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2012-10-04 The Grand Turk
Turkey's parliament authorises military action in Syria
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Posted by tipper 2012-10-04 09:02|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [6465 views ]  Top

#1 Considering that documents came out showing that Syria already shot down and killed Turkish pilots, I wouldn't be surprised if Turkey just seized some 30 miles of border and a nice port.
Posted by DarthVader 2012-10-04 09:50||   2012-10-04 09:50|| Front Page Top

#2 Syria used to be part of the Ottoman Empire. It could be again. If Erdogan is really smart, sinister and cunning he could cut a deal to divide Syria and Lebanon with the French.
Posted by Steve White 2012-10-04 10:06||   2012-10-04 10:06|| Front Page Top

#3 I'm kinda surprised they didn't occupy the Hagia Sophia in retaliation.
Posted by Rob Crawford 2012-10-04 10:10||   2012-10-04 10:10|| Front Page Top

#4 ...sinister and cunning he could cut a deal to divide Syria and Lebanon with the French.

The French? Heck, they could solve their Kurdish 'problem' by creating a separate Kurdish state and supporting immigration out of Turkish (and Iraqi/Iranian) territory to it.
Posted by Procopius2k 2012-10-04 10:18||   2012-10-04 10:18|| Front Page Top

#5 The Turk is on the move again. Not a good thing.
Posted by mojo 2012-10-04 11:17||   2012-10-04 11:17|| Front Page Top

#6 Don't expect help from us. Turks did not allow 4ID to cross over to Iraq. Why should we help them?
Posted by Alaska Paul 2012-10-04 11:24||   2012-10-04 11:24|| Front Page Top

#7 Mexican food store on Dizenghoff Str. closed---where the h*ll I'm gonna get jalapeno jelly for my popcorn?!
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2012-10-04 12:20||   2012-10-04 12:20|| Front Page Top

#8 Try dipping the kernels in peanut butter. It tastes great, and you'll be helping our local economy.
Posted by Besoeker 2012-10-04 12:26||   2012-10-04 12:26|| Front Page Top

#9 I don't believe plain butter is suitable to the dignity of the occasion, Besoeker.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2012-10-04 13:52||   2012-10-04 13:52|| Front Page Top

#10 Imagine if Turkey had done this back in 2003 while the US was rolling into Iraq.
Posted by rjschwarz 2012-10-04 14:28||   2012-10-04 14:28|| Front Page Top

#11 g(r)omgoru, amazon supplies the stuff, if international shipping isn't an issue.
Posted by trailing wife 2012-10-04 14:35||   2012-10-04 14:35|| Front Page Top

#12 Gracias, siguiendo esposa.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2012-10-04 14:50||   2012-10-04 14:50|| Front Page Top

#13 This should be amusing. At least abroad, Turkish military men have dined out on the myth of the indomitable Turk for decades. Of course, if they were in fact invincible, the Ottoman Empire would be current geographical fact, rather than historical relic. The truth is a little more prosaic - Turkish forces have taken about 7K KIA while inflicting 28K losses on lightly armed Kurdish militia, since armed hostilities began in 1978.



The myth itself came from the Turkish experience in Korea, where there's less than meets the eye:



Clay Blair: “The Turks, commanded by Brigadier General Tahsin Yazici, had arrived in Korea like the Marines, in a blaze of publicity. With their colorful, flowing mustaches, swarthly complexions, and fierce demeanors, they gave war correspondents and others the impression they were very tough soldiers. The reality was that they were ill trained, ill led, and green to combat”.



Mike Michaelis, CO of the US 27th Infantry Regiment who fought in Korea, described in an elegant style the average Turkish soldier that arrived in Korea to fight: “The Turks were commanded by an aged brigadier who had been a division commander at Gallipoli in 1916 fighting the British! He was highly respected, high up in the Turkish military establishment, and took a bust to brigadier to command the brigade. The average Turk soldier in the brigade came from the steppe country of Turkey, near Russia, had probably had only three or four years of school, was uprooted, moved to western Turkey, given a uniform, [a] rifle, and a little smattering of training, stuck on a ship, sailed ten thousand miles, then dumped off on a peninsula – ‘Korea, where’s that?’ – and told the enemy was up there someplace, go get him! The Turk soldier scratches his head and says, ‘What’s he done to me?’”



Raymond Cartier is more caustic, describing the facts with an undisguised ironical manner: “For the Turks is their first appearance they make in Korea. It was preceded by a bright reputation for their bravery, and even for their fierceness. The first news from their battles are shaking the press offices of the American newspapers. The Turks assaulted using the bayonets, they created a massacre and arrested hundreds of prisoners... Their only mistake is that they picked up the wrong enemy: They considered as Chinese the South Koreans that were retreating. When they meet the real Chinese is their turn to get slaughtered. The remaining of the brigade took refuge at the positions of the 38th Infantry Regiment”



Robert Leckie (whose WWII reminiscences were chronicled in the HBO series "The Pacific") clarifies in a straight manner the purpose for which that Turkish “victory” was treated with so much publicity: “The Turks moved out, and then, after reaching the village of Wawon about seven miles east, were brought to the battle which American newsmen, eager for a victory to report (especially, it seems, if it could be about those “Terrible Turks” of whom Americans knew so little), proclaimed around the globe. No small fight ever won more impressive headlines around the world. The word was flashed that the Turks, meeting the Chinese for the first time, had dealt them a bloody repulse at bayonet point; it was the first stirring bit of news from the November battle. But what precisely happened in the first few hours at Wawon is still an open question. The brigade also boasted the capture of several hundred enemy prisoners from among these first “Chinese” waves. The word gave a lift to the neighbors. Lt. Sukio Oji, a Nisei interpreter, was sent by the 2nd Division to interview the prisoners. Instead of Chinese, he found 200 forlorn ROKs who had blundered into the Turkish column while beating their way back from the fight at Tokcon”.



Clay Blair notes with clarity: “Like the war correspondents, Coulter apparently was mesmerized by the Turks and continued to regard them as superhuman fighters rather than the poorly led green troops that they were. Coulter’s misplaced confidence in the Turks led to disastrous consequences”



Clay Blair reports: “But the truth was that these overrated, poorly led green troops broke and bugged out, again leaving the entire right flank of Eight Army exposed”



The CO of the Porto Rican 65th Regiment later on expressed, using obviously disparaging words, his opinion for the Turkish presence in the battle: “On our left flank we had that reliable, unflappable British Brigade and they really caught hell. [On our right] the Turkish Brigade had fallen back some ten or twelve miles. […] As long as the Turks were on the offensive and the Chinese were running, the Turks were pretty good. But when the going was tough, they were hard to find”.



The reality in Korea was far closer to what any observer of the last century of Turkish history can point out - the Turk will occasionally put up a fight, but his armed formations are not exactly the modern incarnation of Alexander and his Companion Cavalry.
Posted by Zhang Fei 2012-10-04 16:09||   2012-10-04 16:09|| Front Page Top

#14 The Kurds also figure into this prominently. Turkey may be acting to prevent them gaining footholds for their own permanent territory.
Posted by Raider 2012-10-04 16:21||   2012-10-04 16:21|| Front Page Top

#15 Zhang my understanding of the Turkish War Mythos is that it was based on small unit defense only. Mustache wax doesn't do combined arms.
Posted by Shipman 2012-10-04 16:26||   2012-10-04 16:26|| Front Page Top

#16 Well, the Syrians are not exactly new model army.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2012-10-04 17:05||   2012-10-04 17:05|| Front Page Top

#17 Mustache wax doesn't do combined arms.

Engraved in gold upon my heart. What say those who know: is this true for all mustachioed nationalities?
Posted by trailing wife 2012-10-04 19:05||   2012-10-04 19:05|| Front Page Top

#18 This may not end well.

To be sure, Syria may be one the most isolationist or neutralist of Israel's enemies in the Arab League, but when they respond it be sudden + violent.

SYRIA = CHINA = like to give out lots of PCorrect Diplomatic-Media warnings + rhetoric, to include "no comments", THEN ONE DAY THEY WILL SUDDENLY BRUTALLY INTENTIONALLY ATTACK + WIPE OUT OR MASSACRE EVERYBODY. The opposition and only the opposition will held wholly responsible for technically ignoring their warnings, etc.
Posted by JosephMendiola 2012-10-04 23:53||   2012-10-04 23:53|| Front Page Top

00:00 JosephMendiola
23:53 JosephMendiola
23:43 Skidmark
23:41 JosephMendiola
23:39 JosephMendiola
22:38 Mikey Hunt
22:10 DarthVader
21:45 Bright Pebbles
21:37 Old Patriot
21:35 Water Modem
21:07 SteveS
21:03 trailing wife
20:59 SteveS
20:54 Frank G
20:34 SteveS
20:32 Alaska Paul
20:25 Alaska Paul
20:21 SteveS
20:05 Sholusing Pelosi4266
20:01 Anguper Hupomosing9418
19:51 Anguper Hupomosing9418
19:22 Raider
19:20 Raider
19:05 trailing wife
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