Article

2011-03-15 Africa North

France steps up efforts for Libya no-fly zone

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Fred 2011-03-15 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11128 views ] Top

#1 Yokay, I'll bite, I thought RUSSIA [ + Turkey] were agz the NFZ???

Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-03-15 01:18|| 2011-03-15 01:18|| Front Page Top

#2 That's the spirit! Mighty and virile France throws its quivering little queer shoulder to the wheel. AltoGETHER now, PUSH!

A FIRM Decision is "just hours away". Send in the Pitbull!!!

"Some experts say it may take a year for output to recover to its previous level of about 1.6 million barrels per day."

Benghazi should be just fine until then, you betcha. HEY, even Moslems wont do a thing to KaDaffy except scratch itself and think happy thoughts about someday palestine shall be OURS.
The UN is the ANSWER. InterNational Legitimacy and Moslems getting their "respect" back....any day now. Why its all probably just " hours away. "

Surely "somebody will DO something" You with me on this?

Posted by Dribble2716 2011-03-15 10:05|| 2011-03-15 10:05|| Front Page Top

#3 When the FRENCH, THE FREAKING FRENCH FOR GOODNESS SAKES, GAWDALMIGHTY THE DANGED SNIVELING FRENCH are taking the lead on doing the right thing then it is more than just an indicator that we have an empty suit hiding under his desk in the oval office.

CRIMINEY SAKES, THEFREAKINGFRENCH...who'd have thought they had a better moral compass than our administration? No wait, we all knew that when he tried to get ACORN to do the census.

Posted by Bill Clinton 2011-03-15 10:52|| 2011-03-15 10:52|| Front Page Top

#4 France takes ownership of their former colonies in Africa. And President Sarkozy despises President Obama. The surprise is that they are so busily talking instead of just getting on with it. But perhaps that's because Britain has been talking of joining in, or because Libya was in the Italian sphere of influence, not the French... if I have my history right.

Posted by trailing wife 2011-03-15 11:24|| 2011-03-15 11:24|| Front Page Top

#5 Why does he need the world to approve? Just do it.

Because he doesn't want to take action, he just wants to look like he does.

Posted by regular joe 2011-03-15 11:58|| 2011-03-15 11:58|| Front Page Top

#6 Its the fight in the dog, as the saying goes. There could be a number of reasons for a delay, but could take a while to find the weapons' keys, putting together intel gathered over the last three weeks, kicking tires, etc.. and in the meantime playing political cover. I hope so, because at this point any words either way not backed up look weak.

Name me one thing which the situation in the area formally known as Libya which does not benefit the Arab League. They like this, it gives them economic cover, political cover, military coup put-down cover, clandestine cover.

To me, it comes down to who will control the Med. I prefer France, Sarkozy makes himself clear, France has been stretching its legs over the last year and has been picked on second only to the US. I'm sure Turkey has an eye on it. It is unfortunate Burlisconi has had so much glad hand time with Daffy, but I'm sure they would be on-board at least in support if someone else lead. The UK has been there since day one but may be a bit far from the Med to take the lead. The US is benched publically after 2 own-goals in the first 5 minutes, besides his peace prize internationalist lawyer ambitions won't allow it even though half his own party is talking about it.

I see it a bit like curling, the trajectory can be changed but the greatest influence in the opening throw. It is not too late, but it is last call for the first act. The world won't do shit. The UN can't even secure its chocolate and gourmet coffee supply from Ivory Coast. The arab league and whoever complains quit food deliveries, pretty sure who will win that game, watch'em line up. It is my opinion to not invoke MU ownership, the MU is a criss cross of conflicting ideas and alliances.

My take on it anyways, the alternative is a completely hostile north africa, even morocco despite the travel advertisements, who will encourage boat people to travel north or die, shut down the suez and oil at whim, and set up training camps with impunity much closer than pakiland. Guestimate that in 6 years.

The goal is not to set up a western style government, that is unrealistic and far down the road. The locals are only going to understand an islamic based charter...at first. Give them the ability to form a government without a shitpot full of secret police. Raise the literacy rate. Encourage your local descendants to move home and take the lead. Heck, prove the US wrong and show the world how nation building is supposed to go. Point is, any longer on the fence post and ya gonna get stuck. And for civilization's sake if you do get stuck, don't smile about it like Obama. Its tacky.

My take on it at least.

Posted by swksvolFF 2011-03-15 12:43|| 2011-03-15 12:43|| Front Page Top

#7 That's my impression as well. It's like the guy yelling "Let me at 'em" while his friends hold him back. If his friends actually let go, he wouldn't know what to do.

Posted by AuburnTom 2011-03-15 12:47|| 2011-03-15 12:47|| Front Page Top

#8 Could they at least tow the Charles de Gaulle to the Gulf of Sidra?

Posted by Procopius2k 2011-03-15 15:24|| 2011-03-15 15:24|| Front Page Top

#9 The goal is not to set up a western style government, that is unrealistic and far down the road. The locals are only going to understand an islamic based charter...at first. Give them the ability to form a government without a shitpot full of secret police. Raise the literacy rate. Encourage your local descendants to move home and take the lead. Heck, prove the US wrong and show the world how nation building is supposed to go.

The problem with this scenario is that the most organized groups will take over (much like the Bolsheviks after the October revolution). With the death of Baathism and Marxism in the Mid East, the most organized group would be Islamists in the form of the Ikhwan. So we'd effectively have Sunni Khomeinists running the show - unless we have troops on the ground to protect the less organized (and armed) groups, as in Iraq. Meaning we'd have to fight another expensive guerrilla war in a Muslim country.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2011-03-15 18:07|| 2011-03-15 18:07|| Front Page Top

#10 Dribble (aptly named BTW) - did you have to go to drivel school, or is this a natural "talent"? >:-(

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2011-03-15 18:29|| 2011-03-15 18:29|| Front Page Top

#11 Kinda reminds me of the scene in Burn After Reading where the Ruskie tells what's-her-face that the info on the disc is nothing but drivel. And she says, "It's not dribble!"

Posted by Pollyandrew 2011-03-15 19:39|| 2011-03-15 19:39|| Front Page Top

#12 Almost totally agree Zhang Fei, especially about the Iraq model. Europeans had all these opinions on how wrong Iraq was done, here is their chance; especially how unlikely any public US support will be there; where I differ is this would be a primarily EU mission which will require some sort of infantry at some point to affect a stable solution.

At any rate, this will be all but over if the world sits about and waits for a UN Resolution, something which still has not been done for the relatively open and shut case of Ivory Coast, so France et al needs to get it going here dang quick or stfu and pass the buck to the UN for political cover.

Mainly I am trying to see this from a European point of strategy and would love education - am not trying to goad a war but the more I think about it the more it turns into the Petroleum Economic Security Zone and Castle Daffy, and Tribal Everywhere Else..TEE will get organized by somebody and CD has plans to join them to reclaim the PESZ dispensaries and reestablishing Libya Redux 3 economic activities: petroleum, training camps, and Daffy. Dissinters will be rounded up and killed or forced to flee - will they flee across the desert to where the mercs came from, hop east into Egypt, or catch a boat north. I know what I would pick and be claiming asylum the whole pickup at sea, and if they dunkirk for lack of better word a goodly portion will make it to europe where they may or may not fit in. Imagine the North African population of Marseille doubling (or tripling) nearly overnight by men who have just seen combat and feel abandoned by the country they just entered, sounds like fun eh?..unless there is some leadership out there greater than Daffy and it sure ain't Ban Moon. I hope I'm wrong as I usually am.

And yes I put the French soldier up among the best, that raid on the hostage base was ballsy and also sent a quite clear message, and IMHO the euros do have good equipment, prove themselves well when allowed to fight, the battlefield is just right there.

Posted by swksvolFF 2011-03-15 21:51|| 2011-03-15 21:51|| Front Page Top

23:48 USN,Ret
23:41 USN,Ret
23:34 RandomJD
23:33 USN,Ret
23:30 Procopius2k
23:26 trailing wife
23:19 Matt
23:19 USN,Ret
23:11 Procopius2k
23:03 swksvolFF
22:51 trailing wife
22:47 Pappy
22:46 Skidmark
22:43 Skidmark
22:42 Fi
22:39 Zhang Fei
22:31 Zhang Fei
22:08 Fi
22:06 swksvolFF
22:02 Zhang Fei
22:02 Fi
21:56 CincinnatusChili
21:53 CincinnatusChili
21:51 swksvolFF