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2009-01-04 Israel-Palestine-Jordan

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Posted by mhw 2009-01-04 06:31|| || Front Page|| [11143 views ] Top
File under: Hamas

#1 Half an hour ago Fox news reported that Israeli troops had cut the Gaza Strip into three parts to make movement north or south impossible.

Posted by Keystone 2009-01-04 10:08|| 2009-01-04 10:08|| Front Page Top

#2 I thought they'd do that. We did it in Falluja when we got serious.

Posted by Fred 2009-01-04 10:09|| 2009-01-04 10:09|| Front Page Top

#3 But, but... they can't be serious? I mean itn an OUTRAGER!

Posted by .5MT 2009-01-04 10:12|| www.cybernations.net]">[www.cybernations.net] 2009-01-04 10:12|| Front Page Top

#4 time to apply some IDF bleach to each part in sequence. Nowhere to run, few places to hide. Look for tall hairier-than-usual-moustachio'd burqa-wearers

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2009-01-04 10:37|| 2009-01-04 10:37|| Front Page Top

#5
2:30 PM IDF ups their psychological warfare on Gaza -- takes over Gaza TV broadcasts and keeps repeating over and over: "Gaza, Your Time is Running Out" (Walla News, Hebrew)

Posted by 3dc 2009-01-04 10:46|| 2009-01-04 10:46|| Front Page Top

#6
5:28 PM Hamas top terrorists hiding out in basement of Gaza's Shifa hospital. (Muqata reported last week of reports that the largest stockpile in Gaza of Katyusha and Grad missiles was also in the same basement) [Channel 1 Israel TV]

Posted by 3dc 2009-01-04 10:58|| 2009-01-04 10:58|| Front Page Top

#7 #6

Fire in the hole.

Posted by Woozle Elmeter 2700 2009-01-04 11:05|| 2009-01-04 11:05|| Front Page Top

#8 Shame they didn't use the Litani and do the same thing in Lebanon a while back.

But this is a good move, sectioning and clearing.

Posted by OldSpook 2009-01-04 11:18|| 2009-01-04 11:18|| Front Page Top

#9 largest stockpile in Gaza

Light off that arsenal all at once at it MIGHT qualify as a massive bomb. And it would blow up a hospital, a clear Israeli war crime (sad, but that IS how it would be portrayed.)

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2009-01-04 11:20|| 2009-01-04 11:20|| Front Page Top

#10 Light off that arsenal all at once at it MIGHT qualify as a massive bomb.

Say it Glenmore! It past Noon!

Posted by .5MT 2009-01-04 11:43|| www.cybernations.net]">[www.cybernations.net] 2009-01-04 11:43|| Front Page Top

#11 So, if more medicine had been allowed in, then there wouldn't have been room for it?

Posted by Darrell 2009-01-04 13:04|| 2009-01-04 13:04|| Front Page Top

#12 All Gaza is divided into three parts...

Posted by Spot">Spot 2009-01-04 13:41|| 2009-01-04 13:41|| Front Page Top

#13 Darrell, your thought processes are as warped as mine.

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2009-01-04 14:12|| 2009-01-04 14:12|| Front Page Top

#14 Israel needs to get a propaganda campaign going to show these arms and ammo dumps in civilian places like hospitals. That is just as an important part of the campaign as kinetic warfare. Discredit Hamas on the airwaves. Sure the libs will go lalalalala. But keep chipping away at it.

And you are right, OS about the Litani in Lebanon. IIRC, the plan was to have amphibious landings at the mouth of the Litani River and encircle south Lebanon from the west and east, and clean out the pocket. But Olmert blew it and did not allow it. Not destroying Hizb'Allah was a huge mistake on Olmert's part. Not being crushed was a victory for Hizb'Allah.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2009-01-04 14:15|| 2009-01-04 14:15|| Front Page Top

#15

Posted by Thilet Smith6893 2009-01-04 14:24|| 2009-01-04 14:24|| Front Page Top

#16 Where is that trooper when we need him?

Posted by Darrell 2009-01-04 14:26|| 2009-01-04 14:26|| Front Page Top

#17 Not a peep out of the PA?

Posted by bigjim-ky 2009-01-04 14:27|| 2009-01-04 14:27|| Front Page Top

#18 Thilet what planet are you from?

Posted by bigjim-ky 2009-01-04 14:29|| 2009-01-04 14:29|| Front Page Top

#19 Franks blog reported that IDF radio never says or plays anything religious but this morning they recited Psalm 18 (the Psalm of Victory)

Posted by 3dc 2009-01-04 14:36|| 2009-01-04 14:36|| Front Page Top

#20

Posted by Thilet Smith6893 2009-01-04 14:40|| 2009-01-04 14:40|| Front Page Top

#21 This particular troll comes to us from Pakistan.

Or did.

Posted by lotp 2009-01-04 14:49|| 2009-01-04 14:49|| Front Page Top

#22 Must be a muslim. Nobody worships death like a muslim.

Posted by CrazyFool 2009-01-04 14:50|| 2009-01-04 14:50|| Front Page Top

#23 TS6893, how would you like to see nukes over Makah, Riyadh, Tehran, Damascus, ...?

Posted by Rambler in Virginia">Rambler in Virginia 2009-01-04 14:50|| 2009-01-04 14:50|| Front Page Top

#24 "Other than my duty to go to a far away land to bang my head for a space rock and throw stones at a golum, I could care less because they think themselves more pure than I. Also, unlike a dog, I have not and refuse to learn to not play with porcupines. Hey, is that a woman buying suggestive produce without 2 male family escorts? Kill her! Is that a John Lennon song I hear - I blow your shop up!"

Posted by swksvolFF 2009-01-04 15:07|| 2009-01-04 15:07|| Front Page Top

#25 I am not pure. I never have been and never will bve. No human is now or will ever be Pure. We are Mortal beings living in an Imperfect world. Living according to the "Law", whether Isalmic, Jewish, or Chirstian, won't make us Pure. The only "Out" we have is to confess before God our "Impurity" and ask God's forgiveness. What we have in our core being is what matters.

Posted by Deacon Blues 2009-01-04 15:45|| 2009-01-04 15:45|| Front Page Top

#26 Its still way too early too judge, but it LOOKS like the diff between this and Op Shalom LeGalil is far superior intelligence. With good intel you can maximize the payoff from air strikes relative to collateral damage, which they seem to have done so far. Hopefully that will also leverage the ground ops - use ground forces to take out High Value individuals and key rocket sites, and key tunnel/bunker positions WITHOUT having to go door to door through all of Gaza city or the refugee camps.

My impression is that such intell was simply not available during the Lebanon campaign, which was not nearly as well prepared.

I wonder, how much intell the IDF is getting from Fatah people on the ground.

Posted by liberalhawk 2009-01-04 16:04|| 2009-01-04 16:04|| Front Page Top

#27 17 see above.

Abbas HAS to condemn the attacks, to appeal to fence sitters in the West Bank, even though most reports are that he wants to see as much damage to Hamas as possible. IF Hamas is completely destroyed, (big if) its possible he will go back into Gaza with Egyptian support. My guess is that Fatah is providing intell at least, to the IDF.

Posted by liberalhawk 2009-01-04 16:07|| 2009-01-04 16:07|| Front Page Top

#28 Hamas is shooting Fatah members for a reason

Posted by European Conservative 2009-01-04 16:07|| 2009-01-04 16:07|| Front Page Top

#29 They were putting Fatah guys under "house arrest", but they seem to have figured out that they don't have the manpower for that. So Fatah gets it in the neck.

Posted by mojo">mojo 2009-01-04 17:09|| 2009-01-04 17:09|| Front Page Top

#30 they're Paleos, Mojo...so they shoot a little lower. Think ventilated footwear

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2009-01-04 17:12|| 2009-01-04 17:12|| Front Page Top

#31 Hamas is shooting Fatah members for a reason

AFAIK Hamas has been shooting Fatah members (and vice versa) for a very very long while, at a scale of violence that would be suprising to us if generally known.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2009-01-04 17:31|| 2009-01-04 17:31|| Front Page Top

#32 Hamas managed to fire off over 50 rockets today. No doubt Hamas was hoping for 200+ on the day after a ground invasion so that's OK as far as it goes. If the number of Hamas rockets starts to go down each day or if the number of rockets is all mortars and no Grads, that will be a very good sign.

Posted by mhw 2009-01-04 18:02|| 2009-01-04 18:02|| Front Page Top

#33 So, has Olmert redeemed himself, yet? Are we seeing the real Olmert now and Lebanon was just a deviation? Or is he just doing what he has to to win the election in Feb. So far, this looks like a war being run by Israeli generals, very competently. Lebanon was run by politicans to disappointing results.

Posted by Richard of Oregon 2009-01-04 18:20|| 2009-01-04 18:20|| Front Page Top

#34 he's not running in Febuary elections. His party is, though

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2009-01-04 18:38|| 2009-01-04 18:38|| Front Page Top

#35 I prefer the beginning of Psalm 144

Blessed be the LORD, my) rock,
who trains my hands for war,
and my fingers for battle;

He is my steadfast love and my fortress,
my stronghold and my deliverer,
my shield and he in whom I take refuge,
who subdues peoples under me.

Posted by OldSpook 2009-01-04 19:33|| 2009-01-04 19:33|| Front Page Top

#36 (FYI, that was one used before we crossed the berm way back when)

Posted by OldSpook 2009-01-04 19:34|| 2009-01-04 19:34|| Front Page Top

#37 Don't think it's Olmert, but Tzipi who's running the show and I think she'll make a terrific PM

Posted by European Conservative 2009-01-04 19:41|| 2009-01-04 19:41|| Front Page Top

#38 TGA?

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2009-01-04 20:08|| 2009-01-04 20:08|| Front Page Top

#39 I was told about him when I first posted here...

No, sorry, I'm not. Just German. His nick would fit, though.

I'm much younger and probably a lot nastier than him.

Firmly on the side of Western sanity (yes it exists)

Posted by European Conservative 2009-01-04 20:50|| 2009-01-04 20:50|| Front Page Top

#40 I miss him. And .com.

He was like Der Alte. .com wasn't.

We must all see our time pass but for some it is too soon.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2009-01-04 20:58|| 2009-01-04 20:58|| Front Page Top

#41 I miss TGA too, NS. (No offense intended to you, EC - we're grateful you're here to give us the continental perspective, along with our French posters.)

I know why he said he had to sign off from here, but given his age, I wish he would post just once more to let us know he's OK.

Same for .com, except the age part.

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2009-01-04 21:18|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/] 2009-01-04 21:18|| Front Page Top

#42 At a certain unspoken level, we understand that the Huntington thesis is right and the Rice view is wishful thinking. After all, when President Sarkozy and other European critics bemoan Israels disproportionate response, what really are they saying? That they expect better from the despised Jews than from Hamas. That they regard Israel as a western society bound by civilized norms, whereas any old barbarism issuing forth from Gaza is to be excused on grounds of desperation. Hence, this slightly surreal headline from The New York Times: Israel Rejects Cease-Fire, But Offers Gaza Aid. For whatever thats worth. Wafa Samir Ibrahim al-Biss, a young Palestinian woman who received considerate and exemplary treatment at an Israeli hospital in Beersheva, returned to that same hospital packed with explosives in order to blow herself up and kill the doctors and nurses who restored her to health. Well, what do you expect? Its desperation born of poverty and occupation.

If it was, it would be easy to fix. But what if its not? What if its about something more primal than land borders and economic aid?

A couple of days after Hamas voted to restore crucifixion to the Holy Land, their patron in Teheran (and their primary source of aid) put in an appearance on British TV. As multicultural balance to Her Majesty The Queens traditional Christmas message, the TV network Channel 4 invited President Ahmadinejad to give an alternative Yuletide address on the grounds that it was a valuable public service to let viewers hear him speak for himself, which people in the west dont often get the chance to see. In fact, as Caroline Glick pointed out in The Jerusalem Post, the great man speaks for himself all the time when hes at the UN, calling on all countries to submit to Islam; when hes presiding over his international conference of Holocaust deniers; when hes calling for Israel to be wiped off the map or (in his more moderate moments) relocated to a couple of provinces of Germany and Austria. Caroline Glick forbore to mention that, according to President Ahmadinejads chief adviser Hassan Abbassi, his geopolitical strategy is based on the premise that Britain is the mother of all evils the evils being America, Australia, Israel, the Gulf states, Canada, and New Zealand, all of which are the malign progeny of the British Empire. We have established a department that will take care of England, said Mr. Abbassi in 2005. Englands demise is on our agenda.

So when Channel 4 says that we dont get the chance to see these fellows speak for themselves, it would be more accurate to say that they speak for themselves incessantly but the louder they speak the more we put our hands over our ears and go Nya nya, cant hear you. We do this in part because, if youre as invested as most western elites are in the idea that all anyone wants is to go to university, get a steady job and settle down in a nice house in the suburbs, a statement such as Englands demise is on our agenda becomes almost literally untranslatable. When President Ahmadinejad threatens to wipe Israel off the face of the map, we deplore him as a genocidal fantasist. But maybe hes a genocidal realist look at the threads linking North Korea to Iran and to Irans clients in Syria, Lebanon, and Gaza and were the fantasists.

The civilizational clashes of Professor Huntingtons book are not inevitable. Culture is not immutable. But changing culture is tough and thankless and something the west no longer has the stomach for. Unfortunately, the Saudis do, and so do the Iranians. And not just in Gaza but elsewhere the trend is away from moderation and toward something fiercer and ever more implacable.

To be fair to President Ahmadinejads hosts at Channel 4, the department that will take care of England probably doesnt get the lions share of the funding in Teheran. On the other hand, when Hashemi Rafsanjani describes the Zionist Entity as the most hideous occurrence in history which the Muslim world will vomit out from its midst with a single atomic bomb, that sounds rather more specific, if not teetering alarmingly on the disproportionate. Unlike its international critics in North America and Europe, Israel has no margin for error.

© 2008 Mark Steyn

Posted by Chetle Untervehr6476 2009-01-04 21:39|| 2009-01-04 21:39|| Front Page Top

#43 It's not a clash of civilizations but of ideologies. If Iran could get rid of the mullahs you'd see this country back on the side of civilization very soon.

Arabs once had a civilization that rivaled and maybe even surpassed European civilization between the 8th and the 11th century.

Think Cordoba under the rule of Caliph Abd ar Rahman III.

Then came fanatic tribesmen from Morocco who destroyed all that. But even they took on refined manners after a century.

The lethal combination is tribal barbary mixed with religious fanatism... this makes Pakistan a hopeless case for now.

The Palestinian case is not hopeless if they can get rid of fanatism and foreign meddling (Iran, Saudi etc).

The Arab World isn't that united against Israel anymore. When their oil runs out Israel will still be there, with all its smart, educated, hard working people.

The next 20 years will be hard and dangerous for Israel. Then we'll see.

Posted by European Conservative 2009-01-04 21:58|| 2009-01-04 21:58|| Front Page Top

#44

Posted by nuke iszrahell 2009-01-04 22:30|| 2009-01-04 22:30|| Front Page Top

#45 Let me guess: Pakistan?

Posted by European Conservative 2009-01-04 22:32|| 2009-01-04 22:32|| Front Page Top

#46 I'm almost inclined to agree with EC. In the medium term, I think he's right. My concern being the long term. (century or more) Israel can't expect to be the regions major economy for infinity. At some point its economic and military advantage could very well not exist and at that point, its all in how well the region has moderated.

My view basically boils down to this: If the WoT is a success, then Israel will be able to exist peacefully alongside its neighbors even if someday it isn't the regions Heavy. If it can't, the west didn't win the WoT

Posted by Mike N. 2009-01-04 22:40|| 2009-01-04 22:40|| Front Page Top

#47 "nucked"?

Is that a combination of the words "nip" and "tucked"?

Israel's gonna have plastic surgery? Whatever for? Most of their people are good-looking already.

Maybe it's Gaza that needs to be "nucked"? (They've got some pretty ugly people there.)

Of course, not even the best plastic surgeons can fix the ugliness of the Gazans.

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2009-01-04 22:43|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/] 2009-01-04 22:43|| Front Page Top

#48 Yet another in a long line of examples of why Iran can't have the bomb.

Posted by Mike N. 2009-01-04 22:44|| 2009-01-04 22:44|| Front Page Top

#49 Nice analyses and news at the Jerusalem Post. They agree with European Conservative's analysis. Not about Pakistan, though. ;-)

The amusing thing is, Pakistan's opinion on the Gaza war is about as important and the indignation of trailing daughter #2's Hebrew school class with regard to the situation in Darfur. Which is to say, worth absolutely nothing. I'm so sorry to be the one to inform you of that, nuke iszrahell.

Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife 2009-01-04 22:48|| 2009-01-04 22:48|| Front Page Top

#50 When Alexander the Great conquered Gaza he had all male inhabitants killed and all females led away into slavery.

But then again he was a Goy, wasn't he?

Posted by European Conservative 2009-01-04 22:50|| 2009-01-04 22:50|| Front Page Top

#51 tw, can you fix that link?

Posted by European Conservative 2009-01-04 22:52|| 2009-01-04 22:52|| Front Page Top

#52 Barbara

Of course we need to prove your assertion

Posted by European Conservative 2009-01-04 22:55|| 2009-01-04 22:55|| Front Page Top

#53 I'm not sure what I did wrong, European Conservative, but copy and past the following, and it should take you to the front page:

www.jpost.com

If that doesn't work, I promise to copy each article and email to an address of your choice. ;-)

Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife 2009-01-04 23:02|| 2009-01-04 23:02|| Front Page Top

#54 oh ok, I just thought you were referring to a special article in that filthy Zionist Propaganda Tool of the Evil Juice

Posted by European Conservative 2009-01-04 23:04|| 2009-01-04 23:04|| Front Page Top

#55 The article that expands on your point is here

or, if that doesn't work, copy the link below. Sorry about breaking page formatting, but I've messed up enough today.

www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230733173571&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull.

Posted by trailing wife">trailing wife 2009-01-04 23:12|| 2009-01-04 23:12|| Front Page Top

#56 He makes a few good points although I think he confuses Colombia with Venezuela (lefty Chavez is the one who hates Israel).

It boils down to this. Ask anyone in any street in the world, Muslim or not (and without any interference of other persons, minders and in absolute anonymity and safety) this question:

Where would you prefer to live:

a) in a democratic (albeit somewhat chaotic) country that doesn't infringe on your religious life, lets you party in nightclubs on the beach with gorgeous bikini babes, where you can freely say what you want, drink what you prefer, wear what you fancy, work what you like and travel the way you want to?

OR

b) in a country ruled by religious extremists, with invisible women clad in black sackcloth, where you get shot or tortured for saying your opinion or refusing to have your kid strapped to suicide belts, where your life will be regulated down to the smallest details?

And THEN ask

Why would you not support the country of your preference?

Posted by European Conservative 2009-01-04 23:28|| 2009-01-04 23:28|| Front Page Top

#57 #52 EC - Word.

Ugly goes to the bone - particularly in Gaza.

BTW, showing that picture of ~~the mummy~~ Helen Thomas without warning ~~should be~~ is considered a war crime. ;-p

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2009-01-04 23:50|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/] 2009-01-04 23:50|| Front Page Top

#58 Oops sorry I didn't scroll that much down.
She'd qualify for a compulsory burka

Posted by European Conservative 2009-01-04 23:56|| 2009-01-04 23:56|| Front Page Top