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2004-09-24 Fifth Column
Why We Cannot Win
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Posted by Murat 2004-09-24 7:17:46 AM|| || Front Page|| [17 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 To all the budheads who try to burry their heads from truth, read what soldiers on the front say.
Posted by Murat 2004-09-24 7:19:13 AM||   2004-09-24 7:19:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Constitution Party of Texas.

LOL! Good 'un Murat.
Posted by Shipman 2004-09-24 7:39:08 AM||   2004-09-24 7:39:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Here ya go Murat.
Posted by Shipman 2004-09-24 7:58:07 AM||   2004-09-24 7:58:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Mad as a box of frogs.
Posted by Howard UK 2004-09-24 8:00:54 AM||   2004-09-24 8:00:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Many front-line points to really ponder here.

I would add in terms of "So long as there is support for the guerilla" in Iraq from Iran, Syria, Wahhabi foundations, Shi'ite non-profit groups and of course the international al-Qa'ida jihad network, Al is correct in his first hand overview.
Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-09-24 8:01:07 AM||   2004-09-24 8:01:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 I think this is what is known as sedition.

My first question is what is his assignment, because it's obviously not with a combat element.

The unsubstantiated argument that our strategy and tactics are inadequate does not lead to the conclusion that this is an unconstitutional war. I kinda think he's starting with the unconstitutional schtick and the failure of our tactics/strategy line is just something to hang it on. Sorry to waste this many trons on it.
Posted by Anonymous6617 2004-09-24 8:03:00 AM||   2004-09-24 8:03:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Why bother winning, just drop the bomb and be done with it. We have 3 choices. Live with terrorism, modify the bahavior of those who create terror, or utterly destroy the lands of those who export it. Those are the 3 choices, and if this dickhead is right, then I say why risk more lives, just drop the bomb. Maybe then they will get the message that we won't fuck around.
Posted by JackassFestival 2004-09-24 8:10:51 AM||   2004-09-24 8:10:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Your going to have to come-up with more than one disgruntled NCO to makr your point,Murat.
Posted by raptor 2004-09-24 8:13:26 AM||   2004-09-24 8:13:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by Anonymous6334 TROLL 2004-09-24 8:14:13 AM||   2004-09-24 8:14:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 The writer is strongly affiliated with The Constitution Party of Texas. From their platform:

"Congress and the President have a duty to provide for the defense of this country, but the American people have no similar duty to provide for the defense of any foreign nation. Further, the U.S. Government has no Constitutional authority to tax the American people to provide aid of any kind to foreign governments."

"The Constitution Party, therefore, will terminate all programs of foreign aid, whether military or non-military, to any foreign government or to any international organization, including the United Nations, the IMF, the World Bank, and other similar institutions."

So basically this guy is a sort of pacifist who never should have gone to Iraq in the first place. His folks would have bombed the hell out of Iraq to topple Saddam to defend the U.S., and then he would have left Iraq wide open to anything that happened afterwards. Bright. Real bright.

With friends like this guy, Murat, you had better start stockpiling RPG's and AK-47's under you bed.

Reference
Posted by Tom 2004-09-24 8:23:41 AM||   2004-09-24 8:23:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 "Break up Iraq, and take the oil-fields"

6334, that is the only sane thing in your entire rant.
Posted by Memesis 2004-09-24 8:27:29 AM||   2004-09-24 8:27:29 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Gotta love the title - knew it was Murat before I even clicked.

Wat was the name of that religious group who used to self-flaggelate? Little difference between them and today's left - beating themselves up all the time hoping it give them absolution. Murat - doesn't embarrass you even a little bit to be such a handwringing Chicken-Little? [most whiney voice] "I can't do it". It's safe though, if you set your levels upon "can't do it", it's easier to sit back, and do nothing but whine about those who do try. Of course, that means you have to take passive role, ie: wimp - throwing up your hands and looking away from the likes of Sadaam Al Qaeda as they murder and rape.

I've always felt the best bumper sticker for liberals would be - "
Liberals - Low expectations and proud of it!"
Posted by 2B 2004-09-24 8:30:51 AM||   2004-09-24 8:30:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Coming back for more punishment, Murat?

You might want to get some help with those masochistic tendencies. But what do I know? I'm just a dumb American cowboy.
Posted by Barbara Skolaut  2004-09-24 8:38:06 AM||   2004-09-24 8:38:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 
The author writes: ... our assessment of what motivates the average Iraqi was skewed, again by politically motivated "experts" ...

Why is he himself any different?
.
Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-09-24 8:38:26 AM||   2004-09-24 8:38:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 For the sake of argument, assume it's true that we can't win. That means Murat thinks it would be great for the Sunni thugs to be in control in Sunni land. Where's the sanity in that?

The article does not take into account that the insurgency exists primarily in Sunni land. I doubt that the Shia and Kurds are rooting for the Sunni insurgents.
Posted by V is for Victory 2004-09-24 8:40:06 AM||   2004-09-24 8:40:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#16 I think it is what is known as disinformation. Was this Constitution supporting non-com as concerned about the constitutionality of Kosovo?

Murat, We can't lose, you and the Islamofascists and lots of innocent Muslims can. This is the sensitive version of war. If it doesn't work and your friends his us again, you'll find out what insensitive war is like.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-09-24 8:48:39 AM||   2004-09-24 8:48:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 Do the right thing and tell Rantburgers about the landslide Nixon win, when Americans were in denial over the Vietnam waste. So much American blood had been spilled over there, that voters deemed it unpatriotic to vote for anyone who favored disengagement, no matter the absolute futility of that mess.

New leftist playbook, using Viet Nam as a varient rather than a central these. Slick, but no sale and ultimately irrelevent.

The difference between then and now are stark. First we know now the left cares nothing for troops in the field or for the folks at home, unlike in 1972, when no one knew but voted for Nixon anyway. We know now that failing to support the war costs lives, American lives. We know that failing to support those troops and their mission that there are people here whose family are fighting; it is simple decency to ensure that their family members come home safe when we have won in Iraq.

We know that the left likes to see dead Americans and it matters little to the left whether they wear a uniform or not. We know this now about the Viet Nam. We took a lesson from Viet Nam you apparently did not.

History repeats, and Americans are 1 month away from admitting that: nation-building, democraticization, alliance-forging in Iraq are J-O-K-E-S. I can't stand Kerry, but we have to deal with the fact that the last month of the campaign is character-month, and Bush cannot possibly shake his abject servitude to the Saud entity, and the inversion of a $200 billion surplus, for a $450 billion deficit. That imbecile outlawed the only vestige of secularism in Iraq, and allowed Islamofascist animals to fill the power vacuum. And in so doing, he turned that territorial-demographic sewer into turkey-shoot turf for Iraqis who want to murder American soldiers. Pride comes out in the wash. Nixon: loved in 1972; despised in 1974 Bush: majority accepted in September 2004; despised by November 2004 Bush Blew It. Break up Iraq, and take the oil-fields

The left under Clinton had a 200 billion surplus due to heavy taxation. When some of that burden was lifted, it was inevitable the surplus would shrink. The deficit we have now it because of a war we did not ask for but one we will win.

And this time we will win the war, honorably and in a distinctively American manner, unlike 1972; An Arab nation will have a functional republic, strong military and a robust capitalist economy. The whole rotten system elsewhere in the Middle East will in time come tumbling down. And one of the side benefits to this is the left, whatever remains of the left after this election, will be so totally discredited, I seriously doubt they could muster enough votes to make a run to Taco Bell.

And Bush will get a super-lanslide, unlike 1972 and 2000.
Posted by badanov  2004-09-24 8:49:38 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org/title-boris.gif]  2004-09-24 8:49:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#18 I guess this guy hasn't read the U.S. Constitution... Unless of course he's talking about the E.U. constitution, or Iraq's constitution or something... It's a good thing that the Fuehrer and the Emperor didn't know that it's 'un- U.S. Constitutional' to occupy a sovreign nation, huh? Once we get rid on pansies like this guy, and start killing people and destroying stuff like an army should, things will work out a lot smoother.
Posted by Anonymous6619 2004-09-24 8:50:08 AM||   2004-09-24 8:50:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#19 Firstly - look who the writer is:

Al Lorentz is former state chairman of the Constitution Party of Texas and is a reservist currently serving with the US Army in Iraq.

then he says

"I am an old and seasoned Non-Commissioned Officer with nearly 20 years under my belt."

He is a RESERVIST - not a 20 year experienced soldier - in other words he's a weekend warrior whining because he had to go off to war - not a real combat dawg who serve a full 20 years full time. This guys starts his very article off with a distortion intended to mislead.

"Civil Affairs"

In other words a paper pusher.

"A 500-pound precision bomb has a casualty-producing radius of 400 meters minimum; do the math"

Wrong - put it CONTAINED as penetratign a building and the casualty radius is about 20 yard from the walls of the building. ANd thats mainly wounded - no deaths unless you get a chunk of rebar blown into you standing right nest to it.

"point out the fact that the locals are not only disliking us more and more, they are growing increasingly upset and often overtly hostile."

This does not jibe with whats going on in the rebuilt areas, nor does it match up with what I hear from guys I know that are over there, civilian and military.

"we consistently underestimate the enemy and his capabilities. Our tactics have not adjusted to the battlefield and we are falling behind."

This is bullshit - The guys over there have changed tactics, they are learning - and furthermore, they are coming back here and "teaching the teachers" so the Army can adjust. If we were truly falling behind, you'd see a much higher death count. ON top of that, the "enemy" has used IEDs and ambushes - nothing new there at all once we got over the shock of IEDs.

"Third, the guerillas are filling their losses faster than we can create them."

Bullshit - the guerilla groups attrit massively every time our troops are given a green light to fight them all-out. The Sadr Army has yet to regenerate its losses. This guys is a deskbound asshole who hasn't seen the intelligence reports, and isnt afraid to lie to suppor this views.

"Fourth, their lines of supply and communication are much shorter than ours and much less vulnerable. We must import everything we need into this place; this costs money and is dangerous. Whether we fly the supplies in or bring them by truck, they are vulnerable to attack, most especially those brought by truck. This not only increases the likelihood of the supplies being interrupted. Every bean, every bullet and every bandage becomes infinitely more expensive. "

So we spend the money - the Pacific campaign in WW2 we didnt have anythign local either - nor did we in Germany, North Africa or Italy. Seems we worked it out OK there against opponents with factories and local access. This is not a valid point.

" un-Constitutional mission"

This is his political axe to grind - he's a political extremist group - isolationist.

If this whiner truly believes the war is un Consitutional, then he shoudl simply say so to his unit commander and refuse to follow the "unlawful orders" - the reason he doesn't is that he's a REMF, and knows his ass will end up in the stockade.

Thank God this so-called NCO is in a desk job - he'd only get his troops killed in the field.

I'd challenge this NCO to come clean and admit his position is made up of lies and distortions becuase he simply disagrees with US policy due to his politics. I've certainly shown him to be untruthful. Secondly, I'd liek his chain of command to see this - we damned well do not need lying and seditious talks like this from our NCOs.

Someone please forward this to his chain of command - he at minimum deserves a reprimand and a bit of informative talk from the G-2 as to the realities of the siutuation in places other than his desk in the green zone.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-09-24 8:57:56 AM||   2004-09-24 8:57:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#20 Al Lorentz is former state chairman of the Constitution Party of Texas

Yup a right wing, buchananite pol who was mobilized as a reservist, and is telling us things he beleived before the war, with little on scene detail, unlike the many soldier blogs with lots of detail of what theyve seen and learned.

Another Right wing loony.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-09-24 9:03:30 AM||   2004-09-24 9:03:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 Google the author, he's a first class loon, bet brother Burkett knows him too.
Posted by Shipman 2004-09-24 9:04:46 AM||   2004-09-24 9:04:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 Jeez, Murat. It probably took you all day to find this piece of shit article to post (lourockwell.com? PUH-leeze!) yet you can't take the time to Google for Armenian genocide sites to get the truth on that?
You're a joke.
Posted by tu3031 2004-09-24 9:30:56 AM||   2004-09-24 9:30:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#23 OS, are you going to run for some office? I want to vote for you.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-09-24 9:42:36 AM||   2004-09-24 9:42:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#24 "Lew Rockwell"? A nice reminder of the vast gulf between America's impotent pseudo-fascists and Europe's virulent real fascists. Jean marie Le Pen got more votes than Jospin. Lew Rockwell and Lyndon Larouche are less well known in America than Norman Rockwell and Nuke LaLouche.
Posted by lex 2004-09-24 9:46:02 AM||   2004-09-24 9:46:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#25 "Rather we are told, they are upset because of a handful of terrorists, criminals and dead enders in their midst have made them upset, that and of course the ever convenient straw man of "left wing media bias."

Well, That explains it. He is getting his information from Dan Rather.
Posted by Johnnie Bartlette 2004-09-24 9:54:15 AM||   2004-09-24 9:54:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#26 Jeez, Murat. It probably took you all day to find this piece of shit article to post (lourockwell.com? PUH-leeze!) yet you can't take the time to Google for Armenian genocide sites to get the truth on that?
You're a joke.

Bravo, tu.

Seeing as how the only alternative to us not winning is a constant stream of further terrorist atrocities, my money's on breaking Islam's filthy violent spine.
Posted by Zenster 2004-09-24 10:11:25 AM||   2004-09-24 10:11:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#27 Please delete the word "not" from my above post.
Posted by Zenster 2004-09-24 10:13:17 AM||   2004-09-24 10:13:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#28 It must cause you a lot of pain to read all this from your compatriot tu3031, ofcourse you have all the right to go on playing the three apes, don't see nothing, don't hear nothing, don't say nothing about the mess in Iraq.

Whatever, trust me when I say I'll enjoy to see you numskulls running like rats from a sinking ship soon.
Posted by Murat 2004-09-24 10:22:50 AM||   2004-09-24 10:22:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#29 Murat has no credibility, no moral standing, and little display of any intelligence - place him on the "troll- ignore" list
Posted by Frank G  2004-09-24 10:24:13 AM||   2004-09-24 10:24:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#30 Murat: It must cause you a lot of pain to read all this from your compatriot tu3031, ofcourse you have all the right to go on playing the three apes, don't see nothing, don't hear nothing, don't say nothing about the mess in Iraq. Whatever, trust me when I say I'll enjoy to see you numskulls running like rats from a sinking ship soon.

I suggest Murat read up a little more about the history of American arms. It has never lost a war. (Vietnam wasn't lost by the American military - it was lost by the South Vietnamese military. By contrast, the French were actually defeated in the battlefield). And if George Bush is re-elected, the Iraqi guerrillas will be crushed.

By contrast, the Turkish military was actually defeated by the same Arabs they had conquered. Now Murat may think of Arabs as great warriors because they defeated the Turks, but that is more an indication of Turkish weakness than Arab strength.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-09-24 10:38:07 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2004-09-24 10:38:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#31 ZF: By contrast, the French were actually defeated in the battlefield.

What I find interesting is that the French were defeated despite massive American supply efforts, whereas the South Vietnamese were defeated because the overwhelmingly Democratic Congress cut them off, even as the Chinese and the Soviets were shipping billions of dollars of weaponry to North Vietnam.
Posted by Zhang Fei  2004-09-24 10:43:31 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2004-09-24 10:43:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#32 ZF, why, given the French tradition, I would expect nothing less! :-)
Posted by Memesis 2004-09-24 10:47:40 AM||   2004-09-24 10:47:40 AM|| Front Page Top

#33 Al Lorentz:
"I believe that we could have won this un-Constitutional invasion of Iraq and possibly pulled off the even more un-Constitutional occupation and subjugation of this sovereign nation."

TomAnon:
Well that should be about all you need to read on this guy. He will defend his country only when invaded. I frankly do not wish to wait for that eventuality. I do not live in a world of fantasy waiting (perhaps wishing?) for a "Red Dawn" like scenario as Al obviously does. So Murat, Al, are you all secretly hoping for a "Red Crescent Dawn"? Is that your perverted fantasy?

Call it what is SEDITION.
Posted by TomAnon 2004-09-24 10:56:15 AM||   2004-09-24 10:56:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#34 You're right, Murat. See no dead Armenians, hear no dead Armenians, talk about no dead Armenians.
Oooooops, sorry. Wrong "mess", as you call it.
Posted by tu3031 2004-09-24 11:08:55 AM||   2004-09-24 11:08:55 AM|| Front Page Top

#35 Did anyone notice in the article provided by shipman that this guy claims to have been a Marine sniper? So I guess he was a sniper that went Army reserve civilian affairs later - kind of out of the ordinary imo. Anyways - I don't think he's a pacifist but more likely an isolationist to some degree. Isolationists should not be lumped in w/pacifists. Though they certainly can be both, most isolationists just want to be left the hell alone but have no problem kicking the shit out of someone if it is warranted. Look at U.S. history circa 1787 to 1945. Hell, I'm an isolationist to a degree as well but am definitely no pacifist.

I disagree w/his article as he seems to be out of the loop. I don't attribute this to him being a REMF, because I've known plenty of great so-called REMFs and have even been one from time to time. He has a definite political axe to grind and his facts cannot support that axe.

Actually his speech could be sanctioned under the UCMJ as contemptuous speech toward federally elected officials. Seditious speech is a different matter.
Posted by Jarhead 2004-09-24 11:10:14 AM||   2004-09-24 11:10:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#36 Oh - well, if we can't win, I guess we'll just have to kill everybody. Bummer.

Maybe we could offer them pie?...
Posted by mojo  2004-09-24 11:20:25 AM||   2004-09-24 11:20:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#37 Jarhead, I am shocked and appalled. You are not a pacifist??? How on earth did that happen? (Please don't answer. I'm quite certain the shock of your explanation would send me permanently over the edge)

/silliness
Posted by trailing wife 2004-09-24 11:23:03 AM||   2004-09-24 11:23:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#38 I know TW, you would think w/how articulate, reserved, unexcitable, and sensitive I am that I would have a picture of ghandi and jerry garcia on my wall. However, I did once have a fling w/a canadian exchange student who was a pacifist....I think she was trying to broaden my horizons or some such, hehe.
Posted by Jarhead 2004-09-24 11:39:20 AM||   2004-09-24 11:39:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#39 With all due respect, why does anyone, at all, continue to peruse paleokook Lew Rockwell, avatar of the anti-American right?

Rockwell tipped his hand a long, long, time ago, when he went off defending the chicoms downing and detaining our re-con plane in the South China Sea.

National Review dumped him years ago when they realized what he lunatic he was.
Posted by Red Lief 2004-09-24 12:27:00 PM||   2004-09-24 12:27:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 Murat dearly craves our departure from Iraq so he and his fellow Ottomans can conduct their next progrom against the Kurds. Happy to disappoint you Murat....ain't gonna happen. Bush wins 4 more years, and you have to back to sulking under your bridge while along Kurdistan gets stronger as does the rest of Iraq.
Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-09-24 1:08:36 PM||   2004-09-24 1:08:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 We've had something like 44,000 articles posted on Rantburg in the past three years. I think this is the first one from LewRockwell.com.
Posted by Fred  2004-09-24 1:12:59 PM||   2004-09-24 1:12:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 Murat has no credibility, no moral standing, and little display of any intelligence..

Sounds like Murat's best impression of "the three apes".
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-09-24 1:37:35 PM||   2004-09-24 1:37:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 
We've had something like 44,000 articles posted on Rantburg in the past three years. I think this is the first one from LewRockwell.com.


Anyone else find it amusing that it comes from Muridit?
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-09-24 1:41:16 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/]  2004-09-24 1:41:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 Murat stopped being a locus of constructive conversation long ago and is now simply a distraction (this thread being a fair example). His trollbait submissions and strident anti-Americanism are annoying but arguably tolerable; it is his repetitive denial of the Armenian genocide that tips the scales from "comic relief" to "evil." His comments are not "controversial" or "a different point of view." He's an apologist for mass-murder.

Fred, for the integrity of your own site, consider an ISP ban.

Murat, unlike some others here, I hope you and your family NEVER experience what your grandparents perpetrated on their neighbors and fellow countrymen.
Posted by The Caucasus Nerd 2004-09-24 2:20:02 PM||   2004-09-24 2:20:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by Anonymous6334 TROLL 2004-09-24 2:32:16 PM||   2004-09-24 2:32:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 A6334 - "leftist" - nah. Bad wuz being Good, er, nice. You're yet another (and there are so many scurrying about nowadays!) Dysfunctional Fuckwit. You've come here for a little Bushwhacking and hate therapy. A cheap fix for your frustrated "isms" and/or disingenuous politics. Fred should charge zipperheads like you $60-$70 per hour just to read RB. Posting? Lol. Blocked.

If you were the Prez or King of the World, you'd have to pull your head out of your ass and think - or have it handed to you on a platter... and figure out that you have to compromise at times and, and this is the kicker, live within reality. Fantasies are fine for children, but adults have to stick to what is and what can be vs. IWantWhatIWantWhenIWantIt (IWWIWWIWI) - the war cry of the 3 year olds.

You're just another clueless / angry wart on the world's ass. FOAD/HAND.
Posted by .com 2004-09-24 2:55:45 PM||   2004-09-24 2:55:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#47 Badanov accuses me above of being a "leftist." How many leftists advocate making Mecca, Medina, Qom, Karbala and Najaf uninhabitable for hundreds of years?

I don't wanna know. Anyways, the idea is to defeat the enemy by removing their will to fight; in other words, I want us to fight, as we did in Viet Nam: as though our principles and ideal matter to us, as they do. That doesn't include indiscriminate nuking of an enemy's religious symbols as well as the humanity. It may be fun to talk about it, since we here have no such responsibilities, but your idea isn't the way.

How should I refer to a liar who pretends that the Iraq occupation is progressing? Read this report from a highly respected US research agency (Center for Strategic and International Studies) on the state of the QUAGMIRE in "faith based" Iraq:
http://www.csis.org/press/pr04_51.pdf

You can regard the ISS as respected, but as with everything else they must prove themselves on a regular basis. They haven't done that, so I wont waste my Friday evening wading through what passes for a study, but it far more likely to be yet another political document, inaccurate and ultimately irrelevant.

And read this Wall Street Journal report on the Street's attitude to the Bush deficit, that is the result of his insane pick-pocketing of Americans subsidize his moronic crusade to modernize Muslims:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45793-2004Sep23.html

Thought you wrote you weren't a leftist. ;o) And just because an article says Wall Street is against something Busgh does doesnt mean they are against Bush.

By November, Bush's credibility will vanish, except among the QUAGMIRE deniers. Then America will have Carter2, pending the purge of the Republican Party of Texas oil-patch thieves and religious crackpots. Within 6 months of the Kerry presidency, public opinion will be so strong against the Islamofascist enemy, the president will become a puppet of public opinion, and then we can finally go to town against the koranimals who butchered over 3,000 persons on 9-11. SECULARISM OR DEATH!

Wow. You were doing so well until this last passage.

You are tuned in to the wrong station. You have been listening to the internet feed of:

www.iraqisaquagmireanditisallbushsfault.com

waa-aay too much.
Posted by badanov  2004-09-24 3:50:01 PM|| [http://www.rkka.org]  2004-09-24 3:50:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#48 His trollbait submissions and strident anti-Americanism are annoying but arguably tolerable; it is his repetitive denial of the Armenian genocide that tips the scales from "comic relief" to "evil." His comments are not "controversial" or "a different point of view." He's an apologist for mass-murder.

Thank you, The Caucasas Nerd, for ensuring that Murat is hoisted by the correct and proper petard. However fond he seems of long-line fishing from beneath a certain well known bridge that he keeps trying to sell us, it is his holocaust denial (the Armenian genocide inspired Hitler's "Final Solution") that clearly identifies him as morally bankrupt.

“Who today, after all, speaks of the annihilation of the Armenians?” Hitler said this eight days before the invasion of Poland.
Posted by Zenster 2004-09-24 5:30:08 PM||   2004-09-24 5:30:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#49 [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by Anonymous6334 TROLL 2004-09-24 6:23:41 PM||   2004-09-24 6:23:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#50 Get thee back to DU, Asshole6334. You're simply challenged - in every practical way - by reality. BTW, I know more about combat than you ever will, witless. Toddle off.
Posted by .com 2004-09-24 6:28:20 PM||   2004-09-24 6:28:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#51 I threaded 8 round oilfield pipe in El Reno, Okla. in the 90s. While I am not the same caliber of those member of the International Association of Oilfield Trash, I am honored to know one or two.

I am oilfield trash and I would be proud to have .com as one of my associates.
Posted by badanov  2004-09-24 6:41:40 PM|| [http://www.rkka.org/title-boris.gif]  2004-09-24 6:41:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#52 bad - I never did roughneck duty - just O&G programming for about 20 yrs. I quit my carpenter job and started learning programming when I realized computers were always air conditioned, lol! I be awlfield trash too, heh. The funny thing about the awl biz is that they are all over the planet. Changing planes at Gatwick or Orly you hear some damned Texas twang - you can't help but laugh, lol! Those hick Okie and Texas cowboys are better traveled and more aware / worldly than the cloistered fools in the ivory towers of the Ivy League. :-)

A6334 is one of those twits who needs therapy - and thinks that jacking off at discussion sites will relieve the pressure. The problem is, however, that he's full of shit, not ejaculate.
Posted by .com 2004-09-24 7:02:12 PM||   2004-09-24 7:02:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#53 His tools' argument is not cause and effect. Which tools does he suggest as the alternative: a table, 2 chairs, and a bundle of cash?

There is another factor at work: the aftermath of negative international opinion as seen in the media. Is it just possible that the hostility of the populace may correlate to the international community's battle cry since the deposition of a psychotic murderer ("America invaded Iraq illegally, America needs to be knocked down a notch")?

The Iraqis are taking out their anger over "civilian casualties" on the wrong folks. It is to be determined whether they are a lucid people who recognize the jihadists in their midst, not the neighbors who assist them, as worthy of their vengeance.

One last thing-I never thought of the Iraqi people as generally "ignorant mud-hut dwelling camel riders".

Posted by jules 2 2004-09-24 7:22:12 PM||   2004-09-24 7:22:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#54 Hey Murat:

Go fuck yourself. You better hope damn well that we win hearts and minds over there, because if the day ever comes when we wash our hands of that whole basket case that is the middle east, we will have no choice but to turn the whole thing into a sea of glass.

Asshole.
Posted by Crusader 2004-09-24 7:27:49 PM||   2004-09-24 7:27:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#55 [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by Anonymous6334 TROLL 2004-09-24 7:37:50 PM||   2004-09-24 7:37:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#56 [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by Anonymous6334 TROLL 2004-09-24 7:47:16 PM||   2004-09-24 7:47:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#57 Asshole 6334 sez:
"Any Koranimal who wants respect from me, can suck it out of my cock."

Lol! Wow. You are one tough motherfucker, woohoo! You don't know jackshit about "Koranimals", except what you've read or seen on TV. Wotta fake faux foo-fighter.

Back on your meds, you're a DU drooler.
Posted by .com 2004-09-24 7:49:20 PM||   2004-09-24 7:49:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#58 If this is a person in leadership role in a war zone, kick his ass back to Texas. With an attitude like his, a man in moral decline, I don't want him near his man's Army. What a panty waste.

Posted by Anonymous6615 2004-09-24 8:44:46 PM||   2004-09-24 8:44:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#59 Fred - excellent fisking, BTW - spot-on throughout!
Posted by .com 2004-09-24 9:03:06 PM||   2004-09-24 9:03:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#60  We have 3 choices. (1) Live with terrorism, (2) modify the bahavior of those who create terror, or (3) utterly destroy the lands of those who export it. Someone above said it succinctly.

The jihadists want to rule the world in some fucked up Taliban way. It seems to be built into the religion. They have been a festering sore for a long time. Consider the hostage situation in Iran in the 70s, Marine barracks in Lebanon (1980s), Flight 103, the Cole, the embassy bombings, Spain, World Trade Center I (1993), World Trade Center II (2001), and on and on. We have been at war for a long time with these bastards. The coalition of the whining doesn't seem to get it. The jihadists really don't give a flip about the rest of the world other than to destroy it.
Posted by HJ 2004-09-24 9:17:02 PM||   2004-09-24 9:17:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#61 While we're having confessions, I might as well tell the awful truth: I'm awlfield trash too. I build lathe refacing machines for drill pipe.

Please don't tell my mom, though, she thinks I play piano in a whorehouse.
Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-09-24 9:59:39 PM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]  2004-09-24 9:59:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#62 Phil - Lol! Good'un. Do yew tok funnie, too?
Posted by .com 2004-09-24 10:05:53 PM||   2004-09-24 10:05:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#63 Ya know, cher, I that y'all were da ones dat talk funny?
Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-09-24 10:20:25 PM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]  2004-09-24 10:20:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#64 It jus' 'cured to me that I was missin some dubayas in dat last post...
Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-09-24 10:43:52 PM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]  2004-09-24 10:43:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#65 Lol - sounds more like "kay-jon" to me! As a dedicated Twain-o-phile I'm pretty accustomed to seeing vernacular in print, heh.
Posted by .com 2004-09-24 10:52:20 PM||   2004-09-24 10:52:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#66 Well, Da##, now I've gotta come out of the closet, too.

First let's take care of Murat's idiot on LaughNRoll.com: What he's saying is exactly the opposite of what Allawi said in Congress, and almost impossible to square with what I hear from an old boss, who's running a recon unit actively working Iraq. Bulls$$$ is Bulls$$$, especially from a Texan. This nutjob is not a combat infantryman, he has no responsibilities other than see that the home town news releases get filed, and he's afraid enough to wet his knickers, so he's trying to push every button he can to get out of harm's way. He epitomizes the "yellow rose" - at least the "yellow" part. Anyone believing this piece of excrement deserves whatever happens to them. Just keep it from hitting me after it hits the fan.

My experience in the oilpatch consists of a summer hauling jugs, and working for a couple of years as a seismic processing technician. That was enough to "encourage" me to rejoin the Air Force after a four-year break.
Posted by Old Patriot  2004-09-25 12:20:44 AM|| [http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]  2004-09-25 12:20:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#67 Seismic - whopping mother-lovin honkin terabytes of data. Biggest datasets I've ever seen - had to spend days pre-proccessing the lot to select data points that fell within the lease boundaries to minimize the size. Still ended up being multiple tape reels. And this was back when the Cray-1 only had, *cough*, .5MB of memory. Yes, you read it right. Half a meg. Talk about a pain in the ass. Sigh. The good old days. Yeah, right!

But at least it was an indoors job, heh.

Funny thing about seismic data acquisition was that the places that needed mapping were either hot as hell, cold as hell, or wet as hell. Lol!
Posted by .com 2004-09-25 12:35:24 AM||   2004-09-25 12:35:24 AM|| Front Page Top

#68 mount tape 34629 on drive 3 no ring
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-09-25 12:39:26 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-09-25 12:39:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#69 Lol! No ring is write right! Overwrite this data and your ass was history!
Posted by .com 2004-09-25 12:45:06 AM||   2004-09-25 12:45:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#70 The problem is, however, that he's full of shit, not ejaculate.

.com, you may need to reconsider your stance. A6334 most definitely comes across as full of ejaculate. It just happens to be someone else's.

Ask me sometime about my pals who used to work with Seymour. I actually saw what Cray Research had built of the Cray III in Colorado Springs.
Posted by Zenster 2004-09-25 4:57:32 AM||   2004-09-25 4:57:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#71 .com I thought you would get a kick out of that.
I always found the data I was looking for at school on the inside of the tape spool. Thank G_D for the guys that got disks working. Even if you needed a room full of drives you were not chasing down tapes.
Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom  2004-09-25 5:02:43 AM|| [http://www.slhess.com]  2004-09-25 5:02:43 AM|| Front Page Top

#72 Seismic data processing. Raytheon 1200. 25 years ago. Yup. Seems like that was another century...

Waitaminit... it was another century!
Posted by Memesis 2004-09-25 7:09:04 AM||   2004-09-25 7:09:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#73 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by Anonymous6334 2004-09-24 8:14:13 AM||   2004-09-24 8:14:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#74 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by Anonymous6334 2004-09-24 2:32:16 PM||   2004-09-24 2:32:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#75 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by Anonymous6334 2004-09-24 6:23:41 PM||   2004-09-24 6:23:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#76 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by Anonymous6334 2004-09-24 7:37:50 PM||   2004-09-24 7:37:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#77 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]
Posted by Anonymous6334 2004-09-24 7:47:16 PM||   2004-09-24 7:47:16 PM|| Front Page Top

12:42 Liberalhawk
12:42 Liberalhawk
07:09 Memesis
05:02 Sock Puppet of Doom
04:57 Zenster
03:24 Super Hose
03:13 Super Hose
03:10 Super Hose
01:05 Sock Puppet of Doom
01:04 Zhang Fei
01:02 Memesis
00:57 Mike Sylwester
00:56 .com
00:49 Super Hose
00:45 Mike Sylwester
00:45 .com
00:39 Sock Puppet of Doom
00:35 .com
00:24 Memesis
00:20 Old Patriot
00:15 Zenster
00:14 Bomb-a-rama
00:12 Memesis
23:53 Zhang Fei









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