KANDAHAR: At least nine Sunni Muslims have been killed and six wounded by followers of the Shia Hazaras in Uruzgan, the regionâs governor said on Thursday. Jan Mohammad Khan said the victims were ambushed while travelling on Wednesday afternoon through a pass to the north of Terin Kot, the capital of Uruzgan. Khan accused the intelligence network of Iran for masterminding the attack.
Were they bumped off because they were Sunnis, or because they were Bad Guys?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/12/2003 07:53 pm ||
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Adel al-Jubeir, an advisor to Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah, defended his country's policy of giving money to families of suicide bombers. "We give money to families in need... Are some of those families, families who have had a suicide bomber? Yes. But do we give the money because their son or daughter was a suicide bomber? No. Is that money an incentive for them to commit acts of terrorism? No." Al-Jubeir condemned terrorism, but refused to condemn the terrorist organization Hamas.
Guess it all depends on your definition of terrorism, doesn't it?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/12/2003 05:14 pm ||
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#1
That is about the most twisted pile of logic that I have heard today. Like Fred sez, these guys melons have some serious wiring code problems.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/12/2003 17:18 Comments ||
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#2
Atom Ant is a lying sack. Why he's not shaken and stirred every time he does an interview is amazing.
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 17:24 Comments ||
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Do you pay them for blowing your own citizens up? I seem to remember that happening recently. Or was that alk runners?
Yeah, things have really changed over there.
A fugitive Saudi dissident on Wednesday threatened the Saudi Arabian, and US governments that he would resort to terrorist attacks against them. According to Al Bawaba Internet website's Wednesday news, Abdullah Sultan al-Qahtani, in a communique issued on Wednesday morning seriously threatened the Saudi Arabian rulers, and the US political and military officials. "We have prepared ourselves to break your backs, and pull your nails, and your teeth, so that after kicking you (the Americans and the Saudi Dynasty) from the Arabian Peninsula wretchedly, we would lead a prosperous life in our motherland, according to the rules of Islam," reads the communique. Bitchy, ain't he?
Accusing the Saudi intelligence officials of arresting the prominent religious authorities and pious "Mujahid" women, the fugitive Saudi dissident has asked for the immediate release of all religious personalities and pious Muslim citizens, particularly those recently arrested in Holy Medina. How about, no?
Abdullah Sultan al-Qahtani has meanwhile warned Saudi officials in his communique that "If the innocent prisoners are not freed immediately, I and my combatant brethren, who have survived the deadly US bombardments in Turabura [Tora Bora] Heights of Afghanistan, will personally act forcefully to free them." Was every islamic nutcase in Afghanistan, or do they just want their followers to think so?
He has further emphasized, "My brethren and I were not intended to get engaged in aggressive combats with any regime, but the United States, but those who have been the accomplices of the Washington administration in its criminal deeds, too, should be held accountable for the aftermaths of their policies." Abdullah Sultan al-Qahtani is in the 19-man list, whose names and photographs were distributed publicly as "most wanted terrorists" responsible for recent attacks in Riyadh. And trying for number one on the Saudi's hit parade.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/12/2003 12:50 pm ||
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#1
Unfortunately, there are far too many nutcases in the Middle East that think exactly like this. They need to be rooted out and given a bath - preferably one in the deepest part of the Indian Ocean, with a hundred pounds of cement firmly anchored to their knees.
Whenever any religion espouses the use of force for conversion, and where the adherents follow such advice blindly, there are only two options: join, or kill them all. I will NOT become a Muslim.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
06/12/2003 13:35 Comments ||
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The old principle applies here: Speak softly and carry a big stick. Evidently, Abdullah Sultan al-Qahtani did not get the Iraq message. So he needs a personal message for him and his followers. You do not have to make any threats or statements. Just quietly do it, and then say, "Next?"
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/12/2003 13:45 Comments ||
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Tell Abdullah to take a number and stand in the line over there, right at the spot with the taped 'X' on the floor. Something will be with him shortly.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/12/2003 14:39 Comments ||
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"We have prepared ourselves to break your backs, and pull your nails, and your teeth, so that after kicking you (the Americans and the Saudi Dynasty) from the Arabian Peninsula wretchedly, we would lead a prosperous life in our motherland, according to the rules of Islam,"
Steve Den Beste had a post a while back with a chronological listing of belligerent quotes from Islamists who were going to kick our ass. First the Taliban, then Sadaam and his 'elite" forces, then there was one that some Iranian mullahs made recently.
Similar pathology here. Rant, seethe, threaten and then get ground to dust by a nation that knows how to fight.
#6
In Vietnam we had a program called Phoenix which specialized in taking out VC leadership via assasination. It was quite effective until the press got hold of it and then, of course, the powers that be dropped it. Too icky for the idealists.
Could it be time to dust off the paperwork and start hunting for Mullahs? Maybe this time we can call it New York.
#7
TU3031...Yeah, take a few of them out with the Barrett .50 XM-107. Performance as noted today at Kim's site:
"My spotter positively identified a target at 1,400 meters carrying an RPG on a water tower. I engaged the target. The top half of the torso fell forward out of the tower and the lower portion remained in the tower." -- 325th PIR Sniper
#8
The IRA has a couple of those .50s if I recall correctly.
The assasination policy should be given a re-evaluation I think. But it won't happen because then every US lawmaker will have to travel by M1A1 to their place of work. Unless of course Hamas succeeds in "murdering" Sharon, then the precedent will be set and all gloves are off.
Condemning yesterdayâs attack in Jerusalem in the strongest possible terms, British FM Jack Straw, speaking in a BBC interview earlier today, called for increased international efforts to cut off funds to Palestinian militant groups. He urged the EU to consider sanctions against those who fund terrorism. Straw also called upon the Arab nations to crack down on sponsorship of the Palestinian terrorist groups. Although he did not mention names, the US and Britain are said to have been putting pressure on Iran and Syria lately to stop funding Arab terrorism.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/12/2003 05:18 pm ||
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What, he's calling for sanctions against the EU? That should be interesting ...
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/12/2003 20:14 Comments ||
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Not much info. available yet.
Police found a suspected explosive device on a plane waiting to take passengers on board at an airport in Italy. The device was found under a seat on an Alitalia plane that had flown in to Ancona from Rome and was scheduled to make a return trip. "There was an anonymous call that the police received. After that, all alarms went off," a fire department official at Ancona's Falconara airport said. Police removed the device and safely exploded it, the fire official said. No arrests had been made. The ANSA news agency said investigators said the device appeared to be a cigarette pack with electrical cords sticking out. The packet was found hidden in a life jacket under a seat, it said. Alitalia said it was awaiting the results of the police investigation.
ZAGREB - Croatia refused on Thursday to sign an agreement with the United States exempting U.S. citizens from prosecution by the new world war crimes court, saying it wanted a separate deal with Washington. The United States has piled pressure on Croatia to sign the deal, threatening to cut off $19 million in military aid unless Zagreb agrees to the accord by July 1. "Croatia said an open 'No' to the agreement as has been presented, but it also said 'Yes' to further dialogue," Deputy Foreign Minister Ivan Simonovic told state news agency Hina. Meanwhile, in a completely unrelated story, the State Department announced a $19 million grant to Bosnia, citing the sudden availability of funds.
He said Zagreb was hoping to settle the issue through separate bilateral agreements with Washington. Zagreb officials voiced hope in May that Washington might consider exempting Croatia, together with other former Yugoslav republics falling under the jurisdiction of the U.N. war crimes tribunal in The Hague, from signing the agreement. Croatia claims it would be unfair and immoral to refuse to hand over U.S. citizens, while surrendering its own war crimes suspects, many of whom are considered war heroes at home. Except that we prosecute our guys when they commit war crimes, and you don't.
Simonovic held talks on the issue on Thursday with a U.S. delegation headed by senior State Department negotiator Marisa Lino. Under the terms of the so-called American Servicemembers Protection Act, Washington has vowed to cut off its military equipment and training assistance to countries that do not sign the agreement by July 1. Their assistance to Croatia amounts to some $19 million, but Simonovic said he believed the aid was already budgeted for this year and would not be immediately suspended. U.S. officials were not available for immediate comment. Since they were busy with the Excel spreadsheet with the FY 2003 budget.
Washington, which fears that the new court will expose Americans to politically motivated prosecutions, has already signed non-surrender accords with 38 countries and is negotiating with others. NATO member countries and major U.S. non-NATO allies are not being asked to sign.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/12/2003 12:42 pm ||
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The Bush administration has promised to help Cyprus try to reopen negotiations on the basis of a U.N. plan to unite the Turkish-occupied north with the Greek Cypriot-controlled south. While the Cyprus government has reservations about several provisions of the plan sponsored by U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan, it wants talks that broke down in April revived. The foreign minister, George Iacovu, who held talks in Washington on Wednesday with Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of State Colin Powell, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, and congressional leaders, said he had asked the administration ``to show a high level of interest in putting the negotiations back on the table.'' Diplospeak for "the Turks want too much! Help us talk them down!"
The talks broke down when Turkish Cypriot leader Rauf Denktash rejected the Annan plan. But Iacovu said Turkey makes the decisions and should be pressured to permit negotiations to resume. ``I was satisfied with the responses I have received,'' Iacovu told reporters Thursday over breakfast in his hotel. He said Powell, who met with Annan Wednesday at the State Department, told him he would take up Cyprus with Annan again when they meet in Jordan later in the month on the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. "Kofi, I think we can get the Palestinian issue settled before lunch. How 'bout tackling Cyprus after the photo op?"
Annan, in a report after the breakdown, said Denktash ``bears prime responsibility'' for the collapse of the negotiations with Greek Cypriots. He praised the Greek Cypriot contribution to the talks. Meanwhile, the U.N. Security Council on Wednesday extended a peacekeeping mission in Cyprus for six months and added 34 police to deal with the increasing travel between the Greek and Turkish Cypriot sides of the divided island. Turkey invaded the island in 1974 after a coup by supporters of a union of Cyprus with Greece and set up a separate state in the north. It is recognized only by Turkey. So the UN wants to reward the coup-plotters and punish the Turks. Typical.
Iacovu said Turkish Cypriots were emigrating, and settlers brought in from Turkey now outnumber remaining Turkish Cypriots. He said there were 110,000 Turkish settlers and about 75,000 remaining Turkish Cypriots with incomes about one-fourth those of Greek Cypriots. Turkey maintains a force of 35,000 to 40,000 troops in the north. Annan's plan envisioned the reunification of Cyprus as a single state with Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot sections linked through a weak central government. Everything Kofi envisions is weak.
The secretary-general had been trying to get Greek and Turkish Cypriots to agree to the plan so that a united Cyprus could sign a treaty to join the European Union next May. Here's a radical idea: leave the two sides alone and let them work it out. If they can't, admit both to the EU.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/12/2003 12:15 pm ||
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"So the UN wants to reward the coup-plotters and punish the Turks."
Actually, the coup plotters rotted away in jail for the rest of their lives. It'd be difficult to reward them.
"If they can't, admit both to the EU."
One half's already admitted - but EU recognizes only the Republic of Cyprus as the legitimate government for the entire island, so reunification is the only possibility for the other half to join. Anything else would be rejected by the Republic of Cyprus and Greece both...
#2
Hi Aris! Thought I'd probably find you here. Sorry to say you get no argument from me on this topic, as I support the ROC position. By the by, as you may have gathered by now, I am NOT a nom-de-guerre for Raptor.
BRUSSELS - NATO defense ministers agreed Thursday to overhaul the military alliance, reducing command centers and creating more agile forces to shift the focus to the fight against terrorism and other unpredictable threats. The changes will ``profoundly reshape'' the 54-year-old alliance and enhance its capabilities, said NATO Secretary-General Lord Robertson, who has advocated the overhaul of an organization formed as a bulwark against the Soviet Union. ``This is a new NATO, a NATO transformed,'' Robertson said. Separately, Spain agreed to help Poland run a peacekeeping zone in central Iraq, contributing some 1,100 troops to a multinational force, Polish Defense Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski said. Good. Spanish are good allies and have a good army.
Soldiers from three Latin American nations will also join the force, as well as troops from Ukraine and other European nations, Szmajdzinski said. But no Ukrainian air transport, please!
And no Uruguayan peacekeepers...
Both Spain and Poland supported the U.S.-led war to oust Saddam Hussein. The operation is considered a major test for Poland, which only joined NATO in 1999 and has struggled to modernize its armed forces. NATO also has agreed to assume peacekeeping duties in the Afghan capital, Kabul, in August.
The Poles are stepping right up on the international stage...
The alliance's worldwide operational command will remain at its European headquarters in southern Belgium under U.S. Marine Gen. James L. Jones, the former commandant of the Marine Corps. Its Atlantic command, at Norfolk, Va., will become a ``transformation headquarters'' overseeing the military modernization led by U.S. Adm. Edmund P. Giambastiani, who also heads the U.S. Joint Forces Command. The number of NATO regional and sub-regional command posts will be cut from 20 to 11 to change a grid of commands dating back to the Cold War. The allies also agreed that first elements of an elite rapid response force should be up and running by October. As opposed to the EU "rapid" reaction force, this one will actually work, since it will be organized by us and the UK.
Robertson and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld urged the allies to make more progress in other areas where they have been slow to improve such as developing surveillance planes, secure communications and protection from biochemical and nuclear attacks. The intention is to give teeth to a NATO doctrine developed after the Sept. 11 terror attacks under which the alliance agreed to act against threats to the security of the 19 allies. ``There are no more traditional wars. We have to ... develop a concept to fight terrorism,'' German Defense Minister Peter Struck said. Several members of the alliance also planned to sign accords Thursday agreeing to lease cargo ships and transport planes to increase their ability to participate in NATO missions. No more ferry boats for the French!
Robertson said he would push the Europeans to make more progress in other areas where they have been slow to improve capabilities, notably ground surveillance planes, secure communications and protection from biochemical and nuclear attacks. ``There will be a pretty blunt message for the Europeans to do more,'' he said in an interview with The Associated Press before the meeting. ``You have to be more brutal if you want to get results.'' Ouch!
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/12/2003 12:09 pm ||
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#1
They could probably buy a bunch of the big Antonov's from the Russkies...
#2
Better add air transport capability to the list. As successful as Airbus is in the civil market I find it incredible that the EU can't figure out how to build something to rival a C-130 or C-17. Unless the big problem is what country gets the jobs building them. 'Cause if it ain't France they ain't gonna get built. Hell the Brits all ready have a very good small high wing jet commercial aircraft in the BAE-146(?)
Posted by: Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire ||
06/12/2003 12:51 Comments ||
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The Spanish army is, as far as I know, in rather poor shape. It seriously lacks modern equipment.
Hunger strike of LJ and SSP enters sixth day: 58 activists of the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LJ) and Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP) continued their hunger strike for the sixth day on Thursday in protest against the ruthless attitude of jail staff in breach of prison rules. The prisoners are demanding newspapers, and removal of handcuffs during exercise, the right to meet their relatives, and to be kept in barracks with other prisoners instead of in death row cells. âA medical camp has been set up at the new central jail to save their lives, as the condition of 20 prisoners is serious. These prisoners were involved in terrorist activities,â Mehmood Akbar Chaddar said. Jail authorities claimed that 20 prisoners who belonged to the SSP and the LJ ended their hunger strike when their condition deteriorated. However, SSP sources denied these claims and stated that all 58 activists were still on hunger strike. Mr Chaddar said, âI am optimistic that the dispute between the prisoners and the jail authorities will be resolved today following the intervention of higher authoritiesâ. The condition of 14 out of the 58 people on hunger strike deteriorated since Sunday and they were shifted to jail hospital. Earlier the jail authorities had concealed the news of the hunger strike for two days. When contacted the Jail Superintendent Muhammad Akbar Khan Chaddar said the protesterâs demands were not genuine. As terrorists, he argued, they are not entitled to normal prison conditions and cannot be kept with other prisoners.
I like pie. Usually, what I like best is blueberry pie, except that I like blackberry pie better, only usually I can't find it. I like it with a nice big scoop of vanilla ice cream, right next to it — but don't heat the pie. It should be cool to be perfect. A nice cup of strong coffee to help it down, and then follow up with a nice little glass of anisette. Mmmm. Tasty. Sure glad I'm not an Islamist Krazed Killer. Since I'm not, maybe I'll have two helpings...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/12/2003 08:18 pm ||
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MULTAN: Activists of Shabab-e-Milli (SM), who were involved in defacing billboards depicting women, had their bail applications rejected by District and Sessions Judge Chaudhry Anwar Ali here on Thursday. Mr Ali said the accused were involved in anti-state activities and were charged under Section 16 of the maintenance of public order (MPO) act, which is a non-bailable offence.
I think that means the fix isn't quite in yet...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/12/2003 08:12 pm ||
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"Him? I can't accept him! He ain't hardly holy at all! How many people's he killed? Lately, I mean."
A JUP (N) leader, requesting anonymity, told the newspaper, that some senior Brelvi clerics had formed a committee in February in order to unite the various JUP groups. Maulanas Sarferaz Naeemi and Abdul Qyume Hazarvi were the committee heads. The committee has listened to viewpoints of all groups and observed that differences within the different groups are based on personality clashes and asked all leaders to forget their differences and reunite.
"Yar! We be holy men! We be united!... Keep yer hands away from them guns, Noorani, 'r we'll disunite yez!"
Currently, the JUP is split into four major groups: Maulana Sha Ahmad Nooraniâ faction (which is considered the major group), the Sahabzada Fazil Karim faction (which enjoys support in Punjab and is considered the second major group), the JUP (Niazi) lead by Sahabzada Anisul Hassnian and the JUP (Nifaz-e-Shariaht) headed by Engineer Saleem Ullah Khan are the two minor groups. A JUP group has also changed its name to the âNizam-e-Mustafa Partyâ being part of the National Alliance. Sources claimed that Sahabzada Fazil Karim had demanded the secretary general office of the united party but Maulana Shah Ahmad Noorani wanted as vice-president. Mr Karim refused to accept this proposal and attempts to unite the JUP have failed. He was said to have contacted Pir Syed Mazhar Saeed Kazmi, the Nizam-e-Mustafa Party (NMP) patronage, and the Jamaat-e-Ahle Sonnet (JAS) for a merger. According to Muhammad Nawaz Khural, the JAS secretary of information, negotiations between the NMP and the JUP (Fazil) are continuing and both groups could unite. But Mr Naeemi has denied failure.
In case anyone's forgotten â JUP's a signatory of Binny's declaration of war against us. Since it's a member organization of the "World Islamic Front," along with Egyptian Islamic Jihad and Harkat ul-Mujaheddin, I consider the party and all its members in the same category as al-Qaeda.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/12/2003 08:07 pm ||
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LAHORE: Jamaat ad Dawaa Head Professor Hafiz Saeed on Thursday said that rulers were doing their utmost to promote obscenity in the nation. Addressing a training workshop of the workers, he said rulers were arrogantly promoting secularism as part of a conspiracy against Islam.
Ahah! I knew it! It's a deep-laid conspiracy! And how do we counter deep-laid conspiracies?
âWe can meet this challenge only to follow Islamic teaching and adopting the way of jihad,â he added. The other leaders of the JD Hafiz Saif Ullah Mansoor and Muhammad Amran also spoke on the occasion.
And I'll betcha they came to the very same conclusion...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/12/2003 07:57 pm ||
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KARACHI: An activist of the banned Sipah-e-Sahaba was shot dead by terrorists on a motorcycle, but another religious leader survived a similar attack unscathed, in what looks like sectarian incidents. The activist, Syed Saadat Ali, 29, was shot on Thursday near his home in New Karachi, police said. The three terrorists in the other incident, after midnight Wednesday, not only failed because of darkness but police guards posted outside the religious leaderâs home caught the attackers after a chase.
Whoops! When you're gonna do murder, don't forget to wear your Keds if you don't have a getaway car handy...
In another incident a retired civil engineer, Syed Mohabbat Naqvi, from the Shia community was gunned down in Nazimabad when he was returning home after buying biscuits for his dog, police said.
"Yar! We be devout Muslims! Kill all, ummm... them guys!"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/12/2003 07:51 pm ||
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The sacred Vase of Warka - one of the most valuable artifacts of the Iraqi National Museum collection, feared lost forever - was returned unceremoniously Thursday in the trunk of a car. The sacred Vase of Warka, sounds like something from a really bad movie.
The 5,000-year-old white limestone vase, the world's oldest carved-stone ritual vessel, was handed over with other looted items, U.S.-led coalition forces said in a statement. Three men gave the pieces to security staff at the central Baghdad museum, a gesture that could reassure archaeologists worried about Iraq's ancient treasures. The Vase of Warka is one of 47 main exhibition items that coalition officials said last week was still missing. The hell with the mass graves of children buried alive, we got the Vase of Warka back!
Posted by: Steve ||
06/12/2003 03:14 pm ||
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#1
Scoff all you want, Steve, but a drink from the Vase of Warka gives you +3 on all saving throws for 12 combat rounds.
Posted by: Dar ||
06/12/2003 15:45 Comments ||
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Dar, what's really sad is that I understand your post.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/12/2003 15:51 Comments ||
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What's really sad is that all this is pointless. The value of the artifacts is in the studying and documentation of them. Once that's accomplished, the things themselves are just old pots.
#4
Dar I got your post as well and I haven't played in 10 YEARS. As far as the pot: BFD. It will not feed anyone, heal anybody, or bring about world peace. Priceless, maybe...Useful, Not.
U.S. jets bombed what the military called ''a terrorist training camp'' in central Iraq on Thursday, while ground forces pressed forward with a massive sweep north of Baghdad aimed at finding militants organizing attacks on occupation forces. U.S. planes attacked the site 95 miles north of Baghdad at about 1:45 a.m., U.S. Central Command said. A firefight then broke out, and one coalition soldier was slightly injured. It did specify the location of the camp, or say if there were Iraqi casualties.
Meanwhile, a combined sweep, dubbed ''Operation Peninsula Strike,'' continued for a third day, sending thousands of American troops through an area near the Tigris River town of Duluiyah, 45 miles north of Baghdad, U.S. Central Command spokesman Lt. Ryan Fitzgerald said. Ground troops were backed up by fighter jets, attack helicopters and unmanned aerial drones. About 400 people were detained. Fitzgerald said he had no information on the capture of wanted Baathists from the list of top 55 fugitives, which includes Saddam Hussein and his two sons. He said interrogators armed with intelligence on particular suspects were still questioning those captured. Prisoners deemed not hostile will be released. Interrogators are ''working with information that has directed the finger toward these suspects,'' Fitzgerald said. ''If we believe they're dangerous and will cause problems for the Iraqi people or coalition forces, we'll keep them for further information.'' No Americans have been killed in the operation, Fitzgerald said. He could not confirm reports of deaths among the Iraqis.
The region north and west of Baghdad is part of the so-called Sunni Triangle, the heartland of support for Saddam's now banned Baath Party. In Habaniyah, 40 miles west of Baghdad, a top U.S. commander said his men had made significant progress in restoring security. ''There are three elements we are having to deal with: first, armed bandits; second, former Baath Party officials are paying people to attack us; and then the Fedayeen,'' said Maj. Gen. Buford Blount III, commander of the 3rd Infantry Division. The Fedayeen were a paramilitary force set up by Saddam's regime. U.S. intelligence has made progress in figuring out which groups are responsible for which attacks and U.S. troops are working to dismantle them, Blount said.
The leader of an Iraqi exile group opposed to Saddam's regime said in New York on Tuesday that the ousted leader was seen north of Baghdad as recently as three weeks ago. Ahmed Chalabi, head of the Iraqi National Congress, also claimed Saddam was paying a bounty for every American soldier killed, using $1.3 billion in cash stolen from the Central Bank on March 18. In Washington, Pentagon officials said Tuesday they had no information that Saddam was alive or offering bounties for killing U.S. troops. However, anecdotal evidence such as large amounts of cash seized during arrests of militants suggests that someone is paying them, said Sgt. Brian Thomas, a U.S. Army spokesman in Baghdad. Fighters who have attacked U.S. forces have used effective guerrilla tactics and coordinated their raids with signaling devices, including flares.
Duluiyah, largely untouched during the war, is said to be a likely place of refuge for Saddam loyalists. In the first stage of the raids, soldiers moved into attack and reconnaissance positions while seeking help from local police, Central Command said. The troops then began air, land and river raids to block escape routes. By Wednesday, 397 suspects were in custody near the town of Balad, 37 miles north of Baghdad, and a large number of arms and ammunition had been seized, the U.S. military said. A curfew was imposed from 10 p.m. to 4 a.m.
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 09:21 am ||
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F-16 downed near Baghdad, no word on reason. Pilot treated for minor injuries from ejection. Here
A Coalition raid was conducted 150 kilometers Northwest of Baghdad Wednesday as part of the continued effort to eradicate Ba' ath Party loyalists, paramilitary groups and other subversive elements.
The assault on the terrorist training camp began at approximately 1:45 a.m. (Baghdad time) with a coordinated air strike. A direct firefight ensued with ground forces early this morning. Ground forces included members of the 101st Airborne Division.
One Coalition soldier received minor wounds.
Any information or intelligence gathered at the site of the raid by specially trained soldiers would assist coalition forces in providing a safe and secure environment for the Iraqi people.
Task Force "Ironhorse" Continues Operation Peninsula Strike
A joint, combined arms task force led by the 4th Infantry Division began Operation Peninsula Strike Monday by conducting a series of raids to eradicate Ba'ath Party loyalists, paramilitary groups and other subversive elements located on a peninsula along the Tigris River, Northeast of Balad, Iraq.
Fifty-nine of the 397 detainees have been released because of age (young or elderly) or were of no intelligence value.
Any information or intelligence gathered at the site of the raid by specially trained soldiers would assist coalition forces in providing a safe and secure environment for the Iraqi people.
F-16 downed near Baghdad, no word on reason. Pilot treated for minor injuries from ejection. Here
A Coalition raid was conducted 150 kilometers Northwest of Baghdad Wednesday as part of the continued effort to eradicate Ba' ath Party loyalists, paramilitary groups and other subversive elements.
The assault on the terrorist training camp began at approximately 1:45 a.m. (Baghdad time) with a coordinated air strike. A direct firefight ensued with ground forces early this morning. Ground forces included members of the 101st Airborne Division.
One Coalition soldier received minor wounds.
Any information or intelligence gathered at the site of the raid by specially trained soldiers would assist coalition forces in providing a safe and secure environment for the Iraqi people.
Task Force "Ironhorse" Continues Operation Peninsula Strike
A joint, combined arms task force led by the 4th Infantry Division began Operation Peninsula Strike Monday by conducting a series of raids to eradicate Ba'ath Party loyalists, paramilitary groups and other subversive elements located on a peninsula along the Tigris River, Northeast of Balad, Iraq.
Fifty-nine of the 397 detainees have been released because of age (young or elderly) or were of no intelligence value.
Any information or intelligence gathered at the site of the raid by specially trained soldiers would assist coalition forces in providing a safe and secure environment for the Iraqi people.
EFL
Thai police claim captured members of a local Jemaah Islamiah terrorist cell planned to attack areas of Bangkok popular with young Australians and other western backpackers in a violent reprise of last year's Bali bombing. The alleged targets included the Khao San Road district, the Soi Nana western nightclub area and shopping centres along Sukhumvit Road, as well as famous Bangkok tourist sites. The standard target list
Thai officials said documents and maps seized from the homes of three JI suspects in the southern province of Narathiwat detailed plans to bomb the tourist sites and five western diplomatic missions in the capital, including the Australian Embassy. The three suspects have been linked by Thai authorities to Arifin bin Ali, the alleged ringleader of an earlier JI plot to bomb western embassies in Singapore and a scheme to hijack an airliner and crash it into Singapore's Changi Airport. Bin Ali was arrested in Bangkok on May 16 and quietly repatriated to Singapore the next day.
The three Thais were arrested on Tuesday just hours before the Prime Minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, pledged during a meeting in Washington with US President George Bush to introduce tougher anti-terrorism laws. Thai Central Investigation Bureau commissioner Chumphon Manmai said Maisuri Haji Abdulloh, the owner of an Islamic school in Narathiwat, and his son, Muyahi Haji Doloh, had confessed to being members of JI and admitted meeting bin Ali several times at the school last October to plan the Bangkok attacks. Lieutenant-General Chumphon said the third man arrested on Tuesday, a local doctor and pharmacy owner, Waemahadi Wae-dao, had denied being a member of JI but had confessed to producing fake passports for use by the others. He said they had drawn up detailed plans to use car bombs to attack the five embassies and the Bangkok tourist areas. Trying for another Bali, glad they bagged them. Keep looking, there will be more. There's too much sinning going on in Bangkok for them to overlook.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/12/2003 01:38 pm ||
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All my old haunts were on the target list... they're certainly soft targets and I knew it was only a matter of time before they fell into the crosshairs. Congrats to Bangkok's finest for foiling the plans. Hope they stay on the case.
Thailand is the land of smiles and that's got to just drive the Islamists absolutely nuts. It seems there's nothing so un-Islamic as having a good time.
Smiling bomber Amrozi was inspired to launch an attack on Bali after his former Australian boss revealed the tourist island was a haven for sinful behaviour by westerners. Yesterday, for the first time, Amrozi explained his motivation for helping kill 202 people in Kuta, saying that he and his group "hate Bule", or westerners. Giving evidence in his own defence, Amrozi told how his Australian boss at a Malaysian construction company where he worked in the early 1990s had told him that Bali was an easy target for westerners wanting to drink and take drugs and that westerners there were out of control. Either his boss was a prude as well, or he was bragging about his last vacation.
His hatred had germinated and cemented his belief that violence was the best panacea. Religion of Peace(TM) at work.
At the conclusion of his three-hour stint in the witness box, Amrozi asked Chief Judge I Made Karna for permission to address the court. "I know although I will be punished I want all the community, Indonesia and Bali especially and all over the world to hear what I have in my heart," Amrozi declared. He then embarked on a social critique of the world, blaming TV, the internet and bars for waning belief in all religions, noting that in Australia churches are now empty. And he justified bombing Bali by saying that while it had caused material devastation, it was for the island's long-term moral good. Falling morals were a far more serious ailment than material damage. "If I don't commit the bombs, what will Bali be like in five or 10 years â the same as Singapore and Malaysia, that I have visited. They are [failing] because they don't hold tightly to their religion," Amrozi said. "I mean, who wants to live in a city with electricity, running water and clean streets?"
Amrozi dealt his own defence case a major blow by his evidence that he knew the chemicals he bought and sent to Bali were to be used for a bomb and that he knew how to make explosives. His lawyers just want to get this asshole off their hands and hope no one remembers they were on his defense team.
And when asked who was the planner of the Bali bombing, he replied: "All of us." Condemning himself from his own mouth, Amrozi also confessed to helping make a bomb used in an August 2000 attack on the Philippines ambassador in Jakarta, which left the diplomat injured and one person dead. Asked if he felt any regret about the October 12 attack, the answer was an adamant "no". The only sorrow he felt was for the Indonesian victims. Even if the court wanted to let him off, I don't think they can now.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/12/2003 01:13 pm ||
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YANGON, Myanmar - Myanmar's military government on Thursday ignored international criticism of its detention of pro-democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi and instead blamed her opposition party for the nation's political deadlock. "Damn those freedom lovers! They've complicated everthing!"
World leaders have pressed the junta to release the Nobel Peace laureate, whisked away nearly two weeks ago after a clash between her supporters and a pro-government mob in northern Myanmar. At least four people were killed. The United Nations and many world leaders have urged the government to release Suu Kyi immediately, and the U.S. Senate on Wednesday overwhelmingly approved economic penalties against Myanmar, also known as Burma. Also Wednesday, President Bush joined Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra in calling for ``an immediate substantive political dialogue'' in Myanmar. The junta said it ``fully appreciates the suggestion'' from the two leaders and shares their view that a democratic and prosperous Myanmar is important to the stability of Southeast Asia. "Not that you'll see either while we're in charge!"
``That's why the government's two main goals have been the transition to a market economy, and the transition to multiparty democracy,'' the government said in a statement. "Hang on, this transition is going to take a while about thirty years or so.
It made no reference to Suu Kyi's detention since May 30 and the breakdown in its 2 year-old U.N.-sponsored reconciliation dialogue with the Nobel laureate. Instead, the junta criticized Suu Kyi's party for its 1995 withdrawal from a national convention to draft a constitution that democracy activists labeled a sham because most delegates were hand-picked by the military. ``The government is fully committed to the national reconciliation process with the people we like and to work together with all the political forces except for the ones we prefer to beat to death in its effort for national reconciliation and democratization under our terms,'' the junta said. Secretary of State Colin Powell said the process to restore democracy in the country clearly was failing, referring to the junta as the ``thugs who run the Burmese government.'' Colin didn't buy it.
``It it time for the United States to reassess its policy toward a military dictatorship that has repeatedly attacked democracy and jailed its heros,'' Powell said in an editorial Thursday in the Wall Street Journal. Wonder if the thugs understand how a JDAM can ruin one's day?
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/12/2003 12:20 pm ||
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Not really a WOT topic, but it so bizarre I thought I would post it. Fred, I posted most of the article since it is from NY Times and you have to register.
An Officer and a Gentleman? 50 Women Would Disagree
By N. R. KLEINFIELD
Col. Kassem Saleh of the United States Army was part of the force that fought the Taliban in Afghanistan, a task fraught with peril and often lonely. But apparently not that lonely.
The Army said yesterday that it was looking into allegations that he managed to line up dozens of prospective wives in the United States and Canada, women he met through Internet dating services. Virtually all of them posted advertisements on a site called tallpersonals.com, which specializes in men and women who are taller than average.
In recent days, as his chronic courting has come to light, some of the women have compiled a list of more than 50 women who were romanced by him. The women are heartbroken and intent on revenge. They have complained to the Army that they want to see him punished and even thrown in jail. It's unclear at this point if his behavior, if proven true, violates either criminal law or Army regulations. Oh I think it's pretty clear.
Col. Roger King, a spokesman for the Army's 18th Airborne Corps at Fort Bragg, N.C., where Colonel Saleh is now stationed, confirmed that the Army was investigating the matter and that Colonel Saleh had no comment on the allegations.
According to Colonel King, Colonel Saleh is a 29-year Army veteran who headed reconstruction and humanitarian efforts for the American-led military operation in Afghanistan until his tour ended last month. Last July, he led a preliminary investigation into airstrikes on a compound in southern Afghanistan where a late-night, pre-wedding party was going on, an attack that resulted in scores of civilians being killed or wounded.
Through his efforts, the duped women maintain, he managed to attract someone from states all around the country, including Alaska and Hawaii, and two from Canada. They range in age from 33 to 57. One encountered him as long ago as 1998, and others as recently as March. A few of them met him through either christiansingles.com or match.com, but tallpersonals.com was the most productive source. A few actually met him in person, some of the women said.
It's not that the colonel, who is 50 (though he gave various ages to the women) needs a wife. He is already married, the women said.
Robin Solod, 43, lives in Manhattan and is studying to become a real estate broker. For four years, she said she had worked the Internet dating scene, looking for a man who would tell her he would be by to pick her up on his motorcycle. Instead, she found men who owned bird collections or played golf.
Last November, she placed an ad on tallpersonals (she is six feet tall) and Colonel Saleh answered. "He responded with a beautifully romantic e-mail," she said. "He said I was beautiful, I sounded wonderful. He wanted to get to know me."
She said he told her he was fighting in Afghanistan. A week later, he called her by satellite phone, saying that he was in a safe house in Afghanistan. "He sounded like Don Johnson," she said. He wrote her daily e-mail messages and made phone calls to her that sounded dangerously exciting: "Baby, I love you . . . vehicle coming!"
"What proceeded were the most intoxicating love letters," she said. "He wrote better than Yeats. He wrote better than Shakespeare. He totally intoxicated you with his feelings: `Oh, baby, I want to tell you how much I miss you.' `I can't wait to get home to you.' "
In one e-mail message that she provided, he wrote: "You are my world, my life, my love and my universe. It's like my mother used to say to me in Arabic when I was a little boy. Yi Yunni (my eyes), Ya hyyetti (my love), Ya elbee (my heart), and Ya umree (my life). She used to sing it to me so I would fall asleep in our one-bedroom apartment in the slums of Brooklyn."
In fact, one of the other women said he mainly recycled letters he got from one woman and sent them on to the others. Or he would cut and paste letters he received from different women and create new ones that went out in bulk.
Ms. Solod said he told her he had been divorced 10 years ago and had not had a relationship since. Another woman said he referred to himself as the Warrior Monk, because he had not had sex in 10 years. He was waiting for the one perfect woman.
"There was this connection I felt," Ms. Solod said. "Unfortunately, there were 50 of us who felt it."
Two months ago, she said, he called her and proposed. She said he told her: "You're the most significant woman I've met. You're just like my mother."
Even though she had never seen him, she immediately agreed to marry him. "Crazy, right?" she said, recalling the moment.
She read the MSNBC dispatch at the end of April. "I almost had a heart attack," she said. "I e-mailed him within one second. He e-mailed me back within one second. He said, `Don't be silly, she's only a friend.' "
She managed to track down the woman in Washington and found out the truth. She said one woman e-mailed some of the others, saying she tried to commit suicide last week. "We're all trying to support her," Ms. Solod said.
Sarah Calder, 33, lives in the small town of Calais, Me., where she works as production manager of her family-owned newspaper, The Calais Advertiser. He responded to her ad on tallpersonals 15 months ago, and proposed to her last November.
Ms. Calder also said that she was captivated by the sweet talk in his e-mail messages and phone calls. Sometimes he wrote to her 10 or 12 times a day. Other times, she said, he told her she wouldn't be hearing from him for a week or so. He had to go into the hills and chase terrorists.
It is unclear how tall Colonel Saleh is. Women who have met him told some of the others that he was 5-foot-9 or 5-10, and possibly didn't even qualify for tallpersonals. In his mushy e-mail messages, he told the women he was 6-3 or 6-5.
Ms. Calder was expecting to meet him in person for the first time in the coming days, and she said he called her a few weeks ago and mentioned that he had shrunk to six feet tall because of repeated parachute jumps. "I was very wary," she said. "I know people can injure their backs. I found it strange."
She only learned about the colonel's antics on Saturday, after she came home from doing dog rescues and found 49 e-mail messages on her computer. "They were all pertaining to Kass," she said. "I cried and cried and was totally heartbroken."
She said some of the other women had received engagement rings and were actually planning weddings. She had been shopping for a wedding dress herself, but fortunately hadn't bought it yet.
Like others, Ms. Calder had sent him presents. She even had the local elementary school create handmade Valentine's Day cards to mail to his unit. He later sent photographs of the troops enjoying the cards.
"He's a sick individual that deserves jail time," she said.
She recognizes that it seems absurd to agree to marry someone who you had never met in person, to trust a relationship built on e-mail messages and trans-Atlantic phone calls. But she said you had to be there and feel the seductive pull of his flowery words.
"We are not a group of stupid, naïve women," she said. "We are bright, intellectual, professional women. I can't tell you how much he wooed us with his words. He made us feel like goddesses, fairy princesses, Cinderellas. We had all found our Superman, our knight in shining armor."
#2
- It's unclear at this point if his behavior, if proven true, violates either criminal law or Army regulations. -
Sec. 933. - Art. 133. Conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman
Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct
Sec. 934. - Art. 134. General article
Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special, or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court
- a commissioned officer holds his/her office as defined as one of special trust and confidence. That ain't the situation here.
#3
This may fall under art.134,but other than that I can't see how he committed any other crime.He didnt marry any of these women(no violation of monogamy laws).He didn't bilk these women out of thier life savings(no fraud).
This guy is a player of the first order,if this was a civilian court all those pick-up artists out there would be in deep dodo.
Sweet mother of God! The only thing that could screw this situation up worse would be blue helmetted human shields... ack!
NEW YORK - United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan, in a joint interview Thursday with Haaretz and Channel Two News, said that the Israelis and Palestinians are apparently unable to reach an agreement on their own, and that in the present circumstances he supports sending an "armed peace force as a buffer zone between the Israelis and the Palestinians."
I'll bet he's thinking in terms of Uruguayans...
Annan said that based on the present situation, a peacekeeping force should be stationed to help calm the situation and allow negotiations to continue. He said that he would give Prime Minister Ariel Sharon the "benefit of the doubt" regarding his commitment to ending the ccupation. "I expect that he will deliver and he will engage in the peace process," Annan said. STFU!
Annan added that he had recently spoken to U.S. President George W. Bush, who promised that he is still committed to the road map and its implementation, despite the difficulties. Meaning someone will have to call animal control out to remove the Hamas roadkill sometime soon
The secretary-general recognizes Israel's responsibility to protect its citizens, but he recommends that it take "proportionate measures," while acknowledging that "this is very difficult." He says that suicide bombers
are "reprehensible and cannot be defended," but notes that following Israel's reprisal operations, the terrorists come back and the cycle of violence continues. He also proposed that Israel ease restrictions on the Palestinian population in the territories and renew negotiations despite the violence. Sure, remove the cause/effect demonstration, and allow more boomers in...why is this asshat allowed a microphone?
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 06:49 pm ||
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"Proportionate measures"? OK Kofi, the Israeli gov't can clandestinely arm and support the most radical settler groups and send them out to murder any and every Muslim they can.
#2
The money going to the terrorist groups independent of the Palestinian Authority and Government must stop. That is something the nations of the world can do for peace. Kill them and cut them off, and a Palestinian leader is free to make a peace.
They're going to have to learn to live together someday. Today is a good day to start. No international guarantees. No peacekeepers. If they choose to keep killing each other, make it clear that we're going to sit back and watch, and not allow anyone else to interfere either. Peace is in the self interest of every person in Israel and Palestine. They just have to come to recognize it.
#3
"take "proportionate measures,"
Isn't that what Slick Willy did in response to the Embassy bombings?
The only thing these terrorists understand is brutal,overwhelming force.
IDF sources say that Amar Abu Chir was arrested in the Balata refugee camp near Shechem last night. Abu Chir was involved in attempts to carry out terrorist attacks against IDF forces in the Shechem area.
Wonder if he's Hamas or IJ?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/12/2003 05:37 pm ||
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In what seems to be a terrorist attack, an Israeli was killed near Kfar Ya'aved, near Jenin in the Shomron. His bullet-ridden body was discovered next to his car. According to first reports, he drove to the town, against the law of entering Palestinian territory, in order to buy coal. There have been shooting incidents perpetrated by terrorists in the area of Kfar Ya'aved in the past.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
06/12/2003 05:17 pm ||
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In Jenin, as a Jew, being bullet-riddled probably qualifies as "natural causes"
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 17:36 Comments ||
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Sharon was a courageous warrior in his prime, unlike these candy asses who cut off interviews in mid-sentence because they hear helicopters in the distance. I wonder who will die first?
Via LGF/translated from the French news
Guysen Israel News in France reports that a leader of Islamic Jihad, Salah Djardat, has been killed in Jenin by an Israeli sniper. Actually, apparently 2 IJ snuffies were iced, expanding the target list accordingly
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 04:42 pm ||
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JPost - Reg Req'd... Sounds like the gloves are off Hamas leaders in the Gaza Strip have gone into hiding for fear that Israel might try to kill them, Palestinian sources said Thursday. Ya think?
According to the sources, most of the leaders of Hamas, including prominent political figures like Mahmoud Zahar, Ismail Abu Shanab and Ismail Haniyeh, have "disappeared" from their homes following the botched assassination attempt against Abdel Aziz Rantissi on Tuesday. Hamas officials in Gaza City confirmed that the movement's top leaders were hiding, saying they have decided to take precautionary measures to protect themselves against possible Israeli retaliatory attacks. "Send the fodder out, I, uh, have to wash my hair..."
One of Hamas's senior spokesmen, Ismail Haniyeh, called off a live interview on al-Jazeera Thursday after he said he heard Israeli helicopters hovering over the area. "I now have to stop this interview because I can hear helicopters in the air," he told the Arab TV station before hanging up the phone. too bad that was just a cellphone.... guess they're onto that one Palestinian Authority officials in the Gaza Strip told The Jerusalem Post that the Hamas leaders are convinced that the government of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has taken a decision to wipe out the Hamas leadership. "They're very nervous," one official said. "Most of them have moved to safe houses and have minimized their contacts with the outside world. Only a very few people know where they are." that can't be conducive to carrying out more attacks, hmm?
Hamas on Thursday called on all its leaders and top members "to mobilize, be vigilant and take all the measures and precautions necessary." It also ordered "all military cells" to take immediate action and carry out more attacks against Israel. The movement urged foreigners to leave Israel and the West bank and Gaza Strip for their own safety. Hamas said in a statement that more attacks would follow. The bus bombing [in Jerusalem] "is the beginning of a new series of attacks and part of a bill the Zionists must pay," a Hamas statement said. "We call upon all foreigners to evacuate the Zionist entity immediately in order to protect their lives. We call on all military cells to act immediately and act like an earthquake to blow up the Zionist entity and tear it to pieces."
"Get right on it, will ya? I'm gonna step out for a pack of smokes, and I'll join you just as soon's I get back..."
Hamas said it would "teach the criminal enemy new painful lessons" and that the "Gaza Strip, if the enemy invades it, will be transformed into a graveyard for the invaders". Hamas called for unity among Palestinian ranks and urged "Arab and Muslim masses not to stay with their arms folded faced with the escalation of the Zionist aggression against their brothers in Palestine." "protect us o courageous lemmingsfoolshuman shields brothers! Damn! I think I just wet myself when I heard choppers overhead"
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 03:29 pm ||
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Hamas leaders go underground, threaten 'earthquake' in Israel
#2
"We call on all military cells to act immediately and act like an earthquake to blow up the Zionist entity and tear it to pieces."
Hamas said it would "teach the criminal enemy new painful lessons" and that the "Gaza Strip, if the enemy invades it, will be transformed into a graveyard for the invaders".
Invade? Who the hell wants to invade? Carpet-bomb, sure, but invade?
#4
Reading that headline, I can't avoid the mental picture of a bunch of Hamas guys with picks and shovels: "Keep digging, Mahmoud; the fault line must be down here somewhere!"
Posted by: Mike ||
06/12/2003 17:06 Comments ||
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That rumbling those Hamas boys are feeling ain't the earth moving, it's their bowels trembling.
Israeli army radio reports the army has been ordered to 'completely wipe out' the Palestinian Islamic militant group Hamas, a day after a suicide bomber killed 16 people on a Jerusalem bus.
Israeli helicopters killed nine Palestinians in strikes on militants after the bombing, leaving the US-backed peace "roadmap" in tatters.
Israeli Internal Security Minister Tzachi Hanegbi says no Hamas leader is safe.
The army order, which directs the military to use "whatever means necessary," was issued following a meeting of Defence Minister Shaul Mofaz with the army's top command shortly after the attack.
It is directed not only at the infrastructure of the organisation, but at its leadership, with everyone, "from the lowliest member to Sheikh Ahmad Yassin," a Hamas founder and its spiritual guide, as a legitimate target.
JPost - Reg Req'd - Stirrings on the northern border of Israel Hezbollah gunners fired several separate salvoes of anti-aircraft shells over Western and Upper Galilee on Thursday, with shrapnel falling in Kiryat Shmona and causing some damage but no casualties. Burning fragments also fell in the grounds of a kibbutz in the area and on open land nearby, sparking a brush fire that was quickly extinguished by firemen. Hizbullah said the firing was in response to violations of Lebanese airspace by IAF warplanes. Reports from Lebanon said there were extensive flights over the country on Thursday and that the planes caused sonic booms over the port city, Sidon, and the capital, Beirut. Messages sent/received
Kiryat Shmona Mayor Haim Barbivay said the Hizbullah anti-aircraft firing was heavier than usual and was clearly heard by residents of the city, many of whom were out shopping at the open air market. He said some shrapnel had fallen in the city and caused minor damage to vehicles, but no one was hurt, despite the fact it was an outdoors market day. "If I have to chose between the bad, in terms of the anti-aircraft firing, or the worse in the form of Katyusha rockets, then I suppose I prefer the former," said Barbivay. "It is not very pleasant, however, and is certainly not something you get used to. So far, we have been very lucky, but this cannot be allowed to continue. We are now in the run-up to the long summer vacation when thousands of children will be out and about at all times of the day. If there is any firing then and falling shrapnel, it could lead to casualties." Barbivay called on the government to take "appropriate measures" to cease the anti-aircraft firing, even if it meant stopping flights over Lebanon and thereby removing Hizbullah's pretext for the shelling. Nice Chamberlain on you, Barbivay
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 03:25 pm ||
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#1
Sounds like the IAF is reconning (recce'ing to the Brits and other Commonwealthers) up north. I wonder what gives?
#3
Sounds more like the gunners pants are wet at the IDEA of the IDF flying near them, and they decided to shoot off some big guns to make themselves feel like MANLY a-rabs again.
UNITED NATIONS — The U.N. Security Council adopted a resolution on Thursday exempting U.S. peacekeepers on a U.N.-backed mission from prosecution by the new International Criminal Court. France, Germany and Syria abstained in the vote, which received 12 votes in favor. The International Criminal Court was set up to try individuals for the world's most heinous atrocities — mass murder, serious human rights violations and war crimes. ICC-0 US-1; Next up? the arrogant Belgians
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 02:11 pm ||
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Funny you should mention that: Washington lambasted a Belgian law on Thursday which could put Iraq war commander General Tommy Franks and other officials in the dock, and vowed to block spending on NATO's new Brussels HQ while the law stands.
"By passing this law, Belgium has turned its legal system into a platform for divisive politicized lawsuits against her NATO allies," Rumsfeld told a news conference. "It would obviously not be easy for U.S. officials or potentially coalition officials, civilian or military, to come to Belgium for meetings. Certainly until this matter is resolved we will have to oppose any further spending for construction for a new NATO headquarters here in Brussels."
Hit them right in the old checkbook.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/12/2003 15:28 Comments ||
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There is something I don't quite understand. Why is the U.S. so much against the ICC? Is it just fear of manipulated cases against U.S. citizen or do you reject the whole concept?
I'm asking this as somebody who attended Nurenberg as a witness 1946.
Is there a model of an ICC the U.S. could agree too? Would it change things if the court was based in the U.S.?
Or how would you try "individuals for the world's most heinous atrocities â mass murder, serious human rights violations and war crimes" when the guy won't be prosecuted back home or in a third country?
Why is the U.S. so worried that an U.S. soldier could be prosecuted there? If there were plausible facts that an U.S. citizen committed these acts couldn't the Court just send him to the U.S.? The word "immunity" instead leaves a bad taste in the mouth, like the U.S. feared that there could actually be cases coming up. But do you really think the ICC would risk its reputation with prosecuting bogus cases?
#3
The worry comes from what's been happening with politically motivated suits such as are being brought in Belgium against Franks, with talk about similar suits against Bush and Blair, and whatever Israelis' names the leftists can remember. Same thing applies to Pinochet's arrest in Europe, after the case was reconciled at home. There's also the tit-for-tat "balanced platform" idea - you've got five Serbs, you've got to balance that with five Croats and/or five Bosnians.
I don't know what the solution is. Some mechanism is necessary to deal with the bad guys when the shootin's all done, but the definition of "bad guy" can vary, depending on who won the war - or nowadays, who the guys bringing the suits wanted to win the war. Assuming we see a more stable world in 20 or 30 years, an ICC should be a good idea, but it's probably premature now, much as I'd like to see Sammy and Chuck Taylor and Bob of Zim-Bob-We on the dock.
Posted by: Fred ||
06/12/2003 19:17 Comments ||
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But do you really think the ICC would risk its reputation with prosecuting bogus cases?
Reputation with whom?
See Belgium's "We are the Judge and Jury of the entire Universe" law.
#5
TGA: I can't speak for every American. I have three worries. 1. The ICC is either a colonial or anti-colonial instrument. In the colonial case, we enlightened Westerners once again take up the white man's burden and clean up the Idi Amins of this world. This probably won't play in Peking. Alternatively, the dictatorships of the world use their raw numbers to launch nuisance cases against Western states and leaders. Either way, the court becomes ineffective quickly, rather like the UN Commission on Human Rights. 2. I've seen too many times when European courts have handed down ten or fifteen year sentences on real murdering scumbags. In my conception of justice, people like that get put away for life, either through imprisonment or execution. I don't want to support a court based on European sentencing guidelines. 3. While I utterly disagree with the far left, I never underestimate their doggedness and resourcefulness. Whatever safeguards that are put in place to prevent Pinochet-type trials will be undermined in a year or two at most and soon more and more American leaders will be indicted. Which takes me back to number one, since the ultra-leftists will have all the support they need from the anti-colonialists in this matter.
#6
11A5S, I think the Pinochet case is the wrong example as that wasn't a purely politically motivated case. If I remember well the Spanish asked the Brits to extradite Pinochet to Spain because Pinochet had also killed Spanish citizens.
What annoys me is that the U.S. just says no to the ICC without saying how this court could work properly. After all nobody objects to Slobo being tried in The Hague? Nor the Rwandan mass murderers?
So if a victim spots his torturer in a third country, what should he do?
#7
TGA: I tried thinking of ways that I could make this work and I cannot. Every leader from every non-UN sanctioned war that the US has fought in the past forty years would become a target. Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, GWII, and any future non-approved conflict are all goldmines to our enemies. I want to reiterate my point about the tenacity of cetain folk on the far left. I have personally witnessed how they have used the environmental laws in the US to effectively undermine military readiness. I could see them using the Freedom of Information Act to get names down to the private soldier level. I personally know people who were part of the action at the Comandancia in Panama City. For years the left has been trumpeting the resultant fires in the surrounding tenenments as "war crimes". I know that the ICC isn't supposed to go after guys like that especially if their own government begins its own investigation, but in my heart of hearts, I know that the ICC will.
#8
What annoys me is the pathological anti-Americanism that pervades most of the world right now, such as this example in Belgium. Check out the polling recently done on favourable/unfavourable views of the US. Should the US sign up to the ICC, there's no telling what will come out of the woodwork. I think US lawmakers are acutely aware of this.
#9
"Why is the U.S. so much against the ICC?"
I'm surprised you can't answer that question yourself. After all, even if Schroeder did quickly apologize for that Bush-Hitler comparison, it could not have been helpful in convincing the US to sign up. I know this is a weak example, but why would any US politician or citizen even want to risk being put through the hassles such as the ones that might develop in Belgium.
#10
I think there is a more fundamental problem with the ICC. As I understand it, the ICC does not provide citizens of the US the same legal protections and rights as set forth in the constitution. Even if signed and ratified, the courts would strike it down.
#11
TGA, simple answer: such a court would be unconstitutional in our country. Our Constitution holds that the US Supreme Court is the supreme law judging court of our country and for our citizens. Whatever legislation Congress passed to ratify and implement the ICC would usurp the role of the USSC (it's unavoidable), and that's a no-no -- Congress isn't allowed to diminish the constitutional power of the USSC.
For the same reason we won't sign certain arms control agreements that give inspectors powers to examine private property in the US announced -- that violates our Bill of Rights which protects citizens against unlawful searches. Again, Congress can't ratify a treaty that violates the rights of our citizens.
Secretary of State Colin Powell is preparing to meet in Jordan with leaders of Russia, the European Union and the United Nations in an effort to repair the tattered road map for peacemaking between Israel and the Palestinians, U.S. and diplomatic sources said Thursday. I know they don't want to give up on the 'map, but can't they send someone who doesn't care?
The tentative date is June 22, coinciding with a World Economic Forum at the Jordanian seaport, but final arrangements have not been made. I hope some of the terrorists that are sure to be there can kill some of the rioting idiots that are sure to be there.
Powell will be joined by U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov. Senior European Union officials also were invited. This is a group of ass-clowns that will accomplish nothing if there ever was such a group. The above comment, of course, does not includ Mr. Powells Service record. For that I have nothing but praise.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
06/12/2003 01:40 pm ||
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Hey, I predicted as much yesterday.
UNITED NATIONS — Chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix said he might write a book about his search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. You just know that this will be late night joke fodder about the world's thinnest book. Blix, who is retiring on June 30, said he has been approached by several interested publishers. Perchance was one of them Hillary's publisher?
``I think documentation is important, and certainly getting the history straight is important,'' he told The Associated Press this week. His story, however is NOT history.
Blix said the Bush administration criticized him but applied no pressure as his teams searched for banned weapons. On Wednesday, London's Guardian newspaper had quoted Blix as saying, ``I have my detractors in Washington. There are bastards who spread things around, of course, who planted nasty things in the media.'' Asked Wednesday whether he used the word to refer to the Bush administration, Blix replied: ``No, no, absolutely not. I was talking about private individuals.'' Nice sleight-of-hand there Hans.
Assistant Editor Brian McDermott at The Guardian said in an interview late Wednesday, ``Blix hasn't come back to us to contradict what we've published. We absolutely stand by what our reporter has written.''
Republicans Limit Probe of Iraq Intelligence
I lean toward Andrew Sullivan's view on this as expressed here:
LET THEM INVESTIGATE: The Republicans are dumb and paranoid to try and stop a full-fledged investigation into the intelligence findings that provided the basis for one of the main arguments for the war against Saddam. It's important that any flaws in intelligence are fully explored; and any hype that might have been added to the data should be fully exposed and examined. If the administration has nothing to hide - and I doubt it has - let the light in. These Republicans are acting like, er, well, the Clintons. http://www.andrewsullivan.com/
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Republicans in Congress on Wednesday rebuffed calls by Democrats for a full-blown investigation into whether the Bush administration misread or inflated the threats posed by Iraq before going to war.
But they agreed to hold oversight hearings and review documents on U.S. intelligence on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.
The Bush administration justified the invasion of Iraq largely on the imminent threat it said such weapons posed, but since the war none has been found.
Senior Republicans dismissed as political gamesmanship demands by some Democrats for a full-scale probe into whether the United States was misled into going to war. The Dems better be pretty crafty on this or they will end up burning themselves.
"There seems to be a campaign afoot by some to criticize the intelligence community and the president for connecting the dots, for putting together a picture that seemed all too obvious," said Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Pat Roberts, of Kansas.
The Republican chairmen of the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee and the Senate Armed Services Committee joined Roberts in rejecting calls for an investigation.
The White House has stood by its position that Iraq was pursuing banned weapons, but officials have begun to talk of finding weapons "programs" or "capabilities" instead of the weapons themselves.
'HYPED' INTELLIGENCE?
Some Democrats say the administration appears to have "hyped" the intelligence, drawing the most dire conclusions from the available information in a push for war to oust President Saddam Hussein. If this is true, then I want to know it and let the chips fall.
Democrats on the two Senate committees that oversee intelligence operations called for a formal joint investigation of the administration's case on Iraq's weapons and alleged links to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network.
"We've got to make sure that the CIA does not embellish or distort in any way the intelligence information in order to advance a policy of any administration," said Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, the top Democrat on the Armed Services Committee.
Sen. Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, the Intelligence Committee's ranking Democrat, called the Republicans' plan for oversight hearings "entirely inadequate and slow-paced."
"I'm not sure whether they really want to get to the crux of what really happened," he said, adding that he would keep pressing for a broad inquiry.
But Roberts said he was seeking all relevant documents from the administration and would proceed "in a very deliberate and bipartisan manner" starting with a closed hearing next week.
With media reports of unnamed officials saying they felt pressured to slant intelligence, Roberts said he has "yet to hear from any intelligence official expressing such concerns" and urged anyone in that position to tell the committee.
Senate Armed Serives Committee Chairman John Warner of Virginia said the evidence he has seen "does not rise to give the presumption that anyone in this administration has hyped or cooked or embellished such evidence to a particular purpose."
#1
The first person that the panel should call before them is President Clinton. It was his admistration that called for Iraq to come clean on the WMDs and launched missile strikes to force (right) the issue. Second should be Congressman and Presidential wanabee Dick Gepdhart for he too told us of the 'grave dangers' of the Iraqi WMDs programs. Sean Penn should also be called as an eye witness.
#3
I agree, don't stop these hearings. Let the Dems incur the wrath of the American people for trying to politicize the war. Turn the tables lol
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 15:38 Comments ||
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#4
The first person that the panel should call before them is President Clinton. It was his admistration that called for Iraq to come clean on the WMDs and launched missile strikes to force (right) the issue. Second should be Congressman and Presidential wanabee Dick Gepdhart for he too told us of the 'grave dangers' of the Iraqi WMDs programs. Sean Penn should also be called as an eye witness.
#8
The big problem with such an inspection of both the information and its implications is the habit most Dummycheats (and far too large a number of Repuglycons) have of talking when they should be keeping their mouths shut. I am constantly amazed at how our "elected representatives" have no concept of the need to protect classified information and/or the sources of that information, or the need to keep it from being spread all over the front of our newspapers.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
06/12/2003 14:51 Comments ||
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#9
I agree, don't stop these hearings. Let the Dems incur the wrath of the American people for trying to politicize the war. Turn the tables lol
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 15:38 Comments ||
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#10
I think the best way to get the Democrats to hang themselves would be to stonewall them so they can continue harping on this issue well into 2004. WMD's are a losing issue for them - their base will get wound up about conspiracy theories, but no ordinary person is going to worry about being 99.99% sure about Saddam. The point is that he's gone.
We're still waiting for the other shoe to drop with respect to al Qaeda.* When that happens, the Democrats are going to get wiped out in the 2004 elections. Bush's coat-tails will be a mile long. The Democrats are playing politics in a time of war. They will be appropriately rewarded at the voting booth.
*Doesn't even have to be a WTC scale attack. A Palestinian-style suicide bomber on the New York subway during rush hour would kill 200-300 people. (200 people can fit into a single subway car - at rush hour, it gets packed).
#11
best thing for the dems is probably if Dean wins the nomination, and loses big. Yeah, its bad further down the ticket, but it clears the way for the "pragmatic wing" to take over and win in 2008. Right now the lefties would like to claim the Clinton wins were a fluke, and blame losing in 2000 on Gore being too moderate. If dems nominate Joe, or Edwards and they lose - as they very well might, against an incumbent in wartime, with economy likely picking back up by fall 2004, the lefties will blame it all on the DLC.
The activists may like the left, but the elected officials hate having a leftie at the top of the ticket, since it often leads to them losing their jobs.
#12
LH - as a Pack member as well as VRWC member, I wish you'd keep your thoughts to yourself ;-)
Of course, you are completely right. It doesn't help the Dems that Iowa and N.H. get first votes either, especially Iowa, which competes with the rest as "most liberal nuthouse". Too much weight goes to the activists, which tend to teh extremities of the party planks
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 17:35 Comments ||
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#13
Let me see now...George Bush looked at the most dire thing that Saddam could do (give a proxie WMDs to use against us and maybe kill a million people) and decided to prevent that from happening.... yeah the democrats should push this one big time.... it is good a way as any to insure his reelection
TEHRAN - Iran's supreme leader raised the possibility of a harsh crackdown Thursday after two days of pro-reform demonstrations during which hundreds of increasingly bold young people have gone so far as to call for his death. OW! That got his attention
The last two days have seen the largest demonstrations against Iran's political leadership in six months. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, in a speech broadcast on state television and radio Thursday, referred to violence in 1999, when vigilantes and security forces attacked students protesting media restrictions, killing at least one student and touching off the worst street battles since the 1979 revolution that ousted the U.S.-backed shah. ``If the Iranian nation decides to deal with the (current) rioters, it will do so in the way it dealt with it on July 14, 1999,'' Khamenei said.
That'll either send them to lick their wounds for another three or four years, by which time Khamenei could be dead of old age, or it could spark a full-scale rebellion against the theocrats. I'm hoping for the latter, expecting the former...
Authorities had condemned the attack on the hostel but blamed the riots on opposition groups. Khamenei took a similar line Thursday, saying that if vigilantes stepped in, ``wherever they see riots,'' they would be blamed for the violence. ``It should not be allowed that a group of people contaminate society and universities with riots and insecurity, and then attribute it to the pious youth,'' Khamenei said. pious youths with truncheons, weak moustachios
Tehran state radio originally misquoted Khamenei as blatantly urging vigilantes to intervene. Later state television and radio broadcast the full speech. There was no sign of further protests at the university hostels at midday Thursday. Students tend to protest in the evenings during summer. It's cooler and darker. We may be threats to the mullahs, but we ain't stoopid
Exiled opposition groups are seizing the opportunity created by restless Iranian youth, encouraging dissent through avenues like Los Angeles-based Persian TV channels. U.S. pressure on Iran, which Washington accuses of hiding a nuclear weapons program and harboring terrorists, may have further emboldened those who hope to see the regime toppled. On Wednesday, dozens of hard-line vigilantes on motorbikes chased about 300 mostly teenage protesters, beating them with sticks in the streets outside a Tehran University dormitory in the city's Amirabad district. Several people were seen being carried away with head injuries. motorbikes, hmmm? Ever heard of the clothesline-across-the-street trick?
Around 200 students in the dormitory compound threw stones and Molotov cocktails at anti-riot police after they joined the vigilantes attacking the protesters. The protesters chanted ``Death to Khamenei'' and threw stones at anti-riot police, who tossed them back. Gotta light the wick on the Molotovs, amateurs
In Iran, criticism of Khamenei is punished by jail and is rarely heard in public. things change
About 80 protesters had been arrested for chanting slogans against the leadership and for participating in unauthorized demonstrations after a small student gathering Tuesday night against privatizing universities grew into an anti-regime demonstration. ``The clerical regime is nearing its end,'' demonstrators chanted. ``Vigilantes commit crimes, the leader supports them.'' Demonstrators also called for the resignation of President Mohammad Khatami, a popularly elected reformist, accusing him of not pushing hard enough for change. Khatami doesn't have the power of unelected hard-liners who control the judiciary and the security forces. But the hard-liners don't have popular support, leaving Iran at a stalemate.
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 12:50 pm ||
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#1
More than half the population of Iran is under 25. They're the ones most affected by being ruled by old men with long beards. They're also the ones most likely to fight. They'll either have to have an outside enemy, or they'll attack those making their life miserable in their own nation. I wouldn't be surprised if the mullahs don't try to stir up something to divert attention from themselves. US assets in that area of the world need to be on hightened alert until this activity either fizzles out, or there's a major change within Iran.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
06/12/2003 14:00 Comments ||
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#2
More than half the population of Iran is under 25. They're the ones most affected by being ruled by old men with long beards. They're also the ones most likely to fight. They'll either have to have an outside enemy, or they'll attack those making their life miserable in their own nation. I wouldn't be surprised if the mullahs don't try to stir up something to divert attention from themselves. US assets in that area of the world need to be on hightened alert until this activity either fizzles out, or there's a major change within Iran.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
06/12/2003 14:00 Comments ||
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#3
This is even bigger than the protests about six months ago:
Radio Farda correspondent Siyavosh Ardalan has been closely following the two nights of protests. "What happened is that many of the students went beside the fences separating the university from the outside and started chanting slogans against the security forces and the Islamic vigilantes who were standing outside," Ardalan said. "And then many of the students, those who were more daring, broke through the fences and went in the street and began setting on fire tires and chairs and tables they had brought out from the university. And some of them had also gone on the rooftops of governmental buildings and private homes and began throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails."
Ardalan says that during the street clashes, students also took three Islamic vigilantes hostage. The students say they will only release them if the police free students who were arrested.
"This whole saga has ended up in a hostage-taking situation where, for the first time in a show of force by the demonstrating students, and also in a show of organization, the students took hostage three of the Islamic vigilantes that they were having scattered scuffles with throughout the night. They have not been released, and a few of the reformist MPs have gone to talk to the students to convince them to release them, [and] this is the first time we are witnessing this development."
The Iranian intelligence minister announced that 18 people were arrested on the first night of the protests. The protests began with demonstrations against reported government plans to privatize elements of the state-run university system -- something the students fear might increase their currently low tuition costs. But the anger over the reported changes quickly escalated into a sweeping criticism of the regime.
[...]
Ansari says the protests this week appear to be converting popular disillusionment into direct demands that Khatami step down. The protestors chanted "Khatami, Khatami, Resign, Resign" as they also shouted slogans against Khamenei and the rest of the establishment.
#4
This is not related to the entry it's under, but the Post and Article link seems to be gone.
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In Japan: Four suspects arrested for allegedly selling missile technology to Iran
Four people have been arrested in Japan for allegedly exporting equipment to Iran, which could potentially be used in the production of missiles.
The suspects worked at a car production company in the capital of Tokyo, AP reported. Among the four arrested is the companyâs 68-year-old president.
According to Tokyo police, the company is suspected of exporting without a license, industrial machines that are used, among other things, in the production of solid fuel, which is used in missiles. (Albawaba.com)
#5
Ardalan says that during the street clashes, students also took three Islamic vigilantes hostage. The students say they will only release them if the police free students who were arrested.
Bravo! About time!
These brave kids have been protesting and turning the other cheek for years while these vigilante bastards with big sticks beat them black and blue. I would have broken down and hit back 6 or 7 protests ago. It appears that our presence in Iraq has made them bold enough to take a REAL stand.
I hope these vigilante bastards are pissing and crapping in their pants at this very moment.
Three Gorges Dam Watch continues:
In a rare admission of problems at the huge Three Gorges Dam in central China, officials said yesterday cracks found in the dam could cause leaks if not fixed and that land provided to relocated farmers was not very fertile. If they admit there are problems, things must be really bad.
The comments contrasted with Government claims that the dam on the Yangtze river has been a success since its reservoir began to fill on June 1. Inspectors have found about 80 cracks in the dam's surface, said Pan Jiazhong, the head of the construction committee inspection group. He said while they were not a safety threat, they could expand and cause leaking if not repaired. You think?
"If water enters these cracks, there could be negative effects, so we are fixing them very carefully." If there are 80 cracks that they can see on the surface, I wonder how many are underwater or internally that they can't see? I'm beginning to believe that they poured the concrete too fast and didn't allow time for it to harden properly.
Posted by: Steve ||
06/12/2003 12:37 pm ||
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#1
I spent some time in construction (I am basically a jack of all trades, master of none) and you can tell a lot about a country's level of corruption by looking at the concrete. There are about a dozen ways to cheat and each one is easily diagnosed within a few months. The problem, AP, isn't the experts. It's usually the contractors. I once had the misfortune of watching a pour in Bolivia. It was the main road into La Paz. The existing concrete highway was gravel after a few years of use. For the new highway, they were using patio-grade reinforcing mesh. I'm sure that the original engineering drawings called out welded rebar and 5000 PSI concrete. I'm sure that somebody at the World Bank even signed off on those plans. I'm also sure that the contractor calculated the difference between rebar and mesh, and 5000 PSI concrete and 2000 PSI concrete and paid out some fraction of that in bribes and pocketed the rest.
#5
typically a dam like this in the U.S. would have movement detection monitors to note cracking, shifting. Wonder what their's is showing?
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 13:02 Comments ||
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#6
Concrete pours for massive dams need more than Mao's Red Book for guidance. It takes special low-heat cement formulations and even refrigeration during the cure to avoid overheating. I wonder what experts they had. This whole thing has the making of a great catastrophe. I feel it in my bones......
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/12/2003 13:05 Comments ||
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#7
If they admit there are problems, things must be really bad.
Definitely. They usually understate everything by a factor of at least 10 (like their SARS cases and resultant fatalities), so just put a zero after every stat and you're closer to the truth.
Posted by: Dar ||
06/12/2003 13:18 Comments ||
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#8
I spent some time in construction (I am basically a jack of all trades, master of none) and you can tell a lot about a country's level of corruption by looking at the concrete. There are about a dozen ways to cheat and each one is easily diagnosed within a few months. The problem, AP, isn't the experts. It's usually the contractors. I once had the misfortune of watching a pour in Bolivia. It was the main road into La Paz. The existing concrete highway was gravel after a few years of use. For the new highway, they were using patio-grade reinforcing mesh. I'm sure that the original engineering drawings called out welded rebar and 5000 PSI concrete. I'm sure that somebody at the World Bank even signed off on those plans. I'm also sure that the contractor calculated the difference between rebar and mesh, and 5000 PSI concrete and 2000 PSI concrete and paid out some fraction of that in bribes and pocketed the rest.
#9
I hope the people that are in danger know what a POS this thing is, but somehow I don't Chinas PR machine has let that happen.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
06/12/2003 13:23 Comments ||
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#10
Didn't somebody say around here recently that most dam collapses occur during the initial filling of the lake? How many dams have collapsed to give a good record? (I'm just curious.)
I lived through a dam collapse in Rapid City, South Dakota around 1974 (?). I was in kindergarten and an earthen dam gave way. There was an old train engine at a park near my house (which was on a hill, thankfully) and they never found the thing.
My dad (an USAF officer at the time) got put on "Search and Rescue" (what means, 'Find the Bodies'). It was a mess. This thing in China is so big it's almost unimaginable what it would be like if that thing goes.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
06/12/2003 13:45 Comments ||
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#11
11A5S---You are right on the mark! QC may be the difference between life and death here. I remember talking to a Turkish engineer about bad concrete and "courtesy" rebar on buildings, especially concrete ones. We get spoiled in the US, though we still have our corruption and product failure issues.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/12/2003 13:50 Comments ||
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#12
Here's some more backround: "During the inspection, for example, we found that some of the vertical cracks on the dam that were repaired have reopened, even though we put a great deal of money and effort into the repair work. It appears that during the concrete pouring, we put too much emphasis on the goal of achieving a very high degree of strength. But it has turned out that a high degree of strength does not necessarily mean good quality in a concrete dam. We have achieved an unnecessarily high degree of strength and a lot of cracks in the dam by pouring too much concrete and spending a great deal of money."
It started cracking before the fill began, on the upstream (water) side. Numerous cracks in the dam were discovered in October, 1999, but only revealed in March last year by the popular South Wind Window magazine, a sister publication of the Guangzhou Daily. After visiting the dam, reporter Zhao Shilong wrote that he had seen cracks stretching from top to bottom of the huge concrete structure. After the problem was brought to light, Lu Youmei, general manager of the Three Gorges Project Development Corp., acknowledged in Three Gorges Project Daily that cracks had appeared on the whole upstream face of the 483-metre-long spillway section, and that they extended from 1 metre to 1.25 metres into the dam. For his part, Zhang Chaoran, chief engineer of the Three Gorges Project Development Corp., said: âThis is a normal phenomenon, and cracks such as these can be observed in almost all large dams around the world.â But he also said: "Our problem was that we failed to take the cracks seriously at first. We didnât think they would develop so quickly or so dramatically, beyond our expectations.â
And then there's this goody: The monitoring of dam safety in China is hampered by a severe shortage of funds and personnel, the China Economic Times reports, warning that the system is "in chaos." With an annual budget of 800,000 yuan RMB (less than US$100,000), the Dam Safety Monitoring Centre in Beijing can barely run its day-to-day operations and pay its 37 staff members, let alone function as an effective inspector of China's dams, the newspaper said.
Most of China's 84,000 dams were built hastily in the 1950s and 1960s, and many are considered at risk of collapse. It cited the 1975 disaster, when 230,000 people are thought to have died after the Banqiao and Shimantan dams in Henan province broke during a typhoon; and the 1993 Gouhou dam failure in Qinghai province, which claimed about 300 lives and caused economic losses of 153 million yuan RMB (US$18.5 million), a huge sum in a poor area. The Three Gorges dam on the Yangtze River is located 200 kilometres upstream of Jinsha (population two million) and 700 km upstream of Wuhan (pop. seven million).
Leading scientists have warned that filling the huge reservoir behind the dam could cause increased seismic activity and geological instability in a region already prone to earthquakes and landslides. Zhang Jiyao, China's vice-minister of water resources, told a national conference last year that 3,459 dams, most of them considered small-scale, had collapsed between 1954 and 2001. He attributed the high failure rate to faulty construction, lack of safety awareness, negligence and mismanagement, and called for improved dam-safety institutions and inspections. But dam safety inspections, which are supposed to take place every five years, "are not going very well," China Economic Times reports. "The inspection is usually organized by the operator of the dam or hydropower station rather than by a more independent organization such as the Dam Safety Monitoring Centre." And to save time and money, the operators invite as few experts as possible to take part in the inspection, and ignore or curtail important parts of the process, the newspaper said.
Start running now!
Posted by: Steve ||
06/12/2003 14:10 Comments ||
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#13
I did a lot of emergency response work in the Air Force, looking at aerial imagery of the aftermath of tornados, floods, hurricanes, avalanches, mudslides, earthquakes, a couple of volcanic eruptions, and a tidal wave. Nature unleashed is a traumatizing experience. I would NOT want to live on the floodplain below the Three Gorges dam. We did some calculations in the early 1980's on the potential destruction if the Aswan Dam collapsed. Aswan's a long way from Cairo, but we still calculated the survival rate would be below ten percent. Mud and debris would be pushed halfway to Cyprus. THe Three Gorges dam is bigger, will contain more acre-feet of water, and has a steeper gradient through the upper Yangtse River than the Aswan/Nile scenario. The Chinese area also has about 20 times the population of ALL of Egypt. If the Three Gorges dam collapses after reaching 75% or more of capacity, we could be looking at a death toll of several hundred million people, and the TOTAL collapse of the Chinese economy.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
06/12/2003 14:10 Comments ||
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#14
Of course, instead of pouring money into missiles aimed at Taiwan, they could have spent the necessary resources ensuring the safe construction. Political hegemony wins over interests of the population. Will a failure of the Dam spark an uprising? I would hope so, but....
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 14:23 Comments ||
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#15
Frank,
I'm afraid we'll see something even more destabilizing than an "uprising". IF the Three Gorges Dam breaks, the economic collapse of China will make our "Black Thursday" in 1929 seem like a birthday party. The repercussions will affect every nation and every company on this planet. We're talking about a 100+ foot high wall of water moving at 70-80 miles an hour along the path of least resistance. It won't leave a bridge, road, house, field, or anything else but a scoured path of mud and debris behind it.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
06/12/2003 15:01 Comments ||
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#16
OP beat me to it,expect to see millions die.
I live about 5 mile s from Roosevelt Lake(largest lake completely within the state)It is the first in a chain of four dams.If Roosevelt goes so does Phoenix.
#17
Given the accounts above, please tell me that our goverment is actually guarding our dams.
Posted by: John L ||
06/12/2003 15:17 Comments ||
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#18
Damn dam.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
06/12/2003 15:30 Comments ||
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#19
Laurence otR: I was five at the time of the Rapid City Flood (June 9-10, '72) growing up in Custer about an hour south, and I still remember that night. My older brother was in the NG in Chamberlain which was also called out to help.
There are some pictures of the Rapid City flood aftermath at this site.
Now living in Pittsburgh, I've visited the Nat'l Memorial site near Johnstown and visited the Flood Museum in town as well. For any of you travelling through western PA, a stop at either site is a very moving experience. The Nat'l Memorial is at the site of the dam that burst, and their documentary movie won an Oscar the year it was produced.
Posted by: Dar ||
06/12/2003 15:38 Comments ||
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#20
Rest easy, John L: I had the privilege of visiting the Glen Canyon Dam on the Colorado River (#3 in the United States in size, #1 in backed up water behind it). The security was impressive. When we went back to take a raft trip down the river, security was tight also.
I saw the movie "Dam busters" a while back. It is actually a very tough problem to bring down a big, well constructed Dam, never mind the associated hazards of the AA fire the dam busters met.
Rest easy: The terrorists we know of aren't smart enough to take down a dam, nor have the insight to use any nuke they have to take one out and cause more damage than using the nuke to take out a city.
#22
Holy Hydraulic Grade Line Batman! I reread the postings and I feel Secret Master's fear. Well, what's next after we have stirred ourselves up?
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/12/2003 16:33 Comments ||
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#23
Dar,
Thanks for that link. I'm going to send it on to my family. My own memories of the flood are mostly just that there was water at the bottom of the hill and we could couldn't go anywhere, and my dad was gone "to the Air Force" for days.
Several years ago I found a small booklet in my parents house that was printed sometime after the flood that had pictures and a description of events. I wonder if they still have it.
This thread has been really interesting, I had no idea that dam in China was such a possible danger. Why aren't we reading more about this in the regular news?
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats ||
06/12/2003 16:38 Comments ||
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#26
I was working a contract for a federal water management agency some years back. There was a lot of rain, and the local papers accused the feds of opening all the floodgates on one of the dams.
What they'd actually done was open two of the smaller floodgates to prevent the dam from being overtopped. One of the engineers explained to me, "If we'd opened all the gates, downtown xxx would be under 16 feet of water."
#27
I have been in some of our dams and have spent my life pouring concrete, believe me, they are more structurally sound than the Twin Towers. I have seen the motion detectors that would show a hundredth of an inch movement if it happened.
As to the Chinese, well we do know that they are looking for new ways to reduce their population.
Followup, EFL.
MONROVIA - Families emboldened by a lull in fighting headed back to bullet-strewn districts of Liberia's capital on Thursday, as envoys of President Charles Taylor and rebels resumed peace talks in the nearby west African nation of Ghana. Taylor's defense minister thug, Daniel Chea, and representatives of Liberia's two rebel groups had their first face-to-face meeting Thursday. A cease-fire signing could come as early as Friday, he said. Ack! Are you guys nuts? Chuckie's gotta go!!
Liberian children were led into the room to plead with all sides to stop the fighting threatening to overwhelm Taylor's last stronghold, Monrovia, the official said. After which they were all drafted, given rifles and sent to the front.
Those that weren't exported to DRC as foodstuffs...
After days of bloody clashes on Monrovia's northwestern outskirts, the government and main rebel group have declared their intent to cease hostilities, with conditions. No new fighting has been reported since Tuesday. The rebel offensive was the most intense yet in a three-year campaign to drive out Taylor, who now controls little territory outside the capital. Taylor's government claimed to have repelled the attack. Liberians fear a bloody battle for Monrovia, a city of one million repeatedly overrun during seven years of devastating faction fighting that ended in 1996. Taylor emerged the nastiest strongest warlord from that conflict and won rigged presidential elections the following year.
But keep in mind that some of his old rivals are still around. Prince Johnson, last I heard, was living the life of a retired gent...
Monrovia residents awoke Thursday to the sound of heavy rains - but not artillery. The more optimistic among tens of thousands of people who fled their homes during five days of fighting began to trickle back to outlying areas. The fighting left bodies lying in the streets of northwestern neighborhoods, although the total toll for the campaign is unknown. Some buses and taxis had returned to the Monrovia's streets and roadside, open-air vendors hawked their wares - often at massively inflated prices. Somebody please put Chuckie away.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/12/2003 12:36 pm ||
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Yes, put Chuckie away. But I am concerned about LURD as well. Do they really represent, as their name claims, "Liberians United for Reconcilliation and Democracy"? Not all reports are positive. LURD fighters often favor LA "gangster chic," and their commanders sport such delightful names as "Dragon Master" and "Nasty Duke."
Followup to last week's news. EFL.
Idaho Sen. Larry Craig cleared the way for the Senate to approve the promotions of 127 Air Force captains and majors, but will continue to stall promotions of higher-ranking officers in a showdown over planes for the Air National Guard in his state. Relenting to requests from the White House, Craig's staff processed paperwork releasing the 127 nominees Wednesday night and they were scheduled for a Senate vote Thursday, said Will Hart, a spokesman for the Idaho Republican. "Senator Craig is still reserving his right on the rest of these holds until we are able to come to a conclusion," Hart said. "I'm not finished shaking these people down!"
Hart said holds remain in place on 85 colonels and generals, including Maj. Gen. John W. Rosa Jr., who was picked to lead the Air Force Academy. Some Senate officials have put the number of officers' nominations on hold at nearly 400. Senate rules allow any senator to delay action indefinitely on a nomination sent by the president for Senate confirmation. Craig put the holds on the Air Force promotions nearly three weeks ago and vowed to stall them until the Air Force honors a commitment to add four C-130 transport planes to complete a squadron at Gowen Air National Guard Base in Boise. Some call this blackmail, some call it politics.
Craig said he had worked in the past several years to secure $40 million in construction at the air base in anticipation of the planes being relocated. The additional planes would bolster the Boise air field's standing in the coming round of military base closures scheduled for 2005. Craig met with Air Force Secretary James G. Roche and White House representatives who acted as arbiters in the dispute, but no resolution was reached and there have been no meetings since. White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer has made it clear that the president wants the nominations to proceed. "That's in part why the senator released the lower ranks of this field grade list in deference to the White House position, but they are working with us, so that is a positive," Hart said. The senator also has delayed the confirmation of Gen. Robert Foglesong, selected to head the U.S. Air Forces in Europe; and Lt. Gen. T. Michael Moseley, who commanded allied air forces during the Iraq war and would replace Foglesong as Air Force vice chief of staff. Time to send Larry another e-mail to let him know just how much we appreciate his jerking around the guys who fought the war for us.
Posted by: Steve White ||
06/12/2003 12:29 pm ||
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What the heck is it with the Senate, the water fountains? Why do they think they can hold up or stop nominations of the exec branch? You know, it might be time to start discussing unicameral again. We don't need a House of Lords. Even elected ones.
Posted by: Scott ||
06/12/2003 12:49 Comments ||
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#2
I was outraged by Sen. Craig's manipulations! Here is what I sent him by e-mail:
Dear Senator Craig:
I am outraged at your tying the promotions of many military personnel up for a few C-130s.
It is important for the good of the people that defend us that we treat them fairly based upon their merit. Tying these two issues together is politics at its worst. I do not know the merits of the case for additional C-130s for Idaho, but holding hundreds of military promotions hostage is as low as the behavior of Turkey towards the US when they were holding out for more money to let us pass through on the way to Iraq.
I am sure that you have done good things for the country and for your great state of Idaho. But this kind of politics makes voters and young people bitter and cynical toward our great system. It shows young people that politicians are backroom manipulators and not statesmen. How do I explain your actions to my son?
Please reconsider your position and do the right thing and stop the politics.
Respectfully,
Paul Weisner, P.E.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/12/2003 13:01 Comments ||
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#3
AP. You're much smoother than I am. I would have told him to stay away from the people who are deserving of the promotions he's tying up, becuase they might just drive a railroad spike through his thick skull. I would if I were one of them.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
06/12/2003 13:38 Comments ||
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#4
That letter was the first step before descending into the gutter. Always give them an out before you corner them and start applying RR spikes. Heh heh. Besides, I can lay it on thick too, LOL.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/12/2003 13:55 Comments ||
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#5
It's an astonishingly good thing that the US military is so loyal. The clowns in Washington seem hell-bent on insulting, injuring, and making life miserable for active duty, retired,and reserve service members and their dependents. If those folk were any less loyal to the CONSTITUTION, they'd do some serious butt-kicking in Washington. Some of these idiots should be reminded that the military are the people with the best knowledge of how and when to fight.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
06/12/2003 14:19 Comments ||
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#6
Give him the c-130's.
Parts,what parts.Nobody said anything about parts.
#7
Give him the grounded C-130 early mods that were flying fire retardant. You got your planes, so STFU.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/12/2003 15:58 Comments ||
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#8
...What's sad to me is that I know John Rosa - I worked for him when he was commanding the 20th FW at SHaw AFB, SC - if anybody could clean up that mess that's developed at the USAFA, he could - but every day they keep him away will be one more day for that crowd of idiots there to close ranks. And when things keep being found, the media will blame MGen Rosa - not Senator Craig, who obviously couldn't care less.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
06/13/2003 1:19 Comments ||
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Link courtesy of Little Green Footballs, which has more on the story.
SEATTLE - A student from a college in western Washington State has been arrested for allegedly plotting to bomb nearby Coast Guard, Army National Guard and oil facilities. Paul Revak, 20, a student at Western Washington University, was charged with threatening to use weapons of mass destruction and solicitation to commit a crime of violence, said Andrew Hamilton, assistant U.S. attorney.
"Weapons of mass destruction"? Don't you think that's a little overblown?
Revak, who appeared in federal court in Seattle on Wednesday, allegedly asked an undercover FBI agent for help in obtaining C-4 plastic explosive and hand grenades.
Neither of which is a weapon of mass destruction...
Revak, who faces up to life in prison if found guilty, was turned in by another student at Western Washington University in Bellingham, Washington, about 60 miles north of Seattle. In a manifesto that Revak showed to other students, he allegedly wrote: "You need not worry about Osama or Saddam or the boogeyman, but if you are part of this empire, you should fear us. Our will is strong, our message is just and we will prevail."
"We are many! There are... ummm... one of us!"
U.S. authorities have been on high alert for any threats of violence after the jetliner hijacks on Sept. 11, 2001, which sparked the U.S. hunt for al Qaeda.
Binny was getting all the attention, and dumbass wanted some for himself...
Revak was allegedly scouting nearby facilities, including an oil refinery on the coast and nearby security facilities as potential targets, prosecutors said.
Posted by: Mike ||
06/12/2003 12:25 pm ||
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from the LGF linked story - he sounds more like a disgruntled wanna-be islamic hero
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 12:39 Comments ||
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Read this at LGF too, Frank. The two linked articles really didn't have much of an Islamic flavor though. I get the feeling this kid is more one of those anti-globo, anti-American "anarchists". You know, the ones that run around the demos with the black ski masks, being "daring and dangerous".
From Fox, EFL
[T]he third Israeli air strike against Hamas targets in 24 hours . . . came shortly after the Islamic militant group ordered its fighters to continue their attacks on Israelis. A leader of the Islamic militant group, Mahmoud Zahar, said those killed in the airstrike were Yasser Taha, a member of the Hamas military wing, Taha's wife, and the couple's two small children. A baby bottle was among the items pulled from the burning car. It's unfortunate that the sins of the father were visited on the children.
It's also unfortunate they use their wives and children as shields...
The car was driving in the Sheikh Radwan neighborhood of Gaza City, a Hamas stronghold, when it was hit by three missiles, witnesses said. A fourth missile hit the car as bystanders rushed to the rescue, said Mussallam Amaireh, 52, a guard at a nearby mosque. At the time of the strike, the streets were crowded with mourners who had attended the nearby funeral of 11 people killed in two previous missile strikes.
Posted by: Mike ||
06/12/2003 12:15 pm ||
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#1
nice moral equivalence Aris. Unfortunately, the innocents in the buses are not being held tight around Sharon or Barak or other high-ranking Israelis as human shields. The Paleo killers are cowards and scum, and there is no moral equivalence. I'm sure his daughter would've been sent out as a martyr (yeah, right...that's only for the other families). Damn shame she was born to a piece of shit like this, but sometimes human shields don't work.
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 13:08 Comments ||
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#2
In most places, resistance fighters leave their wives and kids behind and assume noms de guerre in order to avoid having them caught in a crossfire. These guys not only openly conduct their operations under their own names - they live and go out with their families. If Palestinian terrorists selfishly choose the company of their kin over the personal safety of that kin, that's their funeral.
#3
Hamas,Al Aqasa,Hezbolla,etc. absolutly no mercy,no quarter.2 choices lay down your arms or die,if you hide amongst your familys or other civilians it be on your heads.Hamas and the rest have stated loud and often the only peace they want is the total and complete destruction of Israel,they(not Israel)have declared Total War.
I don't want to hear but that is terrorisam,not even in the same ball park.I don't see Israel targetting buses,and pizza parlors.
#4
"Sins of the fathers being visited on the children" seems of course to be the justification that the various terrorists/suicide bombers of Hamas and similar organizations are also using for the massacres of innocents...
#5
In the last three days the israelis have targeted many hamas terrorists in their cars...and Taha thinks that to go for a ride in the car with wife and children is a good idea ? He was using them as human shields. And that's another act of terrorism HE has committed. Period. And I am sick and tired of parallels between Israel's self-defense and the terrorism of the arabs. They moved war in 1948, in 1956, in 1967, in 1972 to destroy Israel and still Israel has not destroyed them as they deserve. Then they started with the terrorism. And still Israel has not destroyed them.
If it were a one to one thing and you had attacked me all these times, you would be dead. But for the european leftists the war is allowed only for the arabs, the Israelis are criminals if they defend themselves.
#6
nice moral equivalence Aris. Unfortunately, the innocents in the buses are not being held tight around Sharon or Barak or other high-ranking Israelis as human shields. The Paleo killers are cowards and scum, and there is no moral equivalence. I'm sure his daughter would've been sent out as a martyr (yeah, right...that's only for the other families). Damn shame she was born to a piece of shit like this, but sometimes human shields don't work.
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 13:08 Comments ||
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#7
I didn't read Aris' comment as implying any sort of moral equivalence. I thought the point he was making is that Hamas et al. believe it's OK to kill Israelis because of something their ancerstors supposedly did to Arabs back in, oh, say, 1948 or 1375 or some such.
Which is morally indefensible, of course.
As for my own comment, let me elaborate: I'm glad Taha got toasted, I just wish the babies hadn't been. I hadn't really seen it as a "human shields" issue, but if that's why Taha had the kids in the car with him--well, there ain't no circle in hell low enough for someone who can do that to their own kids.
Posted by: Mike ||
06/12/2003 13:24 Comments ||
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#8
In most places, resistance fighters leave their wives and kids behind and assume noms de guerre in order to avoid having them caught in a crossfire. These guys not only openly conduct their operations under their own names - they live and go out with their families. If Palestinian terrorists selfishly choose the company of their kin over the personal safety of that kin, that's their funeral.
#9
I'd have to disagree that the "sins of the father" is morally indefensible. The conflict clearly has a generational aspect. Killing the children along with the parents is going to be more effective, much as removing tinder from a forest fire would be.
I suggest that the world accept that Isreal won the war that took the west bank. Standard occupation rules include curfew, roadblocks, and execution of hostile elements. Like anyone who is stupid enough to associate with Hamas for example...
#10
ZhangFei, Mike, Frank G,
What do you think would be the reaction of most americans (not politicians but the common guys in the street)to an Israely military action in Gaza that will result in a few thousand dead Hamas members ???
Do you think the majority of american people will understand the inevitability of such a bloodbath in order to make the pali's undarstand where they stand ??
Posted by: The Dodo ||
06/12/2003 14:17 Comments ||
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#11
No moral equivalence. Hamas is genocidal, the Israelis are not. That's clear.
But I do wonder, though, whether the Israeli army chose as violent way as possible to attack this terrorist leader, to send a message of their own... Is it just that they didn't know his location most of the time and were afraid they'd lose him again if they didn't strike at that precise moment?
It's just that we rarely seem to hear about precise killings/assasinations of terrorists.
Here's my $0.02: Up through 9/10/01, I would have expected a fair bit of sympathy to go to the Palestinians. That would have been attributable in part to the anti-Israel spin in the mainstream press, and in part to the American cultural tendency to root for underdogs.
After 9/11/01, I think most Americans (though not necessarily most American pundits, professors, media types, and other "opinion leaders") see Hamas (correctly) as cut from the same cloth as al-Qaida and the Taliban and Saddam. Therefore, I would expect no significant negative reaction against Israel on the "American street." In fact, there would probably be a significant fraction of the American street which would quietly be glad that Israel got the bastards.
Over to you, Zhang and Frank . . .
Posted by: Mike ||
06/12/2003 14:29 Comments ||
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#14
Dodo: There was talk a couple of weeks ago, of Israel contemplating joining the EU. Can you comment on that?
#15
Generationally focussed killings may be the smartest thing to do, throughout history that has been the rule, but I think we and Israel would lose our moral identities by going down that path. I understand the IDF has been directed to wipe out Hamas - no more restraint. That has been what the Paleos have been asking for all along with their attacks, knowing that Europe and the US would rein in Israel. I think Bush will tut-tut about it, but Hamas has chosen this path after a real chance for peace was offered, and he knows it. He can no more ask Sharon to offer up busloads of dead Jews than he would offer an American city to an Al-Qaeda nuke. Good hunting IDF, and hit what you aim for, with as little collateral as possible. Now then, a couple ISM casualties (St. Pancake's group) wouldn't cause me to lose any sleep. A massive cause/effect demonstration is in order
Frank
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 15:22 Comments ||
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#16
Aris,
I sincerely believe that these strikes are "target of opportunity" and not "as violent way as possible to attack this terrorist leader, to send a message of their own". It would be stupid of the Israelis, who are being constantly held on the defensive by the court of public opinion (i.e. the media) to start discounting collateral damage for "message" value. If they REALLY wanted to do that, a "daisy cutter" type bomb on an Arafat cabinet meeting would be far more effective.
#17
Hamas,Al Aqasa,Hezbolla,etc. absolutly no mercy,no quarter.2 choices lay down your arms or die,if you hide amongst your familys or other civilians it be on your heads.Hamas and the rest have stated loud and often the only peace they want is the total and complete destruction of Israel,they(not Israel)have declared Total War.
I don't want to hear but that is terrorisam,not even in the same ball park.I don't see Israel targetting buses,and pizza parlors.
#18
These Hamas guys have been warned that they will be taken out. If someone wants to hang around, then they, by using common sense (Paleo moron, oxy)will possibly get what is coming to aforesead hamas guy. A few more of these and folks may learn that being around Hamas guys is a liability and not an asset. It is absolutely horrible to have children die, but it is absolutely horrible to wage the kind of boomer war on Israeli civilians, using explosives, nails, bolts, germs, including boomer human schrapnel with AIDS or Hepatitis riding shotgun. The only way we can get to a peaceful settlement is to eliminate these terrorist organizations. THEN we talk. The rest is hot air and wasted Jet-A.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/12/2003 15:48 Comments ||
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"Bush administration officials also signaled support for a crackdown on the Islamic militant group Hamas, responsible for Wednesday's deadly suicide bus bombing in Jerusalem.
Bush had criticized Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon for trying to kill one of Hamas' leaders earlier this week -- drawing fire from some of Israel's staunch supporters, who defended the assassination attempt as part of Sharon's war on terrorism.
"The issue is Hamas. The terrorists are Hamas," White House spokesman Ari Fleischer told reporters traveling with Bush to Connecticut.
The administration also refrained on Thursday from criticizing Israel's lethal military response in Gaza to the bus bombing."
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 15:54 Comments ||
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#20
The Israelis have shown a great deal of restraint in dealing with terrorsts. I am sure that they could JDAM their way and be done, but they are trying to minimize collateral damage and casulties. Abbas is helpless. I am sure that he is hoping that Babywipes goes away. Someone is going to have to deal with Hamas. The only two will be the IDF and the US. Hamas has to go. We have played this game for years and it is a dead end.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/12/2003 16:06 Comments ||
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#21
The problem with Arabs is they not been shown the consequencies of failure. There are several reasons for this, not least oil. Israel is a liberal democracy and this limits the extent to which they can/will punish the paleos for not participating in win-win cooperation. However, each new suicide bombing pushes them closer to decisive action. And IMHO that must include bulldozing Hamas etc neighbourhoods and mass expulsions.
Posted by: Phil B ||
06/12/2003 16:07 Comments ||
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#22
aris - today an ij leader in jenin was killed by a sniper. yes there are clean killings. you dont hear as much about them, for obvious reasons.
#23
Dodo, I think we're way past the stage of sympathy for the Palestinians. As rock throwers during the first Intifada, there was some sympathy for them. As suicide bombers during the second Intifada, Palestinians are getting sympathy only from the media elite. (Palestinians, and Muslims generally, lost a lot of goodwill with their celebrations of 9/11. There are a lot of Americans who won't forget that anytime soon).
I stopped reading the New York Times when it started doing sympathetic profiles of suicide bombers. I think Israel could do a Dresden and not provoke much of a reaction, except among the journalists, who spend most of their time writing for each other, anyway.
#24
There was talk a couple of weeks ago, of Israel contemplating joining the EU
Bulldog,
Israel has been trying for a long time to become part of the European Common Market for obvious economical reasons. However, becoming a member of the EU is a different story altogether. First, I dont believe that the french will let this happen becuase that will cuase them difficulties with the arabs which they want to avoid at all cost. Second, while there may be clear economic advantages, I dont think Israel can give up it's political and millitary independence and agree to receive orders from a bunch of non-elected Eurocrats (especially not from Belgians;)).
Third, I personally think it may be a big mistake because I think Israel should rather follow the American economic model (which is already gradually being implemented)than the European more sociallistic model(we have been there and it doesn't work well IMHO).
I am also very worried about the long term stability of the EU when some of the biggest national entities in it are demographically close to 10% arabs, in a situation of negative population growth of the european part of the population. Just imagine Israel joining the EU and having to face a Sharia controlled France, Belgium, Holland,and maybe certain parts of the UK, in twenty years.
I would be very surprised if this (joining EU) happens anytime soon.
Posted by: The Dodo ||
06/12/2003 16:39 Comments ||
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Via Islam On Line -
Israel and the radical Palestinian group Hamas declared all-out war on each other today, promising more bloodshed after a Jerusalem bus bombing and retaliatory strikes on Gaza plunged the conflict into one of its most violent phases. The deadly exchange yesterday left 27 people dead and shattered hopes for implementing the US-sponsored peace plan that was launched last week at a summit in Aqaba, Jordan, convened by US President George W Bush. Israeli radio said the army had been ordered to "completely wipe out" Hamas, which claimed responsibility for the suicide bomber who killed 16 other people on a bus in central Jerusalem. The order was given after Israeli defence minister Shaul Mofaz met his generals, the radio said. It said everyone "from the lowliest member to Sheikh Ahmad Yassin", a Hamas founder and its spiritual guide, was a target. 'bout time
Two days after the army tried and failed to assassinate the group's top political leader Abdul Aziz al-Rantissi, Hamas was undeterred and returned Israel's declaration of war. As Gaza prepared to bury 10 Palestinians killed in helicopter strikes on Hamas militants, members of the group's armed wing toured the city calling on the population to attend the funerals and promising bloody revenge. "We will strike with martyrdom operations as soon as possible," shouted members of the Ezzedin al-Qassam Brigades.
"Grr! Don't I look fierce with this mask? Wanna see my gun? — Nope, nope! Can't touch it!"
Among the victims of last night's helicopter raids were two senior military figures of Hamas. One was said to have supervised the firing of rockets on Israel, while the other was one of the leading bombmakers. But senior Hamas leader Ismail Haniya said that "every Palestinian was a target" for Israel and charged that Israel's order to wipe out his movement was evidence that Prime Minister Ariel Sharon had failed his people. "This threat reveals the security and political crisis Sharon is facing because he has failed to crush the Palestinian intifada and bring security to his citizens," Haniya told AFP.
With the international peace "road map" moribund, despite unprecedented condemnations of the violence and ceasefire calls by Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and Prime Minister Mahmud Abbas, Washington looked like the only force capable of stopping the rot. Bush harshly condemned the bus bombing in Jerusalem, but he sparked an uproar in Congress with a milder scolding of Sharon over the timing of the strike on Rantissi. Sharon declared last night after the bus bombing on Jaffa street that he would "continue to fight relentlessly against terrorism", but insisted that the strikes were not a breach of the road map. "We are going to continue the political process to ensure peace and security," he added.
The Israeli cabinet was due to meet today to consider how to respond to the Jerusalem bombing. "It is Israel's duty to respond following the horrific attack in Jerusalem, but we have to avoid antagonising the Americans; we have to react in an intelligent way," justice minister Tommy Lapid said.
Arafat went live on Palestinian television to call for a ceasefire. "I call on all Palestinian factions to stop all military operations and shooting attacks against Israelis," he said, describing the Jerusalem bombing as a "terrorist act". After the strike on Rantissi, Hamas announced that truce talks were not on the agenda and appeared determined to step up suicide bombings. The wounded leader himself vowed "not to leave one Jew in Palestine". FoxNews says there were 4 more IDF strikes in Gaza this
AM, sounds like they've been saving intel for just a sweep like this. Hope they hit the right people
Posted by: Frank G ||
06/12/2003 09:17 am ||
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Hamas sez (borrowing a line from the movie "Stand by Me") "What are ya gonna do, shoot us all?" Israel sez to Hamas "No Ace, just you."
#2
Yassin's basically doing the human shield thing. Palestinians have gotten used to the idea that being in close proximity to a senior terrorist leader presents no threat to life or limb. It's time the Israelis disabused them of that notion. At the very least, we know that those who are near the terrorist leadership are their supporters, whereas the Israelis, foreign workers and tourists who are victims of suicide bombers just happened to be there.
#4
Yassin's whereabout are pretty well known. However, he is constantly surrounded by many, many people. Thus the collateral effects of taking him out are pretty big.
#5
Yassin's basically doing the human shield thing. Palestinians have gotten used to the idea that being in close proximity to a senior terrorist leader presents no threat to life or limb. It's time the Israelis disabused them of that notion. At the very least, we know that those who are near the terrorist leadership are their supporters, whereas the Israelis, foreign workers and tourists who are victims of suicide bombers just happened to be there.
#6
This type of action has been coming for a long time. The Israelis (or US) aught to do the same type of psy-ops they did in Iraq to get those who don't sympathize away from the targets. (or even assist with the targeting)
Yasser called Jeru a terrorist act, did he? Day late and a dollar short. It shouldn't save him.
Posted by: Scott ||
06/12/2003 12:40 Comments ||
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#7
"not to leave one Jew in palistine" Yup sounds like "land for peace" is really gonna work with these people. I wonder if the Israelis have any fuel air bombs in the inventory. Maybe it's time too let the parties involved settle this once and for all with out interference from the outside. Sure it will be bloody but will it be any worse than letting this go on for another 50 years at the minimum
Posted by: Someone who did NOT vote for William Proxmire ||
06/12/2003 12:44 Comments ||
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#8
Time to do a deep housecleaning, and send all the non-Israeli Arabs packing. Push them into the Sinai, into Lebanon, into Syria or Jordan, or into the Med. Do not leave one person behind. Make them dig up their dead and carry them out, too.
Forcing the Arabs to accept what they intend for Israel will go a long way toward ending the mess in the Middle East.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
06/12/2003 13:17 Comments ||
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#9
I am an Israely.
I used to vote for the Labor party and support the Oslo agreement and the "peace process".
NO MORE!!!!!!!!!!
I voted for Sharon this time!
I'm shocked and dissapointed by the blindness of president Bush. He does not truely understand the treachery and cunning of the fanatic islamists.
They take what he gives and continue the terror.
I think we are clearly headed for a bloody confrontation. The Israely citizens are getting tired of being slaughtered in the streets. What the fucking Hamas dont realize is that instead of despairing and giving up, we israelis will eventually unite and finally give them a taste of hell.
I dont know if we have air/fuel bombs but I'm now convinced that a large scale military action with thousands of dead Pali's may be the only way to bring them to their knees and stop the farce.
It's a shame but it's most probably unavoidable now.
Posted by: The Dodo ||
06/12/2003 13:34 Comments ||
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#10
To Dodo: I'm sure President Bush recognizes HAMAS for what it is. One problem is, at least through this week, the President believed in the assurances of the Arab leaders, Dept of State, etc. about their ability to put a lid on the terrorists. If the President can see past this nonsense, however, we reach a new problem. How does Israel deal with terrorists operating among innocents (and remember there are many Israeli agents and many non violent people among the Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank).
#11
Lying to the Infidels for tactical advantage is SOP in Muslim society, it's even considered a religous duty by some of the more whacked-out. So why the hell should we believe ANY of their promises?
Seek them out, and kill all you find. The ones that run away get to live.
#12
Hamas announced that truce talks were not on the agenda and appeared determined to step up suicide bombings. The wounded leader himself vowed "not to leave one Jew in Palestine"
Has anyone asked Abu Mazen if he'd care to reconsider his comment regarding Hamas? you know, the one that went, "there is no substitute for dialogue." He's right of course, but dialogue requires that both parties are capable of speaking the same language. The only language the subhuman Ham-ass-ers seem to speak is violence. Let the talks begin, yeah?
#13
Does anyone think that Hamas is shooting its wad and going for broke. We are seeing the power struggle between any moderates left and the Jihad Boys. This situation will not and cannot stay like it is. Hamas is either in or its gone. Only they just got a little whoop-ass back at them. If they are pursued now and taken down, maybe just maybe some resolution of the Paleo/Israeli conflict can be had.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
06/12/2003 16:44 Comments ||
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#14
To MHW : How does Israel deal with terrorists operating among innocents (and remember there are many Israeli agents and many non violent people among the Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank
Frankly, this is a real problem. If we stoop to their level and carpet bomb Gaza, we're no better than them. On the other hand, to judge from the way things are developing right now, I realy wonder whether we have not reached a situation in which it may be a good idea to kill 2-3K Pali's in order to avoid the future dying of tens of thousands of Pali's and Israeli's if we just let things escalate slowly.
Posted by: The Dodo ||
06/12/2003 17:02 Comments ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Frank e-mailed me this 
