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2004-09-14 Africa: Horn
Syria tested chemical weapons on black Darfur population: German WELT reports
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Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-14 2:10:26 PM|| || Front Page|| [11138 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 There you have it folks:

The Iraqi WMD, sneaked out to Syria by Saddam, is further transhipped to the South of Sudan.
Posted by RN  2004-09-14 2:26:58 PM||   2004-09-14 2:26:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Do we need another reason to turn Syria and Baby ASSad into a smoking hole in the ground?
Posted by anymouse  2004-09-14 2:31:23 PM||   2004-09-14 2:31:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Wasn't there a story a while ago about the Sudan asking Syria to get its chemical weapons out of town?
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-09-14 2:34:13 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/]  2004-09-14 2:34:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 I am surprised Powell didn't raise this on Sunday when he was on the talk shows. It was clear from the one I saw that he is personally invested in the Sudan situation.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-09-14 2:40:14 PM||   2004-09-14 2:40:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 From this site:

http://www.harpazo.net/archives/2004/April2004.html

Sudan Orders Syria to Remove Weapons

Sudan has ordered the removal of Syrian missiles and weapons of mass destruction out of the African country. Arab diplomatic and Sudanese government sources said the regime of Sudanese President Omar Bashir has ordered that Syria remove its Scud C and Scud D medium-range ballistic missiles as well as components for chemical weapons stored in warehouses in Khartoum.

The sources said the Sudanese demand was issued after the Defense Ministry and Interior Ministry confirmed a report published earlier this month that Syria has been secretly flying Scud-class missiles and WMD components to Khartoum.
The sources said the Bashir regime has been alarmed over the prospect that the United States would discover the Syrian arsenal and conclude that Damascus and Khartoum were cooperating in the area of missiles and WMD. They said this would have delayed or dashed U.S. plans to lift sanctions from Sudan.

A U.S. official confirmed the Syrian missile shipments to Sudan, saying they were meant for use against rebels in the south. But the official said the U.S. intelligence community has not determined that Syria sent WMD systems to Khartoum.
Posted by RN  2004-09-14 2:40:51 PM||   2004-09-14 2:40:51 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 I just sent this to Drudge
Posted by Yosemite Sam 2004-09-14 2:44:59 PM||   2004-09-14 2:44:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 President Bush, screw the election. Take Syria down now, not later.
Posted by Atropanthe 2004-09-14 2:55:23 PM||   2004-09-14 2:55:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Now where did I say the WMD went?

The mountians in the western part of Syria.

Very convenient, very isolated, and tightly controlled.


Look for the Syrian "Secret Police" installations in that area.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-09-14 2:57:43 PM||   2004-09-14 2:57:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 "But...but we TOLD them to get their dirty ol' missiles 'n' bio weapons outta here..."
Posted by Khartoum 2004-09-14 2:59:25 PM||   2004-09-14 2:59:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Syria does have its own chemical weapons, so the Iraqi ones would blend in...

I suppose there are many baby milk factories in the mountains but no cows.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-14 3:00:15 PM||   2004-09-14 3:00:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Sam, I'm drinking a shot of Bushmills to you tonight.

If this ends up on drudge and doesn't get shot down, it's going to be impossible to wipe the smile off my face. And I can't wait to see the faces of a few choice "where-are-the-WMD" lefties around town.
Posted by jules 187 2004-09-14 3:02:48 PM||   2004-09-14 3:02:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 DisclaimerMy opinions here are merely conjecture informed by a little bit of open research, and some years of known that region and being an analyst - and a current analytical mindset that covers the civilian job I now do.

I bet a lot of you wonder why hasn't the US Government come out and said as much as I have?

If the US has anything on this, its probably from sensitive "sources and methods", so they cannot disclose it without destroying vital sources of info.

My bet it is that they do have solid data, but are precluded from revealing it because they want to act on it eventually. As in take out the chemical weapons and their depots, or capture it in a coup de main. To do so, they cannot reveal what they know, because that would shut off their sources.

Remember, Syria is a Baathist police state, and has large terror organizations embedded there. Those types are quite ruthless in weeding out traitors, so even the merest hint of somone being a leak, or something being vulnerable to US technical capabilities, would trigger a response that would likely destroy the utility of the intelligence source.

As an example, look at Osama Bin Laden and his use of Sat-phones. We used to be able to intercept his sat phone, and listen in on his calls. But a story broke in the Boston Globe (lefty newspaper kills us again) about this, so Bin Laden and his staff stopped using them - we were at least partially (if not mostly) blinded from late 1999 to what Al Qaueda's command staff was up to.

So loose lips may not sink ships, but they damned well can eventually cause towers to fall.

A second Bush administration will likely be the one to move on Syria, but this time, learning from Iraq, the first objective will be to secure the WMD as proof, probably with indigneous local forces, who would be reinforced by Rangers and the Airborne - the "rescued" overland by forces from Iraq. They would form an "occupation zone", leaving the rest of Syria alone, except for Aerial attacks on military infrastructure. Basically we woudl take only the areas needed to secure and destroy the WMD - leaving the rest of Syria to rot, rather then be stuck occupying it. That leaves the police state there shown as impotent, and will likely cause Syria to devolve into chaos unless the central government comes around to the side of the light and gets outside help from the West..
Posted by OldSpook 2004-09-14 3:27:46 PM||   2004-09-14 3:27:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 OS, Let's consider giving Syria to the Kurds as the blue water access for Kurdistan.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-09-14 3:31:06 PM||   2004-09-14 3:31:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 The BND generally is too small to do the whole world the way the US services do, but what they do, when they do a job, is usually superlative work.

So if this is coming from the BND, then pay attention.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-09-14 3:31:20 PM||   2004-09-14 3:31:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 "Western Intelligence Sources" in Die WELT is usually the BND, and this is not an accidental leak.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-14 3:33:53 PM||   2004-09-14 3:33:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 just to point out, even if above turns out to be true, these are NOT necessarily Iraqi CW, as Syria had its own program.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-09-14 3:35:36 PM||   2004-09-14 3:35:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 BND = ?
Posted by lex 2004-09-14 3:36:12 PM||   2004-09-14 3:36:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 BND = German Federal Intelligence, no?
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-09-14 3:38:03 PM||   2004-09-14 3:38:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Yes, Bundesnachrichtendienst, the German CIA so to speak
Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-14 3:39:15 PM||   2004-09-14 3:39:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 put Gehlen on the case
Posted by lex 2004-09-14 3:43:17 PM||   2004-09-14 3:43:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 A bit too dead maybe ;-)
Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-14 3:44:23 PM||   2004-09-14 3:44:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 OldSpook-always appreciate what you add to the discussion. If any news site has it though, it's already out of the bag in a sense, isn't it?

LH-True. I think these two border-sharing, Baathist regimes have much in common. Wonder if we have really been thinking in those terms up to this point.

Syrian special forces have used chemical weapons against the Black-African population of Darfur. The action in which dozens of people died.

That is a fairly weighty accusation. Since the UN seems hamstrung as soon as the word "Muslim" is uttered in connection with crimes, what possible repercussions could there be, if it does turn out to be true?

Posted by jules 187 2004-09-14 3:49:38 PM||   2004-09-14 3:49:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Al-Gehlen
Posted by lex 2004-09-14 3:49:47 PM||   2004-09-14 3:49:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#24  RN (1st posting) You are 100% correct about Saddam's WMD 'trucked' shipped into Syria and beyond. Where is the New York Times on this?
Posted by Mark Espinola 2004-09-14 3:59:14 PM||   2004-09-14 3:59:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Since the UN seems hamstrung as soon as the word "Muslim" is uttered in connection with crimes, what possible repercussions could there be, if it does turn out to be true?

I believe the technical term is "bugger all".
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-09-14 4:02:06 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com]  2004-09-14 4:02:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 TGA

Any ideas as to which part of the BND favors Die Welt?

Ab1, Ab2 or Ab5?

If its Ab5, then this all of a sudden gets VERY interesting.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-09-14 4:04:12 PM||   2004-09-14 4:04:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Abteilung 5: Operative Aufklärung / Auswertung Organisierte Kriminalität-Internationaler Terrorismus
Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-14 4:20:42 PM||   2004-09-14 4:20:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Ummmmmmmm, maybe. What's in it for the Syrians? Why would they use Chem in the Sudan. What is their payoff? Makes more sense to sit on the good stuff, especially while the Yankees are so close to the border.
Posted by Shipman 2004-09-14 5:23:53 PM||   2004-09-14 5:23:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Why would they use Chem in the Sudan. What is their payoff?

To find out if their own mix works, is my guess.
Posted by Colt  2004-09-14 5:29:06 PM|| [http://eurabiantimes.motime.com]  2004-09-14 5:29:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 LGF Colt?
Posted by Shipman 2004-09-14 6:02:44 PM||   2004-09-14 6:02:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 To find out if their own mix works, is my guess.

Perhaps this was the "test drive" resulting from Syria's handover of those pharmaceutical plants to their military.
Posted by Zenster 2004-09-14 7:27:29 PM||   2004-09-14 7:27:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Payof: Syria needs oil and if they are in a fight with the Iraqi's then it won't come from there. Sudan is sitting on a pile. Or maybe they did want to test in an area where they believed they would not be caught.
Posted by remote man 2004-09-14 8:06:15 PM||   2004-09-14 8:06:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 Ummmmmmmm, maybe. What's in it for the Syrians? Why would they use Chem in the Sudan. What is their payoff?

Think 'Spanish Civil War'. Sudan has had low-intensity conflicts going on for over 30 years. Plenty of training opportunities.
Posted by Pappy 2004-09-14 8:31:00 PM||   2004-09-14 8:31:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 Ab5 eh? Never worked with them but they have a reputation.

If it were Ab1, then thats normal foreign work.

That the Anti-Terr branch is on the case is worrisome.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-09-14 8:45:47 PM||   2004-09-14 8:45:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 Drudge doesn't have this up yet, Yosemite Sam, but Little Green Footballs has it posted, with over 100 comments on the thread. Any bets on how long until Rush Limbaugh mentions this?

TGA, Old Spook, thanks for the perspective on the source. The Syrians are going to find the near future more interesting than they'd expected when they got up this morning!
Posted by trailing wife 2004-09-14 9:06:13 PM||   2004-09-14 9:06:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 OS, worrisome for whom and why?
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-09-14 9:07:49 PM||   2004-09-14 9:07:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 I will not confirm or deny the source.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-14 9:09:12 PM||   2004-09-14 9:09:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 He can say no more.
Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-09-14 9:12:56 PM||   2004-09-14 9:12:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 There certainly are jihadis and camps in the Sudan that need to be taken out, but I think that the Sudan intervention has been sold to Americans correctly - as a humanitarian necessity. I'm sure that terrorist camps and chemical weapons can be made to disappear, but I'm sure that we won't have any trouble finding oppressed people in Darfur once we get in there.

I'd like to see an immediate "no-fly" zone established and Special Ops begin taking down the terrorist training camps.
Posted by Super Hose 2004-09-14 9:20:59 PM||   2004-09-14 9:20:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 TGA: You dont work for them do you? LOL!

And no, I dont want to peel the onion any further. Leave it up to the guys on watch now.

No sense in me waking up the mooks before they get whats coming to them.
Posted by OldSpook 2004-09-14 10:06:45 PM||   2004-09-14 10:06:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 This will cause some sleepless nights in Tel Aviv, if even remotely true. I'm sure the Israelis know where the "sensitive" areas are, and how to take them out. I'd also bet that Turkey is none too happy about it, either. Iraqi missiles had to travel a long way to hit Israel - Syria's right next door. Lebanon's open to them as well. Asshat may have just cut his own throat. There's no way Israel can allow chemical weapons to be positioned on its northern border and hope to survive.
Posted by Old Patriot  2004-09-14 10:08:43 PM|| [http://users.codenet.net/mweather/default.htm]  2004-09-14 10:08:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 Old Spook, no, I don't work for them.
Know a few things, don't know a few other things...
Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-14 10:20:29 PM||   2004-09-14 10:20:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 Syria's never looked back after Powell gave Baby Assad a good cop warning. They figured that Bush would lose the election, and their Mad Mullah buddies in Iran would help take up the slack after Saddam's fall. Syria is begging for a serious wack, especially if this CW stuff turns out to be true. I hope that we or someone can get good proof of this CW, just to silence the asshats. The theatres of operations are very fluid these days, and so critical.

BTW, the moose stew here is great! They are organically grown, heh heh.
Posted by Alaska Paul in McGrath, AK 2004-09-14 10:50:40 PM||   2004-09-14 10:50:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 Mmmmmm, I don't think we really want to invade Syria guys. We're two invasions away from WWIII as it is. That's why the U.N. tiptoes so daintily around Muslim issues.

Luckily invasion is not necessary. The whole world already knows we're waging a war on terrorism, and that Mr. Bush has said we'll hunt them down no matter what country they're hiding in. So use the CIA and other intelligence assets to positively locate the WMDs - if they exist - and send in the crack teams.

If you invade, you become responsible for the real estate and the masses and nation-building and all that jazz. And you spend billions on that.

Best, I think, to handle this one the old-fashioned way, with spooks backed by our military elite.

Posted by Mister Write 2004-09-14 11:07:41 PM||   2004-09-14 11:07:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 BTW, the moose stew here is great! They are organically grown, heh heh. Ssssssh! Mucky will hear you . . . ; )
Posted by cingold 2004-09-14 11:11:53 PM||   2004-09-14 11:11:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 cingold---**slurp** I will take that under **gulp** advisement.
Posted by Alaska Paul in McGrath, AK 2004-09-14 11:41:17 PM||   2004-09-14 11:41:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#47 It's ok cingold,AP drives a pickup with a PETA bumper sticker- People Eating Tasty Animals.
Posted by GK 2004-09-15 12:03:13 AM||   2004-09-15 12:03:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#48 Old Spook, this sounds as if the chemical attacks happened quite a while ago - before the Sudanese called on the Syrians to remove the chemical material. Is it probable that the camps for training jihadis that are located in the Sudan are very simular to the AQ camps in Afghanistan. The Taliban allowed the camps but didn't directly control the actions of the jihadi Arab-mafia in the camps. These Sudanese camps would have the advantage of being located in close proximity to a population of victims. When the Syrian/Arab thugs decided to try out the gas on the local populous, the Sudanese realized that news of this would be the third-rail for their regime and demanded that the evidence be packed up and returned to Syria. I don't know when in the timeline the Zarqawi attempted chemical attack on Jordan occured.
Posted by Super Hose 2004-09-15 12:51:13 AM||   2004-09-15 12:51:13 AM|| Front Page Top

21:52 007
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