Article

2018-04-15 Britain

Independent Swiss Lab Says 'BZ Toxin' Used In Skripal Poisoning; US/UK-Produced, Not Russian

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2018-04-15 02:06|| || Front Page|| [7 views ] Top

#1 I suppose Russia could make it if they wanted, or maybe some third actor is trying to create problems.

Posted by gorb 2018-04-15 04:58|| 2018-04-15 04:58|| Front Page Top

#2 Not to sound like a broken record, but the incident did take place roughly 6 kilometers from where again ?

Posted by Besoeker 2018-04-15 06:48|| 2018-04-15 06:48|| Front Page Top

#3 Where is the US manufacturing military grade nerve agents (not to be confused with Roundup et al)?

Posted by Procopius2k 2018-04-15 08:28|| 2018-04-15 08:28|| Front Page Top

#4 Proco, the US already has large quantities of BZ. Dugway, Utah, for one. Probably some at the Marshall Islands disposal facility. Also, I would imagine a smaller supply for 'reference' at Ft Deitrich, and also Ft Leonard Woods (where Chemical Corps trains).
The further point I'm curious about is, the whole 'Novichok' (newbie) agent is supposed to be a binary that combines onsite from two relatively safe precursors (the whole point).
There should be unreacted precursor traces around at site.
Where are they?

Posted by ed in texas 2018-04-15 10:56|| 2018-04-15 10:56|| Front Page Top

#5 Done quite a while ago.

Posted by Procopius2k 2018-04-15 11:28|| 2018-04-15 11:28|| Front Page Top

#6 The characteristic that makes BZ an incapacitating rather than a toxic chemical warfare agent is its high safety margin (ICt50/LCt50) of around 40-fold (range 32 to 384 fold).
BZ is odorless and nonirritating with delayed symptoms several hours after contact.

Iraq and Syria were rumored to have a similar product. Wikipedia

Posted by Bobby 2018-04-15 12:05|| 2018-04-15 12:05|| Front Page Top

#7 BZ, BZ, why does that sound familiar? A little history from NBC (no, not NukeBioChem, the disreputable news service.)

BZ GAS was developed by the United States Army at the Edgewood Arsenal in Maryland during the 1950s as a military agent. It later was believed to have capability as a crowd control agent. There are no known detectors for its presence in either indoor or outdoor environments.

Some have speculated that the Russian government used BZ gas as the incapacitating agent to end the Moscow theater siege.

Ah, Nord-Ost! That's why it sounded familiar. The Russians used some sort of anesthetic gas on a theater full of people being held hostage.

This could explain why the Skripals were not dead soon after alleged exposure to an organophosphate agent.

Posted by SteveS 2018-04-15 12:40|| 2018-04-15 12:40|| Front Page Top

#8 SteveS. Thumbs up.

How do the Swiss know what Russia has produced?

Russian disinformation continues apace.

Posted by Percy McCoy4369 2018-04-15 15:10|| 2018-04-15 15:10|| Front Page Top

#9 What the Russians say here could be true. Probably not, but it is possible. The OPCW report says they know what the agent was, but they will not publish that to anyone other than the nation states who are in the organization.

If no other nation state with the info from the OPCW do not disagree with Russia, then Russia should be believed on this.

If this was BZ instead of Novichok then this is a big deal. Not because it absolves the Russians cuz they could do BZ, but because it indites the British for claiming something else.

Posted by rammer 2018-04-15 21:56|| 2018-04-15 21:56|| Front Page Top

#10 broken record

"How heavy the handbag (one's Browning)!
One toddles to Number 10, frowning.
May makes her salaams
And one recommends... alms...
For the bugger that keeps 'Porton Downing.'"

Posted by Zenobia Floger6220 2018-04-15 23:35|| 2018-04-15 23:35|| Front Page Top

23:58 Zenobia Floger6220
23:35 Zenobia Floger6220
23:08 Spirt Henbane9901
21:56 rammer
20:49 Frank G
20:22 746
19:39 swksvolFF
19:12 badanov
18:30 JohnQC
18:23 JohnQC
17:26 gorb
17:25 Glenmore
17:22 Glenmore
17:20 Glenmore
17:18 Glenmore
16:59 Elmeanter Fillmore3035
16:53 Raj
16:02 DarthVader
15:58 DarthVader
15:33 Besoeker
15:32 airandee
15:25 Frank G
15:23 Frank G
15:21 M. Murcek