Article

2009-05-31 China-Japan-Koreas

Spiegel: 'China Has Lost Face' over North Korea

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Posted by 3dc 2009-05-31 03:16|| || Front Page|| [7 views ] Top

#1 Europe has just enough traditional recognition in China to be able to speak about "face". This means there will be considerable, discreet seething about this remark.

Posted by Anonymoose 2009-05-31 11:27|| 2009-05-31 11:27|| Front Page Top

#2 The Chinese armed the N.Koreans quite methodically and deliberately. There is no loss of face here, except perhaps by those targeted by the Chinese proxy state.

Posted by john frum 2009-05-31 13:11|| 2009-05-31 13:11|| Front Page Top

#3 They either (a) are obviously provoking the west or (b) have no control over North Korea. In either case it 'appears' as if they have no control over North Korea, thus loss of face to the world.

The results will be war, or a militarized Japan, neither of which China wants, so I suspect they have lost control over North Korea.

Posted by rjschwarz 2009-05-31 15:07|| 2009-05-31 15:07|| Front Page Top

#4 All of this assumes that North Korea has been under the "control" of China. In order to have "lost" something, one must have had it to begin with. So when did China gain "control" of North Korea? Was it sometime before the first nuclear test? Was the first test done under Chinese "control"?

China has never had "control" over North Korea and so has lost nothing. But what appears to be the case is China's loss of influence. North Korea now seems to be a "loose cannon" on the world stage that is a danger to everyone.

The article states that a unified Korea allies with America is not a favorable outcome for China. Well, there is a third alternative that is not mentioned. China could play a supportive role in that reunification and the result would be a Korea that is allied with both China and the US. And since China is the local partner, it would be natural for that alliance over time to favor China in an economic sense.

So it seems that the natural course would be for a joint Chinese/American response of regime change and re-unification of the Korean peninsula. Korea could then become a powerful economic asset to China, rather than the economic and social burden that it is today.

It just depends now on how long it takes the Chinese to realize this and have a Korean neighbor that is eternally grateful to China for help, or a Korea that will always see China as a potential enemy.

Posted by crosspatch 2009-05-31 19:44|| 2009-05-31 19:44|| Front Page Top

#5 Actually if the world believes North Korea is subservient to China it doesn't matter if they actually are or not, China loses face when North Korea acts up. The world isn't fair.

Posted by rjschwarz 2009-05-31 19:56|| 2009-05-31 19:56|| Front Page Top

#6 The notion that just because a lot of people believe something to be true makes it true is the kind of mush headed "thinking" that we see so much these days. It makes about as much sense as public opinion polls of "global warming" or the autism link to MMR vaccinations. Public opinion doesn't reflect reality and what "people believe" makes little sense when 50% of the population, by definition, is below the median intelligence level. There are a lot of morons out there, I am not prepared to surrender my future to them.

Reality isn't run by marketing campaign and those who believe it is are a big part of the problem, not a part of the solution.

Posted by crosspatch 2009-05-31 20:20|| 2009-05-31 20:20|| Front Page Top

#7 Compare wid WORLD MILITARY FORUM > IIUC JAPANESE MEDIAS: IN JAPAN AND SINGAPORE, THE "NORTH KOREAN NUCLEAR/MISSLE CRISIS" HAS NOW BECOME THE "CHINA THREAT THEORY". Any successful Missle, Underground Nuclear Tests by NOKOR = KIMMIE will ultimately be CHINA'S FAILURE AT ATTEMPTS TO PROMOTE REGIONAL DENUCL + CHINA'S THREAT to its own Geopol Security.

* SAME >CHINA-NORTH KOREAN BORDER: UNPECTED DEPLOYMENT OF DF-21 STARTEGIC MISSLES BY PLA SECOND ARTILLERY CORPS TARGETS OKINAWA AND JAPAN [ US, Japanese MilBases]. CHINA's STRATEGIC MISSLE INVENTORY IS BELIEVED AT THIS TIME TO INCLUDE 55 LR MIRVed BALLISTIC MISSLES OF 1700-5000 SQM RANGE [ including DF21's], + 55 MIRV MISSLES OF MORE POWERFUL 7000-13000 SQM RANGE.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2009-05-31 21:20|| 2009-05-31 21:20|| Front Page Top

#8 OOOPSIES, AM Coffee hasn't entered the bloodstream yet:

* SAME > JAPANESE MEDIAS: IIUC JAPAN, USA EXPRESS MUTUAL SUPPORT IFF THE OTHER CHOSE TO UNILATER PREEMPTIVELY ATTACK NORTH KOREA'S NUCLEAR FACILITIES.

ALso, CONFUSING GOOGLE CHINGLISH TRANSLATION > IMO ARTIC indics that (1)SOKOR GOVT IS EITHER WARNING IT MAY DEV ITS OWN INDEPENDENT NUCLEAR ARSENAL TO COUNTER NORTH KOREA, as due to the SERIOUS CONTEMPORARY NUCLEAR SITUATION IN NORTH KOREA WROUGHT BY "CHINA'S ARMY + PEOPLE";

OR

(2) NORTH KOREA TRUE AIM IS TO COVERTLY MIL THREATEN ITS BOSS-STATE CHINA IN ORDER TO INTIMIDATE/BULLY CHINA INTO GIVING IT MORE ECON GOODY GOODIES = NATIONAL ECON ASSISTANCE [NEC, read FOOD].

** LASTLY, SAME > CHINA MUST FIND FAST-ATTACK INDIA'S "STRATEGIC CORRIDOR" . 1939 FALL OF BELGIUM, andor 1940 FALL OF FRANCE = Bypass of INDIA's "MAGINOT LINE", vee SIKKIM, BHUTAN. WW2 GERMAN BLITFRIEG = PLA 21st CENTURY STRATEGIC ATTACK AGZ INDIA. INDIA's ILLEGAL ANNEXATION AND MIL OCCUPATION OF CHIN ANCIENT SIKKIM [Tibetan]TERRITORY.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2009-05-31 21:38|| 2009-05-31 21:38|| Front Page Top

#9 "'China Has Lost Face' over North Korea"

Call me when they lose their asses over the NorKs.

Somebody sure needs to....

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2009-05-31 23:33|| 2009-05-31 23:33|| Front Page Top

#10 "Face" is about what the world believes, not the actual truth. Whether China never had control over North Korea or whether North Korea has now slipped the leash, or even if things are going exactly as China intended, nonetheless China is engaged in the Six Party talks because they are supposed to have influence in Pyong Yang. This shows they do not, so why bother to include them in the talks? Face has been lost.

Posted by trailing wife 2009-05-31 23:49|| 2009-05-31 23:49|| Front Page Top

#11 It's not in China's interest that NK actually has WORKING nukes and missiles. Beijing would be in their range, too. And sooner or later this means Japan will have nukes.

It is (maybe) in China's interest to use NK to demonstrate how powerless the West is. And since the Chinese are not dumb I'm still not convinced whether NK as successfully orchestrated a nuclear test or whether this just was a big boom with some radioactive material strewn around.

Posted by European Conservative 2009-05-31 23:59|| 2009-05-31 23:59|| Front Page Top

23:59 European Conservative
23:53 JosephMendiola
23:49 trailing wife
23:48 European Conservative
23:44 OldSpook
23:43 JosephMendiola
23:41 OldSpook
23:38 OldSpook
23:35 trailing wife
23:33 Barbara Skolaut
23:30 Barbara Skolaut
23:21 OldSpook
23:19 JosephMendiola
23:16 European Conservative
23:16 trailing wife
23:15 OldSpook
23:12 European Conservative
23:12 OregonGuy
22:58 trailing wife
22:56 badanov
22:50 Pappy
22:46 OregonGuy
22:08 GirlThursday
22:01 Gentleman Jim