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2011-08-07 Home Front: WoT

Notorious Abu Ghraib Guard Released From Prison

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Posted by Sherry 2011-08-07 00:38|| || Front Page|| [11126 views ] Top

#1 Who was Graner's commanding officer? The higher-ups are a better target for our scorn and contempt. The more attention we pay to Graner, the more we line his/his agents' pockets.

Posted by lex 2011-08-07 07:21|| 2011-08-07 07:21|| Front Page Top

#2 They were lex. They were guilty of dereliction of duty in omission. There's an old adage "that which doesn't get inspected, doesn't get done". They flew their desks rather than execute management by walking around. Careers were ended. You really think any employer wants to see that in someone's resume? Future options have been minimized.

Posted by Procopius2k 2011-08-07 07:47|| 2011-08-07 07:47|| Front Page Top

#3 Careers ended? Not enough. They'll bury the memory in public and go on with their lives. There should have been something done on the record, at least a less than honorable discharge.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2011-08-07 08:00|| 2011-08-07 08:00|| Front Page Top

#4 Read P2K's link. something was done, but still not enough.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2011-08-07 08:03|| 2011-08-07 08:03|| Front Page Top

#5 I see four basic problems here.

1) Imprisoning terrorists who should have been executed.
2) Insufficient personnel for the assignment.
3) Lack of an NCO chain of command.
4) Indifference or criminal malignancy by the responsible officers.

Junior enlisted personnel (Graner held the rank of Specialist), cannot be *fully* blamed even for war crimes in the absence of NCO and officer leadership. While they can still be blamed for their actions, their NCOs and officers are fully *responsible* for the behavior of their junior enlisted personnel.

Therefore, if a private commits a war crime, and are punished with a year in prison, their NCO and officer should get at least two years. And it continues up the chain, with the resignation of their commanding officer as well, and maybe the resignation of his commanding officer.

Posted by Anonymoose 2011-08-07 09:19|| 2011-08-07 09:19|| Front Page Top

#6 After the Vietnam war, a lot of people thought of a clever way to ensure there would never be controversial wars again. They figured that if we simply hollowed out the professional active duty military and pushed most functions into the reserves and national guard, we'd only enter wars that had major public support.

Unfortunately, there were a few flaws in that theory. Our active duty military spends a great deal of effort and time instilling and reinforcing strong habits that guide action under the stress of combat situations. Those habits were not deep and fresh in the bulk of the officers and enlisted at abu Ghraib.

Moreover, the Vietnam war was the last example of the kind of warfare epitomized by WWII - draft large numbers of people, rush them through some training, push doctrine and knowhow into detailed op orders and narrow job lanes and let the professionals at the top try to coordinate that into an effective force.

And then, of course, there are things like cell phones with cameras and daily links back home, which challenge (to put it mildly) old notions re: chain of command and information flow.

Yes - there were officers who should have been held more accountable for what happened at abu Ghraib. But the roots go back farther and deeper and still have not been addressed.

Posted by lotp 2011-08-07 09:24|| 2011-08-07 09:24|| Front Page Top

#7 "A Lot Of People" who were primarily led by Colin Powell, who never had to answer for the deficiencies of his Grand Strategy; they were all someone else's fault, of course.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2011-08-07 09:28|| 2011-08-07 09:28|| Front Page Top

#8 "You really think any employer wants to see that in someone's resume?" I believe employers can no longer ask for that information. Nor can it be given if requested of former employer. That's what I have been told anyway.

Posted by Dale 2011-08-07 09:33|| 2011-08-07 09:33|| Front Page Top

#9 Note well, its a resume. If you're apply for a job to toss hamburgers, they're unlikely to ask for one as much as fill out a employment form. If you are seeking a job that entails substantive competitive applications and a salary that is consummate with that, you submit a resume.

Posted by Procopius2k 2011-08-07 10:04|| 2011-08-07 10:04|| Front Page Top

#10 After the Vietnam war, a lot of people thought of a clever way to ensure there would never be controversial wars again. They figured that if we simply hollowed out the professional active duty military and pushed most functions into the reserves and national guard, we'd only enter wars that had major public support.

No. After the first Iraq War Congress and the Executive cut the active Army from 950,000 to 750,000, then on to 480,000. At the same time Congress protected the National Guard from similar cuts. The senior leadership of the Army told both the Executive and Congress, that the next time we went to war the Guard and the reserve were going as well. At the same time both branches took the 'Peace Dividend' leaving barely enough funding for active duty training and sustainment. Throw in stretching what was available for the reserve and Guard force that were not subject the the downsizing and you had even less means to achieve training and readiness. Go back to the last years of the 90s and read issues about readiness and manning.

It's never helped that the Guard Bureau is nearly a separate branch in DoD and has historically been resistant to being held to the same standards as the regulars. The last ten years has seen a lot of reform and turn over in personnel as the units have had to come up to standards to meet the missions. The initial shake out was, as usual, painful.

Posted by Procopius2k 2011-08-07 10:15|| 2011-08-07 10:15|| Front Page Top

#11 I think we're saying much the same thing, P2k. It certainly is true that the active Army was gutted, which does impact training and readiness. But my experience with the guard and reservists early in the 2000s (very limited, yours is no doubt deeper and more informed) suggests that their training and readiness was, in fact, even poorer.

Posted by lotp 2011-08-07 11:06|| 2011-08-07 11:06|| Front Page Top

#12 Here's the timeline.

Here's the findings.

Regarding officer accountability, roughly 25 percent of the adverse punishments to date have been applied against officers, who make up about 16 percent of the total Army force. While there are still officer cases that remain open, to date, the Army has taken the following actions against officers in the ranks of brigadier general to warrant officer:

Brigadier General - Promotion vacated, relief from command, one letter of reprimand

Colonel - One non-judicial punishment

Lieutenant Colonel (four officers) - Two letters of reprimand, two non-judicial punishments

Major (three officers) - Three letters of reprimand, one non-judicial punishment

Captain (10 officers) Three courts-martial, one other than honorable discharge, five letters of reprimand, one non-judicial punishment

1st Lieutenant (four officers) Two courts-martial, one letter of reprimand, one non-judicial punishment

2nd Lieutenant (two officers) - One other than honorable discharge, one letter of reprimand

Chief Warrant Officer 3 - One court-martial

Chief Warrant Officer 2 - One court-martial.

NB - a special and general courts martial convictions are considered a federal felony conviction.

Posted by Procopius2k 2011-08-07 11:23|| 2011-08-07 11:23|| Front Page Top

#13 corrected timeline.

Posted by Procopius2k 2011-08-07 11:26|| 2011-08-07 11:26|| Front Page Top

#14 Thanks, P2K. That didn't get the coverage it deserved, at least I don't recall ever seeing it before.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2011-08-07 11:37|| 2011-08-07 11:37|| Front Page Top

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