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2010-05-21 China-Japan-Koreas
Norks Threaten All-Out War" Over Cheonan Report
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Posted by Steve White 2010-05-21 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11131 views ]  Top

#1 You've watched it,
you've seen it, the cockroach scurrying across the floor,
when you turn on the light.
What do you do?

WELL THE LIGHTS ON.
Posted by Skidmark 2010-05-21 00:41||   2010-05-21 00:41|| Front Page Top

#2 How do you say "Bring It" in Korean?
Posted by OldSpook 2010-05-21 00:49||   2010-05-21 00:49|| Front Page Top

#3 You don't. You offer your behind & hope that Juche works as well as a lub as it does as a no wax floor cleaner.
Posted by Adriane 2010-05-21 03:45||   2010-05-21 03:45|| Front Page Top

#4 haven't they already committed an act of war?

must be some generals want to tip the country to war to get rid of Kimmie. They are sick of him.

On another matter: I linked to Facebook's "Everybody draw Mohammed day" to celebrate free speech yesterday.

Now I find the facebook link no longer works, it redirects me back to my own facebook page, no matter if I click from FB or from google search results.

I've seen NO story on it.

Does anybody know if Australia is cracking down on free speech on the Internet? Is this just Australia? Or is it happening if you try to access it from the US also?

Cheers,
Anon1
Posted by anon1 2010-05-21 04:18||   2010-05-21 04:18|| Front Page Top

#5 Facebook took the page down.
Posted by Deacon Blues 2010-05-21 07:26||   2010-05-21 07:26|| Front Page Top

#6 Thanks Deacon Blues

I guess the forces of unfreedom won.
Posted by anon1 2010-05-21 07:41||   2010-05-21 07:41|| Front Page Top

#7 Funny thing is , it probably got pulled becasue of the threat of 'inciting hatered'

Oooh the irony

Back on topic .

Seems to me a proxy war (through NK) for China would be a good way to measure western defensive and offensive capabilities , whilst managing the situation in the background , and probably stitching Kim up in the process

Posted by Oscar 2010-05-21 08:10||   2010-05-21 08:10|| Front Page Top

#8 ...to completely wipe out the base of the traitorous clique

Nice commie rhetoric - I give it a 7.8.
Posted by Raj 2010-05-21 08:13||   2010-05-21 08:13|| Front Page Top

#9 Anon1, I don't know about the actual pages but I've seen a lot of posts with Mohammed drawings. My personal favorite was one with its face tattooed on a camel's ass.
Posted by Lowspark 2010-05-21 09:01||   2010-05-21 09:01|| Front Page Top

#10 A full war might actually snap the South Korean civilians back to reality.

Plus the North would be whipped pretty good and collapse.
Posted by DarthVader 2010-05-21 09:47||   2010-05-21 09:47|| Front Page Top

#11 the S Kors demonstrated the first time that they have NO backbone for fighting the N Kor's. No backbone really at all.S Korea could ,at this point ,be moot regarding the communist threat that created the 2 Koreas in the first place. We waste manpower and rescources to prop up a hopelessly corrupt goverment ( S Kor ) and what do we get for it : Kia's?! not worth the price of admission
Posted by Captain Ulosing4107 2010-05-21 10:16||   2010-05-21 10:16|| Front Page Top

#12 You seem awfully judgemental, considering the South Koreans get to choose between any sort of justice and the continued existance of Seoul. Thanks to all of OUR bad decisions, North Korea has a nuclear deterrent and South Korea doesn't. Acting judgemental towards South Korea for its choosing any of a number of awful decisions, such as you have done, is IMHO the actions of a pathetically obtuse little man who probably has never had any real responsibilities in your life.
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2010-05-21 11:14||   2010-05-21 11:14|| Front Page Top

#13 I've said it before: Democrat presidents are the ones most likely to get us into a war. They project weakness thereby encouraging our enemies to become even more aggressive. Could be the commies just want to test Obama's mettle. If he was anything like Reagan he'd threaten the Norks with utter devastation. Everybody would say he's crazy and dangerous but the Norks would back down.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2010-05-21 11:37||   2010-05-21 11:37|| Front Page Top

#14 And this all depends on your thinking. If you believe the U.S. is responsible for protecting everyone like we're in Southern Italy and the U.S. is running a protection racket, then yes, we have let the SKOR down. But if you believe each individual and nation is responsible for protecting themself/itself, then no, it is on SKOR to provide its own protection against its rabid neighbors, or at least fill in the gaps in our services. Personally, I feel sympathy to a degree, but its not like SKOR has Canada as northern neighbors. SKOR is soft. I lived there and I think they defer too much responsibility to the U.S., meanwhile living the high life partying, drinking, importing hookers and indentured servants. SKOR is out of touch and may well go down the tubes. Some very sweet people will pay the price for the decadent ones.
Posted by GirlThursday 2010-05-21 11:51||   2010-05-21 11:51|| Front Page Top

#15 haven't they already committed an act of war?

Actually, they've committed plenty of acts of war over the years. From what I've heard, it was the U.S. that never let the South Korean army respond... and it remains to be seen whether President obama will allow anything beyond going to the U.N. for more useless sanctions.
Posted by trailing wife 2010-05-21 12:23||   2010-05-21 12:23|| Front Page Top

#16 My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that we have only a token force in Korea so the bulk of the defense would be on the SKORS. If they can't hack it they might be in trouble especially with a twerp like Obama in the White House. But I've heard differing opinions on the state of the SKOR military. Some say they are badass tough. Others say they are soft. It'd be a shame if we have to find out. I still think peace through strength is a sound policy but Obama doesn't look strong.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2010-05-21 12:27||   2010-05-21 12:27|| Front Page Top

#17 Girl Thursday: The South Korean army is larger than the American one, in spite of the fact that their country is much smaller. From what I've heard from US Army people who have worked with them, their troops are very tough.

But simply put, the international legal environment has lead to a situation where North Korea has The Bomb, and South Korea _doesn't_. We helped enforce that, our carrots and our sticks _and_ our promise of a nuclear umbrella are why South Korea never developed The Bomb for their own, despite being capable of doing so. This leads to an unbalanced situation where it doesn't matter how tough the South Korean army is or isn't, the North is guaranteed existance no matter how much of a ^&%up they really are.
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2010-05-21 12:29||   2010-05-21 12:29|| Front Page Top

#18 Frankly, South Kor needs to act on its own behalf and kick us out like they picket and threaten to do all the time. Healing will only come when the 'delicate balance' is disturbed. Then SKorea can face its enemy and reckoning can begin. The U.S. needs our troops elsewhere anyway- like our border with Mexico, IMHO!!! Who is going to help US out with that?
Posted by GirlThursday 2010-05-21 12:30||   2010-05-21 12:30|| Front Page Top

#19 And BTW, trying to estimate our troop, equipment and missile strength in the peninsula is useless. You, I, and everyone, unless you have the clearance, don't have the facts.
Posted by GirlThursday 2010-05-21 12:33||   2010-05-21 12:33|| Front Page Top

#20 And BTW, trying to estimate our troop, equipment and missile strength in the peninsula is useless. You, I, and everyone, unless you have the clearance, don't have the facts.

I wasn't talking about the penninsula. I was talking about absolute sizes. We have some fifteen divisions of active-duty infantry; they have twenty-eight or so.

Frankly, South Kor needs to act on its own behalf and kick us out like they picket and threaten to do all the time. Healing will only come when the 'delicate balance' is disturbed. Then SKorea can face its enemy and reckoning can begin. The U.S. needs our troops elsewhere anyway- like our border with Mexico, IMHO!!! Who is going to help US out with that?

So you're basically going to be happy to have set up a situation where the South Koreans are dependent on the US nuclear deterrent to keep North Korea at bay and then leave?
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2010-05-21 12:42||   2010-05-21 12:42|| Front Page Top

#21 And it's not like we're short the troops to secure the border with Mexico anyway, we just lack the will to use them.
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2010-05-21 12:44||   2010-05-21 12:44|| Front Page Top

#22 No, I said SKor should kick us out like manyu disgruntled citizens yearn for and threaten to do. And then they can begin to build their own arsenal once the gridlock is over. And we lost 55,000 there, lets not forget. What has SKor really done for us lately?
Posted by GirlThursday 2010-05-21 12:55||   2010-05-21 12:55|| Front Page Top

#23 In that situation the North has a strong chance of getting ahold of the manufacturing infrastructure of the South. You remember manufacturing, it's one of those things we used to do for ourselves in previous centuries.
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2010-05-21 13:10||   2010-05-21 13:10|| Front Page Top

#24 Perish the thought. At the risk of sounding flip, Maybe Skor should try to manufacture things like bombs in addition to cell phones and Hyundais.
Posted by Richelieu  2010-05-21 13:38||   2010-05-21 13:38|| Front Page Top

#25 They manufacture very good rifles, tanks, APC's, destroyers, warplanes, and other equipment. The only thing they're missing from their portfolio, really, is nuclear bombs.
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2010-05-21 14:36||   2010-05-21 14:36|| Front Page Top

#26 Actually, it was about 36,000 American deaths. The bean counters just threw in a losses in the period in one big number. They corrected it a number of years back, but the old number cited still floats around because its near the same number as Vietnam.

As for what the SKors have done. Sent troops to fight along side Americans in S.Vietnam. Was one of the largest troop commitments to the recent operations in Iraq and will now send troops to Afghanistan. They've been there.

The NKors know that if they actually initiate a conflict, they're toast. They play the game of the little sister smacking her bigger brother knowing that mom won't allow real retaliation.

What the SKors can do is a partial mobilization and deployment up to the border. That would force the NKors to preposition materials as well which would drain their meager resources for just about anything involving food and fuel, diverting it from critical infrastructure sustainment. Then have the Chinese graciously 'defuse' the situation allowing everyone to stand down. The NKors however will find they have a lot less material to make do with the next day. It'll get the point home. With the internal fight going on inside Pyongyang, the players will think twice before eating up critical resources with another such display with repeated consequences that they may need in their hierarchical positioning game.
Posted by Procopius2k 2010-05-21 17:56||   2010-05-21 17:56|| Front Page Top

#27 This: If you want to get technical with no citation its around 30,000 U.S. KIA and around 5,000 MIA and 92,000 wounded.

As for the commitment in Viet Nam, point blank, bucket meet your drop of water?

Approximately 320,000 South Korean soldiers were sent to Vietnam, each serving a one year tour of duty. Maximum troop levels peaked at 50,000 in 1968, however all were withdrawn by 1973.[191] About 5,000 South Koreans were killed and 11,000 were injured during the war. Nice assist, but an appalling comparison in terms of sacrifice.

All said, the longer SKor uses us as a crutch the longer this charade can continue. I still assert that South Korea should be responsible for their own security, and have the technological, scientific and manufacturing know-how to do it. Given time, and the beginnings of a scheduled "phase out" of our troops they should be making bombs like a one legged man in a kicking contest. However, our presence dulls the incentive. Call me heartless, I see only a thorough shake up would wake the complacent out of their slumber. Or they can continue getting picked off by Norks. Choice is theirs.

And this:
'Proceeding against the advice of my cardiologist, I must concede that for once, Ron Paul is actually on to something. The ground component of U.S. Forces Korea costs U.S. taxpayers billions of dollars a year to maintain. It is just as unaffordable as a political liability on the South Korean street. We should withdraw it. Every Saturday night off-post brawl is a headline in the muck-raking Korean press, for which the American soldier is inevitably blamed, and for which angry mobs perpetually demand renegotiations of the Status of Force Agreement to give Korea’s not-even-remotely-fair judicial system more jurisdiction over American soldiers.

The South Korean people do not appreciate the security our soldiers provide. The way some of them treat our soldiers ought to be a national scandal. Many off-post businesses don’t even let Americans through their front doors. The degree of anti-Americanism in South Korea is sufficient to be a significant force protection issue in the event of hostilities.

South Korea does not have our back. South Korea made much of the fact that it sent 3,000 soldiers to Iraq, where they sat behind concrete barriers in a secure Kurdish area of Iraq, protected by peshmerga, making no military contribution and taking no combat casualties. Their contribution to the effort in Afghanistan has been negligible, which is more than can be said of their contribution to the Taliban (previous President Roh Moo Hyun reportedly paid them a ransom of up to $20 million in 2007 to free South Korean hostages who took it upon themselves to charter a shiny new bus to bring Christianity to Kandahar). South Korea has been an equally unsteady ally against China.

The American security blanket has fostered a state of national adolescence by the South Korean public. Too many of them (some polls suggest most) see America as a barrier to reunification with their ethnic kindred in the North. Maybe nothing short of a North Korean attack on the South can encourage more sober thinking by South Koreans about their own security, but I suspect a greater sense of self-reliance and even vulnerability might.'

http://newledger.com/2010/04/25646/
Posted by GirlThursday 2010-05-21 18:41||   2010-05-21 18:41|| Front Page Top

#28 GT, if you go back over my numerous posts, I've advocated the withdraw or significant draw down of American forces from first world countries and alliances for quite a while. Yes, it is time for others to do their own security. However, I will not denigrate contributions they've made in the absence of other countries who contributed nothing in the fight against the threats.

As to the Korean people, the older people still remember. It's the younger generation that has no appreciation for what was given. Any different than the Euros in large part today? This Eastern European generation has appreciation for American resolve that liberated them, the the Western societies are long beyond the devastation of WWII and the Marshall Plan to care. How much different is that really from our own population that takes granted the payment in losses to preserve a Constitution that so many treat was nothing more than a piece of paper that stands between them and doing what they want to do. It's the old saying, familiarity breeds contempt.

Too many of them (some polls suggest most) see America as a barrier to reunification with their ethnic kindred in the North.

I was in Korea in 1988 when the youths played the game. The American Commander in country had the guts to point out that we had reunified the country in November 1950. That it was the intervention of a couple hundred thousand Chinese that resulted in the division. The usual suspects dropped that line for a while afterward.

If you want citation, try this.
Posted by Procopius2k 2010-05-21 19:29||   2010-05-21 19:29|| Front Page Top

#29 TFSM, the trheat to Seoul is basedon NKor artillery.

Seriously, what do you think the life expectancy of an NKor artilleryman crewing that stuff that's capable of firing 30KM? Or those supplying the ammo? The minute one shell comes up on firefinder wiht a hostile trajectory, over the border counterbattery begins that is much more accurate than they anticipate.

I am not denying Seoul would take damage, but not such that it would be irreparable. Bit its also pretty clear that it would NOT be advisable to be servile against a threat that will get better with its nukes over time, as the conventional capacity declines.

As for Nukes they've fired off 2 duds under fully controlled test conditions - so how much confidence would you have in a full detonation in a combat launch or drop? Plus their launch vehicles have proven unreliable and unstable. And finally, a nuke there would provoke a nuclear response from the US against Pyongyang and a suitable number of warheads aimed at Dear Leaders (concrete) hole.

Whats left of them would be hung as war criminals.

Make that fate clear to them AND the Chinese.
Posted by OldSpook 2010-05-21 21:06||   2010-05-21 21:06|| Front Page Top

#30 ION NEWS KERALA/TOPIX > NORTH KOREA: PENINSULAR HEADING TOWARDS WAR + NORTH KOREA WARNS OF ]ALL-OUT WAR EVEN AS CHINA URGES CAUTION [NK warns it will not hesitate to attack] + NORTH KOREA THREATENS TO FREEZE RELATIONS, END ARMISTICE/
RESUME WAR AGZ SOUTH.
Posted by JosephMendiola 2010-05-21 22:55||   2010-05-21 22:55|| Front Page Top

00:13 OldSpook
23:57 OldSpook
23:32 JosephMendiola
23:24 JosephMendiola
23:21 JosephMendiola
23:19 gorb
23:17 JosephMendiola
23:16 gorb
23:14 lex
23:11 gorb
23:06 gorb
23:05 lex
22:55 JosephMendiola
22:49 JosephMendiola
22:45 JosephMendiola
22:43 gorb
22:34 gorb
22:34 Perfesser
22:33 gorb
22:25 Asymmetrical
22:21 Frank G
22:15 Lumpy Elmoluck5091
22:04 JosephMendiola
22:00 Asymmetrical









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