Article

2009-06-16 Europe

Moaning German soldiers an 'embarrassment' say chiefs

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2009-06-16 11:54|| || Front Page|| [3 views ] Top

#1 Siegfried: Idiots! Dummkopfs! Sissies!
-- Get Smart (1965)

Posted by mojo 2009-06-16 12:56|| 2009-06-16 12:56|| Front Page Top

#2 Hmm, they hate responsibility?

Just wondering, but do they have the authority to match their responsibilities in the first place?

I've heard that can cause problems.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-06-16 14:15|| 2009-06-16 14:15|| Front Page Top

#3 Could it be that those sleeping bags WERE of poor quality and someone bitched and exposed poor procurement policies that embarrassed the General? And that the politicians will NOT allow the troops to be responsible?

Posted by tipover 2009-06-16 14:23|| 2009-06-16 14:23|| Front Page Top

#4 Somewhere, the ghosts of Gebhard Liebrecht von Blücher, Ludwig Adolf Wilhelm von Lützow, and both Helmuth von Moltkes are weeping bitter tears of shame.

Posted by Mike 2009-06-16 14:29|| 2009-06-16 14:29|| Front Page Top

#5 @tipover

you have a point. It has been widely reported how inadequate equipment is in Bosnia or Kosovo.

There IS a dofference when you are drafted and serve in Afghanistan, and NOT fighting for the survival of your country against Soviet invaders.

US troops are all professional instead and I think we should do that, too.

We don't need hundredthousands of drafted youngsters, we need a highly motivated professional army.

Lean but mean.

Posted by European Conservative 2009-06-16 14:29|| 2009-06-16 14:29|| Front Page Top

#6 And another thing:

The work German troops do abroad is not appreciated and honored back home - neither by politicians nor in the media.

You never hear about medals given for bravery, their hands are tied and those who have died are flown home in secrecy and treated like that was some kind of accident.

If troops "lack discipline", it's not the troops fault but that of those leading them.

And if you send German troops to the Congo you better motivate them well.

Posted by European Conservative 2009-06-16 14:34|| 2009-06-16 14:34|| Front Page Top

#7 Well, when you're in the jungle, and your government insists that you carry the same sleeping bag suitable for northern Europe...I'd be pissed too.

Posted by gromky 2009-06-16 14:42|| 2009-06-16 14:42|| Front Page Top

#8 EC:

Lots of dynamics in play here. The elan, and espirit de corps of the German ranker has long been muted and in some instances extinguished. It has much to do with post WWII military prohibitions, public sentiment and political attitudes regarding German history in the 20th history. The Germans, French, and Italian soldier are not much different than our own. Soldier bitching is a good thing. It is when the stop bitching that one should have cause for concern.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-06-16 14:51|| 2009-06-16 14:51|| Front Page Top

#9 Could 65% of the German Army belonging to the Bundeswehrverband Union have anything to do with it's performance?

Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2009-06-16 14:54|| 2009-06-16 14:54|| Front Page Top

#10 Can't help, GBUSMC.

Posted by tipover 2009-06-16 14:58|| 2009-06-16 14:58|| Front Page Top

#11 I have first hand info about troops in Afghanistan.

An example. Troops are there to protect a girls school. Local Taliban assholes come and tell the school principal: Close or we kill your girls.

The principal goes to the local commander and asks what can be done. The Talibs are known. The commander - one of those who makes his own decision - sends a few troops who will protect the school and tells his boys to shoot an Taliban trying to enter. The boys are motivated to do just that. The Talibs give the school a wide berth.

What happens next? The commander is reprimanded and ordered to withdraw the troops "because he's putting them "in danger". The commander says if troops cannot be put "in danger" for a good cause he doesn't see the point in having them here in the first place. The troops even offer to guard the school on their free time. No chance. The troops are withdrawn.

A few days later the Talibs return and throw molotov cocktails into the (empty) school, threatening that next time they will do it when the girls are there. The principal closes the school.

And now they blame those troops that they "lack discipline" and "hate responsibility"?

Of course the General forgot to include that incident in his report. Sleeping bags are safer issues.

Posted by European Conservative 2009-06-16 15:32|| 2009-06-16 15:32|| Front Page Top

#12 I'm sure the EU bureaucrats are absolutely convinced that if these same soldiers were in an EU army, instantly and overnight, they would be the best soldiers in the world.

Or at least that is what their status reports would say.

Posted by Anonymoose 2009-06-16 18:50|| 2009-06-16 18:50|| Front Page Top

#13 An EU army would make the blue helmets look good

Posted by European Conservative 2009-06-16 19:38|| 2009-06-16 19:38|| Front Page Top

23:08 746
23:03 746
22:48 trailing wife
22:47 tipover
22:40 trailing wife
22:33 trailing wife
22:06 Justrand
21:59 Anguper Hupomosing9418
21:58 Atomic Conspiracy
21:55 trailing wife
21:43 Rambler in Virginia
21:39 trailing wife
21:38 Frank G
21:34 mojo
21:20 DarthVader
21:05 Pappy
20:59 Pappy
20:40 eLarson
20:18 GirlThursday
20:08 GirlThursday
20:05 airandee
20:02 European Conservative
19:58 Cornsilk Blondie
19:46 European Conservative