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2009-06-01 Britain
Coming Soon: An English Revolution
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Posted by Steve White 2009-06-01 00:00|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [10795 views ]  Top

#1 Not being British, I don't understand the level of outrage over this issue. Maybe that electorate was just looking for an excuse to vote the rascals out.
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2009-06-01 01:34||   2009-06-01 01:34|| Front Page Top

#2 Revolutions happen when a system suffers a major loss of political legitimacy.

Not that the pols understand that. They simply believe all they have to do is issue orders and perform the proper rituals of government to rule. Those who rule and those they rule are simply the 'natural' division of hierarchy to them. How dare the serfs become uppity. It was all done for their own good. /sarc off
Posted by Procopius2k 2009-06-01 07:47||   2009-06-01 07:47|| Front Page Top

#3 A successful revolution is rare. A successful revolution by an unarmed populace is even rarer.
Posted by Glenmore 2009-06-01 08:56||   2009-06-01 08:56|| Front Page Top

#4 They'll be 'revolting' against their own elected government, leaving a power vacuum for the EU to fill with its bland-faced bureaucrats from Brussells, and no recourse at the ballot box or anywhere else.
Posted by Seafarious 2009-06-01 09:24||   2009-06-01 09:24|| Front Page Top

#5 I think the kind of revolution you can expect is a high turn out and high turn-over in the next called election. That is how democracies do it.
Posted by rjschwarz 2009-06-01 10:37||   2009-06-01 10:37|| Front Page Top

#6 The big question is the political party adjustment. Will the right wing UKIP, which has been to a great extent excluded from the government, make major inroads? They are very nationalistic and Euroskeptic.

With such a major turnover, everything could be up in the air. Gun control, capital punishment, fox hunting, immigration, welfare, EU integration, home rule, the size of government, rebuilding the military, etc., etc.
Posted by Anonymoose 2009-06-01 11:05||   2009-06-01 11:05|| Front Page Top

#7 How much does party matter? Legislation takes time, and I gather most things are run there (as here) by layers of unelected officials, who I assume have the same kind of civil service protections as our bureaucrats. (Anybody remember "Yes Minister?")
Posted by James">James  2009-06-01 13:42||]">[]  2009-06-01 13:42|| Front Page Top

#8 Last week Jerry Pournelle wrote this about the legitimacy of government.
The dread secret is that almost any form of government can work, and there is little a priori to show which is better. "Your fathers swore allegiance to my father, and you to me, and I am the son of the king" is no less absurd than "Fifty percent plus one of those who bothered to vote have chosen me to rule," and neither proposition has more apparent merit than "We are the best and the brightest, as were our parents; we are the natural rulers of this land, don't you agree?" Or "The Army has chosen me to be Emperor. Hail me, or dread the fury of the Legions."

Governments work so long as people will allow them to work. The primary -- elemental -- political act is that someone gives an order and it is obeyed. The primary necessity for government is that the loser of the selection process -- whether election by adult suffrage, election by manhood suffrage, election by an aristocratic elite, hereditary aristocracy, monarchy -- that the losers of the selection process stand down and submit. There is a certain degree of magic in that. The United States has been fortunate that for most of its history the losers of elections have submitted, and they did so back in the times when there were qualifications for being a voter as well as in more "progressive" times when place of birth and age are the only qualifications. When people begin to question the reason for obedience, a republic is in danger, because there will inevitably arise an issue people feel very strongly about.

He was writing about "allowing state and federal courts to amend constitutions without action of the legislature or people is that there seems to be no limit to what they can do; and once the notion is out that anything can be legal, the society may not be able to recover from the resulting loss of respect and awe for constitutions and the amending process. " But his summary of the source of government legitimacy is useful in other areas.
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2009-06-01 15:33||   2009-06-01 15:33|| Front Page Top

#9 He was writing about "allowing state and federal courts to amend constitutions without action of the legislature or people is that there seems to be no limit to what they can do; and once the notion is out that anything can be legal, the society may not be able to recover from the resulting loss of respect and awe for constitutions and the amending process. "

You mean like Kaliphornia? I said it before: If we could recall the judges it would be better than marching on the capitol with machetes and pitchforks.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2009-06-01 17:10||   2009-06-01 17:10|| Front Page Top

#10 Jerry lives in California, but he was also referring to the Federal level. A key part of the problem is legislators who don't write, read or understand the laws they pass, thus forcing poorly-thought out issues into the courts, and neglect to clarify laws that would then not need adjudication. One constitutional amendment I would like to see is some way to force supreme court justices out of office (short of death). Life-time tenure is a bad idea, especially considering advances in modern medicine.
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2009-06-01 17:34||   2009-06-01 17:34|| Front Page Top

#11 I find the British sense of political correctness revolting.
Posted by Kofi Flomotch5556 2009-06-01 18:01||   2009-06-01 18:01|| Front Page Top

#12 'Da street' here is saying these guys and gals are out, how much that splits the BNP and UKIP will be seen.
As deemed by a trough-swilling bunch of retards loot the reserves and issue Well, with the uncontrolled immigration, and a foreign war, the most immediate UK question is Europia, let's hopes you keep liking us, when we make a decision. The emeny within has been the Government, of all stripes.
Posted by Rhodesiafever 2009-06-01 22:35||   2009-06-01 22:35|| Front Page Top

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