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The Grand Turk | |
The Real Cost of Ejecting Turkey From the F-35 Program | |
2019-08-13 | |
What is off the table for sure is Turkey being ousted from NATO. The F-35 debacle, however, will likely result in Turkey being removed from key NATO military programs, missions and intelligence platforms as the deployment of the S-400 system is a direct threat to NATO's operational security. Even if Trump holds off in pressing ahead with sanctions in the immediate term, such delay is unlikely to continue. Independent of Turkey, countries such as China and Egypt are also interested in purchasing the S-400 system. If they are not disincentivized by making a clear example out of Turkey, it could open the floodgates and allow allies to buy weapons that are not manufactured by the United States. Congress isn't likely to tolerate or accept this. In the final analysis, the wider picture is clear: The loss of trust between the United States and Turkey is real and will be hard to soon reestablish in any substantive form. The question of whether the S-400s will actually be operational still stands, however. | |
Posted by:3dc |
#14 Re: #5 & #7: Could a nation involved a continual state of foreign conflict since the Korean War be offered as evidence, or is that purely coincidental? I read The Grand Strategy of the Roman Empire: From the First Century A.D. to the Third by Edward N. Luttwak. There are parallels in the Late Roman Republic to our current actions. The Republican Romans exercised "preemptive paranoid self-defense" by mobilizing farmer soldiers, marching out to trample someone, and then demobilizing back to their homes. As Rome became more powerful they just found themselves more and more things to be paranoid about and the citizen soldiers had to be replaced by full-time professionals to "police the territories". TL/DR: If you have a hammer you will develop an itch to go out and look for nails to bash... |
Posted by: magpie 2019-08-13 12:52 |
#13 What if the USA were following a policy to weaken Erdogan both politically and economically but one that does not break entirely with the Turkish polity, and thus the Turkish people? If Turkey is to return to secular style of Ataturk, the secularists are going to have to outbreed the religious citizens. Or we can wait a generation until the Kurds have become the majority. |
Posted by: trailing wife 2019-08-13 11:36 |
#12 The loss of trust between the United States and Turkey is real and will be hard to soon reestablish in any substantive form. As if I wasn't laughing hard enough yet, reading this article. Jah sure lost that lucrative Patriot AAM contract drawn up with China. 8,000 units if I remember right, built in our hidden factory outside Caracas. Its where all that sweet Venezuelan electricity is going towards. |
Posted by: swksvolFF 2019-08-13 10:58 |
#11 Who says that China or Egypt want the F-35? |
Posted by: BernardZ 2019-08-13 09:44 |
#10 Whatever, the real problem is letting the islamic dicktatter having them. |
Posted by: Woodrow 2019-08-13 09:41 |
#9 Yippy, can autocorrect |
Posted by: Frank g 2019-08-13 09:34 |
#8 Turkey under Hippy has not acted as an ally. Severe simply quit pretending |
Posted by: Frank g 2019-08-13 09:33 |
#7 The Berlin Blockade prompted the reestablishment of a peacetime draft and the commitment to being a world policeman that was fundamentally fatal to the old Constitution and the rise of a permanent 'Deep State'. The previous 'war' experiences were marked by demobilization and return to the antebellum economic-political-social relationships when the emergency was over. Its not like small frequent local military operations were unusual, just ask the natives on the frontier. However, that was done by a small volunteer force often starved of resources. Their most vexing international problem was the attitude of the Mexican government in allowing sanctuary to the 'opfor' to operate out from (things don't change a lot). |
Posted by: Procopius2k 2019-08-13 07:28 |
#6 And what if, for once, the USA is taking the long view and is implementing a pragmatic policy -- one that is determined to outlast Erdogan? Recall, his loss of Ankara and Istamboul in the recent election shows that his Party's base is diminishing. What if the USA were following a policy to weaken Erdogan both politically and economically but one that does not break entirely with the Turkish polity, and thus the Turkish people? |
Posted by: Chereting Pelosi1889 2019-08-13 07:22 |
#5 Ref #4: US government is run for the benefit of weapons dealers. Could a nation involved a continual state of foreign conflict since the Korean War be offered as evidence, or is that purely coincidental? Perhaps an examination of just the previous eighteen years would provide a more contemporary sampling. |
Posted by: Besoeker 2019-08-13 05:13 |
#4 "allow allies to buy weapons that are not manufactured by the United States." You know, I used to ridicule leftists for saying shit like the US government is run for the benefit of weapons dealers. But fuck, you could not be clearer here. How dare they lose their sales! The US government is taking actions to directly benefit them. |
Posted by: Herb McCoy 2019-08-13 04:49 |
#3 So sell them F35s at inflated rates and have Lockheed introduce extra sensitivity in the fly-by-wire system. Add in the hypoxia inducing oxygen delivery. Roll your eyes and ♪whistle when they crash them all over Ankara. |
Posted by: Dron66046 2019-08-13 03:01 |
#2 The analysis seems to miss the point that |
Posted by: magpie 2019-08-13 01:59 |
#1 what a thumbsucker of an analysis the truth is Turkey doesn't really need the F-35 or the S-400 as no major power threatens them militarily the principal threats to Turkey are - Erdogan himself, - ISIS, al Q, the PKK, maybe a few others The F-35 doesn't protect against any of these if and when Iran gets nukes and can strap them to a missile, that would be a threat also but even then the F-35 doesn't help and neither does the S-400 |
Posted by: lord garth 2019-08-13 00:12 |