Article

2009-06-01 Europe

Air France passenger jet vanishes from radar

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Posted by Oztralian 2009-06-01 06:50|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [336070 views ] Top

#1 Let me state the obvious - this ain't good. 228 people don't just dissapear.

Posted by Mizzou Mafia 2009-06-01 07:36|| 2009-06-01 07:36|| Front Page Top

#2 Oceanic flight 815?

Posted by Spot">Spot 2009-06-01 08:15|| 2009-06-01 08:15|| Front Page Top

#3 228 people don't just disappear.

Ever check the voter rosters in Washington State?

Posted by Procopius2k 2009-06-01 08:31|| 2009-06-01 08:31|| Front Page Top

#4 From Breitbart:

A missing Air France passenger jet with 228 people on board was probably struck by lightning and suffered an electrics failure as it flew through a fierce Atlantic storm, the firm said Monday.

I honestly thought high-flying airliners took care not to fly through fierce storms. Let us all hope this isn't a cover story for something more sinister.

Posted by Steve White 2009-06-01 09:04|| 2009-06-01 09:04|| Front Page Top

#5 One theory from reports I've read is that the plane may have been hit by lightning. I recall an American plane went down in the Everglades decades ago when lightning hit the control panel.

Lightning hit my plane years ago on a trip from L.A. to Chicago. We made an emergency landing in Kansas City and deplaned in the middle of the runway away from the main gates. The damage was a black hole just below the cockpit on the pilot's side and a black streak (burn mark) the length of the fusilage. I remember hearing a loud crash-type noise and then the entire fusilage on the inside lit up for a split second. Neither of the pilots nor the navigator had ever experienced being hit by lightning, but surmised immediately that was what happened.

Posted by Zorba 2009-06-01 09:13|| 2009-06-01 09:13|| Front Page Top

#6 Isn't that something. Glad it turned out that well Zorba.

Posted by Girlthursday 2009-06-01 09:24|| 2009-06-01 09:24|| Front Page Top

#7 Procopius2k : that's classic

Posted by 746 2009-06-01 09:35|| 2009-06-01 09:35|| Front Page Top

#8 GT - I don't think lightning is a problem unless it hits the controls (as it was explained to me). Flying almost daily, I had worse experiences -- cockpit fires, blown tires on landing, etc. Fortunately for me at that time, Continental employed pilots that were the best of the best. Many of the pilots I flew with were ex-fighter pilots and very experienced. Plus, I was too young and stupid to be scared LOL.

Posted by Zorba 2009-06-01 09:40|| 2009-06-01 09:40|| Front Page Top

#9 zorba did they have too let the pilot and co pilot change their pants on the etarmac

Posted by funky skunk 2009-06-01 10:40|| 2009-06-01 10:40|| Front Page Top

#10 "228 people don't just disappear.

Ever check the voter rosters in Washington State?"

I catch your drift, P2k, but I think it's more likely those "voters" appeared than disappeared.... ;-p

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2009-06-01 11:20|| 2009-06-01 11:20|| Front Page Top

#11 Depends on their party Barb.

Posted by CrazyFool 2009-06-01 11:26|| 2009-06-01 11:26|| Front Page Top

#12 Good point, CF. ;-p

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2009-06-01 12:13|| 2009-06-01 12:13|| Front Page Top

#13 They voted the straight Hanso Foundation ticket.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-06-01 12:16|| 2009-06-01 12:16|| Front Page Top

#14 It's always amating how quick authorities are to "rule out" a terrorist act when they actually know next to nothing about what happened.

As a matter of fact you can't rule out a bomb on board at this time. That lightning would strike out all redundant electricity systems on board is possible but extremely rare. Turbulences can bring down a plane but the pilot should be able to set off a mayday signal.

That he was not able to do so does at least not rule out a bomb just because the plane was facing bad weather.

Posted by European Conservative 2009-06-01 14:02|| 2009-06-01 14:02|| Front Page Top

#15 Brazilian Defense officials have just reported the aircraft had a loss in cabin pressurization along with the electrical problem. Storms and air turbulence aside, it seems like a lot to go wrong all at one time.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-06-01 14:15|| 2009-06-01 14:15|| Front Page Top

#16 A bomb usually DOES make a lot of things go wrong at one time.

Not speculating here but to rule out a terrorist attack is the usual kneejerk reaction.

Accidents at cruising altitude are actually quite rare.

Posted by European Conservative 2009-06-01 14:21|| 2009-06-01 14:21|| Front Page Top

#17 cf Bojinka

Posted by Seafarious 2009-06-01 14:31|| 2009-06-01 14:31|| Front Page Top

#18 OK, getting serious for a sec.

Why would anyone be bombing a Brazilian airliner? Or a French one?

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-06-01 14:36|| 2009-06-01 14:36|| Front Page Top

#19 Sounds absurd huh? As if France had any radical Muslims?

Posted by European Conservative 2009-06-01 14:41|| 2009-06-01 14:41|| Front Page Top

#20 Google "tri-border"

Posted by European Conservative 2009-06-01 14:42|| 2009-06-01 14:42|| Front Page Top

#21 The big AQ plan that was broken up twice was to have simultaneous denotations of bombs on 11 aircraft heading to or from Europe. The carrier does not matter, the country of origin does not matter, isolating Europe in fear is what mattered. This is more than likely an accident but AQ did have plans on aircraft bombings.

God bless the crew, passengers, and their families.

Posted by 49 Pan 2009-06-01 15:16|| 2009-06-01 15:16|| Front Page Top

#22 Why would anyone be bombing a Brazilian airliner? Or a French one?

Guess you missed Rantburg last week. Can't rule it out or in till there's more to consider.

Posted by Procopius2k 2009-06-01 15:20|| 2009-06-01 15:20|| Front Page Top

#23 I believe that Euro Con is talking about this.

Posted by Secret Master 2009-06-01 15:40|| 2009-06-01 15:40|| Front Page Top

#24 It seems rather unlikely to me that a lightning strike would incapacitate ALL electrical circuits on board and impede any communication until the plane went down. There are too many redundant systems on board working independently.

Turbulences at cruising altitude are usually avoided but even if they brought the plane down they can't do it that fast. The crew would always be able to communicate.

A lot of worst case scenarios would have to happen simultaneously.

A bomb instead at this altitude could break a plane apart so fast that no mayday call might be possible.

All I'm saying is that to rule this out is simply not called for. Without the black box we actually might never find out.

Posted by European Conservative 2009-06-01 15:48|| 2009-06-01 15:48|| Front Page Top

#25 Nothing in the news indicates any Mayday call was made. From CNN dot com: But about 4:15 a.m. Paris time, Flight 447's automatic system began a four-minute exchange of messages to the company's maintenance computers, indicating that "several pieces of aircraft equipment were at fault or had broken down," he said.

"This succession of messages signals a totally unforeseeable, great difficulty," he said. "Something quite new within the plane."
During that time, there was no contact with the crew, Gourgeon said
So apparently 4 minutes of automatic messages were received from the plane before it went silent.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2009-06-01 17:43|| 2009-06-01 17:43|| Front Page Top

#26 Surely under normal emergency conditions people would be calling out on their cell phones?

Posted by trailing wife 2009-06-01 18:36|| 2009-06-01 18:36|| Front Page Top

#27 On the case:

Posted by Mizzou Mafia 2009-06-01 18:37|| 2009-06-01 18:37|| Front Page Top

#28 I guess it's possible lightning could have burned out all the flight computers and comms, but it's strange the diagnostic computer and satcom (I'm assuming) were left functional. Strange.

cell phones?
Middle of the Atlantic.

Posted by ed 2009-06-01 18:45|| 2009-06-01 18:45|| Front Page Top

#29 Strange.
Suspiciously strange.

Posted by ed 2009-06-01 18:47|| 2009-06-01 18:47|| Front Page Top

#30 Lightning strikes on planes used to be pretty common. I was on a plane out of Chicago 25 or so years ago that was struck by lightning twice. Terrific bang, lights go out and engines power down, presumably all the electricals cut out. Then a few seconds later lights come on and engines power up again.

Anyway. Planes were designed to handle lightning strikes.

Lightning strikes may be less common today because radar can route planes away from lightning areas.

I expect current planes are at least as safe as previous generations in a lightning strike, which suggests terrorism to me.

Posted by Phil_B 2009-06-01 21:32|| 2009-06-01 21:32|| Front Page Top

#31 At least I'd say that Occam's Razor would suggest that

Posted by European Conservative 2009-06-01 21:45|| 2009-06-01 21:45|| Front Page Top

#32 Yes, I know about the tri-border area, and the guy recently released in Brazil, and that France has moslem radicals.

What I was asking was, why attack Brazil in this manner, if they're asleep and de facto letting them have some sort of sanctuary, why attack them?

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-06-01 23:28|| 2009-06-01 23:28|| Front Page Top

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