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Three top terror leaders killed in the Philippines
Today's Headlines
Headline Comments [Views]
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Page 6: Politix
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-Lurid Crime Tales-
$1 million bond for brain-eating axe murderer
Posted by: ryuge || 02/02/2012 00:00 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  So eyeballs taste like oysters? Who'da thunk it?
Posted by: Anguper Hupomosing9418 || 02/02/2012 0:15 Comments || Top||

#2  George Soros, someone needs your help here.
Posted by: gorb || 02/02/2012 7:40 Comments || Top||

#3  do they really need a professional too tell if he is bat shit crazy.
Posted by: chris || 02/02/2012 8:04 Comments || Top||

#4  Braaiinnsss!!!
Posted by: Glenmore || 02/02/2012 12:40 Comments || Top||

#5  "He seemed like a very nice man, kept to himself..."
Posted by: mojo || 02/02/2012 13:58 Comments || Top||

#6  Racist, cannibaliphobic comments, all.
Posted by: Besoeker || 02/02/2012 17:34 Comments || Top||

#7  Not so, Beso. My comment was zombieistic (sp?)
Posted by: Glenmore || 02/02/2012 19:22 Comments || Top||


-Short Attention Span Theater-
Russians admit US radar was not behind Mars probe failure
Posted by: DarthVader || 02/02/2012 17:05 || Comments || Link || [0 views] Top|| File under:


Slovak Lawmakers Strip in Campaign to Strip Immunity
[An Nahar] Slovak politicians have stripped naked in support of a campaign to strip politicians of their immunity from prosecution, a motion which parliament was set to debate on Tuesday.

A picture featuring 17 politicians from the liberal Freedom and Solidarity party (SaS)
Just for clarification, do they mean American-style liberal/progressive, or British-style liberal/libertarian?
wearing nothing but a banner saying "let's strip politicians of their immunity" was posted on the party's Facebook page and published in country's biggest tabloid Novy Cas this week.
Whatever their politics, they certainly care about clarity of message. Aren't they having serious snowfalls in that part of the world?
"Lawmakers are mere humans just like anybody else and do not need privileges such as immunity from prosecution," the party said.

Slovak politicians are protected from criminal prosecution as long as they hold their four-year mandate, and a number of MPs have evaded punishment for drinking and driving.

SaS initiated a referendum in 2010 on stripping politicians of some of their perks, including immunity, but it failed due to low voter turnout.

"This is the last parliamentary session before the March 10 early election, so it's the last chance to cancel the immunity," SaS politician Martin Chren, who also posed in the picture, told Agence La Belle France Presse.
Posted by: Fred || 02/02/2012 00:00 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:


Africa North
More than 70 Killed in Mayhem at Soccer Match in Egypt
[NY Times] At least 73 people were killed in a brawl between rival groups of soccer fans after a match in the city of Port Said on Wednesday in the bloodiest episode of lawlessness since the ouster of President Hosni Mubarak
...The former President-for-Life of Egypt, dumped by popular demand in early 2011...
one year ago.

Police officers around the stadium appeared unable or unwilling to control the violence, and video footage showed officers standing idle as groups of fans attacked each other with knives and other weapons.

In addition to the dead, Health Ministry officials said more than 1,000 people were maimed, some from a stampede in the stadium. Locker rooms were turned into makeshift field hospitals, and by around 10 p.m. armored state security vehicles had arrived to transport the visiting team and its fans -- from Cairo's Ahly club -- safely out of Port Said.
Posted by: Fred || 02/02/2012 00:00 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Well, at least they were too busy to murder Copts on that day.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru || 02/02/2012 2:00 Comments || Top||

#2  Let me guess:

nil - nil.
Posted by: swksvolFF || 02/02/2012 11:31 Comments || Top||

#3  Never have I heard such a shocking tragedy I cared so little about.
Posted by: SteveS || 02/02/2012 19:32 Comments || Top||


Ennahda member stirs controversy
[Magharebia] The latest controversy to flare up in Tunisia's Constituent Assembly occurred after a prominent Ennahda member slammed labour protestors, citing a Qur'anic verse.

"Those who cut off roads and railways, paralysed the work of factories and mines and set fire to the public utilities in Tunisia during recent months are pockets of apostasy that seek corruption on the land," Sadok Chourou told the assembly on Monday (January 23rd).

In what some described as a call for hadd (sharia punishment) against protestors, Chourou referred to verse 5:33.

"Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment," Chourou said, citing the Qur'an.

The remarks prompted a litany of reactions from human rights
...which often intentionally defined so widely as to be meaningless...
defenders and the opposition.

The Tunisian League for the Defence of Human Rights (LTDH) accused Chourou of "incitement to violence, murder and exile".

The league issued a press statement, a copy of which was sent to the Ennahda member, saying that it "strongly condemns these statements and regards them as an invitation to deal with the sit-ins with intimidation and abuse, rather than dealing with them through dialogue and application of the law".

The LTDH is "surprised by the issuance of this dangerous statement from a representative of the people and before the eyes and ears of the president and members of the National Constituent Assembly", the statement read.

Chourou fired back, blaming "media exaggeration" in their claims that citing a Qur'anic verse gives rise to hatred.

"The Ennahda Movement is firm in its Islamic authority and Islamic discourse, and it is one of its advantages and original principles," he maintained.

Chourou explained that he referred to those who disrupt the economy and in no way called for enforcing hadd against protestors.

However,
ars longa, vita brevis...
the explanation failed to assuage many critics.

Communist Workers' Party front man Hamma Hammami told Magharebia, "What Sadok Chourou did in citing this verse is incite public opinion against the demonstrators and protesters using religion to cast them as enemies of God and His Prophet."

Chourou's reading of the verse is a "truncated reading, and it was used inappropriately in him talking about sit-ins and protests, which were not present at the time the revelation of this holy Qur'anic verse", according to doctor and academic Mohamed Talbi.

"Chorou's address is mixing politics and religion," he added.

"Using the Koran to justify the new dictatorship is dangerous and will lead us to what will ultimately have dire consequences," Monia Mezni, 45, told Magharebia.

"The call to implement Islamic law and in a distorted way returns Tunisia to a new dictatorship, nothing more," Maya Shayeb said.
Posted by: Fred || 02/02/2012 00:00 || Comments || Link || [2 views] Top|| File under: Arab Spring

#1  The Ennahda Movement is firm in its Islamic authority and Islamic discourse

The former being absolute and the latter one-way...
Posted by: Pappy || 02/02/2012 14:10 Comments || Top||


China-Japan-Koreas
Tensions rise in Tibet as Chinese security forces bring fear to the streets
Chinese security forces
No doubt suffering from altitude sickness
are cracking down on the basic liberties of the Tibetan people. Witnesses report random home searches and warnings not to discuss politics on calls outside the country.

According to Stephanie Brigden, the director of Free Tibet, Chinese authorities are using intimidation and surveillance to install a culture of fear.
Is that something new?
The latest crackdown in Tibet and surrounding provinces was prompted by Beijing's fear that protests in neighboring Sichuan province by Tibetans could spread to Tibet. Chinese authorities claim that in neighboring Sichuan, "mobs" of rock-wielding Tibetan separatists attacked police stations and civilians.

Posted by: Mike Ramsey || 02/02/2012 00:00 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  ION DEFENCE.PK/FORUMS > CHINA DEMANDS [demanded] ITS SHARE OF ARUNUCHAL PRADESH, during the Sino-Indian Special representative talks which ended 01/17th.

Indjuh was not happy as it was hoping to discuss other matters.

* WOLRD NEWS > CHINA PROTESTS JAPAN ISLANDS-NAMING PLAN. Up to 39 islands + islets, etc. including the China-claimed Daoyus = Japanese Senkakus.

* TOPIX > AUSTRALIAN DEFENCE PLAN CALLS FOR US TO SEND MORE [US Navy] NUCLEAR VESSELS.

* RUSSIA TODAY > JAPAN WON'T GET KURIL ISLANDS - MIRONOV [Fair Party].

versus

* TOPIX > US BI-PARTISAN STRATEGY TO CLOSE [surplus] OVERSEAS BASES.

Bases Review Panel startup for proposed new BRACS.
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 02/02/2012 0:18 Comments || Top||

#2  EU condemnation in 5..4..3
Posted by: g(r)omgoru || 02/02/2012 2:01 Comments || Top||

#3  Perhaps the Tibets are realizing that they've been checked by Chinese rail lines and attempts to bring Chinese up into Tibet, and if they don't do something demographic trends will basically eliminate them.
Posted by: rjschwarz || 02/02/2012 10:15 Comments || Top||

#4  Han Chinese cannot live "long term" at the altitudes that make up most of Tibet. They get there and start to get sick (and tired). I dont think most Han want to be shipped to Tibet and most Tibetans dont want to have to live with Han Chinese, I mean who would?
Posted by: 746 || 02/02/2012 10:57 Comments || Top||

#5  Can't live up there? Nonsense. There is nothing magical about the air that people can't aclimate too. That is why the Chinese built/are building a rail connection. To move a large population up there.
Posted by: rjschwarz || 02/02/2012 14:52 Comments || Top||

#6  Last time I went to Denver I felt kinda out of it the first two days. By the third day I was back up to snuff.
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 || 02/02/2012 16:05 Comments || Top||

#7  I think that a new word is needed, combining the concepts of genocide with gradualism. Using "slow force" to displace a people from their land, taking their resources, denying them commerce, while giving advantages to the invading peoples, until they so outnumber the locals that the locals can be marginalized into extinction.

While going on for a while in Tibet, the Chinese are also carrying this out in other minority regions, such as among the Uyghur in western China.

This has happened a lot in history, but is almost never thought of as a genocide, though it accomplishes the same goals.

The use of force in such situations is always measured, but not based on the level of resistance, but on the advancement of the program.

Oddly enough, this is common throughout the world, most often used as an effort to "Islamicize" a place via immigration.
Posted by: Anonymoose || 02/02/2012 18:57 Comments || Top||

#8 

Reference #7:

London's Heathrow Airport. I was just there yesterday. Without the signage, you'd never know where you were.
Posted by: Besoeker || 02/02/2012 18:59 Comments || Top||


Economy
Senate Planning to Keystone The One
Sen. John Hoeven, R-N.D., joined by 43 other Republican senators and one Democrat, introduced a bill Monday to authorize the construction of the Keystone XL pipeline from Alberta to the Gulf of Mexico, despite President Obama's nixing of the idea last week.

The Congressional Research Service found that, under the Constitution's commerce clause, Congress is in charge of such stuff as the Keystone pipeline, said Ryan Bernstein, (deputy chief of staff and legal counsel for Hoeven).

Going back to President Grant in the 1870s, presidents have asserted an executive power to determine if commercial projects moving across the nation's borders are warranted, if the states fail to act, Bernstein said. Back then it was telegraph cables laid on the ocean's floor. Since 1968, there has been a more explicit process requiring the State Department to sign off on such a pipeline coming in from another country, Bernstein said.
So Hillary flexed her mighty muscles, and -
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton recommended to Obama he reject the pipeline idea, and he did.
Just so he could blame her, if the fires get too hot.
But Hoeven and other senators decided to make this about first principles -- as far as separation of powers comes in, anyway -- and commissioned the Congressional Research Service to study what Congress' prerogatives might be.

The bill introduced Monday would allow Nebraska "to take all the time it needs," to determine the best route for the Keystone XL pipeline, he said.

Meanwhile, TransCanada can begin building the pipeline from either or both ends. It could become useful before completion, by helping drain the over-supply of petroleum at the legendary Cushing, Okla., terminals, to the Gulf, Bernstein said.
I'd like to see Obama's face if that got started. Just a little piece over here, and another little piece over there.... No permits required! Until the last few 'little pieces'.
House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, promised a similar bill would pass in the House.

Bernstein said the bill, if passed, should be "a very interesting" challenge to Obama's exercise of executive power in such matters.
We could be living in "interesting times".
Posted by: Bobby || 02/02/2012 09:52 || Comments || Link || [5 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Pretty much anything you do now requires Gov't approval of an Environmental Impact Statement; that would presumably include any individual Keystone segments.
Posted by: Glenmore || 02/02/2012 12:46 Comments || Top||

#2  Most of the route for the pipeline already has the completed EIS.
Posted by: tipover || 02/02/2012 14:06 Comments || Top||

#3  Generaly, Glenmore, you are correct.

Legally, there are limitations, and if you avoid involving the US government, you can get off easier.

In 1991, there was a proposal to build a $6 billion high-speed rail project in Texas. An EIS was not required, (no Federal money), but I agreed that it would be madness to try to avoid it - it was just too big. Southwest Airlines would've gone to the mat to assure an EIS was performed.
Posted by: Bobby || 02/02/2012 14:09 Comments || Top||


Science & Technology
Europe's cold snap claims 160
Countries from Italy to Ukraine struggled to cope with temperatures that plunged to record lows in some places.

Nine more people died in Poland overnight as temperatures hit minus 32 degrees in the southwest, bringing the overall toll to 29 since the deep freeze began last week, national police said.

In Ukraine, tens of thousands of people have headed to shelters trying to escape the freeze that the emergencies ministry said has now killed 63 people.

Most of the dead literally froze to death on the street, with only a handful making it to hospital before succumbing to hypothermia, the ministry said.

Shivering and hungry, tens of thousands of Ukrainians have sought help in the more than 2000 temporary shelters set up by the authorities to help the poor survive the fearsome spell of cold weather.
Started lynching wormists yet?
Posted by: g(r)omgoru || 02/02/2012 14:03 || Comments || Link || [3 views] Top|| File under:

#1  would be nice if it was centered on the "academics" at East Anglia
Posted by: Frank G || 02/02/2012 15:40 Comments || Top||

#2  It's "weather," which has nothing to do with "climate..."
Posted by: M. Murcek || 02/02/2012 17:34 Comments || Top||

#3  Rising Atlantic Seas + "GREAT/MIGHTY SLUSHY" = no more Couples' walks along the [now-sunken/underwater shorelines beneath the White Cliffs of Dover.

versus

* LUCIANNE > {Scientists] CONCERNS GROW OVER VOLCANIC ERUPTIONS.

[1960's = "2012" MOVIE > TIBETAN-MONK-VS-HIMALAYAN-TIDAL WAVE here].
Posted by: JosephMendiola || 02/02/2012 23:35 Comments || Top||


Southeast Asia
Ferry Sinks In Papua New Guinea, 300 Missing
Posted by: Grunter || 02/02/2012 00:13 || Comments || Link || [1 views] Top|| File under:

#1  Salt water crocs, sharks etc.. not a good coast to sink upon.
Posted by: Water Modem || 02/02/2012 7:42 Comments || Top||

#2  Update: 238 people saved thus far. "More than 100" feared dead.
Eighty percent of embarking passengers were young students on their way to enroll in college in Lae.
Rescue coordinated by Australian Maritime authorities in Canberra.
(from "The Australian")
Posted by: Grunter || 02/02/2012 8:32 Comments || Top||

#3  Thank you for keeping us updated, Grunter. A dreadful tragedy.
Posted by: trailing wife || 02/02/2012 18:51 Comments || Top||


Syria-Lebanon-Iran
Russia's self-defeating game in Syria
"Jeffrey Mankoff is an adjunct fellow with the Center for Strategic and International Studies Russia and Eurasia Program and a visiting scholar at Columbia University in New York City."
CNN is a proud member of the mainstream media, anxious to maintain its liberal bona fides so that women will continue to talk to them at K street parties.
"Haven't I seen you in the Buffalo airport lounge?"
The article's thesis is that while it is understandable that Russia has strategic interests at risk in Syria (e.g. arms contracts and a naval base), by staunchly backing
pencilneck
Russia is putting those very interests at risk.

The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Middle East and North Africa Department remains a bastion of old Nazis Arabists, many of whom continue to view the region through cold war lenses. Those who do not, view
pencilneck
as a counterweight to the US and as an assurance that Russia will have a seat at the table as the region's future is being determined.

But by bucking the Arab League on Syria, Moscow is jeopardizing its relations with governments across the Middle East who, since the Arab Spring, are increasingly responsive to public opinion. When
pencilneck
goes, those who replace him will not quickly forgive Russia for backing
the suppressor of Damascus
to the bitter end.
Posted by: Mike Ramsey || 02/02/2012 12:35 || Comments || Link || [7 views] Top|| File under:


Home Front: Culture Wars
Indiana becomes 23rd "right-to-work" state
INDIANAPOLIS (Reuters) - Indiana became the 23rd state to pass anti-union "right-to-work" legislation on Wednesday and the first in the nation's manufacturing heartland, dealing a blow to organized labor by allowing workers to opt out of paying union dues.

Indiana's Republican governor Mitch Daniels signed the legislation into law immediately after it was given final approval in the state Senate, making Indiana the first state to adopt such a measure since Oklahoma did so a decade ago.

Daniels, governor since 2005 and a prominent spokesman for Republicans nationally, said he decided Indiana needed the controversial new law after several businesses decided to locate elsewhere.
This is huge. Indiana was a huge union state with very, very powerful unions. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end for these big union leaches.
Posted by: DarthVader || 02/02/2012 10:58 || Comments || Link || [4 views] Top|| File under:

#1  This is great news!
Soon we will be able to compete with Vietnamese factory workers based on pay rates!
I for one would like to see the minimum wage annihilated and a MAXIMUM wage law enacted to legally mandate us to be the lowest paid workers on the planet.
Imagine all the factories that would flock here!We'd all be virtually guaranteed full employment in a rewarding and fast paced industry like bauxite processing or assembling iPods.
Of course, this won't apply to management or company officers, that would be bad form.
Posted by: bigjim-CA || 02/02/2012 11:43 Comments || Top||

#2  You missed the /sarc Jim.

The mass of union expansion has been in the public sector not private sector. The most significant number in the recent Bureau of Labor Statistics release on unionization is probably this: Only 6.9 percent of private sector workers are in unions. That’s the same percent as last year. In the middle of the 20th century, it was 35%. … The number is significant because it suggests that labor’s much-publicized private sector organizing drives have failed. - Kaus.

Collective Bargaining is Newspeak for Closed Shop by other means which has devolved into a source of revenue for one political party. The employees of the state are suppose to work for the people, the basis of a sovereign state. The people don't exist to serve the union.
Posted by: Procopius2k || 02/02/2012 11:52 Comments || Top||

#3  There's only one single (on it's own) solitary way to sustainably raise wages.

That's to have employers competing to employ people, because productivity is high and thus the economy booming.

Have a leech union extract a private tax on business and you'll ruin the economy and lessen pay in the wider economy.

All the government can do is TRANSFER (with a cost) so union workers get more but the country is poorer to pay for them.

No magic money trees here. It's just marxism with a different disguise.
Posted by: Bright Pebbles || 02/02/2012 12:10 Comments || Top||

#4  Jim, no one I know of is opposed to people doing well. Particularly when it's us.

I think most people recognize intuitively the teaching of economics: things that can't go on forever, won't.

It's great if you can have an automobile assembly line job that pays $75 an hour in wages and benefits. But if the industry and economy can't support that, at some point the industry crashes and you lose your job. When government tries to prevent that by shifting the cost, the rest of us lose, and in the end the problem is worse (ask the Greeks for details).

Unions have their place. In the private sector there is a corrective to excess union power, that being the power of the business to close the business and move. So there is a balance, and in the main business and labor eventually learn to get along within limits (yes, there are always assholes who test things).

Where's the balance in public union power, particularly when the unions use their power to have their bosses elected (e.g., the Democrats)? The whole reason the public sector is out of control today is that the unions and Democrats created an alliance that disrupted the natural balance of power.

What Indiana is doing is ensuring that balance returns. We won't be competing with the Vietnamese because of this; indeed we may keep some private sector jobs home. But more importantly, we'll restore the balance of power in the public sector, a balance that is urgently needed.

This country simply must get public sector unions under control, or we're headed for very, very bad times.
Posted by: Steve White || 02/02/2012 12:45 Comments || Top||

#5  This wasn't just about public workers, it was about all workers. And Indiana will be using it to lure union auto jobs from Michigan into non-union northern Indiana.

Jim is correct. In our global village under-educated, unskilled factory workers in the US will be competing for jobs with Vietnamese under-educated, unskilled factory workers. It's called a free market. And the American managers and officers will be competing with Vietnamese managers and officers.

We have a choice. As a result of the competition, jobs can go to Vietnam, jobs can go to the US, or we can stop trading with Vietnam. Which do you prefer?

And if unions have a place, it's on the ash heap of history. Cartels of any type act to restrain trade and reduce freedom. They eventually loose their power, but they are inefficient as long as they prevail.

Good for Indiana. Tough for Michigan, Illinois and Ohio, until they change their laws, as they will eventually have to.

Daniels for President.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble || 02/02/2012 13:11 Comments || Top||

#6  Stop trade with other countries Juche for America!

/sarc
Posted by: Bright Pebbles || 02/02/2012 13:17 Comments || Top||

#7  --- Ohio had passed a law banning strikes by its public unions a bit over a year ago. This, along with other reforms, was repealed in a referendum this spring. Unions overwhelmed the airwaves with an expensive media campaign. My next door neighbor told me she dislikes the taxes she has to pay and doesn't want the police unions to be able to strike, but she voted to repeal anyway.
--- She seemed blissfully ignorant of the economic teaching that things that can't go on forever, won't. However, that teaching is still true, and is still chewing its way through the US and other economies. Other cartels which are strangling the economy have been almost untouched.
Posted by: Anguper Hupomosing9418 || 02/02/2012 13:37 Comments || Top||

#8  Shove your politically charged useless unions up your fourth point of contact jim. You have bankrupted enough of the country you leech.
Posted by: newc || 02/02/2012 14:09 Comments || Top||

#9  Well, bigjim-CA. Eventually people will start building authomated factories which employ a very few, very skilled, workers.
Posted by: g(r)omgoru || 02/02/2012 14:13 Comments || Top||

#10  Some time ago someone suggested the automakers spin off their manufacturing, thus forcing/allowing the manufacturing plants to compete for product to build and allowing the automakers to avoid being held hostage by the unions. Instead we got a government buyout.

I still don't see a flaw in the plan.
Posted by: rjschwarz || 02/02/2012 14:49 Comments || Top||

#11  rjschwarz, not a bad idea. Have independent plants bid to make different brands of cars. That WOULD bring costs down.
Posted by: DarthVader || 02/02/2012 15:02 Comments || Top||

#12  Good idea, but I think Boeing would tell you the NLRB would have your ass.

I heard a rally cry for union support which really struck me, "If you like minimum wage, thank a union". There were others, like having the weekend off and tasty burgers and butterfly kisses and such.

What struck me, is the Federal Government now mandates all and even more benefits than Unions, basically federalized union benefits with minimum wage, OSHA, unfair firing laws, unemployment, retirement, it goes on.

It should make the entire USA right to work, and union dues optional for all US workers. If the unions are doing their stuff people will donate.
Posted by: swksvolFF || 02/02/2012 15:30 Comments || Top||

#13  Toyota has a massive plant near Princeton, Indiana that employs thousands, with thousands more in local support industries. Indiana Governance is taking care of Hoosiers. That's the way it's supposed to be.
Posted by: Besoeker || 02/02/2012 15:32 Comments || Top||

#14  We're in a race to the bottom, and I don't really think we realize what the prize is.
Maybe, at some point, we decide we really don't want some of those jobs if they don't pay enough to sustain a worker's life and health.

You can sit at the bar and go broke, why work yourself broke? Personally I don't have a dog in this fight, but Germany has found a way to have a raging economy with manufacturing as a cornerstone. Their labor force, coincidentally, is highly unionized, compensated much more generously, and just as productive as ours.
So I'm not sure you'll see any benefit to busting unions if the underlying product being produced is not needed or wanted. Or if the difference just goes in some CEO's pocket.
Posted by: bigjim-CA || 02/02/2012 16:07 Comments || Top||

#15  Bigjim-CA, it's simple. You either compete with those Vietnamese workers or they take your job.

With a little inspiration from JM, I offer the following formula:

Unions + minimum wage laws = government telling American workers they cannot compete in the global labor market + inflation + food stamp presidents.

Class dismissed.
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 || 02/02/2012 16:19 Comments || Top||

#16  Yeah, and just wait til the Vietnamese start making cars. Of course, the Koreans already are. How long until we start importing cars from China?
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 || 02/02/2012 16:39 Comments || Top||

#17  The trick of a Union-buisness relationship is it needs to be a symbiotic one. Several unions, like the UPS driver one, understand this and work to make the workers as productive and compensated as possible while keeping the business healthy and competitive. One wins, the other wins.

The big unions, like the auto unions have gone into a Parasitic symbioses relationship. They do everything they can to suck all they can out of the host business, regardless if it makes the host ill and unable to compete.

IMHO, unions were necessary back through 1900-1945. They helped provide 40 hour weeks, overtime, workman's comp, PTO, etc. Things that are now standard and federal law. With most of their goals met, like all movements (see civil rights movement) they became a solution in search of a problem. With a multi-million dollar payroll and clout, they need to keep the gravy flowing and they are killing our nation's ability to compete.

You want to be part of a union, fine. Join. Just don't force us to do it as that creates a power monopoly that only leads to stagnation and obsolescence.
Posted by: DarthVader || 02/02/2012 16:57 Comments || Top||

#18  Hope I'm not making it up, so don't quote me, but I thought I heard about a car made overseas, shipped to the USA, then assembled. Like I said, don't quote me on that.

I have some great cutlery from Germany, Switzerland, even here in USA. Have lasted years, still have their original edges etc. Can opener from China, dust in like three washes, was starting to rust just by the can juice splashing.

Person has only $5. That person can buy a nice can opener from Germany, or pick up the chinese one plus three cans of beans.

Problem is, I have bought some chinese stuff where if I didn't know, would have guessed USA or Germany, Japan, top tier. They are getting better.

I simply do not believe people should be forced to join a union, and/or forced to pay a membership fee. If the union is worthwhile, it should sell itself.

Public sector, like police or fire, it undermines peoples' confidence in services paid for and promised if they fuss and strike according to who or who is not in office. It isn't necessarily the individual cop or firefighter either and they should have that choice.
Posted by: swksvolFF || 02/02/2012 17:09 Comments || Top||

#19  It's up to them to make their cost/benefit analysis look apealing, nobody can save them from that. The problem is as workers rights and working conditions get worse we will see all sorts of increased social and budgetary problems. Paying the workforce less only benefits a very, VERY small group of people. Who don't really need the extra cash that badly to pay their rent or buy medicine. They just want reap even more grotesque corporate profits than they did last year.
Posted by: bigjim-CA || 02/02/2012 17:15 Comments || Top||

#20  Personally I don't have a dog in this fight, but Germany has found a way to have a raging economy with manufacturing as a cornerstone.

Given that German banks were among the big beneficiaries of the TARP, maybe they haven't figured out how NOT to drive capital out of their own country.

The reality is that non-union Honda, Toyota, Nissen, etc plants in America are providing their workers a job and wages that the UAW plants can't anymore undermines your argument that workers are only competing against the lowest possible denominator overseas.
Posted by: Procopius2k || 02/02/2012 17:16 Comments || Top||

#21  So what's the difference between a union, higher paying VW plant in Germany and a union GM plant in Michigan?
Why can one make money and the other cant? I just read that german autoworkers make more in wages and benefits than their american counterparts. So the has to be another dimension to all this besides wages. There has to be. But corporations claim that that is the whole story.
Posted by: bigjim-CA || 02/02/2012 17:36 Comments || Top||

#22  Because there's no Deutschmark, just the Euro which because of their friends in the sunny south permits the Germans to be competitive internationally. If the Germans uncouple from the Euro the DMark will soar making exports very uncompetitive.
Posted by: Procopius2k || 02/02/2012 18:21 Comments || Top||

#23  Germany? When I lived there fifteen years ago, only 1/3rd of women ever held a paying job in their entire lives, and kids stayed at university on average a full decade, because unemployment hovered close to 10% even in a strong economy. I understand that currently German unemployment numbers have gone down, but I suspect that may be at least partially connected to the number that have moved into retirement. Also the number of German jobs outsourced to the Czech Republic and further east...and to the U.S.

*quick google search* Yes. See here. Key graph:

The unemployment rate in Germany was last reported at 6.6 percent in December of 2011. From 1991 until 2010, Germany's Unemployment Rate averaged 9.73 percent reaching an historical high of 12.10 percent in March of 2005 and a record low of 7.30 percent in December of 1991. The labour force is defined as the number of people employed plus the number unemployed but seeking work.
Posted by: trailing wife || 02/02/2012 18:24 Comments || Top||

#24  So what's the difference between a union, higher paying VW plant in Germany and a union GM plant in Michigan?

Pensions and retiree health care.
Posted by: Nimble Spemble || 02/02/2012 18:29 Comments || Top||

#25  Also, as I recall, German workers do not get private pensions like American workers do -- they get what the government gives them, and are grateful. Health insurgence is a mix of public and private plans -- private, expensive, and very good for top managers, the rich, and the privileged; public, cheap, and long waiting times for the rest. As expats for a large foreign company, we never had to wait more than three business days to get an appointment, while my German friends might wait six months.
Posted by: trailing wife || 02/02/2012 18:31 Comments || Top||

#26  IMHO German cars are underpowered and overpriced. I can buy two Chevrolets for the price of one Mercedes or BMW. BMWs are cool. OK, I get it. But I can't afford $100,000 for a car and I don't need to go that fast. In fact, if I go that fast the police are gonna pull me over. And, once again IMHO, my old Pontiac Gran Prix is more comfortable than a BMW. Compare an Audi A4 to a Lexus ES350. You get a lot more bang for your buck if you buy the Lexus. The sales guys will tell you about that mythical "German engineering", whatever that means. Balderdash. The Japanese are just as good. And, yet again IMHO, it's only a matter of time before the Koreans, Chinese and Indians get up to speed. Wouldn't want to be a German auto worker then.
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 || 02/02/2012 18:46 Comments || Top||

#27  In germany the unions don't go on strike just to make a point, or to prepare the battlefield for the contract negotiations of an allied union that are coming up. I don't believe the german workers would put up with strikes they didn't believe in. I don't believe german managers would take giant bonuses while laying off workers.

In the US there is much more hostility between management and the unions.
Posted by: rjschwarz || 02/02/2012 18:48 Comments || Top||

#28  Jim has a point, but there's one other point missing: unionized American workers no longer have much of a work ethic, or at least one that even remotely compares with German workers' discipline and conscientiousness. Screw around in Detroit, and the UAW will defend you tooth and nail. Pull that shi'ite in Bayern, and you're on your own. German unions do not tolerate slack and goofing because the whole country has an ethos of solidarity and individual responsibility that we've lost.

As to the race-to-the-bottom argument, there's no point trying to compete in low-end manufacturing of anything. Give it up. The path forward for this country is in progressively higher and higher value-added specialty manufacturing. Those businesses are doing very well and are desperate to hire skilled workers.

The big problem for all of us is that this country no longer has a serious vocational ed system that will produce highly-trained workers who can fill those specialized manufacturing jobs.

We've got this foolish notion, oddly reminiscent of the "everyone-should-own-a-home" idiocy of the last decade, that every kid should go to college. Every kid should learn a TRADE, a set of marketable skills, and most of those trades can and should be taught at the secondary level.
Posted by: lex || 02/02/2012 22:32 Comments || Top||


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