You have commented 339 times on Rantburg.

Your Name
Your e-mail (optional)
Website (optional)
My Original Nic        Pic-a-Nic        Sorry. Comments have been closed on this article.
Bold Italic Underline Strike Bullet Blockquote Small Big Link Squish Foto Photo
Submit your comments on this article
Six Years: The limits of attention span
2007-09-11
On September 12th, 2001, Mickey Kaus wrote that
Media coverage of the 9/11 attack often emphasizes that it will be a "long time before America gets back to normal," etc. The opposite is likely to be closer to the truth -- we'll get back to normal all too quickly... I suspect the story will be off the evening news by Thanksgiving -- a denial, in a warped way, of the attackers' disruptive goal.
Kaus was wrong, but not by that much. By November, Konduz was about to fall, Johnny Jihad about to be captured, and Tora Bora was a month in the future. Our shattered nation wasn't to turn its attention back to utter bullsquat for at least another three months, when Britney's bosom began to edge out all that obscure stuff in Afghaniland and places like that. It wasn't until April, 2002, that Afghanistan, the Taliban, and al-Qaeda dropped off the front pages of America's major newspapers for the first time - I was watching for it at the time, wondering how long it would take to see a front page without an Afghanistan story. Kaus was right about the phenomenon, wrong about the window.

The public can't really be faulted for their lack of attention span. I may have pointed out in these pages a time or two in the past six years that the biggest mistake the Bush administration has made has been not reminding the public each and every day of why we're at war with Islamism and what the consequences will be if we lose. After a brief period of national cohesion, politix reverted to the "as usual" conditions that represent its natural state. The solid, apparently insoluble core of opposition to everything this country tries to do and everything it stands for was still there, still in business at the same old stand all along: ANSWER, Ramsey Clark, Chomsky, Howard Zinn, and all the allies they've picked up along the way. The day the bombing began in Afghanistan they were in the streets protesting. Since then, they've run an unrelenting campaign of propaganda against the war. They aren't precisely on the side of the Islamists. They're merely against anything the United States does. Winning the war to preserve Western civilization in their eyes would enhance our position; therefore we must be stopped. All civilizations, after all, are equally valid in their eyes.

Gen. Petraeus testified today. I'm on five or six talking points mailing lists, and the memes were pretty crude:
  • Former RNC Chair Directs Petraeus' Surge Spin out of WH Political Shop
  • General Seen as Playing Politics, Lacking Credibility
  • Advisory 10:45 AM at Capitol: WH Iraq Dog and Pony Show
  • DonÂ’t Send Our Kids to Fight an Endless War
  • GOP in Meltdown over Iraq: Endless War Republicans “Welcomed” Back to Washington with More Ads and Political Pressure
  • The White House Iraq Dog and Pony Show
In the days to come we can expect more elaboration on these themes - this take is a single day's email. The theme is "endless war," war than can be ended at any time by action on our part. The action depends on us, not on the other side. The complaints about "endless war" come a mere two days after Binny explained it all for us: Convert or die.

After six years the public's tired. The Fat Lady's voice isn't overtaxed in this war. The headlines look much the same from day to day, week to week, or worse. Last year's headlines could for the most part fit on today's pages: Binny's still in Pakistain; Hamas is still rejecting; the Talibs are still burning their cannon fodder at a rate of 40-50 a day, their supply apparently inexhaustible. Two years ago Jaafari was Iraq's PM and he was ordering all-out attacks on insurgent strongholds. 5,000 Iraqi and 3,500 US troops were sweeping Tal Afar. The year before that Beslan was till fresh and raw.

The progress is there, but usually the public misses it, or misses the significance of it. Worse, the gains are often tenuous, easily reversed, or false alarms. Today the Taliban say they want to negotiate. If true, the end of year after grinding year of war could be in sight for that poor country. Or it could be another false alarm, a false start, the same sort of deal the Talibs across the border worked with Perv and ISI. Hekamatyar, recall, declared a ceasefire a couple months ago. Today he's refusing to talk to the Karzai government unless all the troops are withdrawn from Afghanistan and he gets to rocket Kabul again.

The war's not ours to end. We can stop fighting tomorrow, withdraw our troops, bring them home, demobilize them. It won't change things. Bin Laden declared war on us in 1998, long before we declared war on him. Our not fighting back won't change his course unless we surrender and buy turbans, our women to wear sacks, our culture to vanish, our children to be devoted to jihad.

If we stop fighting now, we'll start up again in a year, five years, ten years. It's a pay-me-now, pay-me-later kind of world. A cowardly United States, hiding behind its borders, trying to conceal itself in its cloak of multiculturalism, will invite the follow-ons to 9-11-01, and the next time the scale of the attack against us will be greater. And having retreated, having shown the white feather, our response and the support it will receive worldwide will be weaker.
Posted by:Fred

#68  No anger. I don't have the energy for anger. I did that day and the days that followed, and for fear, and grief. But anger faded, and simple determination remains. That much I will always have energy for: we will win, even at the sacrifice of our own souls, that our children and our children's children shall remain free.

I realize that I won't contribute much to the actual struggle. But I've already made my decision. I own the result as much as those who pull triggers and those who aim them.
Posted by: trailing wife   2007-09-11 23:06  

#67  vomit
Posted by: 3dc   2007-09-11 23:02  

#66  I don't know whether to laugh or cry or vomit.
Posted by: Seafarious   2007-09-11 22:54  

#65  PBS has chosen to commemorate this day with a rousing Pallywood production ... Gaza ER
Posted by: Seafarious   2007-09-11 22:51  

#64  I was at work with a vendor when the news came of the second tower getting hit. I escorted the vendor off the worksite, then watched with growing anger for the rest of the day. I knew some canadians, and they were pretty calloused by the next day.

I've often thought about that rapid change from "oh so sorry!" to "get over it!". It was obvious that they simply could not accept the fact that such a thing could deeply hurt americans, as if we had no business caring that damn much about our fellow citizens. At the same time, I felt they kinda knew that we DID hurt deeply, and were therefore terrified that we'd go postal. I think they took their cues from the media, who tried their damnedest to not show any photos from 9/11, and objected mightily if any third party tried to show them in the major media.

I came to the conclusion, today, on 9/11/07, that very few non-americans truly understand how we feel about 9/11/01, and that the few who DO. are more worthy of being Americans than 3/4ths of the Democratic Congressmen now sitting, and half of the constituents who voted for them.

I kinda think we're still in shock at some very deep level that keeps us from getting our hands around it, trying to make heads and tails both of it, and of how we're treated because we're still moved to rage or tears about it.

All I know is that the Muslims seem to be getting the sympathy from non-americans that we deserve. It also seems those muslims are getting that respect because the givers know that if they don't, there'll be hell to pay.
Posted by: Ptah   2007-09-11 21:58  

#63  Dr. Steve can concur or deny, but IIUC, oftentimes during extreme stress, an opportunistic herpetic or viral outbreak can manifest itself, hence Aris reappears. Don't make him the focal point, he's not worth it. My attention span is not limited by comfort nor anti-war nausea. Keep after them, kill the Taliban and AQ by the scores, daily, if not hourly. Empty the madrassahs into our gunsights, Send the IRGC to die anonymously in Iraq and Lebanon. We WILL prevail with terrible shredding deaths for our enemies. The "strong horse" is us!
Posted by: Frank G   2007-09-11 21:46  

#62  I woke a little early and after breakfast and dressing, hit the computer, just Drudge to see if anything salacious happened. I saw a plane had hit the WTC. Pity. Terrible accident.

I then took the "kids" for a walk. On the way back, a neighbor said "you heard the news?"

"Oh, yeah. Bad accident. What kind of plane was it?"

"It was no accident. A second plane hit the other tower."

"Um. Gotta go!"

We ran back and I hit the news pages. Damn.

I drove in to work. Now, this was the day of the month that the local idiotarians protest outside of work. Usually we just wave, or toss out the after cleaning up after the kids on the walk (never hit any of them. Pity). They weren't there that day. I suspect they had the minimal intelligence to realize it might be dangerous.

When I got into work, some of the other people were there, talking, of course. I went past them into the factory. I stood there for a few minutes blessing the "product." When I got back, I told them. Some of them went and did the same thing. Too bad we weren't allowed to write messages on them.
Posted by: Gary and the Samoyeds   2007-09-11 21:24  

#61  Monsieur Katsaris

Last time you came here you began counting Muslim and Christian genocides (putting Nazi and similar atheistic movements in The Christian side) except that in two minites I found hald a dozen Muslim genocides you "forgot". One of them the cleansing of Pontus Greeks around 1955.

Just for that you deserve the collabo word.

But in fact you are evan worse. You want to show how tolerant you are and wide minded you are by supporting a muderous ideology. But in fact jsut like the Vietnam-era protesters you couldn't care less about the people. They arte just toys for yopur little games. I do. I acre not only about the non-Muslims living living under Islamic opressionj but about also about Muslims. About the woman who is beaten and raped by her husband, about the boy who is brainwashed for becoming a suicide bomber, about the enslaved Blacks, about those who don't get decent instruction, about the Bengla-deshi servants and camel jockeys raped in Saudi Arabia, about those who die from polio because a lunatic has said vaccination was haram, about the misery and ignorance who accompany Islam wherever it goes. I want them free of it. The differtnce betwen you and me is that for me they are humans and for you they are just expendable toys.

I would spit on you again but you would soil my saliva.
Posted by: JFM   2007-09-11 19:20  

#60  Hey, msg, I not as eloquent as some, lol!
Posted by: rhodesiafever   2007-09-11 19:02  

#59  Eloquently put, o yee who has the fever in Rhodesia.

"They can all fuck off and die". Classic.
Posted by: mcsegeek1   2007-09-11 18:46  

#58  He also said that three muslims who worked there that were cutting up, jabbering, and laughing about 911 during this moment of silence.

This is what "parking lot therapy" was invented to treat.
Posted by: Zenster   2007-09-11 18:45  

#57  From a a Rhodesian point of veiw, they can all fuck off and die, including that sack sack of shit, Aris. He come back and tell me I'm bad.

'kin wanker.
Posted by: rhodesiafever   2007-09-11 18:14  

#56  He also said that three muslims who worked there that were cutting up, jabbering, and laughing about 911 during this moment of silence.

I once believed that Americans would never tolerate such offense. I've since learned that not only will some "Americans" (in name only) tolerate such behavior, many will *encourage* it as well.

In a better world, it would not be so.
Posted by: Crusader   2007-09-11 17:37  

#55  A guy called into a local talk show today and said that where he worked they had a moment of silence. He also said that three muslims who worked there that were cutting up, jabbering, and laughing about 911 during this moment of silence. There is no redemption for this cult of hate, evil, and death.
Posted by: JohnQC   2007-09-11 17:25  

#54  We can only become the villains in this story, as we have over the last 6 years. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't no matter what choices we make.

So be it. Islam simply will NOT have it any other way. If this is to be a struggle to the death, then let history record us as the surviving villain.
Posted by: Zenster   2007-09-11 17:19  

#53  The MAD doctrine still applies, I think. The problem is that it is being applied in a different manner these days.

The Islamofascists seek to destroy us utterly using what the Chinese call "non-conventional" means. The Islamofascists believe that they can bring down our way of life by way of suicide bombs and the sacrifice of thousands of their young men and women against our troops. They literally have no concept of just how deadly non-conventional warfare can truly be.

We, on the other hand, have the capability to literally wipe from existence a substantial portion of the planetary population. Not by use of thousands of our young men and women, though we would rather sacrifice those lives than bow to the truth of the matter - or the possible necessity, but via the use of weapons with which the world has no recent memory or familiarity. The Islamofacsists simply have no experience and thus no concept of just how nasty the weapons in our arsenal are.

In addition, they believe we are too weak, culturally, mentally, religiously, and psychologically, to use every weapon in our arsenal against them. They are absolutely convinced that we will never respond to them with the strength and will which we eventually must demonstrate if we are to survive.

We are caught in a MAD Catch-22. We have the capability to destroy Islam and Islamofascism ultimately and completely such that it will never be a force to threaten the free world ever again. They have the capability to cause us such small hurts that we will spend enormous amounts of blood and treasure trying to defend ourselves from their mosquito bites, destroying our own society and culture in the process.

We can only become the villains in this story, as we have over the last 6 years. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't no matter what choices we make.

If we are remain free, we must be willing to take the war to the enemy in any way, shape, form, and manner possible. We must become cunning, stealthy, cold-blooded, and ultimately fearsomely and fiercely ruthless.

In short, we must become wolves.

The world needs to learn to fear us, to trust us to do what we say we will and back up those statements with the most ruthless of force and the most fearsome of weapons. We have demonstrated that we can be the most merciful, the most compassionate, and the most self-sacrificing nation on the planet. That has gained us allies - and enemies.

Our enemies must learn.

We must become wolves.



Posted by: FOTSGreg   2007-09-11 16:47  

#52  The left are my enemy, I shall not rest. Islam is the devil's work and it stands as proof that Jesus knew we had to fight a lifetime against the temptations of the devil. The left are headed to hell arm in arm with Islam. I would gladly speed them along, all of them, I have no more patience, bomb Iran now. I care not about saving their souls, I care only about our souls.
Posted by: wxjames   2007-09-11 15:45  

#51  I don't know about you, but the biggest surprise to me is that I still feel such anger. It has waned occasionally, but it always comes back, white hot.

If anything, my anger has increased with the intervening years. Just one look at this thread's graphic of the WTC and a searing rage takes hold of me. As I have learned—with deepest thanks to Fred and Rantburg—more about Islam and kept abreast of all its other atrocities, the above image signifies only one thing to me: The Death of Islam.

The 9-11 atrocities must be regarded as the beginning of the end for Islam. While Bali, London and Madrid were all horrific, only Beslan carried forward a similarly evil message. Beslan cemented my determination that Islam must perish.

There has been absolutely nothing to change this perception in the past six years. No crowds of Muslims protesting every new terrorist atrocity, no mass expulsions of jihadis from congregations, no large group arrests of terror plotters from Muslim informers. Not one single indication that the ummah—as a whole—is revolted by such hideous evil.

Yes I'm angry that many of those responsible for 9/11 are still sucking oxygen, including Bin Laden. Yes, I'm angry toward the left, which has been exposed as nothing but a bunch of America hating traitors.

Just as with the Nazis—sadly, less so with communism—Islamic terrorism has provided a properly polarizing lens with which to view the American political sphere. The democratic party and a vast majority of its followers have revealed within themselves such a deep and abiding hatred for everything America has achieved—even as they enjoy these hard-earned fruits—that many of them are rapidly forfeiting their rights to citizenship.

However important it is to address Islamic terrorism, an emerging horizon of internal collaboration with our enemies has begun to assume a new and unexpected urgency. As a patriotic citizen of the USA I am beginning to view this division as not being between Americans but between Americans and America's enemies.

But I'm also angry at the passivism and forgetfulness that's so common among average Americans. How could you have gone into the voting booth and punched a ticket for Pelosi, Reid and their ilk if you had even one iota of 9/11 anger remaining in your thoughts?

Evidently, such people do not have any of that "anger" remaining in their thoughts, that is, unless it's directed at America. Far too many Americans have forgotten the lessons of World War II. This is made even more stupefying in light of the numerous and glaring parallels between Nazism and Islam.

How is it that the muzzies can have such long, uninterrupted, unswerving hatred toward us, always keeping their goal in sight, while we on the other hand lapse into a state of apathy so profound that it renders invisible the traitors in our midst?

Simply put: We have it too easy. This is why each passing day makes it more apparent that another even more heinous atrocity on American soil will be required before our population awakens to the danger of Islam.

The ummah is able to maintain its focus and hatred precisely because Muslims know damn well that America and America alone can defeat and destroy Islam. Islam is the implaccable foe of liberty, individual freedom, democracy, free enterprise, religious freedom and everything that has made America great.

While not enough Americans appreciate this singularly important fact, a huge number of Muslims do and that knowledge drives jihad. I continue to thank the goodness of America's military leadership that it has armed our country with such fine soldiers and an arsenal that—in a single day's time—can resolve this entire issue. We have shown admirable restraint in the face of endless terrorist provocation. Soon enough that restraint will be exhausted by yet another Muslim atrocity and then Islam will be no more. Only then will accounts for the 9-11 atrocity be properly settled.
Posted by: Zenster   2007-09-11 15:44  

#50  Aris, your comments about an axis of Eastern Orthodox + Islam is simply niave. Greece and the Balkands were Islamic nations once and as far as the Islamic world is concerned will be again. Any peace between the two would be like the Hitler Stalin pact, a peace just long enough for each side to sharpen their knives and stab.

That would at least get the Eastern Orthodox nations into the war in a serious way, something many are reluctant to do because they prefer to ignore the problem and let the US do the heavy lifting.

To be honest the Greeks should be building up their military and drawing up plans (political and military) to retake Constantinople and a dozen islands off the Turkish coast because at some point the Turks are gonna turn sour and Greece will be on the front lines (yeah I know, but even more so).
Posted by: rjschwarz   2007-09-11 15:30  

#49  I was dropping off some marketing pieces to a real estate company. The receptionist wasn't at her desk, so I took a couple of extra steps into the entry way and could see her watching a television set in the adjacent conference room.

She motioned me in and explained what (little) she knew at the time. I remember being confused at the time--wondering how such an "accident" could take place. I watched the tentative coverage in that office for perhaps 15 minutes, and then went to my office. When I got to my office, my soon to be ex-wife called complaining that she had been "worried" about me (never-minding the fact that she hadn't worried about me at all for much of the previous year). The rest of the day is rather foggy until the evening.

That evening I watched as much television as I could stand. Even at that moment, the "spin" was already beginning--Peter Jennings said several times the equivalent of "we don't know who's behind this and shouldn't draw any conclusions yet". Although largely ignorant of world politics at that time, something about him saying that and how often he did so really bothered me.

I started my own informal "get educated about the world around me" process the next morning. To this day it burns me that the leftist media would have preferred to keep me ignorant of such matters.
Posted by: Crusader   2007-09-11 14:51  

#48  I was attending a class in Arlington, VA. The site manager came in and told us that two planes had hit the WTC and one had hit the Pentagon. After that, nobody was paying attention, so the instructor called for a long lunch break until 2 pm. I went back to my hotel room and called my wife to tell her I was OK. After that I just watched CNN running the same tape over and over of the towers falling. I was sure that there would be tens of thousands dead. Later, I went over to the Iwo Jima memorial, where I could see the smoke from the Pentagon. It gave me a very weird feeling - I was stationed at the Pentagon right after Navy OCS in 1970.
Posted by: Rambler   2007-09-11 14:36  

#47  Fellow RB'ers, I don't know about you, but the biggest surprise to me is that I still feel such anger. It has waned occasionally, but it always comes back, white hot.

Yes I'm angry that many of those responsible for 9/11 are still sucking oxygen, including Bin Laden. Yes, I'm angry toward the left, which has been exposed as nothing but a bunch of America hating traitors.

But I'm also angry at the passivism and forgetfulness that's so common among average Americans. How could you have gone into the voting booth and punched a ticket for Pelosi, Reid and their ilk if you had even one iota of 9/11 anger remaining in your thoughts?

How is it that the muzzies can have such long, uninterrupted, unswerving hatred toward us, always keeping their goal in sight, while we on the other hand lapse into a state of apathy so profound that it renders invisible the traitors in our midst?
Posted by: mcsegeek1   2007-09-11 14:29  

#46  Ignoring the static that Aris has interjected, on that fateful day, we were carpooling to work and the radio, volume turned down low mentioned something about an airplane hitting a building in NYC. my first thought was that it was a replay of the 1945 B-25 hitting the empire state building due to weather (see the book'the sky is falling') if only that were the case. all i want to see now is the sky fall on all those responsible for this new world we are living in, and also on those that refuse to recognize that this is a fight to the death.
Posted by: USN, Ret.   2007-09-11 14:17  

#45  OK, folks. Let's not let Aris (directly or as a topic) take over our 9/11 threads. Aim your cold fury (or hot anger) at those who threaten our way of life.

And Aris - a reminder. After not being here for a very long while you chose to stomp into this community's gathering place and piss around where others are grieving. Not very classy and not very persuasive.

Also, not tolerated for a single more comment of that tone or type.

Roger that, all?
Posted by: lotp   2007-09-11 14:15  

#44  Aris, are you a full, total Greek? You know what I mean.
Posted by: Jack is Back!   2007-09-11 13:59  

#43  groan. What a twit.

Here Aris, since you are going to give it a rest, I tell you what I'll do for you. About every five minutes, I post a summary of what you would have posted yourself.

Americans and Christians are poopy faces. I am superior to you. Love, Aris


And to any poster who disagrees, I'll post over and over and over again,
"I know you are but what am I, Love Aris " .

There, your job is done. Have a nice day.
Posted by: Unutle McGurque8861   2007-09-11 13:29  

#42  Rob, this is not *that* thread, so perhaps I'm only half the asshole you think I am.

But if the whole day is inappropriate for such -- ok, no more comments or replies from me today.

swksvolFF, just FYI the vast majority of ancient Greek temples were destroyed not by Muslims but by the Christians of Byzantium-- Parthenon itself survived that phase (merely turned into a Christian church instead) merely because the residents of Athens went up in arms to defend it from demolition.

And I don't believe the recent fires here were random. I think them an act of political (though non-Islamic) terrorism. But that's a different topic.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2007-09-11 12:55  

#41  Greece has had its share of 'the next great threat approaching from over the horizon', and has had its battles where few stood against many. This one seems to have either understood, forgiven, or forgotten that not too long ago certain neighbors became occupiers and stored gunpowder inside of some of Greece's anceint temples and birthrights. Please don't play with the one who fancies himself both a god and master baiter - he has plenty to do putting out the random fires which are popping up in his part of the world.
As someone who also had family in New York a block away, and another who worked in the Pentegon, this Aris figure only assures me that this act of hate and aggression should be placed into our collective generational memories.
Posted by: swksvolFF   2007-09-11 12:05  

#40  Aris, FOAD. You're trying to score points on a thread about memories of 9-11, and you're doing it by attacking people.

I don't know what image you have of yourself in your own mind -- likely you believe you're a brave, honest, compassionate man who wants nothing but what's best in the world -- but you're acting like one of the world's biggest assholes.
Posted by: Rob Crawford   2007-09-11 11:46  

#39  Aris: today is not the day to needle us here at the Burg. Maybe tomorrow. Not today.

AoS.
Posted by: Steve White   2007-09-11 11:35  

#38  I don't have a great deal of patience with parrying on this day--my inclination is to go for the jugular and rip out the throat.
Posted by: JohnQC   2007-09-11 11:21  

#37  I don't have any Saudi or Paki friends -- the Reagan administration had several Iranian friends though judging by how it twice sold weapons to them (just after the hostage situation, and in the Iran-Contra scandal), why not begin with them?

Read the following sites and make your own mind up
http://www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com/
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,480240,00.html

Saudi spread hatred world wide.Them,Pakistan(their operations HQ) and Iran will be sorted in due course God Willing!!!!


Posted by: Paul   2007-09-11 10:35  

#36  Aris, I was writing my comment when you posted your comment #33, and I would like to say that I too would prefer to see Greece allied with the West and not dragged into some whacked-out Iran/Russia axis.

Greece *is* the West.
Posted by: Seafarious   2007-09-11 10:32  

#35  Aris, you're being a twit. And worse than a twit - you are deliberately seeking to cause pain on a solemn day for us. Leave off or be filtered out yet again .... this is not the day for it.

No second warnings. Not today.
Posted by: lotp   2007-09-11 10:31  

#34  Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union did not just decide to reform themselves on a whim. It took a substantial application of military, financial, and political power to convince them to change their ways.

As it will be with resurgent Islam.

And probably even now there's some idea germinating somewhere, sheltering safely away under the chaos of our current enthusiasms, an idea that will be the next Threat To Civilization As We Know It.

But knowing those old threats don't exist (altho Soviet Russia doesn't seem to be quite as dead as we thought, and hey, happy Conception Day, Russkies!), and knowing that other threats will arise in time, we are not free to ignore the current realities and pretend that we are not in dire peril.
Posted by: Seafarious   2007-09-11 10:25  

#33  Barbara, I *hope* that the islamonazis come against Greece, because my main fear is that the axis of global war will be Eastern Orthodox nations (like Russia, Serbia, Armenia and Greece) allied with the islamofascisms and *against* the democracies of the West.

Remember that Russia and Armenia have already allied themselves with Iran in more than one occassion. And Greece is in the Kremlin's pocket.

So yeah, islamonazis fighting against Greece is one of the better options IMO, as my worse fear is Greece and islamonazis fighting side-by-side.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2007-09-11 10:23  

#32  I don't have any Saudi or Paki friends -- the Reagan administration had several Iranian friends though judging by how it twice sold weapons to them (just after the hostage situation, and in the Iran-Contra scandal), why not begin with them?
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2007-09-11 10:18  

#31  Aris, those two, while certainly not complimentary, were nations to which MAD applied.

That's where the analogy breaks down.
Posted by: Mike N.   2007-09-11 10:17  

#30  Aris - when the islamonazis come for Greece - and they will - we'll be happy to sit at our computers a half a world away and return your "favors." For now, go play in traffic with your mirror.

Never forget. Never forgive. Never "understand."

And remember that paybacks are hell....
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut   2007-09-11 10:17  

#29  Aris

Not a good day to wind people up!There is no compulsion in Religion(Koran).Spread that message to your Saudi and Paki friends who want a global Caliphate!!!!!
Posted by: Paul   2007-09-11 10:14  

#28  Well, that sure puts me in my place and shows me the error of my ways, anonymous person.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2007-09-11 10:01  

#27  The first report I heard of the WTC destruction, noted that there could be as many as 20,000 casualties. That was credible for quite some time. Accurate head counts were not made until companies used off site payroll company records to verify survivals and lost persons. Even then there was the problem of accounting for visitors to the buildings.
Posted by: McZoid   2007-09-11 09:57  

#26  What exactly annoyed you?

that you are an idiot who thinks yourself to be clever.
Posted by: Unutle McGurque8861   2007-09-11 09:53  

#25  Well honestly, Excalibur, "equivalence" with the Nazi Germany, or the Soviet Union, or with Coptic Christians supporting FGM, isn't exactly a compliment, so I still don't see why you are so annoyed.

But you may keep on spitting. I wish you had it clear in your minds why you are doing so, though, you seem to be very very confused about that.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2007-09-11 09:50  

#24  What exactly annoyed you?

My comparison between the threat of Islam and the threat of Germany/the Soviet Union?

Or my idea that Islam isn't any more of a "final ultimate threat" than those two turned out to be?
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2007-09-11 09:47  

#23  Aris: He is spitting at you. So am I.

No equivalence. No excuses. And one day, by God, no evil trolls.
Posted by: Excalibur   2007-09-11 09:46  

#22  You are such an annoyance. Don't you have a mirror to go play with and leave the adults alone?
Posted by: Unutle McGurque8861   2007-09-11 09:43  

#21  "The world will be safe when islam is gone."

Didn't the word "The Germans" or "The Russians" use to exist in sentences like that, instead of "Islam"? Up to very recently ago?

Unfortunately even after the very last living Germans and Russians were eradicated off the face of the world, the world still isn't safe it seems.

The world has lots of times been "unsafe" without the Islam being involved at all (I am kinda thinking of the Napoleonic Wars, of World War I, World War II, The Cold War, etc, etc) and I'm guessing it will find many new threats even if you could click your fingers and make Islam magically go away.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2007-09-11 09:22  

#20  JFM, are you calling those Ethiopian Christian priests "collaborators" and spitting on them? If so, I indeed agree that they're collaborators of evil and spitworthy.

If not, I somehow fail to understand the justification of your comment.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2007-09-11 09:13  

#19  The world will be safe when islam is gone.
Posted by: JohnQC   2007-09-11 09:00  

#18  Aris

I have a word for you: Collabo!

(Spit).
Posted by: JFM   2007-09-11 08:13  

#17  i agree sherry, Bush has reminded the nation that we are war with islam many a times and it is the likes of CNN and other MSM that are too scared too air that WE are at war with islam and noit just a few terrorist. In my opinion we should round up muslims like we did the japsnese in WW2 and ship their asses back too the middle east or there for the first time too make their lifetime pilgrimage.Blame the dems for not being reminded every day since they want too kisss their asses like nothing never happened until the spotlight is on them at a memeorial service today. they only remember once a year.
Posted by: sinse   2007-09-11 07:52  

#16  Bush does, indeed, bear some measure of responsibility for this country's limited attention span. From his January 11, 2007 address to the troops at Fort Benning:
"On September the 11th, our nation saw firsthand the destructive vision of a new kind of enemy, and once again the men and women of Fort Benning answered the call to protect our country from that enemy. You know, I knew that right after the attacks, the American psyche being what it is, people would tend to forget the grave threat posed by these people. I knew that. As a matter of fact, I was hoping that would happen so that life would go on. But the fortunate thing for this country is that those who wear the uniform have never forgotten the threat. You understand the stakes."
Bad move. VERY bad. For people will forget, especially when you invite them to. And when they forget, they lose their sense of purpose and their resolve as well.

As we have.

Posted by: Dave D.   2007-09-11 07:31  

#15  I lowered my flag to half staff this morning. Then I thought about the article yesterday on the difference between the liberal mind, able to adapt to ambiguity and complexity, and the rigid conservative mind. I guess it's those adaptable liberal minds that have figured out how to 'understand' (rationalize) the 9-11 attacks, and my poor rigid conservative mind just thinks back six years and builds renewed anger. Not anger at architects or airlines or politicians or police. Anger at these Islamist b**tards who came into my country and blew up my people. This anger may be unhealthy for me, and is certainly un-Christian, but I am not even close to turning my back and (mentally) walking away. To me that's a rationalization of cowardice, an unwillingness to confront evil. My unadaptable brain wants to face down evil and KILL IT.
Posted by: Glenmore   2007-09-11 07:13  

#14  A memory I carry from that week took place on Friday Sept. 14th. It was the memorial ceremony at the National Cathedral in Washington.

At the end of the ceremony the congregation stood and sang The Battle Hymn of the Republic. I had goose bumps on my arms and tears in my eyes.

The emotions I felt then and there were primal. NOW WE MOBILIZE FOR WAR.

When looking back I recall learning there never was a "we" in the sense of a country completely united and undivided. And there was never a "mobilization for war" in the way there was after Pearl Harbor.

And this day still - today - still fills me with an empty sadness.
Posted by: Mark Z   2007-09-11 06:57  

#13  Never forgive. Some of our then-new-to-us neighbors were on duty in Manhattan that day, as police and fire fighters and EMTs. Some didn't come home.

Never forget. Our daughter was working a few blocks from the towers when the planes hit. It took terribly slow hours until we heard 2nd hand that she was alive, and over 24 hrs until we could speak to her.

Never forget. We had friends serving that day in the wing of the Pentagon that was hit.

Never 'understand'. Oh, I understand -- the real causes and the real danger. Which is why I do not forgive or forget.
Posted by: lotp   2007-09-11 06:13  

#12  I took pictures of Brooklyn from the WTC in 1991, and still get shivers when the 9-11 videos are shown. I never favored re-building because I feel it would be like setting up the target again.

Fred mentions multi-culturalism. Prior to 9-11, TV wrestling was able to run story lines involving characters like the "Iron Sheik" (a fake Arab, I think). Unindicted co-conspirators like CAIR and the ISNA are now so powerful that producing anything that might demean Muslims is unthinkable.
Posted by: McZoid   2007-09-11 05:20  

#11  Yeah, this war could be over pretty quickly, GET IN THERE AND HANDLE IRAN!

Please dont forget ALSO those Saudi and Paki bastards who are behind 9/11!!!!!.Ideology and funding is by Saudi, operations heartland is in Pakistan

Recommend read for everyone!!!!!
http://www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com/


Posted by: Paul   2007-09-11 05:13  

#10  "Stoning? Beheading?"

I didn't know you were so opposed to the death penalty.

And as for Female Genital Mutilation, I certainly agree with you regarding its barbarism, however third-world Christians do it as much as Muslims do -- e.g. I am reading that in Ethiopia "Some Coptic Christian priests refuse to baptize girls who have not undergone one of the procedures."

http://www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/rep/crfgm/10098.htm
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2007-09-11 04:45  

#9  the WOT > ALSO A WAR TO THE DEATH.

Rarely have you been so right, Joe. This one is for all the marbles. This is not a clash of civilizations, it the the collision of civilization with barbarity. Islam has preordained that one or the other must perish.

Anyone who doubts this needs to ask themselves what part of Islamic tradition should be preserved. Stoning? Beheading? Female Genital Mutilation? Theocracy? Abject Gender Apartheid? Prohibition? Terrorism? Genocide? Sexual Child Abuse? Slavery? Unequal Rights? Mandatory Religious Observance?

Doesn't any single one of these practices exclude a culture from inclusion in the circle of humanity? Again, what part of Islamic tradition should be preserved?
Posted by: Zenster   2007-09-11 04:23  

#8  The world including the USA will never be "normal" again. WOT > WAR FOR ANTI-US OWG-SWO, and the only way for the USA-West to keep its values identity freedoms and sovereignty, etc. is to win becuz the WOT > ALSO A WAR TO THE DEATH.
Posted by: JosephMendiola   2007-09-11 03:39  

#7  September 12 I went to give blood, waited in a long line and was eventually dismissed 'cos they had no use for more blood that day. There were only bodies and healthy survivors. While on line, a friend read NYT's excellent coverage of the death of the Towers, and I read the September 2001 issue of Reader's Digest. Which just happened to have a long article on the execution of Timothy McVeigh.

It occurred to me that day that Tim McV would be a useful person to ask a few more questions of.
Posted by: Seafarious   2007-09-11 02:35  

#6  I'll never forget that day. I liken it to being at Pearl Harbor.

I was driving to work from our apartment at 3rd and C NE on Capitol Hill to my job in Herndon (near Dulles airport). I was running late since I was still a bit jetlagged from a family trip. It was a beautiful day and I had the top down on my convertible. I was still on the road when I heard Robin Quivers (on the Howard Stern show) mention that a plane hit the WTC, then excitedly interjected that a 2nd plane did as well. Being a bit of a geopolitical geek and immediately knew what happened.

After yelling F*** Al Queda to the air around me, I switched to a news station and speed-dialed my wife to tell her to turn on the TV. She did and told me the severity of the damage (i.e. jets not prop planes). I assumed she'd stay home but did not confirm. She had been in London for IRA bombings and at the WTC complex in 1993 so she just figured it was the same and, showing her stiff upper lip, went into her job accross the street from the FBI building. This led to a 3 hour period when we were out of contact (due to saturation of the cellular network) and CNN was reporting innacurately that bombs were going off near our home and her work.

By the time I got to work news of the Pentagon attack had broken. I probably could have seen flight 77 from my car had I looked up. Several of my colleagues were in the reserves and watched TV knowing they would soon be in uniform. A lifelong civilian, stuck 25 miles from a home that was probably saved by the heroes of Flight 93, I figured I could at least go to the Red Cross to give blood. They wouldn't take mine due to the backwaters I had travelled in recently so I returned to work to watch the news. Unlike for most people, it was relatively good. Several of my recently laid off coworkers had been in the tower for training at Morgan Stanley and we assumed they were dead for several hours before learning that Rick Rescorla had rescued them all before returning the building.

I waited a long time to drive home assuming the roads would be closed. Instead, they were wide open and devoid of traffic. The empty Beltway at rush hour is my most surreal memory of the day. I made it home in record time despite avoiding Constitution Ave (which crosses the Whitehouse) and instead taking the beltway to the Annacostia Freeway. Although I had the top up, I caught a whiff of the smoke from the Pentagon on my way to meet my wife at my sister's place.

That night, before bed, I was surfing the web to learn more about how we would react to the attacks. My wife looked at me as asked "are you scared" as fighter jets roared in the sky. My answer was, only that we (meaning the US and the 'West' I hoped would support us) would lose our will. Some link to some article about the already forming 'peace' movement triggered this thought. I am not claiming any sort of prescience.

A week or so later we had an anthrax decontamination tent accross the street from our building. The 24 hour guard posted on our street corner until the New Year led to a zero crime rate for almost 4 months. This trend ended abruptly with a robbery at knifepoint a few hours after the guards were removed.

Unlike those who lived through Pearl Harbor, I have done little more than watch the War on TV and here at Rantburg. I have enjoyed a wonderful life since that day and, like a lot of Americans, have made no sacrifices and contributed very little to the 'war effort', even defined broadly enough to include some of my work.

While I can rationalize my lack of contribution as a function of my age and the nature of the conflict, I believe, upon reflection, that the lack of a shared sacrifice is at the root of the problems Fred mentions.

On this anniversary, I always think of the sacrifices made by the small number of my fellow citizens who wear the uniform. To them, I offer my thanks and highest admiration. The rest of us, especially those now losing their will because this war is taking so long, do not deserve them.
Posted by: JAB   2007-09-11 02:28  

#5  Bush has bungled a lot of things behind the scenes. He values loyalty over competence, in an "old boys" style. Not sayign this is all his fault, but he sure is a dumbass when it come to firing dead wood. Example: giving CIA Director Tenet a medal and keeping him on instead of firing him and his staff for incompetence and later, malfesance when htey sabotaged his every move (plame, etc) to move further ahead. Same goes for his moronic refusal to secure out borders - its likely already too late and will cost many American lives due to W's being more comitted to his political pandering to Hispanics and his helping business with cheap illegal labor, over the security of the nation.

Bush is better than the alternatives we have seen, but thats setting the bar pretty damn low, and even then W has bungled it. Right intent much of the time (And seriously wrong some other times like the border bending over for Mexico), piss-poor execution much of the time. Petraeus may save the war yet in Iraq, but it was just barely so due to Bush not firing people for screwing up.
Posted by: OldSpook   2007-09-11 02:23  

#4  biggest mistake the Bush administration has made has been not reminding the public each and every day of why we're at war with Islamism and what the consequences will be if we lose.

I blame the media for this, rather than Bush. I happen to have a "retirement" job, well, most of what I do all day, is sit in front of a computer, doing, whatever folly I can follow for the day. It might be drawing a re-do of a kitchen, finding the perfect lamp for just that certain spot, but I read, and I follow.

So --- I've read lots and lots and lots of Bush's speeches, published, just after he gives them. He has said the words.... I read them, and they never make it to the news. His words are there. His crime has been in not knowing how to get the attention of the press! But, they were never going to give him their attention anyway.

I can't fault Bush for not saying the words... I fault the press for refusing to report (publish) his words. They just.don't.do.it. Lots of speeches he's given? Can't find them anywhere in the press. Not even an acknowledgement that he gave a speech that day.

I'm sorry. But Bush has said the words, over and over and over and over. But only a few people like me, with time on their hands, in front of a computer, have read them.

The public is tired. I'm tired. My attention span is still here. But I do have to use computer search skills to find the stories... and the words of our President.

Posted by: Sherry   2007-09-11 02:06  

#3  Yeah, this war could be over pretty quickly, GET IN THERE AND HANDLE IRAN!
Posted by: Dave S.   2007-09-11 01:04  

#2  Only Islam's extinction will cause my attention span to lapse. NEVER FORGET.
Posted by: Zenster   2007-09-11 00:45  

#1  If you listen carefully, the song in the silence is the ring of hammer on iron in the forges at Damascus.
Posted by: Seafarious   2007-09-11 00:25  

00:00