Article

2010-11-29 Britain

WikiLeaks sparks worldwide diplomatic crisis

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Posted by Steve White 2010-11-29 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11132 views ] Top

#1 I'm guessing that last sentence should be highlighted. I wonder what color it will be. :-)

Posted by gorb 2010-11-29 00:22|| 2010-11-29 00:22|| Front Page Top

#2 The US should tell Sweden (or wherever the Wikileaks founder is a citizen) that they consider this espionage and will consider it an act of war if the spy is not turned over or arrested for the crimes.

Oh, and any Americans who handed over the data should be locked up for life for treason.

This stuff is serious and must end. Otherwise nobody will ever put anything in writing again for fear of it going public.

Posted by rjschwarz 2010-11-29 01:41|| 2010-11-29 01:41|| Front Page Top

#3 Assange is an Australian citizen.
Problem is, you can only commit treason against your OWN country. That's why it will be hard to establish a legal case.
Newspapers publish leaked classified info as well. If you go after Assange you would now have to go against the editors of the NYT, Le Monde, El Pais, Der Spiegel and The Guardian. Zero chance.

It's not illegal to publish classified info of another nation. Imagine a Russian publishing secret documents of the KGB abroad. Nobody would extradite him to Russia.

The KGB (sorry FSB) would find "other" ways though.

Posted by European Conservative 2010-11-29 01:50|| 2010-11-29 01:50|| Front Page Top

#4 The US should tell Sweden (or wherever the Wikileaks founder is a citizen) that they consider this espionage and will consider it an act of war if the spy is not turned over or arrested for the crimes.

Remember who won in 2008.

Posted by JFM 2010-11-29 02:13|| 2010-11-29 02:13|| Front Page Top

#5 There ARE a few questions about that leak and who may have facilitated it.

Posted by European Conservative 2010-11-29 02:40|| 2010-11-29 02:40|| Front Page Top

#6 "he US should tell Sweden (or wherever the Wikileaks founder is a citizen) that they consider this espionage and will consider it an act of war if the spy is not turned over or arrested for the crimes. "

Blaming Wikileaks is like blaming the TV set for the show that is on.

It isn't Wikileaks' fault, it is the fault of a damned traitor or traitors ( I believe there is more than one leak ) who gave away this nation's secret communications.

We should not give him a lethal injection, we should burn him alive at the 50 yard line of the next superbowl.

Posted by crosspatch 2010-11-29 04:36|| 2010-11-29 04:36|| Front Page Top

#7 And yet the US State Department needs to address the issue why it was so easy to copy all these documents.

What ever happened to "need to know"?

Posted by European Conservative 2010-11-29 04:41|| 2010-11-29 04:41|| Front Page Top

#8 this latest leak splurge doesn't seem to have hurt the US for all the hype about how potentially damaging it was going to be.

seems pretty tame really

And it clarifies a lot of things

Governments need scrutiny

For all the talk of how many people Wikileaks might "kill" by exposing them, let's not forget that Governments kill people too, especially with bad decisions.

Scrutiny and turning the light on focuses the mind wonderfully and sometimes brings solutions to problems.

Really do you think the world is better off not knowing that the Saudi King is begging for the US to go to war in Iran?

Or that North Korea has been shipping missiles to Iran through Beijing?

I am glad the public knows that now.

Or that the climate change science was all suspect? That was a wikileak leak as well, remember.

Those who call for Julian Assange to be killed scare me far more than al-Qaeda.

Truly those people are the enemy within, not wikileaks - because that is the enemy of freedom and of keeping the public informed.

Our own governments are the biggest threat to our citizens, in terms of invasion of privacy, taking away freedoms or making bad decisions.

I still believe that for all the problems Wikileaks on balance has been more a force for good than ill.

Those who say they want Assange wiped off the earth or desigated a Terrorist - what do they stand to lose? it is the entrenched elites of the polity who just want to make all the decisions and keep us in the dark, drip fed a variety of censored news by "favoured" reporters.

I don't want to end up with the freedom quotient of North Korea or Russia or CHina

i want the West to respect the public's right to know and to protect whistleblowers even when it makes life uncomfortable!!

Posted by anon1 2010-11-29 05:41|| 2010-11-29 05:41|| Front Page Top

#9 John Kornblum, ex US-ambassador to Germany, said in a German talk show yesterday that 2.5 million people in the U.S. had access to those files.

Are you kidding me? 2.5 million?

You really think the Russian and Chinese do not know about them?

You really need to clean house. If a German diplomat knows that when talking confidentially to a US diplomat, everything he says ends up in a database accessible to millions of people, he would REALLY weigh his words.

Posted by European Conservative 2010-11-29 05:54|| 2010-11-29 05:54|| Front Page Top

#10 250,000 documents and this is the juiciest among them? It's more like the National Enquirer than National Security. While I generally agree with anon1, the real damage this does is discourage future sources from disclosing information for fear they will be revealed. So this needs to stop. Asange needs to die. Soon.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-11-29 06:59|| 2010-11-29 06:59|| Front Page Top

#11 "Asange needs to die"

No. Sorry. If he broke laws, prosecute him.
And he's not Wikileaks. He's just a prominent figure.

And Wikileaks is not the only way to publish stolen documents. Ask the music and movie industry.

First, get your house in order.

Posted by European Conservative 2010-11-29 07:03|| 2010-11-29 07:03|| Front Page Top

#12 Whoever would glorify wikileaks and Assange is either woefully ignorant of the importance of INFOSEC (as anon 1, civilian, can say from the comfort of a chair or couch)...

Or not ignorant but thinks not having any INFOSEC is worthwhile. Either way, you're on the wrong side of history. Smack yourself. Assange and wikileaks are going to get their comeuppance, too.

Posted by Fire and Ice 2010-11-29 07:16|| 2010-11-29 07:16|| Front Page Top

#13 Some have made the interesting observation that so very many of these leaks really haven't shown much of any perfidy by the US, but all sorts of scummy behavior by the leaders of other countries, who are utterly two faced and forked tongued.

As such, the leak does much to "clear the air", by sweeping away many of the facades. This can make diplomacy much easier, as so much effort is put into keeping up appearances that substance is lost.

Posted by Anonymoose 2010-11-29 07:30|| 2010-11-29 07:30|| Front Page Top

#14 This is like saying that poker would be so much easier if all cards dealt could be viewed by anyone anytime.

Posted by European Conservative 2010-11-29 07:37|| 2010-11-29 07:37|| Front Page Top

#15 It is not a revelation that Saudi Arabia is two faced. Actually, none of it is suprising. Except now, diplomacy is set up to fail.

Posted by Fire and ice 2010-11-29 07:52|| 2010-11-29 07:52|| Front Page Top

#16 Well, there is the fat wife.
She knows it. The world knows it.

If you tell her, you're dead :-)

Posted by European Conservative 2010-11-29 08:03|| 2010-11-29 08:03|| Front Page Top

#17 I haven't heard anything on how these were leaked. Disgruntled employee? Hacked server? In any case, some heads should roll at the State Dept.

Posted by Spot 2010-11-29 08:12|| 2010-11-29 08:12|| Front Page Top

#18 Manning, who grabbed it from that database

Posted by European Conservative 2010-11-29 08:29|| 2010-11-29 08:29|| Front Page Top

#19 This is another disaster for which the State Department is significantly (probably mostly) responsible.

and yet, I don't hear the name HILLARY CLINTON mentioned as having any responsibility for this.

Posted by lord garth 2010-11-29 08:34|| 2010-11-29 08:34|| Front Page Top

#20 Actually it's the responsibility of those who created that database.

Manning was not a member of the State Department but he had access like so many others.

Posted by European Conservative 2010-11-29 08:43|| 2010-11-29 08:43|| Front Page Top

#21 Obama should hire Sandy Berger to investigate the leaks.
How could anyone smuggle 250,00 documents out of their pants? I think someone did it electronically.
On a more serious note:
Why doesn't Saudi Arabia knock out Iran on their own? It would raise their level of commitment to the cause. 'Allah' knows they have enough of our planes to do it.

Posted by airandee 2010-11-29 09:00|| 2010-11-29 09:00|| Front Page Top

#22 Let's outsource to the Chinese the shut down of the wikileaks servers and website. Apparently they have been practicing.

Posted by airandee 2010-11-29 09:02|| 2010-11-29 09:02|| Front Page Top

#23 BTW, I did just a little bit of fact checking this morning. Wikileaks was not involved in the climategate emails. They were sent directly from email anonymizers to interested parties (such as Watts Up With That).

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2010-11-29 09:46|| 2010-11-29 09:46|| Front Page Top

#24

First, get your house in order.

By killing the pests. Starting with Assmange.

Posted by Rob Crawford 2010-11-29 09:47|| 2010-11-29 09:47|| Front Page Top

#25 The 'how' is quite well established. A young US soldier who wanted to create worldwide anarchy (his words) was allowed to write them to CDs due to poor security practices. He then uploaded them to the Wikileaks servers.

I tend toward libertarian views. But those who celebrate the publication of these cables need to think long and hard about just what anarchy would bring. It will not be the rich and elite who suffer as a result of the breakdown of order. Tyranical governments are a threat. The lack of any order and security is also a threat, a fact that many in our comfortable modern countries have forgotten.

Posted by lotp 2010-11-29 09:58|| 2010-11-29 09:58|| Front Page Top

#26 Someone who leaks "sensitive" info available to 2.5 million people is not the first guy you should go to. Certainly not menacing to kill him.

You're just hyping his ego.

Also, this affair is handled extremely unprofessionally by HRC.

She should not warn and warn and run around like a scared apologizing chicken.

She should have hold a press conference and mention with a winning smile:

"Oh, btw, next week, some gossip from the basements of our embassies on Wikileak. Enjoy but don't get too bored. Now to some important issue... Christmas is upon us..."

Posted by European Conservative 2010-11-29 10:00|| 2010-11-29 10:00|| Front Page Top

#27 Assange is being investigated by the Australian Govt. Doubt if much will come of it, though.

WIKILEAKS' mastermind, Australian Julian Assange, is being investigated for breaching national security and could be thrown in jail if he ever returns to Australia.

Attorney-General Robert McClelland said yesterday the Australian Federal Police is examining whether revealing 250,000 confidential diplomatic cables could be criminal.

The Government's anger at Assange followed the release on the whistleblower website of secret cables between US diplomats and their allies in Canberra, which revealed that Australians who have "disappeared" in the Middle East have been identified by US authorities and branded as potential terrorists.

Assange was still drip-feeding the classified documents out via his website last night, with the contents of 933 cables from the US embassy in Canberra, 75 from the Melbourne consulate, 12 from the Sydney consulate and 11 from Perth still to be revealed.

Posted by tipper 2010-11-29 10:11|| 2010-11-29 10:11|| Front Page Top

#28 I'm guessing that last sentence should be highlighted. I wonder what color it will be. :-)

Mea culpa. Were you correct, gorb dear?

Posted by trailing wife 2010-11-29 10:13|| 2010-11-29 10:13|| Front Page Top

#29 "Oh, btw, next week, some gossip from the basements of our embassies on Wikileak. Enjoy but don't get too bored. Now to some important issue... Christmas is upon us..."

Indeed, European Conservative, that is what a clever politician or clever diplomat would do, instead of publicly pleading with a man who gleefully turned down similar requests in the recent past. But then, Secretary of State Clinton was qualified for her job by having been a successful politician's wife and an unsuccessful presidential candidate, not by any actual achievement of her own -- typical of those with whom our president has surrounded himself.

Posted by trailing wife 2010-11-29 10:19|| 2010-11-29 10:19|| Front Page Top

#30 Mea culpa. Were you correct, gorb dear?

I wasn't sure. I figured it was either you or AoS. ;-)

Posted by gorb 2010-11-29 10:43|| 2010-11-29 10:43|| Front Page Top

#31 Thanks, lotp. I have heard a lot about the content, but little about how it was gotten in the first place. How did Manning have access to State Dept. material? I find it hard to believe that 2.5 M people had access to it. If that's true, any foreign intelligence agency worth it's salt would already have it.
On a related note, I was at a meeting with someone from the US Army Corps of Engineers. They are prohibited from using USB stick drives for security reasons. However, USB portable hard drives are OK. Go figure.

Posted by Spot 2010-11-29 11:06|| 2010-11-29 11:06|| Front Page Top

#32 There's something about the color 'periwinkle' that always gets my attention!

Posted by Muggsy Glink 2010-11-29 11:31|| 2010-11-29 11:31|| Front Page Top

#33 This is what Ex-Ambassador Kornblum said:

"The documents were apparently taken off an official American internet network, to which 2,5 million persons are said to have access. Ironically, this system was set up after 9/11 to improve international cooperation by ensuring that all relevant information on terrorism would be widely available. But no security system on earth can guarantee safety on a network which offers so many people access to such highly sensitive information. In the highly charged political atmosphere of today's United States, the temptation to make a political point by stealing sensitive information is great."

Link

Posted by European Conservative 2010-11-29 11:33|| 2010-11-29 11:33|| Front Page Top

#34 The bigger threat, per the Department of Homeland Security, music downloads, has been contained. /s

Posted by wr 2010-11-29 11:54|| 2010-11-29 11:54|| Front Page Top

#35 What with Boise St. FGs, Persian nuclear scientists, and all this, we've had a busy weekend.

Stay tuned!

Posted by Halliburton - Mysterious Conspiracy Division 2010-11-29 12:18|| 2010-11-29 12:18|| Front Page Top

#36 Ah, the joys of the paperless office.

Back to the typewriter, carbon paper, and the mimeograph machine.

Posted by KBK 2010-11-29 12:50|| 2010-11-29 12:50|| Front Page Top

#37 Ranking head of the Homeland Security Committee just said on FoxNews "Wikileaks should be declared a Foreign Terrorist Org".
That allows anti-terrorism laws and rules to be used against Wikileaks and Assange.

Posted by Water Modem 2010-11-29 12:50|| 2010-11-29 12:50|| Front Page Top

#38 "The bigger threat, per the Department of Homeland Security, music downloads, has been contained. /s"

Maybe that's the way to go? Copyright infringement? Why is this site still up?

Posted by European Conservative 2010-11-29 13:03|| 2010-11-29 13:03|| Front Page Top

#39 I haven't heard anything on how these were leaked. Disgruntled employee?

Supposedly this Manning character was upset after a fight with his boyfriend.

After seeing the supposed 'worst' of these cables I have to say it looks to me like somebody purposely SET THESE UP to be leaked - somebody who thinks the world's diplomats are a bunch of (NSFW) and wanted to embarass them all. Can't say as how I disagree with that perspective.

Posted by Glenmore 2010-11-29 13:16|| 2010-11-29 13:16|| Front Page Top

#40 Judging only by a quick glance at the headlines, it doesn't look like much of anything has been revealed that we couldn't/haven't have guessed already. Can't see why everybody's getting their panties in a bunch. The only thing that's really shocking is that such a low level operative got his hands on all this data. He should be in jail, of course, but what about his superiors who implemented the lax security policies that let him walk out of the office with CDs and flash drives full of secrets?

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2010-11-29 14:38|| 2010-11-29 14:38|| Front Page Top

#41 I have a hardened flash drive I wear on a ball chain around my neck, use it to carry medical & identifying information. It's about the size of my thumbnail although it's a bit thicker. Most people wouldn't recognize it as such unless they looked really close.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2010-11-29 14:47|| 2010-11-29 14:47|| Front Page Top

#42 Glenmore, keep in mind that the previous set of leaks id'd Afghans working with us, some of whom were killed as a result.

Posted by lotp 2010-11-29 14:55|| 2010-11-29 14:55|| Front Page Top

#43 He should be in jail, of course

Manning's been in solitary for the last seven months.

Posted by KBK 2010-11-29 14:56|| 2010-11-29 14:56|| Front Page Top

#44 Sorry, I see the publication of these documents as an act of war intended to harm the US. The previous leaks revealed little and had little effect. This leak reveals little but will have great effect. Manning should be tried for treason and dealt with appropriately. Asange should become a career enhancer for someone at the CIA. Pour l'encouragement autres. If we don't establish that this won't be tolerated, it will be repeated far more frequently.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-11-29 15:01|| 2010-11-29 15:01|| Front Page Top

#45 In my humble opinion this set of leaks will increase the desire of Iran to take out Saudi and the Gulf States.

If I was NutJob and read those encouragements of war against me I would jump start the action.

Posted by Water Modem 2010-11-29 15:10|| 2010-11-29 15:10|| Front Page Top

#46 Saudi is more likely to go nuclear because of this.

Posted by gorb 2010-11-29 15:40|| 2010-11-29 15:40|| Front Page Top

#47 Saudi is more likely to go nuclear because of this.

I thought the Saudi nuclear devices were stored in Pakistan, labelled "Property of the Government of Pakistan"...

Posted by trailing wife 2010-11-29 16:19|| 2010-11-29 16:19|| Front Page Top

#48 None of you could have guessed that the Soddies want us to take out the Mad Mullahs for them? You don't think NutJob had that figured out already? These people have been mortal enemies for centuries.

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2010-11-29 17:11|| 2010-11-29 17:11|| Front Page Top

#49 I say again: It is not a revelation that Saudi Arabia is two faced. Actually, none of it is surprising. Except now, diplomacy is set up to fail. Yay, good job wikifreaks and traitor private first class Manning.

Posted by Fire and Ice 2010-11-29 17:51|| 2010-11-29 17:51|| Front Page Top

#50 Manning's been in solitary for the last seven months.

As it should be. But if he was able to walk out of his office with a CD then whoever implemented that office's security policy was practically begging him to do it.

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2010-11-29 18:25|| 2010-11-29 18:25|| Front Page Top

#51 And wouldn't it seem that Manning's superiors have some punishment due?

Posted by Fire and Ice 2010-11-29 18:39|| 2010-11-29 18:39|| Front Page Top

#52 NPR today said the punishment for the leaks will be that nobody will tell us things in confidence anymore. They weren't talking so much about spies and informants as about governments and heads of state. Not getting spy information is an invisible cost. When the president of France or the prime minister of Britain won't say anything after the television cameras are turned off, that is a very visible cost.

A cost Mr. Assange was pleased as punch to arrange. He announced two releases back that these leaks were his punishment of the U.S. and its supporters in the War on Terror.

Posted by trailing wife 2010-11-29 19:28|| 2010-11-29 19:28|| Front Page Top

#53 The wikileak isn't all bad. If we can get more publicity for this then Turkey can never be allowed to join the EUSSR

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2010-11-29 19:32|| 2010-11-29 19:32|| Front Page Top

#54 Forbes today had a prediction from Wikileaks: In an exclusive interview earlier this month, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange told Forbes that his whistleblower site will release tens of thousands of documents from a major U.S. financial firm in early 2011. Assange wouldnt say exactly what date, what bank, or what documents, but he compared the coming release to the emails that emerged in the Enron trial, a comprehensive look at a corporations bad behavior.

It will give a true and representative insight into how banks behave at the executive level in a way that will stimulate investigations and reforms, I presume, he told me.
I doubt it. Banks' bad behavior is rather generally known already, and whatever investigations & reforms that have happened, don't amount to much. The US Dept. of Justice and the states' Attorneys General continue to sleep like Chthulu.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2010-11-29 19:34|| 2010-11-29 19:34|| Front Page Top

#55 Collateral deaths aside, it will be interesting to see how the world works if this avenue of communication suddenly disappears. It might force folks to be more practical and communicative instead of dancing around in the shadows. It might be that folks will stop playing head games with the US, and that our politicians will grow up and start doing more practical things.

Julian Assange told Forbes that his whistleblower site will release tens of thousands of documents from a major U.S. financial firm in early 2011

I'm fine with that. Everyone knows their ranks should have been decimated, along with a bunch of corrupt politicians for enabling the situation.

Posted by gorb 2010-11-29 21:23|| 2010-11-29 21:23|| Front Page Top

#56 Banks' bad behavior is rather generally known already,

So is everything else WikiLeaks has released about, for those who were paying the slightest bit of attention.

Posted by trailing wife 2010-11-29 22:44|| 2010-11-29 22:44|| Front Page Top

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