and American Green Berets have all tried unsuccessfully to assert control over these wild lands at one point or another. These loosely administered territories are not governed by boundaries or politicians, but by tribal elders and tribal loyalties. The British granted the tribal people maximum autonomy and allowed them to run their affairs in accordance with their Islamic faith, customs and traditions. This prickly borderland formally belongs to Pakistan, but has deep historical, cultural, and ethnic ties to Afghanistan (The News, March 14).
Of the seven FATA Agencies, North and South Waziristan and Bajaur play the most significant role in the war on terrorism because of the presence of local militant groups and their association with the top leaders of al-Qaeda. Bajaur has the added dimension of being the suspected host to several members of al-Qaeda's top leadership. Also notable is its proximity to the volatile province of Kunar in Afghanistan, one suspected hiding area of Osama bin Laden.
In May of last year, a prominent al-Qaeda leader, Abu Farraj al-Libbi was arrested in Mardan a town southeast of Bajaur. At one time, al-Libbi was also serving as bin Laden's secretary. When another key al-Qaeda leader Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the mastermind of 9/11 attacks was arrested in March 2002, Libbi had replaced him as the terror network's number three leader.
Two days later, security forces arrested thirteen people including ten foreigners of having al-Qaeda links from Bajaur Agency. The foreigners included Uzbek and Afghan nationals. Al-Libby was at some point living under the protection of Malawi Faqir Mohammad (UPI, May 5, 2005).
Faqir Mohammad, who delivered a fiery anti-Pakistan and anti-U.S. speech at the collective funeral of the civilians killed in the Friday bombing on January 12, left the scene. He narrowly escaped the missile attack.
Mawlawi Faqir Mohammad and al-Zawahiri along with Mullah Omar were reportedly invited to a feast in the village. Faqir Mohammad, who had a close connection with the Taliban, is also wanted for giving shelter to foreign terrorists. (al-Jazeera, January 14).
Faqir Mohammed is a leader of the Movement for the Enforcement of Islamic Sharia, a religious group that forcibly imposed Islamic religious laws in the Pashtun tribal areas of northwestern Pakistan in the 1990s. Although the Pakistani military later removed most of the parallel courts and administrative units established by the movement, the group continued to run a parallel government for some time.
The group still has some influence and occasionally sets up temporary tribal courts to try cases such as fornication, alcohol consumption and selling narcotics. In 1996, when the Taliban came to power in Afghanistan, the group established a close working relationship with Mullah Omar's regime.
This group is also believed to have recruited thousands of ethnic Pashtuns to fight in Afghanistan alongside the Taliban when the United States attacked the country in December 2001. Many of these volunteers later died in prison camps in northern Afghanistan.
The group was never directly involved with al-Qaeda but is known to have cooperated with it in the past on the instructions of the Taliban. Pakistani intelligence officials say they would not be surprised if the group is now sheltering senior al-Qaeda leaders. Faqir Mohammad himself, as a result of his association with the Taliban and especially Al-Qaeda leaders is on the wanted list in Pakistan. "They are very influential and have the infrastructure to hide bin Laden and his comrades," said the Pakistani official. (UPI, May 5, 2005).
Al-Zawahiri, aside from his association to Faqir Mohammad is the son in law of the Momands, one of the largest Pashtun tribes inhabiting Momand Agency. His wife is a Momand Pashtun and is living with her children on the border of Bajaur and Momand. Under Pashtunwali, al-Zawahiri is considered part of the family and the tribe and he must be protected with the lives of the tribesmen.
Aside from its "hospitality," Bajaur is important to the Taliban and foreign terrorists for its proximity to Kunar province. The tribes straddling the border area are drawn to two basic tenets: Pashtunwali and Islam. Giving shelter to a fellow Pashtun or Muslim is a Pashtunwali tradition and an Islamic duty. This and the rugged terrain and inaccessibility of the border region make it an ideal sanctuary for al-Zawahiri and other members of al-Qaeda. Any pressure, whether from the U.S. or Pakistani government, will not change the mentality of the people. Attacks in which allegedly innocent people are killed, will only reinforce the militants' position and further isolate the central government in Islamabad.
Faqir Mohammad, who delivered a fiery anti-Pakistan and anti-U.S. speech at the collective funeral of the civilians killed in the Friday bombing on January 12, left the scene. He narrowly escaped the missile attack.
Well, the tribe Americanus is kind of ticked at the death and destruction old bin Laden caused in the United States, and will do something about it. We have a tendency to root out tribalism that is mean to us, and either change ways, or eliminate the threat. I think the Pushtuns and a bunch of other Islamists have failed to take that into consideration, to their detriment.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
01/20/2006 14:22 Comments ||
Since the government of Pakistan will not deal with it. Warn them. Then B52s' and iron bombs. Let the iron fall like rain. Treat then brutally. It is the only thing they respect or understand unfortunately.
As someone once said, "Everything is always more complex than we know".
In this case, the best attitude to take to win is a philosophy that the situation must be looked at like an internet map, with different perspectives depending on the scale. Every disadvantage can be turned to an advantage and vise versa.
Baluch Pushtuns that fight against Pakistan today may fight against Iran tomorrow. They may offer you a feast tonight, then slit your throat in your sleep for the price on your head. One tribe may offer the heads of al-Qaeda a dinner, and another tribe may inform on the time and the date of that dinner.
Everything changes, so it is wise to create change, or at least follow it, to your advantage.
Unfortunately, until we lose a city in the US to these scumbags, we will not fight the tribals the way our history has taught will result in victory : exterminate the foe and reward the ally. We allied with the Crow and they helped us break the Apache and Comanche; we ran those tribes into the ground and burnt their villages where ever we found them. They eventually became peaceful - after we killed enough of them to get the point across. That is what we need to do in the Paki tribal zone, find a tribe we can deal with and load them up with goodies like wells, vets to improve their herds, medics to treat their illnesses, and arm them to the teeth. Then set them loose on their traditional foes and our Al-Q enemies, with the provision that we want sufficient material proof of success to run a valid DNA test on.
Pakistani agents continued their hunt for two pro-Taleban clerics who dined with top Al Qaeda operatives the night of last weekâs US missile strike, hoping to determine who was killed in the attack.
Pakistani officials say Faqir Mohammed and Liaqat Ali were likely responsible for burying - and concealing - the bodies of as many as four Al Qaeda operatives killed in the US assault that targeted, but missed, the networkâs No. 2 leader, Ayman al-Zawahri.
Mohammed reportedly returned near the scene of the attack in Pakistanâs tribal region two days later to lead an anti-US protest.
âThe government is actively hunting for them,â a senior government official with high-level access to information on the Damadola attack said on Thursday.
âOnce we have them in custody, more will definitely be revealedâ about that night, said the official, who declined to be identified because of the sensitive nature of the investigation.
Officials have said four or five foreign militants were killed in last Fridayâs attack in Damadola, a village near the Afghan border. They say the airstrike targeted - but missed - al-Zawahri. It also killed 13 local people, outraging many in the Islamic country.
Chemical weapons expert Midhat Mursi al-Sayid Umar may be among the senior Al Qaeda operatives killed in the attack, Pakistani intelligence officials said.
Interior Minister Aftab Sherpao, who was in New York with Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, said the bodies may have been removed by Mohammed - who was born in the small hamlet of Sewai just a few kilometers (miles) from Damadola.
The official said a count of hastily dug graves after the airstrike generated new information. At least two of the graves had no bodies, but were filled in with dirt anyway.
Three other graves were dug and left empty, apparently because those initially thought to have been killed were later discovered alive.
âThe search for people, dead or alive, is still ongoing,â said Shah Zaman Khan, the governmentâs top spokesman for the tribal regions bordering Afghanistan.
Mohammed and Aliâs movements since the attack make them prime suspects in the supposed concealment of the bodies, officials say.
They were both in Damadola at the time of the pre-dawn assault, but escaped unscathed, according to Pakistani intelligence officials.
Soon after, the clerics returned to lead funeral rites for the victims. Then they came back again to lead a large protest against the allegedly CIA-led sortie.
Mohammed and Ali mobilized around 8,000 armed men to fight US forces after its invasion of Afghanistan following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States, Pakistani officials said.
The two are already wanted for harboring terrorists, and the government has outlawed their Islamic group, Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Shariat Mohammadi, or Movement for the Enforcement of Islamic Law.
In May last year, security forces raided their homes in Hewai, arresting at least a dozen suspected terrorists from Uzbekistan. They were not present then.
The News, a widely circulated Pakistani national newspaper, quoted Mohammed as saying earlier this week that he âwould offer refugeâ to al-Zawahri âif he made a request.â
âIt is my wish to meet al-Zawahri because he is a soldier of Islam,â it quoted him as saying.
Thanks to the hard work of disciplined men in our services doing an often thankless job several top Al Quaeda leaders were turned into canon fodder.
No thanks to the liberals who would do anything to undermine the good work of our heroes and who are indistinguishable from anti-American protesters who honor terrorists as freedom fighters while painting Americans as terrorists worthy of their evil attacks.
We would be justified and it's about time our forces make incursion into these tribal regions to settle some scores.
And it's time to twist some arms of these "innocent" tribal supporters (The McCain kid glove method only works in EU elite politics.).
Only after we rat these terrorists out will terrorism subside.
Turning the reigns of power over to liberals will only make things worse.
Security forces on Thursday arrested five suspected foreign militants from Swat. All of them are said to be Afghans. They were arrested in two raids in the town of Matta. Those arrested include Ammaduddin, Farooq, Majidullah and Shafiullah, whereas the identity of the fifth suspect could not be ascertained.
The foreigners are believed to be Al Qaeda operatives and are Afghans and hail from Nooristan area of the bordering country.
Three of them were arrested from a mosque in Matta and two picked up from a house in the same area.
They have been shifted to an undisclosed destination for investigation.
Confusion on Thursday surrounded the identity of three of the four al-Qaeda members named by Pakistanâs intelligence officials as the victims of a CIA-led air strike in a remote region on the Afghan border.
An al-Qaeda bomb expert, for whom the US had offered a $5m (â¬4bn, Â£3bn) bounty for information leading to his capture, and the son-in-law of Ayman al-Zawahiri, al-Qaedaâs second-in-command, were said to be among the four killed.
However, analysts queried the information because it did not appear to be derived from physical identification or DNA testing of the bodies.
The CIA-led attack last Friday also killed at least 18 civilians, including women and children, provoking an angry reaction from the countryâs Islamic and opposition parties.
Pakistanâs intelligence officials on Thursday said one of those killed was Midhat Mursi al-Sayid Umar, also known as Abu Khabab al-Masri. An official identified him as âal-Qaedaâs chief bomb maker, the guy who was the architect of its explosive-making machineryâ.
The other two men were identified as Abdul Rehman al-Misri al-Maghribi, son-in-law of Zawahiri who was the target of the attack, and Abu Obaidah al-Misri, al-Qaedaâs chief in Afghanistanâs eastern Kunar province. The fourth victim has not been named, but intelligence officials said he was also an al-Qaeda member.
Responding to the reports from Pakistani intelligence, a US official said Washington could not confirm whether the men had been killed in the air attack.
The Muttahida Majlis e Amal [MMA], the main alliance of Islamic groups, questioned the accuracy of the information. MMAâs leaders this week led criticism in parliament of General Pervez Musharraf, Pakistanâs president, calling for his resignation over the attack and repeating demands for an end to the countryâs co-operation with the US.
So far the allianceâs leaders have been alone in giving an account of the attack, based on information from supporters in the border region.
âI can tell you on full authority that neither the Pakistani government nor the US took hold of the bodies. They were taken away for burial by people who came from Afghanistan, nobody knows where they were buried,â said one MMA leader who asked not to be named for fear of being questioned.
He said: âIf the Americans or Pakistanis do not have the bodies, how can anyone make accurate claims of their identities?â
The Pakistani intelligence official confirmed the identities were made on the basis of intelligence information and not âfacts gathered through DNA tests or any other meansâ.
Typical Muslim lying to cover up a setback for Islam. Or not. Kinda hard to believe anyone who believes in a religion that confers special worldly privileges to believers that are explicitly denied to non-believers.
Six civilians and four security personnel were injured in two separate shooting incidents in Indian Kashmir, the army and police said Thursday. "Militants attacked an army foot patrol in Surigam late on Wednesday, injuring an officer and a soldier ," said spokesman Vijay Batra, adding five civilians were injured in the fire after attack.
Unidentified men blew up a major electricity tower in Peshawar city on Thursday, suspending the supply of electricity to Charsadda and Mardan, Aaj television channel reported. A PESCO spokesman told the channel that unidentified men blew up the pylon using a time bomb. The spokesman told Aaj that repair teams had been sent to the damaged tower.
Unidentified men fired rockets at a Tochi Scouts camp in the Mir Ali area of North Waziristan Agency on Thursday, but no casualties were reported. According to official sources, unidentified men fired four rockets on the Tochi Scouts camp from the Zarameela area on Wednesday night. Two of the rockets landed close to the camp while the others exploded far from it. Security forces retaliated to the attack. No loss of life or damage to property was reported.
PESHAWAR: A security agency arrested six suspected militants, including four Afghans, in Swat district late on Wednesday. They were shifted to an unknown location for interrogation after their arrests at two different locations in Matta tehsil, a security official told Daily Times on Thursday. Five of the militants were arrested at a mosque in Matta and the sixth was apprehended at a seminary in the Bahadak area of the same tehsil.
"They are suspected of having links with Al Qaeda," the security official said on the condition of anonymity. Federal Information Minister Sheikh Rashid confirmed the arrests but played down their significance. Two of the arrested men were described as minor suspects. Matta is known to be a stronghold of Tehreek Nifaz-e-Shariat Mohammadi, an extremist group outlawed by President Pervez Musharraf in January 2002.
QUETTA: At least two people were killed and five injured when unidentified men fired more than 20 rockets at law enforcement agencies' camps on Thursday in the Machh area of Bolan and Mand area of Makran division.
The Machh district administrative officer said that at least one boy was killed and two were injured. He said that about 15 rockets were fired at a post where Frontier Corps (FC), levies and police personnel were present. The FC commander said that three people were killed while levies personnel put the death toll at two, saying that five children were injured. A transformer was damaged and disconnected electricity supply to the area. Unidentified men fired seven rockets at an FC check post in the Mand area of Makran division, but no causalities were reported. Meanwhile, a man calling himself Azad Baloch accepted responsibility for the attacks on behalf of the Baloch Liberation Army.
The Italian government has announced that it will pull its troops out of Iraq by the end of the year. Defence Minister Antonio Martino's statement marked the first official confirmation of a timetable. Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi had recently hinted that Italy's 2,500 contingent could return home in 2006.
The country's involvement in the war, which has been deeply unpopular among Italians, is likely to be a key issue in April's general election. Mr Martino said troops would be withdrawn gradually throughout the year and replaced with a civilian force. He told a parliament committee the pull-out timetable had been agreed in conjunction with coalition forces in Iraq. "The military operation Antica Babilonia [Ancient Babylon] will end its mandate gradually over the course of the year 2006 and the mission will be considered over and accomplished at the end of the year," said Mr Martino.
The main opposition parties had said they would bring the troops home immediately if they won the 9 April election. Italy, a staunch ally of the Bush administration, sent about 3,000 soldiers to Iraq to help with the reconstruction in the south after the fall of Saddam Hussein in 2003. The force has come under several attacks, the worst being in November 2003 when 19 Italians, mostly police officers, were killed in a suicide attack in Nasiriya.
My surprise meter jumped a little when I saw this headline. Tangled webs and all that.
Israel's defense minister accused Iran and Syria on Friday of masterminding a suicide bombing in Tel Aviv that wounded 20 people and said the militant group believed responsible would be targeted in raids. A Syrian official denied involvement.
"No! No! Certainly not!"
Islamic Jihad, which is backed by Syria and Iran, claimed responsibility for bombing a fast-food restaurant Thursday. The Palestinian attacker, who witnesses said posed as a peddler selling disposable razors, walked into the restaurant and blew himself up even though most customers were sitting outside at sidewalk tables, police said.
I saw a note yesterday that he was in the restroom of the restaurant and suffered premature explodulation.
The explosion wrecked "The Mayor's Shwarma," a restaurant specializing in grilled meat sandwiches. It is located in a rundown area of downtown Tel Aviv that has been hit repeatedly by Palestinian attackers.
After a late-night meeting with security officials, Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz said early Friday: "We have definitive proof that the financing of the terror attack ... came directly from Iran, while the planning was carried out in Syria." He said the findings would be shared with American and European officials. Faisal Sayegh, the director of Syria's state-run broadcast media, said Syria had "nothing to do with the operation." Israel considers Iran to be its biggest threat â a concern that has grown since Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Israel should be "wiped off the map."
As I reflect on this article, I find myself wondering if these statements are actually meant to be added to the complaint file when/if Iran is finally hauled in front of the Security Council and Officially Frowned UponÂ®.
Israel has been missing a bet here for years. By allowing the Syrians and Iranians to sponsor a "proxy war" against them, and yet not blaming them for it after each and every incident, the Israelis could have laid much of the groundwork for the future.
In other words, they should have declared these attacks to be an "act of war" by an outside nation, rather than treating them as domestic problems. The words "act of war" carry great meaning, internationally, and would have resulted in much more pressure being applied to Syria and Iran over time.
Declaring an "act of war" against you is just shy of declaring war yourself, and declaring repeatedly that "acts of war" are being committed against you is in effect calling for international intervention to stop the "outrages", or be faced with a declaration of war response.
It also covers your rear end when and if you respond. That is, if the rest of the world just sat idly by then, despite these entreaties, they have forfeited the right to object when you respond in self-defense.
You're absolutely right Moose. Israel has the worst PR in the world. They should have been alerting the world all along to these attacks from Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad as acts of war from Iran and Syria. When the time comes for Israel to act they would be much better positioned. It would show years of restraint on their part. And military action would not look preemptive. It would just look like they were finally pushed to respond.
Israel is in a similar position to President Bush. It doesn't matter what they say, those who should be reporting won't hear what they don't want to, and will only report half truths and untruths. So with very few exceptions, Israel has given up trying to pursuade.
The state prosecutor's office charged an Israeli Arab prison fugitive on Thursday with relaying information about military bases and sensitive infrastructure installations to Lebanese guerrillas who seek Israel's destruction. The man, 21-year-old Uru Ali, escaped to Lebanon during a 48-hour furlough from an Israeli prison, carrying maps of northern Israel and Lebanon taken from the prison library, according to the indictment, which did not state why he was imprisoned. There, he fell into the hands of Hezbollah guerrillas, who held him captive for eight months, security officials said.
While in captivity, he relayed information about the location of military bases, troops, telephone and electricity installations, and municipal and political party buildings in the northern Israeli city of Nahariya, near the Lebanese border, security officials said. He also gave them information about two relatives who serve on the Israeli police force, and about doctors and a lawyer from his hometown, the village of Mizraa in Galilee, they said. Ali's captors released him in late December on the Lebanese side of Ghajar, a town of Israeli Arabs through which the Israel-Lebanon border runs, security officials said. Israeli security forces detained him as he came over the border.
Israel has a complex network of spies in the ME. Hezbollah knows this. Perhaps they thought they caught a new agent being sent out to mingle and they attempted to break him.
Now, he'll probably leave by another door.
We'll never know what he is.
#1: This story is very strainge. What am I missing?
That he has access to all this material while in prison?
That he aparently has unmonitored telephone calls from prison?
Unless they wanted him to pass this info along, the incompetence is just staggering.
Posted by: Redneck Jim ||
01/20/2006 20:43 Comments ||
Antiterror police have arrested two more men alleged to have links with fugitive Malaysian terrorist Noordin M. Top, who has been accused of masterminding a series of deadly bombings in Indonesia.
Joko Wibowo, 25, alias Abu Sayap, was arrested in the Central Java town of Karanganyar on Wednesday, while Ibnu Pramono, 30, in Semarang on Tuesday evening, police and relatives said on Thursday.
Joko was arrested by the elite antiterror police as he was believed to be a close friend of Noordin, a key leader of the al-Qaeda-linked Jamaah Islamiyah hard-line network blamed for several terrorist attacks in Indonesia, including the 2002 Bali nightclub bombings that killed 202 people, mainly foreign tourists.
At the time of the arrest police also seized a revolver and 30 rounds of various kinds of ammunition, including M-16 bullets belonging to the suspect.
Meanwhile, Ibnu was arrested by antiterror police at his home in Central Java's Semarang on Tuesday evening, said Ibnu's brother-in-law Sugeng Romadhon on Thursday.
"I don't know why Ibnu was arrested as he did not exhibit any strange behavior or had not joined any organizations. He worked as a mathematics teacher at nearby Pedurungan Kidul I elementary school," Sugeng said.
The arrest warrant stated that Ibnu had regularly lent his motorcycle to unidentified clerics, Sugeng said.
Both Joko and Ibnu were believed to be close to Subur Sugiarto alias Abu Mujahid, 35, who was nabbed by police, also in Central Java, on Tuesday afternoon while he was taking a bus to Jakarta.
Subur, who is a teacher of Islam, was believed to have encouraged the three suicide bombers who blew up restaurants in Bali in October last year, in which 20 people were killed.
Police raided Subur's house in Kendal near Semarang in November and found ammunition in the form of 40 M-16 bullets, 40 pistol bullets, books on Islam, VCD recordings, bomb-making manuals as well as documents that led to his name being added to a list of terror suspects.
The arrests of both Joko and Ibnu as well as Subur brings the number of captured hard-liners believed to have helped Noordin evade capture to eight over the last few days.
The other five were Ardi Wibowo, Joko (not Joko Wibowo), Wahyu, Puji Srimulyono (all of them in Semarang) and Aditya in Klaten, Central Java.
The recent arrests have been confirmed by Central Java Police chief Insp. Gen. Dody Sumantyawan, who said that the arrests were part of police efforts to develop their investigation into terrorist networks in Central Java.
"We have complete data, including the ones linked to a murder case in 2001 in Surakarta," he said.
Police captured three Islamic militants suspected of links to an Al Qaeda linked terror network blamed for a series of bloody attacks in Indonesia, police and media reports said on Friday.
The men were detained Thursday in central Java province, Koran Tempo daily reported, adding that they were believed to be linked with Southeast Asian terror group Jemaah Islamiyah, which is accused of two attacks on the resort island of Bali that killed more than 220 people.
Police spokesman Col. Bambang Kuncoko confirmed police had arrested some suspects but could not release more information out of fears of jeopardizing âongoing investigations in the field.â
He said police could hold the men for seven days before having to charge or release them.
Koran Tempo said the men were believed to have links with Noordin Top, a Malaysian militant alleged to be a senior member of Jemaah Islamiyah.
Police on Thursday said they had arrested a âhenchmanâ of Noordin in another raid in central Java earlier this week.
Last week, police arrested four suspects on Java island, three of whom they said had links to Noordin. It is unclear whether those four have been charged or released.
Suspected Islamic militants set fire to dozens of mobile phone transmission towers in Thailand's four southern provinces on Wednesday night. The co-ordinated attacks caused disruption to phone services, but no injuries were reported. Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said the attacks were in retaliation for government restrictions on the use of mobile phones in the region.
Officials are battling a long-running Muslim insurgency in Thailand's south. More than 1,000 people have died since early 2004, mostly in isolated attacks on civilians or security personnel. But occasionally more co-ordinated attacks have been orchestrated. "Last night's attacks aimed to incite more unrest and to show that the militants are still capable" of staging co-ordinated raids, Mr Thaksin told the French news agency AFP. "The attacks may have been to retaliate against government registration of SIM cards, because now they cannot use mobile phones to detonate bombs," he said. The militants are through to have thrown petrol bombs at both mobile phone towers and phone booths.
Suspected Tamil Tiger rebels have detonated anti-personnel mines twice in eastern Sri Lanka, killing four people and injuring 25 others. The Defence Ministry said 20 soldiers and police and one civilian were injured when suspected Tigers triggered a mine against their truck in Batticaloa, 220km east of capital, Colombo, on Thursday. The military media unit said three police died in the attack, as did one civilian.
Separately, three sailors and a police officer were injured in a suspected rebel mine attack in the eastern town of Trincomalee, 230km northeast of Colombo. Both Trincomalee and Batticaloa fall within the rebels' envisaged homeland for Sri Lanka's 3.2 million ethnic Tamil minority. The attacks came as the Sri Lankan parliament on Thursday extended a state of emergency as continuing separatist violence threatened to plunge the island back into civil war. Trincomalee, which serves as a major base for the Sri Lankan navy, has been hit hard by violence blamed on the separatist Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, who run a de facto state in parts of the north and east of the island. They routinely deny any role in such attacks.
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad met in Damascus with the leaders of 10 radical Palestinian movements including Islamic Jihad and Hamas.
Ahmadinejad said he "strongly supports the Palestinian people's struggle" during the meeting, according to Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) official Maher Taher Friday.
Taher said the militant chiefs pledged to Ahmadinejad that the "Palestinian resistance and struggle would continue" against Israel.
"We expressed our solidarity with Syria, which is under pressure due to its national positions, as well as with Iran which has the right to possess nuclear technology for peaceful purposes," he added.
Islamic Jihad chief Abdullah Ramadan Shala, Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal and PFLP-GC leader Ahmed Jibril were among those at the meeting, Taher said.
The meeting came one day after Islamic Jihad claimed a suicide attack in Tel Aviv that wounded 19 people. Israel blamed Tehran and Damascus for supporting the attack.
"The attack was financed by Tehran, planned in Syria and carried out by Palestinians," Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz was quoted as saying by a ministry official.
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad did not attend Ahmadinejad's meeting with the Palestinian chiefs, though he and Ahmadinejad met Thursday in Damascus as the two allies reaffirmed their ties amid increasing international pressure.
While Iran faces possible UN sanctions over its nuclear program, Assad's regime is also growing more isolated over its alleged involvement in former Lebanese premier Rafiq Hariri's murder in February 2005.
Iran and Syria are both under US sanctions for their alleged sponsorship of terrorism and quest for weapons of mass destruction. They also stand accused of playing a spoiling role in their shared neighbor Iraq.
The ultra-conservative Iranian president has already faced international outcry over his comments describing Israel as a "tumor" that should be "wiped off the map."
During his first visit to sole regional ally Syria since his shock election win in June, Ahmadinejad described Israeli Jews as "migrants" and asked if Europeans would be willing to accommodate them.
"Give these migrants authorization to come into your countries and you will see that they no longer want to live in occupied (Palestinian) territory," Ahmadinejad said during a meeting with high-ranking Syrian officials.
"Are you prepared to open the doors of your country to migrants so that they can move freely throughout Europe? Are you going to guarantee their security and no longer engage in anti-Semitic repression if they come into your countries?" he asked, adding that he doubted Europeans' "sincerity."
Ahmadinejad also visited Shiite holy sites near the Syrian capital, including the Sitt Zeinab mosque, the Sitt-Raquiya mosque and the Mosque of Omeyyades.
Ahmadinejad and Assad were to meet later Friday before the Iranian leader ended his two-day visit to Damascus.
Nothing really new here. Hamas has always benn funded by Iran and Syria is their safe house. I'm starting to agree with Zen and .com. Time to strike and then let the eurotrash snivel while they live in peace, that we creat.
Posted by: 49 Pan ||
01/20/2006 21:20 Comments ||
Embroiled in a nuclear standoff with the West, Iran said on Friday it was moving its foreign assets to shield them from possible U.N. sanctions and flexed its oil muscles with a proposal to cut OPEC output.
"Yes, Iran has started withdrawing money from European banks and transferring it to other banks abroad," said a senior Iranian official, who asked not to be named.
Central Bank Governor Ebrahim Sheibani was quoted earlier as saying Tehran had started shifting funds, but he sidestepped a question on whether the assets would go to accounts in Asia. It is far from clear how placing assets in Asia or anywhere abroad would protect them from being frozen as few governments or major banks would be willing to flout U.N. sanctions openly... Yet another incredibly dumb move. Not only would their money have been "safe as houses" in the EU, but nobody in Asia, except maybe Kimmie, will hold it for them against the wishes of the US. I'm sure several will volunteer, at astronomical interest rates, but when push came to shove will halt transactions until the moon left orbit, keeping the "float" in the meantime.
It makes sense if the balloon goes up and Teheran expects one or more Euro cities to be whacked with nukes. As the old saying goes "follow the money".
Taken together in context with M. Chirac's statement on retaliation it appears possible that there is some knowledge/suspicion that the Mullahs may have more in their war chest than we publicly expect.
Time to extend our territorial waters to 1k Miles and board or sink any unidentified ships within that zone.
...nobody in Asia, except maybe Kimmie, will hold it for them against the wishes of the US. I'm sure several will volunteer, at astronomical interest rates, but when push came to shove will halt transactions until the moon left orbit, keeping the "float" in the meantime.
Off the top of my head, here's some possibilities:
Brunei Macao Malaysia Myanmar (not ideal, but if there's government-to-government relations, there could be a deal, like an Iranian bank opening a branch there)
Lastly, there's China.
A Sunni group says it has killed one of nine Iranian soldiers it kidnapped along the Pakistani border in December. The kidnappers' announcement was contained in a videotape aired on Thursday on Arab television. The kidnappers, who identified themselves as Jundullah (Soldiers of God), claimed the killing was in response to Iran's "violations against Sunni figures in a number of Iranian towns," the video said. A group of four armed men appeared standing behind a kneeling hostage as one of them read a statement threatening to kill the other captives.
The Iranian authorities confirmed that a group calling itself Jundullah had admitted kidnapping nine Iranian soldiers near the Pakistani border. But an Iranian intelligence ministry statement described the kidnappers as a local bandit group and said the hostages had been taken across the border into Pakistan's unruly Baluchistan province.
Belgian prosecutor Serge Brammertz arrived in Beirut Thursday to take over as head of the UN probe into the assassination of Rafiq al-Hariri, a former Lebanese prime minister, as Syria slammed his predecessor for comments linking Damascus to the crime. Brammertz said he was "completely aware of the expectations on the part of the families of the victims, the people of Lebanon, and the international community, and I will do my utmost to meet these expectations". He said his priority would remain the assistance of the Lebanese authorities in their investigation of the February 2005 car bombing on the Beirut seafront that killed al-Hariri and 22 others. He added that the investigating panel will provide the Lebanese with technical assistance, as appropriate, in their investigations into the attacks in Lebanon since 1 October 2004.
The Central Intelligence Agency said last night that the voice on a tape claiming preparation for an Al-Qaeda attack on the United States was Osama bin Ladenâs. In the audio tape Bin Laden warns that Al-Qaeda is preparing new attacks inside the US, but says the group is open to a conditional truce with Americans. It was the first public communication from the terrorist groupâs leader since December 2004.
âFollowing technical analysis of the Osama bin Laden tape aired today, the CIA assesses that it was the voice of Osama bin Laden,â said an agency official, speaking on condition of anonymity. The official provided no details about how the CIA had concluded that the voice was that of Bin Laden.
The agencyâs finding is sure to intensify the scrutiny that officials from the US and other countries are giving the recording. US counter-terrorism officials said despite the tape, they had seen no specific or credible intelligence to indicate an imminent Al-Qaeda attack on the US.
Were there any direct references to current events in the tape?
This POS could have been recorded years ago for release at a later time.
Without verification it really means nothing, except for the fact that cutting deals with The Great Satan brings no sort of uproar from the extremist community because all of them know that the offer of a hudna is worth less than used toilet paper.
What I find interesting about the audio tape is not Binnie's parroting the Democratic Party line of how the war is a quagmire and we are losing or his silly offer of a 'truce'. It is the fact that the tape is an *audio* tape. Terrorism thrives on media attention and an announcement like this is a major media event. The fact that there is no video must mean that he is visually not ready for prime time. I can only hope that whatever ails him is both painful and debilitating. And that whatever cave he is hiding in is cold and drafty.
I think the emergence of this tape is a wonderful thing, especially since it came out right after the Predator hit in Pakistan.
Binny is now a cartoon. He is a figure to be ridiculed. His movement is getting its ass kicked all over the place. It is alienating those whom it most needs for support. It is fast becoming a focus of derision and scorn.
If this tape indicats that he is alive, it illustrates that he is weak beyond measure. His call for truce is a message of weakness. His assertion that his side is winning in Iraq and Afghanistan is obvious delusion. The vaunted "Arab Street" can see that as plain as the nose on their face. While they may not admit it to an infidel, they still won't miss it.
No one wants to join up with a loser. Binny is every bit the loser right now. Thanks for helping pal. (The release of this tape is so good, that I think Rove is behind it!)
One is believed to be a chemical weapons expert, another allegedly plotted assassinations. A third planned attacks targeting U.S. troops, while a son-in-law publicized their exploits in the name of al-Qaeda and recruited new militants.
Now this top group is believed to have been wiped out by a U.S. missile strike. If true, it's far from a death blow to al-Qaeda, but analysts say it could weaken the terror group's operations in Afghanistan, which has seen an alarming rise in suicide attacks.
The strike apparently missed al-Qaeda's second-in-command, Ayman al-Zawahri. And an audiotape aired Thursday, the first public communication from Osama bin Laden in over a year, suggests the terror network's top leaders are alive.
But the possible demise of four top lieutenants reported by Pakistani officials would rob al-Qaeda of people holding the reins to daily operations.
"It's a very significant blow to al-Qaeda," said Rohan Gunaratna, a terrorism expert at the Institute of Defense and Strategic Studies in Singapore. "These are very experienced leaders and to replace them in the short term will be very difficult."
The Jan. 13 attack on an Islamic holiday gathering in Damadola killed 13 villagers in the Pakistani hamlet near the Afghan border, and possibly four or five foreign militants whose bodies were reportedly spirited away by sympathizers.
None of the militants' bodies has been traced, but Pakistani officials say they likely included Midhat Mursi al-Sayid Umar, an al-Qaeda explosives expert with a $5 million bounty on his head.
He allegedly tested chemical weapons on dogs and trained hundreds of fighters at a terror camp in Afghanistan before the fall of the Taliban in late 2001. Terrorism experts believe that among his students were the suicide bombers who killed 17 U.S. sailors on the USS Cole in 2000.
Another likely victim is Abdul Rehman al-Maghribi, a Moroccan believed to be al-Zawahri's son-in-law, who acted as a PR man for the terror group, distributing CDs and videos to publicize its exploits and attract new followers.
But the biggest quarry could be Khalid Habib, al-Qaeda's operations chief along the Afghan-Pakistan border â from where militants can launch attacks on U.S. forces and Afghan government targets. Pakistani officials also accuse him of planning two assassination attempts on Pakistan President Gen. Pervez Musharraf.
"You can say he's the No. 3 leader," Gunaratna said. "As the chief operations officer, he decides who gets hit and when."
Afghanistan's Defense Ministry spokesman, Gen. Mohammed Zahir Azimi, said it was too early to tell what effect the missile strike would have on the insurgency in Afghanistan.
But Assadullah Wafa, governor of Afghanistan's Kunar region bordering the area around Damadola, said the attack would seriously damage morale.
"I can't imagine there will be any retaliatory strikes," he said. "They will regroup and then keep a low profile to make sure they're not hit again."
Based in Wafa's home province is another suspected casualty of the attack, Abu Obaidah al-Masri. He is believed to be in charge of planning attacks on U.S.-led coalition forces in the area, which Pakistan says are forbidden from crossing the border in pursuit of militants.
Talat Masood, a retired Pakistani general, said the loss of four top operatives would keep al-Qaeda on the defensive in Afghanistan and away from the planning board.
"They have fewer and fewer hiding places," Masood said. "People should be more hesitant to give them sanctuary."
Thousands of Pakistanis have taken to the streets to protest the attack, including more than 1,000 in the northwestern city of Peshawar on Thursday. They denounced the United States and called for the resignation of Musharraf, accusing him of being an American puppet. More rallies were planned Friday.
"Pakistan should not fight against al-Qaeda because this is America's war," said Qazi Hussain Ahmed, head of an anti-U.S. religious alliance.
But that anger may cool with confirmation that al-Qaeda leaders actually were at the blast site and not just villagers.
"It shows that U.S. intelligence might not have been so bad after all," said Ralph Cossa, president of the Pacific Forum think tank. "But I don't think we can fool ourselves into thinking this is a death blow. Al-Qaeda's a snake with many heads."
The war on terror has forced al-Qaeda to decentralize, experts say. Isolated on the remote Afghan-Pakistan border, bin Laden and al-Zawahri remain powerful symbols for followers but are probably unable to direct operations around the world.
Masood predicted the U.S.-led coalition would step up military actions in the region to keep the pressure on al-Qaeda, regardless of public opposition in Pakistan.
"They will not be deterred by negative fallout," he said. "They think it's just collateral damage."
I believe we should follow the money on this one. Just like they accused the Jew's on 9/11, I think he set these guys up because they are cash strapped. I can see how it went down.
"You guys go ahead, I'm not feeleing well and Osama said I really really should watch this bootleg copy of Brokeback Mountain before visiting his tent next month. You guys have a good time with the boys"
My take is the strike has forced "the base" to spent a lot of resources in the last week just proving they are still around. ABC says new tape from Z man expected today.
"...but I'm not dead yet! Quiet Old man, you will be dead by Sunday and they don't come around again until Thursday"
Vice President Dick Cheney dismissed Osama bin Laden's offer of a truce today â calling it "some kind of a ploy" â and said it is not possible to sit down and negotiate a settlement with al Qaeda.
"I'm not sure what he's offering by way of a truce," Cheney said. "I don't think anybody would believe him. [I]t sounds to me like it's some kind of a ploy, but again, not having seen the entire text or validated the tape and the timing of it, I'm reluctant to draw any conclusions.
In an interview with Fox News' Neil Cavuto this afternoon, Cheney said the United States does not negotiate with terrorists and dismissed any offer of a truce with al Qaeda.
"Well, based on what we've seen him do, based on what we've seen the organization do, I don't think it's possible to negotiate any kind of a settlement with terrorists like this," he said. "This is not an organization that's ever going to sit down and sign a truce. I think you have to destroy them. It's the only way to deal with them."
The vice president said the bin Laden tape serves as a good reminder of the terrorist threat that is out there.
"The fact of the matter is we have not been attacked in more than four years," Cheney said. "That is not an accident. It's not just dumb luck."
In a separate television interview with CNBC's Larry Kudlow, he said: "It's been more than four years since we've been attacked. I think a lot of people have sort of let down their guard and relaxed."
Bin Laden warned that security measures in the United States would not prevent future attacks. "As for the delay of inflicting similar operations, in America has not been due to any impossibility of breaking through your security measures, for those operations are under way and you will see them in your midst as soon as they are done," bin Laden said on the tape.
At the same time, bin Laden makes a plea to accept and uphold a long term truce under fair conditions [if America offers it to him], which will provide security and stability to both sides and will make it possible to rebuild Iraq and Afghanistan. "We are a nation forbidden by Allah to betray and lie," promises bin Laden.
Contrary to mistranslations in the media, from Al-Jazeera for example,(1) bin Laden did not offer a truce, but made a plea to genuinely uphold one if America offers it to him.
I admire the VP, but he missed two opportunities to educate, clarify, and inform.
Firstly, he should have been told about the difference between the Islamic style truce "hudna", and the Western style. He could have pointed out indisputable history regarding the use of the word by Mohammed. In this way, the usage of the word "hudna" as a synonym for a one-sided truce entered into without the intent of following through to a peace treaty, would have come into general knowledge and usage.
Secondly, he could have followed through on the observation that people "have let down their guards". He should have at least noted that any carrying out of an attack on american soil would necessarily involve some sort of communication between the locals and foreign terrorists, and that THANKS TO THE TIMES, the compromise of the NSA monitoring program comes at a time when Bin Laden has threatened an attack against the United States.
I'm soooooo impressed. This turd burglar commits the most heinous atrocity in American history, suddenly discovers that we're jamming rockets up his @ss at 0-dark-thirty every other week and decides to offer us a truce.
Piss up a rope you scumbag rectal cavity. If you aren't dead already, we'll be happy to make you that way real soon. You started this war and too f&%king bad if you don't have the testicular fortitude to see it through.
Your truce is worth less than used toilet paper.
Also, Ptah has it totally right. Once again, this administration has missed a vital opportunity to begin informing the American public about exactly what the Islamists hold in store for us.
"Hudna" should have featured prominently in Cheny's speech, along with a word-by-word translation from Arabic to English so that no doubts would be left.
Too bad Muslims are so blind to anything except their own cause to understand that bin Laden is effectively trying to cut a deal with "The Great Satan" whom no deals may be cut with, UNLESS ...
THE DEAL MEANS NOTHING BECAUSE THERE IS NO SINCERITY BEHIND IT.
In fact, I owe you an extra thank you, Ptah. This whole event moves me one degree closer to .com's "Fry 'em Up" stance.
If Islamist intransigence supposedly allows no quarter being given to the enemy, how is it possible for bin Laden to make this truce hudna offer to America The Great Satan without there being an uproar with in the extremist community?
As Ptah so brilliantly mentioned, "hudna" should have been exposed for the "one sided truce" that it is. The proof of this is as I said, the usual thundering silence from Islam as a whole at anything that seems to contradict its tenents.
These @ssholes strain on mosquitoes piggy banks and swallow camels atrocities whole.
How much longer is the West supposed to accept Islam's general unwillingness to criticize or clean its own house? As distasteful as I find reprisal mentality on the whole, at some point the world's Muslim population will have to be made to suffer in proportion to the atrocities their radicals inflict.
Islam's usual thundering silence, combined with their complete and total inaction in terms of actively estopping the spread of radicalism within their ranks (irony intended), continues to indicate that this is what they, as a collective faith, want from their religious leaders.
The time has come for Muslims to begin sharing our pain. Perhaps some other Rantburgers can help me come up with reprisals that are appropriate in scope for countering the predictable atrocities to come.
HERE'S A START:
A 10:1 deportation of newly arrived Muslims from any target country. Force ten times the number of recent Muslim arrivals to return to their country of origin. Make them waste all that plane fare and resettlement expense. Make it clear to them that this has happened due to yet another Islamist atrocity.
I am fed up to my teeth with this constant Islamic (not Islamist) perfidy. If we do not have the courage to take the shrines hostage or some other significant move, then we need to implement measures that begin to inflict hardship in proportion to the way that Islamists commit their atrocities.
Now Zen, there you go again. And as I said a couple of weeks ago, despite your claims to the contrary, I don't think you've changed a bit. Your "solutions" to the Islamic threat are still firmly ensconced in the "nuke 'em all" mentality.
An analysis/critique of your statements:
"If we do not have the courage to take the shrines hostage or some other significant move, then we need to implement measures that begin to inflict hardship in proportion to the way that Islamists commit their atrocities."
Taking a shrine "hostage" is a really stupid idea. Here's why: every middle of the road Moslem will then join with the jihadiis to defend the shrine. Any trust or alliance with non-Moslems will be destroyed, thus polarizing the forces in this conflict. It's a hell of way to turn into a payback magnet, yes? Besides, although these groups get funding from lots of sources, as well as rip off the well-meaning (is in the Islamic charity organization scams), these groups are not under the control of their sources of funding. So, let's say we take Mecca/Medina hostage and yell, "Stop it, you guys . . . I mean it!" Who's gonna stop it. They'd like it, actually, because it would catapult large (and I mean large) segments of the Moslem world population to their doorstep--mission complete.
You advocate another solution that won't work:
" . . . deportation of newly arrived Muslims from any target country. Force ten times the number of recent Muslim arrivals to return to their country of origin. Make them waste all that plane fare and resettlement expense. Make it clear to them that this has happened due to yet another Islamist atrocity."
Same problem here. Many moderate Moslems are fleeing their sucky homelands in search of something better. The rest are acting as an arm of jihad--they plan to settle, build enclaves, be ready to act against the host countries at a later time. Those types are the real problem, but it's impossible to weed them out from the legitimate refuge-seekers. So, what to do? We've got to keep watch on the "settlers," but sending plane loads of Moslems back to Moslem countries might allow a somewhat bizarre outlet for the message you want the terrorists to hear, but the wrong people will get punished. And the terrorists will seize on the unfairness, and use it to their advantage: "those meanie Americans, etc. ad nauseum. Despite what you might think, Islam is not very organized. It's not like there are official spokespeople that the general Moslem public rallies around and affirms. Islam, aside from what might be termed "scholarly (as in academic) Islam" is a total mess. So there's not a central "group" to appeal to, and there exists no leader, country, or organization to respond to the message of "we're sending you all back because of the bad ones--so there" The "run-of-the-mill Moslems who stand up against the gangster Moslems get punished in various and sundry ways--none of them pleasant, which intimidates others from trying to speak out. When they sense they won't become targets they will speak out and demonstrate as you saw in Lebanon recently--tens of thousands demonstrating against the terrorist hotel attacks. Most Moslems simply remain quiet and anonymous, but not always--the Iraqis showed up to their polls in droves, despite death threats (and they've had plenty of time to see the truth of those threats) and tried to participate in self-governance--for the first time in the history of the country. They, essentially, told the terrorists to stuff it. People are still people, Zen, and you've simply have got to try and remember that. So, to deport people randomly and en masse, for crimes committed by the whack-jobs, is counterproductive.
"The time has come for Muslims to begin sharing our pain. Perhaps some other Rantburgers can help me come up with reprisals that are appropriate in scope for countering the predictable atrocities to come."
Which Moslems? If you mean the terrorists and governments that support them, okay, no argument here. But you make no distinction. Reprisals that are appropriate in scope is to make sure the leadership in this country is not liberal-leaning, and to continue to fight the terrorists on their turf. Conceivably, it could get to the point where large-scale terrorist attacks happen and the country they are residing in does and says nothing (Iran and Syria and Saudi Arabia come to mind). That's a whole new ball game, and depending on about 3 million or more variables, military action greater than what's being exercised now, would come into play. But it would still be a targeted offensive, and not something against all Moslems. The fact remains that "all Moslems" should not have to share our pain, (and by "our pain" I think you mean 9-11). We can't just go wild, trying to "even the score." Can you see that using that approach would make us no different than they are, in respect to taking innocent lives? We lose the moral imperative that way.
"Islam's usual thundering silence, combined with their complete and total inaction in terms of actively estopping the spread of radicalism within their ranks (irony intended), continues to indicate that this is what they, as a collective faith, want from their religious leaders."
That's because there is no "Islam" per se. Again, it's nothing more than a loose-knit collective, of sorts. And again, many are quiet out of fear and confusion, not because they agree wholeheartedly with what's going on. They don't necessarily understand their leaders or their religion, and a lot of them want to be "good Moslems" so they just watch from the sidelines. Stupid, I know, but not as atrocious as it seems at first. Some have tried to hold leaders to accountability, and others have elected governors who are committed to finding and eliminating terrorists. But when so-and-so next door is a gun-wielding gangster idiot, it's tough for the average un-self-actualized Moslem to know what to do, or who to go to, and families can be divided. Some have been suckered into the rhetoric, others want a way out. Finally, the subjugation of women has a lot to do with the problem. Without the kind of healthy, life-oriented focus men can benefit from when women are held in esteem in a society, things can get really rotten really quickly. It's not everything, but it is an aspect of the problem. Interestingly, the little (Moslem) girl refugees are doing very well in school, are excelling socially, like school and their teachers and fellow students, whereas the boys aren't. Girls will tend toward order, societal structure, and freedom, in a way boys won't, given the givens of the Moslem culture. Another reason too, why the men start to feel so threatened by the change in the girls/women after they leave Moslem countries. In a very real way, there is a quiet revolution going on. Not disimilar to the Iranians boycotting the polls everytime there's an "election" run by and for the Iranian mullahs. Give it some time. There are, I wager, more for us in the Moslem world, than there are against us. The advent of the internet and access to information also will pan out. The terrorist/mini-dictators can't control the signal. This too, works in our favor.
"How much longer is the West supposed to accept Islam's general unwillingness to criticize or clean its own house? As distasteful as I find reprisal mentality on the whole, at some point the world's Muslim population will have to be made to suffer in proportion to the atrocities their radicals inflict.""
But there IS criticism. I read it here and elsewhere often. "Cleaning it's own house" is a little tricky, because you have to ask yourself, "who are the 'cleaners'?" Average citizens? Are they supposed to go and beat up the local imam? What would happen if they did? How would ignorant and uninformed people within their own communities react? Even so, in Iraq now, more and more information is finding its way into the hands of the American and Iraqi forces regarding terrorist weapons caches and people and plans.
Next, you say, "As distasteful as I find reprisal mentality on the whole, at some point the world's Muslim population will have to be made to suffer in proportion to the atrocities their radicals inflict." Honestly, I don't think you find reprisal mentality distasteful in the least. The very next thing you say is that the "world's Muslim population will have to be made to suffer . . . " Oh really? Which ones? Everyone? Everyone, even though the percentage of radicals is miniscule in comparison to the general population? Even though many Moslems disagree with the aims, agenda, and actions of the terrorists? Let me put it another way, in another context: Should all men who are practicing homosexuality be made to suffer and pay because a small number of them threaten and attack others who voluntarily cease practicing homosexuality and try to leave the lifestyle/community? Of course not. As much as we might not like homosexuality, per se, it would still be wrong to punish all homosexuals for the crimes of a few. And to follow, where, oh where, is the expressed outrage, where is the collective homosexual demonstrations against such homosexually-fomented violence? Are they just obeying and agreeing with their homosexual leaders? You see? Nobody wants to take blame for the actions of others. You can't make the whole Moslem world pay for the actions of the gangsters.
On a positive not, I found your comments at the beginning of your piece very funny, entertaining, and to the point. The utter impossibility of Bin Laden offering America a "truce" is so entirely absurd, that I think you put it best: "This turd burglar commits the most heinous atrocity in American history, suddenly discovers that we're jamming rockets up his @ss at 0-dark-thirty every other week and decides to offer us a truce."
Now, regarding you and Ptah'criticism of Cheney, I have this to say. Sure, it would have been nice for him to unpack that (hudna), but only for educated, intellectual people who have more than a six-second attention span. People wouldn't get it. Mass tune-out. But he DID say the U.S. "does not negotiate with terrorists and dismissed any offer of a truce with al Qaeda."
"Well, based on what we've seen him (Bin Laden) do, based on what we've seen the organization do, I don't think it's possible to negotiate any kind of a settlement with terrorists like this," he said. "This is not an organization that's ever going to sit down and sign a truce. I think you have to destroy them. It's the only way to deal with them."
"The fact of the matter is we have not been attacked in more than four years . . . That is not an accident. It's not just dumb luck."
As far as appropriate reprisals now? Our measures are working. And also, one must never overlook the fact of an armed population in the U.S.(as opposed to Europe and the UK) being a formidable deterrent to terrorists. Afterall, the baddies KNOW their next-door neighbor might have one or more guns in his/her car/home, and if so, would more than likely know how to use them. Kinda rains on their parade, don't it? For now, the solution is straightforward, though somewhat unsatisfying: We have to keep hunting them down, just like we're doing. Stronger force and measure could be advanced in present targeted attack protocols, but it's an imprecise science at best. Mostly it's a test of nerves, courage, and the ability to both wait and maintain the moral ascendancy.
Zen, I understand your passion and fury. But I believe itâs misdirected. And really, despite your touting and spouting, I have to wonder if you would really shoot innocents, even if they were Moslem. I mean I don't think so, but we have to be careful with our rhetoric, because words are powerful things. Do this: Picture the Islamic bad boys lined up against a fence. Then sprinkle in Mom-and-Pop restaurant owner, Moslem scholar, a few teenagers, kids, college students--some have hajibs, some look like your average westerner--some are supermodels, some are film makers, some are dissidents against Islamic terrorism, but still maintain their Moslem identity, which they define for themselves. Now I give you an M16, and say "kill the terrorists and terrorsist sympathizers!" What would you do? Think about it. Would you just mow them all down? Now letâs separate them--put the baddies on one side, leave a space, and put the other average types on the other side. Would you still shoot everyone?
As a sidenote, re #2, I'm always surprized (and a bit worried, given that I'm affected by this too as a westerner) by the inability of the Bush's administrations to get its points in PR.
I mean, I'm mostly ok with what GWB has done so far (I'd like more, faster, but that's ok like that; also, no comment on the domestic political scenery, I can't judge), I think his two administrations have done a good job (especially given the circumstances, GWB was really a great leader right after 9/11 imho), both seen an unseen, but... they've let the other side impose their vision of the Iraq war, of Guantanomo, they're always on the defnesive, they didn't expose the Iran-AQ connection, they didn't expose the Saddam-terror connection, they trapped themselves with the wmd by using them as a rationale for going to war with un approval to suit Blair and Powell and not explaining what they have actually *found*, what were Saddam's contingency plans (preplanned guerilla, probably moving away/destroying his stash, as Ion Pacepa said was the soviet way), by not acknowledging Iran's acts of wars,...
I mean, it's like they shy away from confronting the msm, which are indeed very hostile. It's a lost cause in Europe, but I'm sure if they had done a better job of explaining what they were doing and why, the US public would be mature and wise enough to understand.
The Us people support their troops because they are patriotical, but they should also support the Wot & the "gamble" undertaken (draining the swamp), because it concerns their future.
Instead, it's a field day for the fifth column. Why don't they hit back, not with spin, but with simple facts?
The media carefully selects what it will and will not relay to the American public, and more often than not, their pick-and-choose is designed to fulfill their agendas--so even if the Bush Administration is saying it loud and clear, we'll never hear it. End of story, sorry to say.
ex-lib: I disagree with your low estimation of the ability of the american public to grasp a new term, especially if it is carefully couched in simple and familiar terms. For instance, "It's like the losing football team asking the winning team's coach to call a time-out to break the momentum of the game when it has swung in his favor and against the losers. No coach that is winning is stupid enough to do THAT." I am sure that there are other metaphors that can be used.
Code words and phrases that abstract strategies is already accepted in the American language: i.e. the term "Munich", or the phrase "Peace in our time" as a code term/phrase for a failed strategy. Hell, I can see "Hudna" becoming one of the few Arabic words that come into common American English usage as the word that abstracts the concept of treachery put on the run posing as goodness and light to buy time for a comeback. Nobody is fussing over the language in the same way the French fusses over theirs.
I'd expect the LLL to fight like hell to OPPOSE it's adoption, mainly because they use a similar strategy all the time. It was used to sneak a tax increase locally in Vidalia several years ago.
So, if you sprinkle a few MSM lefties, some university profs, NOW founders, ACLU lawyers, Clintonistas, Hollywood elite, Bloods, and Crypts among them, I'm liable to start shooting before you get outta the way.
ex-lib, due to previous incivility upon your own part, I find it difficult to take much time responding to your albeit lengthy reply.
Your "solutions" to the Islamic threat are still firmly ensconced in the "nuke 'em all" mentality.
I can only suppose that youâve entirely missed the dozen or so times in the last month where Iâve adamantly opposed the first-use of nuclear weapons against Iran. When you and a few others hereabouts finally stop accusing me of a ânuke âem allâ stance, Iâll feel more obliged to give you serious consideration. If you want ânuke âem allâ, I refer you to .comâs âfry âem upâ position.
Taking a shrine "hostage" is a really stupid idea. Here's why: every middle of the road Moslem will then join with the jihadiis to defend the shrine.
I can only suppose you missed the âor some other significant moveâ part of my sentence. I have proposed taking the shrines hostage as a thought problem in order to get people thinking about what sort of solutions there may be. Nowhere do I tout my idea as the end all, be all solution. You, however, feel free to condemn the notion in absolute terms (i.e., âa stupid ideaâ) as though everyone agrees with you, which is most certainly not the case.
As to your justification, it has a few truck-sized holes in it as well. An increasing body of evidence points towards a significant portion of the Muslim populationâs unwillingness to disassociate themselves from the acts or ideas of jihadists and radical imams. Based on that observation, it strikes me as increasingly necessary to treat a large portion of Muslims as willing accessories to the terrorists atrocities being committed. Feel free to argue against it, but I am not alone in this perception.
Who's gonna stop it. They'd like it, actually, because it would catapult large (and I mean large) segments of the Moslem world population to their doorstep--mission complete.
And here, as usual, you miss the central point. My stance is not that taking the shrines hostage is the ultimate solution. It is that a significant demonstration of determination (and possibly even of force) will be needed to convince the Muslim world that their own inaction against the radicals in their midst comes with a price tag. Only when Islam as a whole finally realizes that there are repercussions for not cleaning house of radicals will there be any progress.
Do you actually advocate that Western forces are obliged to go in and clean up Islamâs mess? Are we to spill our own blood and spend the treasure to take care of something that Islam has bred up all by itself? Is this what you propose? I say that the ball must be placed in Islamâs court and that they must make some sort of genuine demonstration of good faith regarding the expulsion of radicals from within their ranks. This is something that is most definitely not happening.
Many moderate Moslems are fleeing their sucky homelands in search of something better. The rest are acting as an arm of jihad--they plan to settle, build enclaves, be ready to act against the host countries at a later time. Those types are the real problem, but it's impossible to weed them out from the legitimate refuge-seekers.
I can only suppose that one more time, you have missed the prefatory phrasing I put in place:
Perhaps some other Rantburgers can help me come up with reprisals that are appropriate in scope for countering the predictable atrocities to come.
Notice how I am seeking suggestions? Do you even care as you continue to lambaste me? I do not propose my deportation idea as the only solution. Again, it is a thought experiment designed to get people thinking about what might actually work. I can only note a complete and total lack of alternatives in the huge body of text you posted.
Iâll also wager that if newly arrived Muslims found themselves gently transported back to their countries of origin with the simple explanation that too many of their radical brethren have contaminated their reputation to the point where host countries are no longer willing to risk their arrival, that they might actually begin to consider the ramifications of remaining silent while all the jihadist atrocities happen.
â¦ but the wrong people will get punished.
And I maintain that so long as Islam, as a whole, remains thunderously silent regarding the atrocities being committed in their name that the wrong people arenât necessarily being punished. Itâs a rather simple message; âTake action or face consequences that may not involve results favorable to you.â
Or perhaps you propose that we continue to await each consecutive atrocity and simply gauge our response to each escalating outrage? The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have achieved important goals, but they are far too little in terms of truly averting a WMD attack upon American soil. Do you disagree with this? If so, state your reasons plainly.
I seek solutions that ignite a prompt backlash against jihadist Muslims. Nowhere have I claimed that my ideas are the one and only way to success. I just happen to feel that the threat we face is so significant that conventional diplomacy and traditional preliminary military response doctrines are now outmoded.
Despite what you might think, Islam is not very organized. It's not like there are official spokespeople that the general Moslem public rallies around and affirms.
Do you honestly think that I am unaware of Islamâs decentralized nature? Do you actually think I believe that they have something akin to a Pope? (Which they do not.) So, what do we have then? We have a huge majority of Wahabbist radicals financed by Saudi Arabia and we have the Al-Azhar University in Cairo, both of which are doing little short of throwing gasoline on the fire to put it out.
Contrary to what you maintain, there are some fairly central sources for the violent rhetoric being spewed against us. Large numers of Muslims do embrace what these sources espouse and we are doing very little to correct these outright lies and filth. More importantly, far too many Muslims are willingly adhering to these lies without questioning the incredible hatred and violence they instigate. Why on earth should we remain complacent in the face of this hideous vitriol?
The "run-of-the-mill Moslems who stand up against the gangster Moslems get punished in various and sundry ways--none of them pleasant, which intimidates others from trying to speak out.
Then the time has come for them to take back their religion by force. The German people did not sufficiently resist the cancerous spread of Nazism within their society and if Muslims do not adequately rise up against the genocidal preaching of their imams, then they silently consent to it.
All religions, including Islam, contain an equivalent of The Golden Rule. By that knowledge alone, practicing Muslims must surely know that vocally or tacitly supporting any sort of genocide, be it against Jews or infidels, is to ask for it to be brought upon themselves.
When they sense they won't become targets they will speak out and demonstrate as you saw in Lebanon recently--tens of thousands demonstrating against the terrorist hotel attacks.
And where are those âtens of thousandsâ in demonstrating against the slaughter in Darfur, the anti-Shiite al Qaeda killings in Iraq, Ahmadnejadâs repeated calls to âwipe Israel off of the mapâ? Why do they remain silent except when their own ox is being gored? SHORT ANSWER: Because they tacitly support all of the other atrocities except when it happens to them. My reply is that is not good enough.
People are still people, Zen, and you've simply have got to try and remember that. So, to deport people randomly and en masse, for crimes committed by the whack-jobs, is counterproductive.
And you blithely ignore that tacit approval of atrocities and terrorism is tantamount to abetting them. When Muslims finally realize that their inaction comes at a price, they will begin to act, AND NOT A MOMENT BEFORE. This is the pattern weâve seen to date and nothing has happened to change that impression.
Which Moslems? If you mean the terrorists and governments that support them, okay, no argument here. But you make no distinction. Reprisals that are appropriate in scope is to make sure the leadership in this country is not liberal-leaning, and to continue to fight the terrorists on their turf.
And do you see the âliberal-leaningâ Moslem leaders roundly condemning Ahmadnejadâs genocidal rantings? THEY ARE NOT. Barely any criticism is forthcoming from other Arab nations regarding Iranâs fomenting of genocide. This alone is sufficient reason to make sure a price tag gets attached to their nearly universal silence.
Conceivably, it could get to the point where large-scale terrorist attacks happen and the country they are residing in does and says nothing (Iran and Syria and Saudi Arabia come to mind). That's a whole new ball game, and depending on about 3 million or more variables, military action greater than what's being exercised now, would come into play.
And your sort of dilettantism will likely get a lot of us killed. You neglect to recognize how drastic this situation is now that WMDs have come into play. We no longer have time to play nice. Our doing so will result in one or more nuclear terrorist attacks against America. What will your response be then?
And again, many are quiet out of fear and confusion, not because they agree wholeheartedly with what's going on. They don't necessarily understand their leaders or their religion, and a lot of them want to be "good Moslems" so they just watch from the sidelines. Stupid, I know, but not as atrocious as it seems at first.
Wrong! It is atrocious to sit by silently while others propose genocide. Stupidity should be painful and we must decide whether it is our stupidity or theirs that will be.
Without the kind of healthy, life-oriented focus men can benefit from when women are held in esteem in a society, things can get really rotten really quickly.
Nice psychobabble, thatâs right up there with âun-self-actualized Moslemâ. Guess what? Misogynistic Arabic males are not going to relinquish their grip on the reins until they are pried out of their hands by force. I refer you to Afghanistan.
Give it some time. There are, I wager, more for us in the Moslem world, than there are against us.
If this were 50 years ago, I would agree. Guess what? Itâs not. We have lunatics actively seeking atomic bombs to detonate in American cities and your wait-and-see strategy could get a lot of us killed. If Moslems do not actively begin sorting out their own laundry, many of them will get hung out to dry when the action begins.
But there IS criticism. I read it here and elsewhere often. "Cleaning it's own house" is a little tricky, because you have to ask yourself, "who are the 'cleaners'?" Average citizens? Are they supposed to go and beat up the local imam?
The criticism is a whisper in the midst of a storm. The âcleanersâ are just like our revolutionary forefathers who saw governmental and religious abuse and put their lives on the line to fight it. Those who refuse to do so essentially agree to what is happening.
Next, you say, "As distasteful as I find reprisal mentality on the whole, at some point the world's Muslim population will have to be made to suffer in proportion to the atrocities their radicals inflict." Honestly, I don't think you find reprisal mentality distasteful in the least.
You are very deceitful in your arguments. I find reprisal mentality seriously questionable. I truly disliked much of the Israeliâs reprisal methods and yet, if you examine their own track record in dealing with terrorism, they are one of the few governments to make any progress.
My motherâs relatives died at the hands of Nazi reprisal. So, go ahead, and make your false-hearted accusations. If I truly did not find reprisal methods distasteful, I would certainly not have bothered qualifying them or sought out other suggestions. I simply would have put them forward as inarguably valid. Perhaps, now you see why I typically refuse to respond to any of your usual attacks upon myself. They are rarely even of this low caliber.
Zen, I understand your passion and fury. But I believe itâs misdirected. And really, despite your touting and spouting, I have to wonder if you would really shoot innocents, even if they were Moslem. I mean I don't think so, but we have to be careful with our rhetoric, because words are powerful things. Do this: Picture the Islamic bad boys lined up against a fence. Then sprinkle in Mom-and-Pop restaurant owner, Moslem scholar, a few teenagers, kids, college students--some have hajibs, some look like your average westerner--some are supermodels, some are film makers, some are dissidents against Islamic terrorism, but still maintain their Moslem identity, which they define for themselves. Now I give you an M16, and say "kill the terrorists and terrorsist sympathizers!" What would you do? Think about it. Would you just mow them all down? Now letâs separate them--put the baddies on one side, leave a space, and put the other average types on the other side. Would you still shoot everyone?
Itâs this sort of strawman garbage that I refuse to respond to. Where are your proposed solutions? You are so often bereft of them that I feel you lack the qualifications to attack others who honestly and actively seek them out. Others here display far more moral courage in trying to address what remains a complete and total peril to civilized society.
The "shooting innocents' argument is the one used by the left to justify doing nothing. EX(?)-Lib? The West, and the USA in particular, had better develop a plan for meaningful retaliation, or the ultimate result WILL BE "fry 'em up."
At some point, the Islamists will commit an atrocity so heinous that the West will indiscriminately retaliate - unless Islam can clean itself up first. Zen is correct. The Muslim world must be made to see that atrocities will not be tolerated indefinitely.
Certainly the Islamo-facists are in a war to dominate the world. I would like to think this is not true but I see no data to indicate other wise. Perhaps this notion goes beyond just Islamo-facists. Unless we want to be subjugated either physically oreconomically we have no alternative but to develop plans to deal with growing threats and plans for retaliation for any actions that might be mounted against us. Appeasement has never worked with a people dedicated to ruling the world. Negotiations don't work. A truce such as Bin Laden is suggesting in another post is no truce at all but a ploy to buy time for some other evil deed. Besides these are terrorists. They are supported by Muslim countrys but do not have a country of their own. We are in a war for the existence of the free world--no less.
I was enjoying a day away, doing other things, pleasant things, thinking not about Muzzies and such. I dropped by early, did a quick scan, and boogied with a ladyfriend to pretend for a day that none of this exists, that there isn't a global conflict underway for the very existence of Freedom. I was enjoying some of that "Freedom" stuff.
Now I've screwed up. I couldn't resist have another peek. Shit. Damn. I'm not in the mood for this, today.
I suggest the following:
Islam is Nazism, only far less honest about it. It is an IDEOLOGY. One of Global Dominion (If you've read the qu'uran then you know.), slavery (at least in second-class "citizenship" for non-Muzzies and femalians), barbarity (Can you even imagine female castration and the other forms of terror imposed upon females? Can you really?), and hate (There's a Special Place reserved for the Jooos, of course.).
What would you do about 1.25 Billion Nazis? No, REALLY. What would you do about 1.25 billion Nazis that run more than 20 "countries", have nukes in at least one of them, and almost endless funding?
I suggested that we take away the funding mechanism. That kinda fell flat - at least on a wide scale. Seems we're more willing to kill 'em in small batches than seize the means behind the entire game. Go figure, eh?
I suggest that the Law Enforcement approach is gonna fall just a wee bit short - and that seems to be the only model, other than military invasion, that most folks are willing to entertain. Regards invasion, well, there just ain't enough heroes to go around - we're talking about 20%+ of the planet's critters, here. LE is a non-starter for another reason: it's only really good at after-the-event stuff. Yes, You're dead and we know who did it. Great. I'd feel better if I wasn't, like, dead n' stuff. The lethality of weapons today means I won't be alone in being dead, either. Lots of company.
I suggest that getting off the oil tit isn't sufficient, either. Simple - that solution would be 20 years away if we started today. Good idea. Sure thing, let's get started. But it won't solve what ails us here, now.
The 'fry 'em up" piece is here. Read it, if interested. If you do, please read it carefully, and the whole thread - it's not long. I spent some time on it and I deserve a fair hearing if it's gonna be bandied about.
Now the Real piece, the crux of the biscuit, is the one about Islam as Fatal Human Pathogen. I've posted it a few times already - but have no link. I'll repost it again, someday. Not today. I followed up on it with a short bit here not long ago.
Where do the activated Muzzies, the jihadis, come from? Reasonable question. From previously passive Muzzies, of course. Not many Seventh Day Adventists or wild-eyed Methodists, last time I checked. Who or what activates them? Imams, shitty dictatorship demographics with no hope of success in life (Thanks to Islam, too, of course), fantasy and romanticism (heroes of The Caliphate! Uh, huh.), lots of things. Many things which exist everywhere - but, without the presence of Islam, doesn't cause global strife, splodeydopes, or cutting off a woman's clitoris. What could be the "root cause", ya think?
So let's say they start out as the Mythical Moderate, heh. They are called upon to donate money, or more, to support the, um, Immoderate Muzzies. Gotta do it - everybody's watchin... Then some get tapped for activation - and they do it. The Mythical Moderate is a resource, a huge pool, waiting for the call. Sucks, yeah. But there it is. Fact is, they're not "moderate" at all. If they are practicing Islam, then they are ripe for the picking. Look at Flypaper Iraq. Tap 'n Go. The quickie-mart of Muzzy fodder. Even these "moderate" ones practice barbarity, slavery, and hate. Moderate? Innocent? Really? Just like Nazis who "only supported" the "bad" Nazis? Uh, huh. I see. Go have a nice lie-down.
Nazis. Only worse. Islam.
Honestly, what do we do about 'em?
You don't get to criticize without offering workable alternatives. If you do anyway, then I fart in your general direction.
I'm done for the day. Got a hottie making faces at me. I can't resist. Cuz she's looking over my shoulder, I'll close with Love & Kisses to you all. My take.
Thank you, SR-71, for such an incisive logical reduction. The European mode of "do nothing so that we remain blameless" no longer cuts any ice. In the face of WMDs, we must begin to take action that flatly discourages violent jihad.
I especially appreciate your seeing the connection between inaction and total devastation for Islam. For some time now, I have been predicting that Islam's refusal to discredit genocide will result in a Muslim holocaust. Similarly, our own inaction will eventually manifest in a gran mal spasm of retribution that will likely involve nuclear weapons.
Contrary to what spin artists like ex-lib try to impose upon my words, I am steadfastly attempting to AVOID a nuclear holocaust for Islam. That Muslims show so little awareness of this terrible consequence, or worse, simply ignore it is something that they must learn to do at their own peril.
.com, thank you so much for weighing in. I could not agree more with the context of your "fry 'em up" policy. You advocate decapping and expropriation of oil resources before nuclear retaliation. I had never seen the entirety of your post and its context, and only now am I totally aware of its full aspect. I apologize if I have taken you out of context.
Now that I am aware of the phased nature of your plan, I am in major agreement with it. You do not advocate an outright nuclear attack on Islamic countries. What I see you seeking is distinct steps towards disconnecting jihad from its enabling elements. Should that meet with failure, you then see nuclear holocaust as one of the only alternatives.
As repulsed as I am by nuclear holocaust, at day's end I must concur with you. Given that the other attempts are unsuccessful, something will have to be done about eradicating such a virulent pathogen from our midst.
I'd love to see how ex-lib reconciles my constant attempts to find less violent and deadly solutions in the context of this continuing discussion.
I'll reiterate, .com, that if I have painted you as simply wanting nuclear holocaust without prior intervention, then I have wronged you. I now, even more strongly, believe that you and I seek active and functional solutions to this pressing issue.
The utter lack of realistic solutions posted by ex-lib make me all the more outraged at such trashy hit pieces being aimed my way. Believe it or not, I want peace. Whether that peace includes a single other living Muslim follower is another matter entirely. It is up to Islam to decide whether the future includes them. Should they crave the entire world to themselves, then our future will be one without Muslims. So be it.
Posted by: Sad SacK ||
01/20/2006 20:20 Comments ||
Glolugum is correct. Probably enough said, but for the sake of sponsoring critical thinking here, I will proceed.
"The "shooting innocents' argument is the one used by the left to justify doing nothing. EX(?)-Lib?"
Yeah SR--that's right--EX-LIB. Did I advocate for doing nothing? Did I? Listen, I was outing Islamofacist trolls here probably since before you were born, so unless you're one of Zenster's personal buddies, STFU until you find out more about who's who at the Burg. You're right about the libs using part of that argument to advocate inaction, but that's not what I was doing.
"The utter lack of realistic solutions posted by ex-lib."
Oh God, Zenster-- I said we should continue doing exactly what we're doing--hunt them down, kill them all, and that we should up the ante on hunting terrorists in terms of increased military support, which of course would include terrorist cells, and that things will change dramatically, in terms of the impact of our directives against terrorist-harboring countries as the plans of Iran and Syria (with the backing of Russia and China) come into focus.
And for an even more clear-cut bit of advice, may I suggest this link . Note: for honest, intelligent inquirers only. Just a quick look through the side bar excerpts is enough for starters.
Zenster always tries to butter people up when things aren't going his way, argument-wise. Like:
"Thank you, SR-71, for such an incisive logical reduction," says Zenster.
".com, thank you so much for weighing in, I could not agree more with . . ." says Zenster.
It's always the same. This is his pattern. Divide and (try to) conquer. But I and others who remember, are not so gullible.
Zenster says: "Notice how I am seeking suggestions? Do you even care as you continue to lambaste me?"
Lambaste you? You're paranoid. Remember, I said "Zen, I understand your passion and fury. But I believe itâs misdirected." Hardly a lambasting. I was looking at your arguments, not you. Yet you accuse me of being a spin artist. Cute, but no cigar.
"The time has come for Muslims to begin sharing our pain." What in the hell does that mean?
"At some point the world's Muslim population will have to be made to suffer in proportion to the atrocities their radicals inflict." What in the hell does that mean?
"Force ten times the number of recent Muslim arrivals to return to their country of origin." Oh right, that would work. Just indiscriminantly round 'em up and ship 'em out. Hey, you could start with all the Iranians in Los Angeles. And then they could be shot by the mullah government they came here to get away from, right?
"If we do not have the courage to take the shrines hostage or some other significant move, then we need to implement measures that begin to inflict hardship in proportion to the way that Islamists commit their atrocities. Again, what in the hell does that mean? Exactly what are you advocating for? Do we need to add up our war losses, along with the civililan casualites of 9-11 and then go kill that many Moslems. Hey--let's start in Iraq. Yeah, that'd work.
"ex-lib; due to previous incivility upon your own part, I find it difficult to take much time responding to your albeit lengthy reply." Well, you didn't find it too difficult, did you? As for my lack of civility? Want to cite some? If people think Zenster is that nice a guy, think twice. A couple of years ago, when he had not worked as hard at developing his mode of operation and facade, he said to me:
"You deserve every iota of the bile, vitriol and raw sewage floating in your veins. The sterile and intolerant vision of society that you stand for has already manifested in history many times. Sixty years ago countless thousands of American went abroad to fight it and many of them died doing so." Ain't that sweet? Which you can find at this link It was during the Beslan massacre. He was equating me with Nazis.
So, Zen, what do you propose in lieu of your above suggestions? And BTW, your accusation of my illustration of the outcome of YOUR ARGUMENT:
"Zen, I understand your passion and fury. But I believe itâs misdirected. And really, despite your touting and spouting, I have to wonder if you would really shoot innocents, even if they were Moslem. I mean I don't think so, but we have to be careful with our rhetoric, because words are powerful things. Do this: Picture the Islamic bad boys lined up against a fence. Then sprinkle in Mom-and-Pop restaurant owner, Moslem scholar, a few teenagers, kids, college students--some have hajibs, some look like your average westerner--some are supermodels, some are film makers, some are dissidents against Islamic terrorism, but still maintain their Moslem identity, which they define for themselves. Now I give you an M16, and say "kill the terrorists and terrorsist sympathizers!" What would you do? Think about it. Would you just mow them all down? Now letâs separate them--put the baddies on one side, leave a space, and put the other average types on the other side. Would you still shoot everyone?"
That is NOT strawman garbage. If you just go retaliating, it's an equivalent, albeit large-scale, enactment of the same.
You say Moslems are silent and never speak out (NOT true), thtat Moslems tacitly approve of the actions of the terrorists (Not true), and that they should pay for the actions of gangsters (NOT true).
I know you know it's not true. Here on Rantburg there are plenty of links to websites sponsored by Moslems who are against the whole Islamofacist jihad ideology and war.
As .com says, radical Islam will not yield to our "messages" as in Afghanistan and Iraq, nor to a Hiroshima. Neither did the Nazis as we amassed a tremendous force and crossed the English Channel. And so we will ultimately exterminate radical Islam, just as we did the Nazis. At great cost and with lots of collateral damage. Iran and Syria are next. And probably then parts of Pakistan. Islam cannot be permitted to have WMDs any more than the Nazis.
The process will play out over the next decade. Iranians in Los Angeles will not likely be rounded up and put in camps or deported, but ultimately the words and symbols of radical Islam will have to be as forbidden as Nazi words and symbols are in Germany and Austria today.
Just as WWII left a bloody trail from the English Channel to Berlin, so too will there be a bloody trail across the Middle East. The difference is that we can now do a Dresden on a moment's notice. We can reach anywhere at any time and totally destroy it. We just have to be pushed -- and they ARE pushing. I'm not talking about Osama -- he's a joker in a mud hut with a cassette recorder. He's a low priority. But the hostile elements in Iran and Syria and Pakistan need to meet an end like that of Hitler and the SS.
Okay SR. You said, "The "shooting innocents' argument is the one used by the left to justify doing nothing." So, I assume you approve of shooting innocents, since you (falsely) claim I'm using the liberals' shooting innocents argument FOR doing nothing. If you call 'em like you see 'em, may I suggest you get some glasses, or better yet, reread the posts for accuracy. And if you had been around here, you would know me (not that I care if you know me), but what can I say on your behalf? Ooopsie? .com and I go back, so that's a starter. Back in the day I routed and outed Antiwar and Gentle as being in cahoots, Islamic, not Australian (as Antiwar claimed to be), male, and a group, not individuals. But, I guess you knew that, already, huh? If not, check the archives. I, too, call them like I see them, and while .com is frustrated with the situation (to put it mildly), Zen has always had an agenda based largely on his special interest group. That's my take.
Next time don't so easily accuse someone of holding to liberal arguments. It was completely offensive, and the button you hit was the fact that you insulted me.
My message to you is about the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and the way to end it.
I had not intended to speak to you about this issue, because, for us, this issue is already decided on: diamonds cut diamonds.
Praise be to God, our conditions are always improving and becoming better, while your conditions are to the contrary of this.
However, what prompted me to speak are the repeated fallacies of your President Bush in his comment on the outcome of the US opinion polls, which indicated that the overwhelming majority of you want the withdrawal of the forces from Iraq, but he objected to this desire and said that the withdrawal of troops would send a wrong message to the enemy.
Bush said: It is better to fight them on their ground than they fighting us on our ground.
In my response to these fallacies, I say: The war in Iraq is raging, and the operations in Afghanistan are on the rise in our favour, praise be to God.
The Pentagon figures indicate the rise in the number of your dead and wounded, let alone the huge material losses, and let alone the collapse of the morale of the soldiers there and the increase in the suicide cases among them.
So, just imagine the state of psychological breakdown that afflicts the soldier while collecting the remnants of his comrades' dead bodies after they hit mines, which torn them. Following such situation, the soldier becomes between two fires. If he refuses to go out of his military barracks for patrols, he will face the penalties of the Vietnam butcher, and if he goes out, he will face the danger of mines.
So, he is between two bitter situations, something which puts him under psychological pressure - fear, humiliation, and coercion. Moreover, his people are careless about him. So, he has no choice but to commit suicide.
What you hear about him and his suicide is a strong message to you, which he wrote with his blood and soul while pain and bitterness eat him up so that you would save what you can save from this hell. However, the solution is in your hand if you care about them.
The news of our brother mujahideen, however, is different from what is published by the Pentagon.
This news indicates that what is carried by the news media does not exceed what is actually taking place on the ground. What increases doubts on the information of the White House's administration is its targeting of the news media, which carry some facts about the real situation.
Documents have recently showed that the butcher of freedom in the world [US President Bush] had planned to bomb the head office of al-Jazeera Space Channel in the state of Qatar after he bombed its offices in Kabul and Baghdad, although despite its defects, it is [Al-Jazeera] one of your creations.
Jihad is continuing, praise be to God, despite all the repressive measures the US army and its agents take to the point where there is no significant difference between these crimes and those of Saddam.
These crimes include the raping of women and taking them hostage instead of their husbands. There is no power but in God.
The torturing of men has reached the point of using chemical acids and electric drills in their joints. If they become desperate with them, they put the drill on their heads until death.
If you like, read the humanitarian reports on the atrocities and crimes in the prisons of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo.
I say that despite all the barbaric methods, they have failed to ease resistance, and the number of mujahideen, praise be to God, is increasing.
In fact, reports indicate that the defeat and devastating failure of the ill-omened plan of the four - Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz - and the announcement of this defeat and working it out, is only a matter of time, which is to some extent linked to the awareness of the American people of the magnitude of this tragedy.
The wise ones know that Bush has no plan to achieve his alleged victory in Iraq.
If you compare the small number of the dead when Bush made that false and stupid show-like announcement from an aircraft carrier on the end of the major operations, to many times as much as this number of the killed and injured, who fell in the minor operations, you will know the truth in what I am saying, and that Bush and his administration do not have neither the desire nor the will to withdraw from Iraq for their own dubious reasons.
To go back to where I started, I say that the results of the poll satisfy sane people and that Bush's objection to them is false.
Reality testifies that the war against America and its allies has not remained confined to Iraq, as he claims.
In fact, Iraq has become a point of attraction and recruitment of qualified resources.
On the other hand, the mujahideen, praise be to God, have managed to breach all the security measures adopted by the unjust nations of the coalition time and again.
The evidence of this is the bombings you have seen in the capitals of the most important European countries of this aggressive coalition.
As for the delay in carrying out similar operations in America, this was not due to failure to breach your security measures.
Operations are under preparation, and you will see them on your own ground once they are finished, God willing.
Based on the above, we see that Bush's argument is false. However, the argument that he avoided, which is the substance of the results of opinion polls on withdrawing the troops, is that it is better not to fight the Muslims on their land and for them not to fight us on our land.
We do not object to a long-term truce with you on the basis of fair conditions that we respect.
We are a nation, for which God has disallowed treachery and lying.
In this truce, both parties will enjoy security and stability and we will build Iraq and Afghanistan, which were destroyed by the war.
There is no defect in this solution other than preventing the flow of hundreds of billions to the influential people and war merchants in America, who supported Bush's election campaign with billions of dollars.
Hence, we can understand the insistence of Bush and his gang to continue the war.
If you have a genuine will to achieve security and peace, we have already answered you.
If Bush declines but to continue lying and practicing injustice [against us], it is useful for you to read the book of "The Rogue State", the introduction of which reads: If I were a president, I would halt the operations against the United States.
First, I will extend my apologies to the widows, orphans, and the persons who were tortured. Afterwards, I will announce that the US interference in the world's countries has ended for ever.
Finally, I would like to tell you that the war is for you or for us to win. If we win it, it means your defeat and disgrace forever as the wind blows in this direction with God's help.
If you win it, you should read the history. We are a nation that does not tolerate injustice and seek revenge forever.
Days and nights will not go by until we take revenge as we did on 11 September, God willing, and until your minds are exhausted and your lives become miserable and things turn [for the worse], which you detest.
As for us, we do not have anything to lose. The swimmer in the sea does not fear rain. You have occupied our land, defiled our honour, violated our dignity, shed our blood, ransacked our money, demolished our houses, rendered us homeless, and tampered with our security. We will treat you in the same way.
You tried to deny us the decent life, but you cannot deny us a decent death. Refraining from performing jihad, which is sanctioned by our religion, is an appalling sin. The best way of death for us is under the shadows of swords.
Do not be deluded by your power and modern weapons. Although they win some battles, they lose the war. Patience and steadfastness are better than them. What is important is the outcome.
We have been tolerant for 10 years in fighting the Soviet Union with our few weapons and we managed to drain their economy.
They became history, with God's help.
You should learn lessons from that. We will remain patient in fighting you, God willing, until the one whose time has come dies first. We will not escape the fight as long as we hold our weapons in our hands.
I swear not to die but a free man even if I taste the bitterness of death. I fear to be humiliated or betrayed.
"These crimes include the raping of women and taking them hostage instead of their husbands."
Hmm . . . so it's the husbands that want to be raping and taking the women hostage.
Aside from Bin Laden's support of the liberal press, and his propagandizing about American soldiers commiting suicide and torturing prisoners of war (by drilling their heads until they die), he still illustrates, pretty clearly, their issue with unresolved sexual abuse issues:
This is a recurring theme which cannot be mended, regardless of what happens politically. If one imagined "source" of humiliation is addressed/eliminated, the "source" changes to the next likely group, whether Arab or non-Arab.
At least he illustrates what an absolute lunatic he is with this threat, and it's a nice view into how infantile and undeveloped, random, and grandiose their ideas can be--so out of touch with reality.
The only credible threat is their hook-up with Iran/Syria and their ability to be obsessed with themselves and to wait and wait. They've chosen not to have much else to do with their lives, whereas Americans have a lot of other things to do with their lives, so we can get sick of the whole thing a lot sooner. Not that we can't beat them--but informed resolve and a clear estimation of their abilities needs to accompany our plans if we are commited to victory.
I was actually going to rag on how Bin Ladenâs best hope now is Sheenan but its too close to the truth to be funny now. The jokes about him taking points off Farenhieght 911 is freaking serious now, he even quotes Rogue State a radical anti-American book.
Early on in this war many often joked about alliance between the LLLâs and the Islamist like the ones the Islamist formed with the Naziâs neither side really cares for the other but enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of thing. If this is the real full transcript I believe that joke was not very funny at all.
This is not a Hudna this is an open hand of alliance with the LLLâs against a common enemy Bushitler, Amerika and her Military Industrial Complex. The groundwork is theyâre with the âpeace groups in Palestineâ and the anti-war rallies were the US is the real enemy; Kaliftaâs are a fashion statement, if you are Arab or Palestinian anti-American you are highly welcome.
I still consider the idea of civil war again red/blue laughable, but those few radical LLLâs that actually believe their rhetoric just enough that with some AQ guidance maybe willing to go stupid. I think those guys just got an offer of alliance.
c-low, you may be right. Especially considering his diamonds cut diamonds comment. One of the first steps in diamond cutting is to cleave the
Basically, diamonds cut diamonds. We can also trick a diamond by taking advantage of its weaknesses. In the late fifteenth century, a craftsman cut diamonds by placing a chisel at a weak spot in the diamond's crystal structure and then whacked the chisel with a mallet. If he had selected well, the diamond neatly fell in two. If he picked the wrong spot, the diamond shattered.
A diamond crystal is essentially two pyramids stuck together â an octahedron. See figure. Consequently, the craftsman can cleave the crystal in any one of the four directions parallel to the crystal faces and, theoretically, succeed. We still cleave diamonds, especially big ones, into suitable pieces before sawing. Diamond saws were invented in the twentieth century. This was a major innovation because it permits cuts against the grain of the diamond without shattering.
The saw rotates at about 4,000 revolutions a minute and cuts with diamond dust. The rim of the paper-thin disc (originally made of steel and now of phosphor bronze) is saturated with diamond dust and lubricated continually with oil. The diamond dust sticks to the oiled rim. As the dust on the rim cuts, diamond dust whirs away from the cutting blade and continually replenishes rim dust. It takes time (about four to eight hours for a 1-carat rough diamond) but gradually diamond dust cuts the diamond crystal.
" . . . his is an open hand of alliance with the LLLâs against a common enemy Bushitler, Amerika and her Military Industrial Complex"
Righteeoh. Those who want to destroy America (and we now know there are plenty enough) and supplant the Constitutional Republic with a version of Socialism/Communism, must FIRST AND FOREMOST seek to destroy the base of reasonable conservatism, the socio-cultural identity of America as envisioned in the extant ideologies that propel us toward excellence, and finally the military.
This is a real battle, and no matter how stupid, inane, insane, and ludicrous these Islamics and their cohorts in the LLL seem, they are for real and they mean to see it through. And the fact is, people DID laugh at Hitler because his ideas were so outside the norm and seemed ridiculously radical and ungrounded.
I'm really worried about it because I'm not as comfortable with Linux as with Windows. Plus I keep finding pages I've forgotten to convert to .php. I've got the backup box set up so it'll work in theory, but I won't know if I've got it right until I actually make the switch. If not, then we'll be down for longer than I want while I try to find what I did wrong.
I'm hoping to keep the downtime to under an hour, but I know something will go wrong. It's done that before just on simple Windows swaps...
Fred, this is the most valuable site on the Web, bar none. My thanks to you. Please take your time with the swap- don't worry about the deprivation, suffering, pain and anguish out there in the Burg. We will get by.
Hear, hear to all! Thanks Fred for your timely and appropriate website, which I wish I could visit even more often than I do. Good luck and God speed on the switch and may all the hackers get their 72 (cyberspace) raisins!
Fred, if you ever need to switch again...
I booted Plan-9 from Bell Labs the other day. It was so seriously weird I couldn't figure out what was going on and threw it in the junk pile. No hacker is ever going to break into that OS! Just partner with some refugee from Bell Labs and you would be set. (Ritchie designed it and his division just got shutdown the other day. Seems he might have some time on his hands)
BTW running apache on linux the most common problem's I had were with root-kit kiddies and folks trying to use the machine as a bounce reflector to other sites. (the last was really a pain as html allows it.)
For the root-kit guys ... you need to get the "chkrootkit" package and put it on cron for a non-busy hour.
Seafarious, dear, you're supposed to put "Blog Moderator/Assistant God" in that space. Or "Assistant Goddess" if you're feeling persnickety that day. Technically speaking, Fred creates, and you mods run, our favourite pocket universe. So there!
My list includes ice cream and a good novel .... plus spare batteries for that flashlight. I've gassed up my portable generator in case things get desperate and I try to surf out to some second-rate site to get a fix while waiting for the Burg to return ....
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
01/20/2006 13:22 Comments ||
thanks Fred...I'll make sure to sleep in then...
otherwise I'll get the shakes
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/20/2006 13:48 Comments ||
Thanks Fred. I'm on kiddie duty tomorrow (wife at lacrosse seminar) so I won't be able to visit anyway. Take your time and do it right. You are right, something will go wrong. Again, what you do is hugely appreciated.
A Fatwa on all the hackers, rootkiddies, warez playthings, and wedgie nogs. May the fleas of a thousand rabid camels infest them! May they always be forced to pray into the wind. May a sandstorm of a thousand years infest their xbox, and may their computer melt faster than a snocone in the Empty Quarter.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
01/20/2006 13:50 Comments ||
Sorry for the extra work, Fred, but it proves you're doin' somethin' right! Rantburg's got 'em all in a panic. Keep up the good work.
Absotively! But I need too coordinate with Fred and (a moderator to be named later), after Fred gets the Linux box up and running so he can turn his back without skriddies running wild thru the archives.
The venue will be Baltimore, so all you DC 'Burgers start thinking how you'll get there. Date, time, watering hole to be named later.
But I'm definitely up for a DC happy hour. Send me an email and let's work something out.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.