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2008-06-07 Europe

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Posted by Anonymoose 2008-06-07 00:01|| || Front Page|| [11127 views ] Top

#1 There is a joke here somewhere about France and their fighting force...

Seriously, this is what all of western Europe is facing at the moment. Full fledged welfare means less for other and necessary things, like an army to defend yourself with. The west is dying and it only remains to see if it will go with a bang, or a whimper. Please keep America from going this route. It only leads to death of your culture and country.

He will also use the occasion to push for greater military integration in Europe

There is a winning formula.... NOT!

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2008-06-06 19:24|| 2008-06-06 19:24|| Front Page Top

#2 I blame Bush! If it wasn't for his failed policies, Europe would not have to agonize through the last 63 years of enforced peace and allow their ~~fighting~~ armed forces to disintegrate like this. ~~MIND~~ Case closed!!

Posted by George Slolusing8880 2008-06-06 19:40|| 2008-06-06 19:40|| Front Page Top

#3 142 out of 346 are operational and even these regularly break down.

Less than half of its Puma helicopters, 37 per cent of its Lynx choppers and 33 per cent of its Super Frelon models built 40 years ago are in a fit state to fly, according to documents seen by Le Parisien newspaper.

Two thirds of France's Mirage F1 reconnaissance jets are unusable at present.

41% of tanks, an average of 40% of military helicopters, and 33% of the fighter aircraft are operational? That's an average of 35% of France's military force.

If that were to happen to the US heads would roll.

I know tanks, helo's, and jets take a lot of maintenance, but this sounds ridiculous.

Posted by FOTSGreg">FOTSGreg 2008-06-06 20:44|| 2008-06-06 20:44|| Front Page Top

#4 How can they tell?

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-06-06 20:47|| 2008-06-06 20:47|| Front Page Top

#5
If that were to happen to the US heads would roll.

Anglo-Saxon.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-06-06 20:48|| 2008-06-06 20:48|| Front Page Top

#6 Wonder how the rest of the major continental Euro powers would measure up ...

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2008-06-06 21:42|| 2008-06-06 21:42|| Front Page Top

#7 bet the Czechs, Hungarians, and Poles could take them. Nothing focuses attention like the boot on your neck. (apologies to the Romanians, et al - my attention span is limited.....)

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-06-06 21:46|| 2008-06-06 21:46|| Front Page Top

#8 A headline for all time.

Posted by DMFD 2008-06-06 23:39|| 2008-06-06 23:39|| Front Page Top

#9 FREEREPUBLIC > FRANCE TRYING TO CREATE A EURO ARMY. Cure of RB-reported French maintenance problems is to GO REGIONAL???

Posted by JosephMendiola 2008-06-07 00:49|| 2008-06-07 00:49|| Front Page Top

#10 Hell, if the US Army Reserves had those kind of numbers, heads would roll. The frightening fact about US military power versas the rest of the world is that the reserve components of the US military {National Guard and Reserves} are better equipped, better maintained, and have more recent combat experience than just about all of the NATO countries.
Right now it looks as though France is in the same position as Russia is : conventional forces are falling apart and the only claim to major power status is the possession of nuclear weapons.

Posted by Shieldwolf 2008-06-07 03:58|| 2008-06-07 03:58|| Front Page Top

#11 41% of tanks, an average of 40% of military helicopters, and 33% of the fighter aircraft are operational? That's an average of 35% of France's military force.

A lot more than I'd exected.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-06-07 06:35|| 2008-06-07 06:35|| Front Page Top

#12 I think Sarkozy knows this is disgraceful.

Oh, well, he sure does, defense budgets are to be cut down again and army manpower reduced (link in french)...

Because, unlike what you think, sarko is NO reformer, and the easiest way to carry on with the failed and continually failing "french model", constructivist, statist and collectivist, is to use the defense spendings are a variable.

I know tanks, helo's, and jets take a lot of maintenance, but this sounds ridiculous.

Nope, this is factual; this is a long standing problem, started with the socialists using defense spending as a budget variable (just like sarko still does), and was compounded by yacoub ibn shiraq (you guessed it) turning the french army into an all-volunteers forces, following the putative gaullist doctrine (de gaulle truly has been the single most harmful french politician of all 20th century, bar none); of course, this broke down the army, because public finances simply weren't up to the task, thanks to the GREAT managing of France by the enarchy, because the "military-industrial complex" is a semi or fully nationalized mess, and because the doxa and even the dogma of France since the 60's have been violently anti-militarist, anti-patriotic, and anti-french, to put it bluntly.

So, you've got a demoralized army, materials falling apart, with about 20% of the newly enlisted being Youths (up to 30-40% in some units of the ground army) who basically won't fight for France especially against a muslim army and who pose enourmous cohesion and disciplinary problems...

Not new, I mentioned those facts to my grandfather (who has seen combat, unlike many of the commenters churning the usual clichés about the french army), a WWII veteran and long-time mountain trooper, and it was around 2000 I think.

Bottom line is, France has no army anymore, it just has an hardcore of elite or special troops, to be used as an expeditionary force, to preserve the "french interests" in africa (that is, the Françafrique, the privatized continuing colonization of "former" african possessions, to the benefit of free-mason & gaullist netwotks).
The army can't protect the territory anymore, and the police forces, both civilian and paramilitary, are stretched to the limit against the *continual* frenchifada, have lost the streets anyway, and are neutered by a cowardly political establishment and a leftist justice system, and prefer to harass drivers and smokers rather than the Youths... all this in a context of breakdown of values, bankruptcy of the State (as publically acknowledged by the prime minister), structural bankruptcy of the smothering welfare system (enabled by the commies during the provisional gvt right after WWII to be a SEPARATE COMMUNIST entity from the State, the social security actually has a budget greater than the french State's), the highest level of taxation in the world, a civil society locked by the (commies-enabled) State-approved unions & the (commies-enabled) special status civil servants (about 1/4 of the workforce), a climate of perpetual intellectual terrorism by the Enlightened Elites & the chattering class, backed up by "hate laws" and State-funded "ngos" that sue anyone who dares to bite the line, AND an aging european population, faced with a younger and growing (if only by the 300 to 500 K coming to France each year) african & arab population that see NO interest in becoming "french" (I don't mean, just the ID papers), because they despise us,...

Pretty neat result for the gaullo-communist Vth, and for the f***ing Republic in general, don't you think?

Posted by anonymous5089 2008-06-07 06:39|| 2008-06-07 06:39|| Front Page Top

#13 A5089, you've posted some great comments previously, but this has to be your single best contribution. Very succint. Very true. Smug Americans only have to substitute USA for France and Hussein for DeGalle and the future is clear. DeGalle was a smart-assed elitist who hated his own country. F**king Hussein is the same. The creeping socialism here is all too apparent. Just like a gawddamn mound of slime oozing down the mountain. It produces a gnawing in the pit of one's stomach. Errr...., maybe it's just an ulcer. Anyway, like Alfred E. Neuman says, "What ? Me worry ?"

Posted by Woozle Elmeter 2700 2008-06-07 10:03|| 2008-06-07 10:03|| Front Page Top

#14 I was hoping the new French main battle tank, the "Petain" would help but after ready performance details, I think not. Key feature is the drive system which has six gears for reverse, the one forward gear is apparently for the rare occasion when they might be attacked from the rear.

Posted by Total War 2008-06-07 11:28|| 2008-06-07 11:28|| Front Page Top

#15 Anonymous: Apart from that though, tout va bien?

Posted by Peter Carroll 2008-06-07 11:43|| 2008-06-07 11:43|| Front Page Top

#16 before go too wild about the French, how do they compare with the rest of Europe?

IIRC, the French have more combat experience than other countries in the EU. When I look at the performance of German troops in the 'stan, I am truely apalled.

Al

Posted by Frozen Al 2008-06-07 12:40|| 2008-06-07 12:40|| Front Page Top

#17 A5089 Great post! Many thanks for the clarity and thought.

Posted by Canuckistan sniper 2008-06-07 12:55|| 2008-06-07 12:55|| Front Page Top

#18 The only two people outside the recently-freed Eastern European nations with a viable armed force are the Swiss and the Finns. The Swiss have an army of a half-million reserves and about 80,000 professional, full-time soldiers. The Finns have Russia on their eastern border.

British military housing is cosidered substandard by US standards. The British have housing three times as good as the French. German housing, where it exists, is ok, but the other support for German forces is limited. The Italians have a pretty good army, but their NCO corps isn't allowed to truly function as NCOs. The Norweigans and Danes have a solid core, but would be fairly quickly overwhelmed by any long-term conflict. The militaries of Britain, Spain, Portugal, and Iceland are being strangled - "there's no enemy (I.E. the Soviet Union) to fight any more".

Personally, I'm not sure about Sweden. They seem to be getting their act together militarily, and to some extent, socially. They still have a long way to go, but at least they acknowledge (privately) that there's a problem. Turkey is consumed with internal problems, and who knows what's going on with the Greeks.

Eastern Europe may just prove to be the salvation of Western Europe. They understand what too much socialism leads to. They understand the need for military defense. They understand that the Bear may be weak, but it's always hungry. I also think the "French infitada" may just be the straw that breaks the camel's back for all of Western Europe. Sooner or later, the Yoots are going to break something the French hold sacred - Versailles, Sevres, the Louvre, Notre Dame, whatever. When that happens, I think the countryside may just decide they've had enough of these spoilsports, and begin eliminating them from French soil. Whatever happens, it WON'T come from the "elite" or the urbanites. The folks of Normandy or Alsace may be less forgiving.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2008-06-07 16:22|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2008-06-07 16:22|| Front Page Top

#19 The only two people outside the recently-freed Eastern European nations with a viable armed force are the Swiss and the Finns. The Swiss have an army of a half-million reserves and about 80,000 professional, full-time soldiers. The Finns have Russia on their eastern border.

British military housing is cosidered substandard by US standards. The British have housing three times as good as the French. German housing, where it exists, is ok, but the other support for German forces is limited. The Italians have a pretty good army, but their NCO corps isn't allowed to truly function as NCOs. The Norweigans and Danes have a solid core, but would be fairly quickly overwhelmed by any long-term conflict. The militaries of Britain, Spain, Portugal, and Iceland are being strangled - "there's no enemy (I.E. the Soviet Union) to fight any more".

Personally, I'm not sure about Sweden. They seem to be getting their act together militarily, and to some extent, socially. They still have a long way to go, but at least they acknowledge (privately) that there's a problem. Turkey is consumed with internal problems, and who knows what's going on with the Greeks.

Eastern Europe may just prove to be the salvation of Western Europe. They understand what too much socialism leads to. They understand the need for military defense. They understand that the Bear may be weak, but it's always hungry. I also think the "French infitada" may just be the straw that breaks the camel's back for all of Western Europe. Sooner or later, the Yoots are going to break something the French hold sacred - Versailles, Sevres, the Louvre, Notre Dame, whatever. When that happens, I think the countryside may just decide they've had enough of these spoilsports, and begin eliminating them from French soil. Whatever happens, it WON'T come from the "elite" or the urbanites. The folks of Normandy or Alsace may be less forgiving.

Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot 2008-06-07 16:22|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/] 2008-06-07 16:22|| Front Page Top

#20 is to use the defense spendings are a variable

?????????

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-06-07 16:42|| 2008-06-07 16:42|| Front Page Top

#21 I have a Swedish acquaintance who served a tour in their Army. He got FAT during that time.

The Swedish armed forces are full of mainly weekend warriors after the Cold War, as he described it to me.

Posted by Mizzou Mafia 2008-06-07 17:00|| 2008-06-07 17:00|| Front Page Top

#22 grom variable = goldengoose in this case.

Also, for what it's worth DeGaulle was a lot of things be he damn sure didn't hate France.

It is possible to be both wrong and great.

Posted by George Smiley 2008-06-07 18:33|| 2008-06-07 18:33|| Front Page Top

23:08 Adriane
23:07 Frank G
22:53 Frank G
22:50 trailing wife
22:50 Chaviter the Wicked aka Broadhead6
22:41 mhw
22:37 trailing wife
22:35 McZoid
22:30 SteveS
22:25 Frank G
22:21 trailing wife
22:19 3dc
22:13 49 Pan
22:06 Barbara Skolaut
22:05 Old Patriot
21:56 Old Patriot
21:52 trailing wife
21:50 twobyfour
21:48 Frank G
21:28 trailing wife
21:22 Old Patriot
21:17 GK
21:01 Nimble Spemble
20:59 AlanC