Article

2008-05-23 Iraq

Powerful Iraqi cleric flirting with Shiite militant message

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Posted by GolfBravoUSMC 2008-05-23 00:19|| || Front Page|| [1 views ] Top

#1 Heart condition, eh?

Posted by gorb 2008-05-23 03:05|| 2008-05-23 03:05|| Front Page Top

#2 For all those who like to say, "the moderates are on our side, or at least neutral."

There are no moderates.

They are the other side.

Posted by M. Murcek">M. Murcek 2008-05-23 09:10|| 2008-05-23 09:10|| Front Page Top

#3 sistani hasnt been particularly helpful since the outbreak of severe sunni-shia fighting in spring 2006. hes clearly more concerned with maintaining the Hawzas influence over the Shia than with with Sunni-shia reconciliaton and Iraqi state building.(His insistence on a united Shia slate in 2005 was also harmful, although at that point simply supporting the elections was enough to be thankful for)

Its a bit odd that NOW, when Sadrs influence seems to be waning, this comes out.

Why?

1. Hes very unhappy with the growing influence of the Sunnis and of secularists (Kurds and Allawi followers) on the Iraqi govt, and the dilution of Shia power

2. Hes very unhappy with continued American influence which hes long been suspicious of.

3. Both of the above - hes suspicious of the Americans BECAUSE he believes the US will ultimately favor the Sunnis

4. He sees Maliki and other Shia pols acting more and more like secular pols, independent of the Hawza.

5. With Maliki turning on Sadr with US backing, to not stand up for Sadr would weaken the Hawza with the most conservative elements in the Shia community. Sistani is more concerned with the Hawzas appeal there than with the political outcome, which he may not think he can control anyway.

6. He is nervous about the SOFA and about the lack of US plans for withdrawl below the immediate pre-siege level. See above

Posted by liberalhawk 2008-05-23 09:13|| 2008-05-23 09:13|| Front Page Top

#4 Lots of AP spin, methinks.

To recap, gossip of private verbal conversations for which nobody will go on record are a threat to US troops.

IERs or Improvised Explosive Rumors. Shaped, to suit today's agenda.

Posted by Creling Darling of the Lichtensteiners8341">Creling Darling of the Lichtensteiners8341 2008-05-23 10:17|| 2008-05-23 10:17|| Front Page Top

#5 Well things weren't so good under Saddam. Did the Grand Dragon issue any fatwas against Saddam. Probably not--for health reasons. These guys (religious types) don't want democracy and never will. Democracy tends to make them irrelevant. It diminishes their power. The biggest threat to the other muslim mid-east countries is to have a democratic government, a free people, and a thriving economy in iraq.

Posted by JohnQC 2008-05-23 11:11|| 2008-05-23 11:11|| Front Page Top

#6 Sistani's desired end state is no different than that of Khomenei's or any other muslim holyman. The domination of islam over over the entire world, and specifically the Shia sect. The only thing negotiable is the time line and the amount of blood spilled.

Sistani will be grudgingly supportive of our efforts only when it directly increases Shia power. Now that the Sunni have turned, accepted to be included into government and American power is no longer working to destroy them, our usefulness to Sistani has vastly diminished.

Posted by ed 2008-05-23 12:32|| 2008-05-23 12:32|| Front Page Top

#7 By HAMZA HENDAWI and QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA, Associated Press Writers
......
Juan Cole, a U.S. "expert" on Shiites in the Middle East, speculated that "al-Sistani clearly will give a fatwa against the occupation by a year or two." But he said it would be "premature" for the cleric to do so now

plz use article as Shit Liner....

Juan Cole is paid for America Hater employed by the University of Michigan and Arab Slush Funds.

Posted by RD">RD 2008-05-23 13:15|| 2008-05-23 13:15|| Front Page Top

#8 He looks like he could use a truckload of Geritol...

Posted by tu3031 2008-05-23 13:36|| 2008-05-23 13:36|| Front Page Top

#9 Cole is a strong critic of Israel's foreign and military policy and its treatment of Palestinians. He criticizes the nature of America's support for Israel and the activities of the "Israel "Lobby",[58] and claims that some senior US officials such as Doug Feith have dual loyalties to America and the Israeli Likud Party.[59]

Cole's "positive" prescriptions can be summarized thus:

It wouldn't take much now to settle the Israel-Palestine thing, and the time is ripe to have Israel give back the Golan to Syria and the Shebaa Farms to Lebanon in return for a genuine peace process. The Israelis are not made more secure by crowding into the West Bank or bombing Gaza daily. South Lebanon has demonstrated the dangers of ever more sophisticated microwars over rugged territory. It is time for Israel, and for the United States, to do the right thing and rescue the Palestinians from the curse of statelessness, the slavery of the 21st century. Ending this debilitating struggle would also be the very best thing for the Israelis themselves. In one fell swoop, the US would have solved 80 percent of its problems with the Muslim world and vastly reduced the threat of terrorism.[61]

Posted by RD">RD 2008-05-23 15:25|| 2008-05-23 15:25|| Front Page Top

#10 Well, I knew he would die corrupt. Se la vie.

Posted by newc">newc 2008-05-23 16:31|| 2008-05-23 16:31|| Front Page Top

#11 A good history of peace initiatives can be found at: http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/c.hsJPK0PIJpH/b.3002199/
There have been many peace initiativessome by Israelis. Some by Arabs. And many efforts by the U.S. There are many complex issues that have stalled peace in the mid-east. The Taba Conference in 2001 proposed returning 97% of the land requested by the Palestinians but agreement did not occur on right of return. The Arabs proposed on March 28, 2002 what has been called the Arab Peace Initiative a plan that supported the 'right of return' for all Palestinian refugees and their descendents; and the creation of a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital. Shimon Peres responded that no accord can come to fruition unless terror activities are ceased, a condition not mentioned in the Arab Initiative.

Couple this with the kind of climate created by Ahmadinejad in his bellicose statement about destroying Israel. The history of attacks on Israel by surrounding countries does not create much confidence that the Muslims would comply with any agreement.

Posted by JohnQC 2008-05-23 16:46|| 2008-05-23 16:46|| Front Page Top

#12 IERs or Improvised Explosive Rumors. Shaped, to suit today's agenda.

purty Snarky thar!

Mr. Creling Darling of the Lichtensteiners8341!

Posted by RD">RD 2008-05-23 18:11|| 2008-05-23 18:11|| Front Page Top

#13 Snark of the Day? Strong stuff

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-05-23 19:30|| 2008-05-23 19:30|| Front Page Top

23:31 RD
23:28 RD
23:22 Spike Uniter
23:17 RD
23:07 twobyfour
23:06 tu3031
23:04 RD
22:56 twobyfour
22:46 Frank G
22:37 Bobby
22:36 Rambler in California
22:27 Bobby
22:19 M. Murcek
22:16 Bobby
22:14 GK
22:13 Bobby
22:04 phil_b
21:55 SteveS
21:49 Classical_Liberal
21:38 McZoid
21:35 Pappy
21:24 Pappy
21:07 Procopius2k
20:34 DarthVader