Archived material Access restricted Article

Today's Front Page   View All of Sun 05/31/2009 View Sat 05/30/2009 View Fri 05/29/2009 View Thu 05/28/2009 View Wed 05/27/2009 View Tue 05/26/2009 View Mon 05/25/2009
2009-05-31 -Lurid Crime Tales-
Dr. Tiller experiences late-term killing.
Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.
Posted by Besoeker 2009-05-31 13:32|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [10796 views ]  Top

#1 a bad thing. Janet's DHS will ride this roughshod over every anti-abortion activist, gun owner, et al
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2009-05-31 14:15||   2009-05-31 14:15|| Front Page Top

#2 Domestic terrorism, pure and simple.
Posted by Penguin 2009-05-31 14:24||   2009-05-31 14:24|| Front Page Top

#3 This is the second time Tiller has been shot. He was wounded in both arms in 1993.
The shooter,one Shelley Shannon, served 11 years in prison for it. She is back in prison now for the arson of several abortion clinics in Oregon.
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2009-05-31 14:27||   2009-05-31 14:27|| Front Page Top

#4 He's not in Kansas anymore, Toto.

(He was murdered, pure and simple, but may his soul burn in hell for all eternity!)
Posted by Zorba 2009-05-31 14:31||   2009-05-31 14:31|| Front Page Top

#5 Guess this will end any talk of Kathleen Sebelius's failure to accurately report how generous Tiller was to her campaigns
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2009-05-31 14:39||   2009-05-31 14:39|| Front Page Top

#6 The Pro Life cause was set back a decade, perhaps more, by this murder.
Posted by rjschwarz 2009-05-31 15:11||   2009-05-31 15:11|| Front Page Top

#7 Gunning people down in the streets and burning clinics are flat terrorist acts. Lets see how DOJ and the FBI handle this.
Posted by 49 Pan 2009-05-31 15:12||   2009-05-31 15:12|| Front Page Top

#8 Maybe yes, rj, maybe no. It all depends on who his murderer is and why they did it. There is a possibility it had nothing to do with his chosen "profession". Let's not judge until the facts are in.
Posted by Cornsilk Blondie 2009-05-31 15:17||   2009-05-31 15:17|| Front Page Top

#9 They've made an arrest:

Eyewitness News has confirmed the suspect in the shooting of Dr. George Tiller is in custody in the Kansas City area. Wichita police say the man was arrested near Gardner, KS at around 2:00 Sunday afternoon.

Wichita Police are hosting a news conference on the shooting at 4:00 pm today. Look for live coverage here.

Stay with Eyewitness News for further updates.

We should know more shortly
Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2009-05-31 15:31||   2009-05-31 15:31|| Front Page Top

#10 Not a terrorist act. Just plain old cold blooded murder. Or perhaps an assassination. To be terrorism it has to be an act which is not directed at any specific person but at random innocents.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2009-05-31 15:44||   2009-05-31 15:44|| Front Page Top

#11 In another dark period in history we must remember that one Count von Staufenberg was executed for attempted murder. Something to ponder.
Posted by Besoeker 2009-05-31 15:56||   2009-05-31 15:56|| Front Page Top

#12 Unbridled zealots who think they are superheros meting out justice are scary.
Posted by GirlThursday 2009-05-31 16:38||   2009-05-31 16:38|| Front Page Top

#13 When von Staufenberg acted democracy had already been abolished in Germany. There were no legitimate avenues to change government policy through elections or the courts. That is what made violence not just acceptable, but brave and mandatory. Politically motivated violence in the US, whether by jihadists, anarchists, animal rights activists, Timothy McVeigh types, or anti-abortionists is terrorism.
Posted by Odysseus 2009-05-31 16:52||   2009-05-31 16:52|| Front Page Top

#14 I agree GT, and to think he was charging $5000. per session!
Posted by Besoeker 2009-05-31 16:52||   2009-05-31 16:52|| Front Page Top

#15 When von Staufenberg acted democracy had already been abolished in Germany. There were no legitimate avenues to change government policy through elections or the courts.

Quite correct Odysseus. Much, much different than current times.
Posted by Besoeker 2009-05-31 17:00||   2009-05-31 17:00|| Front Page Top

#16 What if a radical Muslim group had murdered him?
Posted by European Conservative 2009-05-31 17:40||   2009-05-31 17:40|| Front Page Top

#17 Weirdly, I have a couple connections to this story. And they make me want to punch somebody. Or multiple somebody's.

First, as a cub reporter, I helped the "Operation Rescue" demonstrations in the early '90s in front of Tiller's clinic. I would describe myself as moderately pro-life, but the tactics I saw employed there really turned my stomach.

I saw parents have their KIDS dive in front of MOVING CARS to stop them from going into the clinic. I talked to a young woman who had an abortion at the clinic when she discovered her second-trimester baby was going to be born without a heart. There was nothing to be done at the time. The baby was going to be born dead.

The harassment and the name-calling she went through during that time was nothing I would wish on anybody. I mean, it's tough enough to know that your baby is effectively dead, but to be called his or her killer?

I don't have a lot of sympathy for Tiller himself. I despise the line of work he's in, but behind every ZOMG! HITLER'S DEAD! VON STUFFINWHARGARBLE that's on display here, I think of that young, prospective mother, and think that the people that made her life hell thought of themselves as Christians. And it turns my stomach. Every abortion is a human tragedy, but it isn't always the one that you think.

I know Tiller's daughter through my sister, who are both in medicine in Kansas. From one dinner and my brief encounters, I would assume that she leans nominally pro-life. I think she was estranged, slightly, from her father and his chosen line of work. But defiant in a way, because she grew up in a house of death threats, intimations of classmates, and the pointing at the Scarlet Letter that came with growing up as George Tiller's daughter. She had grown some hard bark. Had to. She doesn't go by her family name. I also know that a smart, beautiful daughter who I respect and admire pointlessly lost her father today, and that makes me mad.

We can assume that the shooter is a pro-life zealot. I mean, he target Tiller in the lobby of a church. It wasn't a robbery. It was an assassination. And people wonder why the government's report fingered right-wing extremism here a few weeks ago. Exhibit A, as far as Obama's group is thinking.

And just for the fun of it, let's go with an analogy. Tiller's Shooter=suicide bomber. Those who celebrate the schadenfreude; the percentage of Muslims that celebrate those attacks. Is there a difference? What is the difference?

I consider myself a Christian (went to hear Franklin Graham speak in Tallinn last night), but I wonder on days like this when the Sermon on the Mount got skipped over. "Love thy neighbor as thyself." "Love the sinner, not the sin."

So today's scorecard is:
One almost 70-year-old man;
A family ripped apart;
Anyone right of Colin Powell, who can be now painted as potential nutjob;
The pro-life movement, which was gaining majority traction in the U.S. I think the fence-sitters will tend to lean another way now.

Well done, shooter. But I don't think you thought your cunning plan through. Fraker.

Posted by Mizzou Mafia 2009-05-31 18:32||   2009-05-31 18:32|| Front Page Top

#18 Mizzou--

Permission, please, to repost your comments here.

Posted by OregonGuy">OregonGuy  2009-05-31 18:48||]">[]  2009-05-31 18:48|| Front Page Top

#19 Where? I see no link.
Posted by Mizzou Mafia 2009-05-31 18:58||   2009-05-31 18:58|| Front Page Top

#20 Doesn't matter if it was a random mugging, we will be hearing about this for years and it will be portrayed as if it was politically motivated. That's the way the media works. Most people won't know the facts well enough to refute and eventually it will become common knowledge. This will set the pro-life cause back a decade.

Just as a hate crime has a chilling effect upon a particular race to terrify them this will have that effect on abortion doctors. I don't know if it's strictly terrorism but the effect may be the same and laws and things may change and not in the way the shooter had hoped.
Posted by rjschwarz 2009-05-31 20:01||   2009-05-31 20:01|| Front Page Top

#21 First let me say that I do not in any way sympathize with anti-abortion nutjobs (I don't believe that e.g. a 16-cell embryo is a human being, an individual).

The last few years have however made me take a cynical look at the issues.

The truth is:
Violence works, murder works, killing works, intimidation works, it gets results beyond the wildest expectations
of any fanatic.

Take the Theo van Gogh murder:
A European, a Westerner is brutally assassinated for exercising his civil rights as understood in the West, straight in Western Europe.
The result:
Four and a half years later the designated Secretary General of NATO is forced to beg an assembly of Third World potentates for forgiveness because some pesky Westerners still refuse to bow to Sharia. If he hadn't done so he could not have become NATO's Secretary General.

A few decades earlier NATO was officially committed to the defense of our freedoms, with nuclear weapons if necessary, (even in that odd indefensible island of West-Berlin.)

I look forward to Obama, the DHS, FBS etc making official statements affirming the peaceful nature of the anti-abortion movement, professing their personal respect for peaceful anti-abortion activists, and urging everyone to avoid speech and/or action that might offend and thereby alienate moderate anti-abortion activists.
Posted by Black Bart Gloter9210 2009-05-31 20:25||   2009-05-31 20:25|| Front Page Top

#22  (I don't believe that e.g. a 16-cell embryo is a human being, an individual).

Seed corn sprouts don't resemble roasting ears either, but the farmer is certainly convinced he's started something with the planting.
Posted by Besoeker 2009-05-31 21:04||   2009-05-31 21:04|| Front Page Top

#23 Don't bother, Besoeker. The operative word is believe.
Posted by SR-71">SR-71  2009-05-31 21:42||   2009-05-31 21:42|| Front Page Top

#24 Ya know, really I just wish women who were sexually active and not wishing to be moms would double, triple, nay, quadruple (its possible) the Birth control to avoid undesired pregnancy in the first place. Hoochie mamas create more problems for society than their unsluttly counterparts. But ya know, I guess birth control offends some peoples private parts. Geez Louise. Okay, Im done preaching now.
Posted by GirlThursday 2009-05-31 22:00||   2009-05-31 22:00|| Front Page Top

#25 Uh.

I'm not a busybody. I type out some stuff, hopefully on a daily basis. "linking" is something I prolly should do, but Imma thinking I don't know what you're looking for. Sorry. I'm dumb.

I thought your response was eloquent. I wanted to use a lot of it on my own posting spot. If you click on my name in my previous post, I think you'll be taken to a place where I post. That's the "where" I think you're talking about.

I think you're response is important. Living in a small, rural area, there are people who look to me to provide them with context. I thought you had provided a great deal of that. Context.

That's all. A link? I was going to link here. To Rantburg.
Posted by OregonGuy">OregonGuy  2009-05-31 22:46||]">[]  2009-05-31 22:46|| Front Page Top

#26 Actually, Mizzou Mafia can claim no copyright since this isn't his platform. It is however a matter of courtesy to ask before reprinting his comments.

I have republished comments in the past here in my own blog linking back to the original comment, not because of any legal obligation ( there isn't any ) but out of courtesy, and also out of courtesy I have asked for permission.
Posted by badanov 2009-05-31 22:56||]">[]  2009-05-31 22:56|| Front Page Top

#27 Dear Bad--

Yeah, I'm okay with that. But I'm not familiar with Mizzou to the point where I felt I could "steal" cleanly, without possible karma prollems. We're posting to an old, I'm prolly going to steal his post anyway. I couldn't come up with the kinda feeling that made sense. His post makes sense.

If you're out there Mizzou, thanks. My use will be guided by "Fair Use." With a link here.
Posted by OregonGuy">OregonGuy  2009-05-31 23:12||]">[]  2009-05-31 23:12|| Front Page Top

#28 It's important to make this point here:

This isn't about what we think about abortion. The issue is a thorny one for sure, but it's not the point here.

The point is whether we uphold the rule of law in a democratic country with a working legal system.

If this abortion doctor broke the law let law enforcement handle it.

If he didn't then that's that. Nobody can take the law into its own hand. That's called lynching.

Everyone who agrees with this murder basically says: The United States is a lawless country.

Sometimes you won't agree with the decision of courts. That doesn't mean that you can shoot a guy acquitted at court because you believe he's guilty.

Germany in 1944 was a barbaric dictatorship. Therefore Stauffenberg was justified.

If you compare Stauffenberg to this murderer you compare the United States with Nazi Germany.

I don't think you want to do that.
Posted by European Conservative 2009-05-31 23:12||   2009-05-31 23:12|| Front Page Top

#29 This is wrong.

We on the pro-life side were well into bringing him up on charges of disobeying the laws regarding late-term abortions, and were on track to get his medical license revoked, followed by civil suits.

Death like this is wrong, be it at the hands of an abortionist or the hands of a fanatic.

Posted by OldSpook 2009-05-31 23:15||   2009-05-31 23:15|| Front Page Top

#30 #18 Mizzou--

Permission, please, to repost your comments here.

Oregon Guy, I think Mizzou Mafia wanted to know where you were posting his comment, because the "here" didn't point to anything, no doubt an oversight. I'd love to know, too -- I have to admit to checking out Rantburgers blogs/websites when I have time... a small indulgence.
Posted by trailing wife 2009-05-31 23:16||   2009-05-31 23:16|| Front Page Top

#31 That being said, he is most assuredly suffering now under the revelation of the truth of the evil of his entire life. Think on that: how would it be to be FORCED to see yourself, with no defense nor pretenses -- and to realize what an utter monster you are, and how you see God, who is all good, and how you have separated yourself from him for all eternity. Most assuredly that man, having met his maker, is screaming.

Same goes for the one that killed him.

Gotta say from a conspiracy angle, this is convenient: it paints pro-life as nasty fanatics right when we have become the majority viewpoint and are making great headway in the moral argument. This will be used by the left to tar all of us. Also, it silences a very bad loose end for Sebelious and Obama, in that the pro-life movement (specifically Priests for Life, and its Catholic supporters) was making great headway on civil, criminal and medical-ethics charges against him.

In sum, its awfully convenient for certain people that this man died the way he did, and suspicious that the person apparently got away scot free. Hopefully I am wrong on this.
Posted by OldSpook 2009-05-31 23:21||   2009-05-31 23:21|| Front Page Top

#32 Interesting to know, OldSpook. European Conservative, you summed up the essence of reactions to this murder most eloquently. Thank you.
Posted by trailing wife 2009-05-31 23:35||   2009-05-31 23:35|| Front Page Top

#33 Nobody has a right to initiate force and end an innocent human life. Its simply wrong. I'm sure you agree on that. So lets look at what science says:

I don't believe that e.g. a 16-cell embryo is a human being

Well, lets see...

Is it alive, that is does it fit the definition of "life"? Per basic biology, Yes. It is alive.

Is it an individual? Cellular biology shows us a unique individual. A life

Is it human? DNA says it certainly is. A human life.

So it *is* a human life, per science.

To destroy that "embryo", means destroying a human life - taking an innocent human life. Period. No denying that. No need for the Bible or faith, just science.

You want to argue about "personhood"? Slippery slope my friend. Eugenics is down that road, as is euthanasia... pretty soon you end up drawing lines arbitrarily, and going on purely subject issues - and then descend into "quality of life" and ultimately opinion.

So you are left with the only *sure* and *moral* line that can be drawn is the one that begins at conception and ends at natural death.

Posted by OldSpook 2009-05-31 23:38||   2009-05-31 23:38|| Front Page Top

#34 Also under that same moral stance, the murder of the doctor was unjustified - we have a justice system for that.

And when my faith enters the picture, I have faith that ultimately we all answer to God, so *true* justice, in the end, will be done, no matter how badly human justice fails us.
Posted by OldSpook 2009-05-31 23:41||   2009-05-31 23:41|| Front Page Top

#35 If I may kindly suggest that we continue this discussion after the "roll over"?
Posted by European Conservative 2009-05-31 23:48||   2009-05-31 23:48|| Front Page Top

23:59 European Conservative
23:53 JosephMendiola
23:49 trailing wife
23:48 European Conservative
23:44 OldSpook
23:43 JosephMendiola
23:41 OldSpook
23:38 OldSpook
23:35 trailing wife
23:33 Barbara Skolaut
23:30 Barbara Skolaut
23:21 OldSpook
23:19 JosephMendiola
23:16 European Conservative
23:16 trailing wife
23:15 OldSpook
23:12 European Conservative
23:12 OregonGuy
22:58 trailing wife
22:56 badanov
22:50 Pappy
22:46 OregonGuy
22:08 GirlThursday
22:01 Gentleman Jim

Search WWW Search