Article

2008-03-21 Olde Tyme Religion

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-03-21 12:37|| || Front Page|| [11125 views ] Top

#1 We know that is a main reason for the pure hatred of Islam towards the west. Reason is discouraged and shamed at every turn. Obey and believe, or you will be tortured and/or killed.

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2008-03-21 12:57|| 2008-03-21 12:57|| Front Page Top

#2 Indeed. Good find, OldSpook.

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-03-21 13:58|| 2008-03-21 13:58|| Front Page Top

#3 "Fundamentalism rejects the use of reason because it threatens the ability of fundamentalists to demand blind obedience. "

And that goes for more than just Islamic fundamentalism. It is the basis for every sort of fundamentalism. Don't think ... just believe. Don't question, do as I say. Don't give a dissenting view a chance to be heard ... stamp out the blasphemous thought.

Posted by crosspatch 2008-03-21 14:01|| 2008-03-21 14:01|| Front Page Top

#4 And that goes for more than just Islamic fundamentalism. It is the basis for every sort of fundamentalism.

yes, but the difference between Islam and all other religions is that violence is actually condoned by Mohammed in the Koran. Kill the non-believers. So while you can get a charismatic "Christian" leader or even Buddhist leader, etc. who can get a cult to drink kool-aid or worse, perpetuate a massacre, they clearly are not following Christian or Buddhist, etc. principles. You can have a cult of fanatics over anything that a leader can rally the sheep around. But the written text of Islam are very clear - kill the non-believers.

But most Muslims are just normal people like you and me and they really just want to raise their kids and have a good life. So the Pope's appeal to their reason to reject violence and evil is very threatening, and perhaps eventually fatal to the tenents of the Islamic religion.

I think Islam can exist - but I think that it can not exist as it does today unless it is completely separated from the outside world. With global communications, Internet, cell phones and all other forms of instant communication, it makes it far more difficult to create the "them v/s us" mentality that Islamic leaders require to whip up the masses into a bloody rage.

Posted by Woodrow Slusorong7967 2008-03-21 14:28|| 2008-03-21 14:28|| Front Page Top

#5 "Unless I am convinced by proofs from Scriptures or by plain and clear reasons and arguments, I can and will not retract, for it is neither safe nor wise to do anything against conscience. Here I stand. I can do no other" - Martin Luther, when asked that he publically recant his books and writings. He also had a thing about every man (or woman) being their own priest (or religious authority), being able to read and understand the Bible in their own language, and to discuss in a logical manner many of the finer points. I can see where fundamentalist Muslims would have some heartburn over that whole concept.

Posted by Sgt. Mom">Sgt. Mom 2008-03-21 14:55|| http://www.celiahayes.com]">[http://www.celiahayes.com] 2008-03-21 14:55|| Front Page Top

#6 The only problem with Martin Luther is he eventually became dogmatic about Sola Scrptura and abandoned reason at that point. Not to belittle Luther though; Christianity was in trouble and Luther was what it needed, which forced te t Catholic Church on a path to finally give up striving for worldly power and redirect itself to the realm of the spiritual and salvation. But that's an entirely different item.

I was just passing down a little thought on this blessed day, Good Friday, where Christ stretched out his arms between heaven and earth, and redeemed our sins with his death on a cross, liberating us. (Speaking as a Christian).

Posted by OldSpook 2008-03-21 15:23|| 2008-03-21 15:23|| Front Page Top

#7 Hit enter too soon.

What Islam needs it its own Martin Luther. Learn to interpret not blindly and literally recite the Koran.

Unfortunately the strictures against interpretation are written into the Koran and Islam. They have boxed themselves in. It will take a brave and charismatic man to lead them away from their self-entrapment. Either that or the nearly complete and utter destruction of Islam as it now exists.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-03-21 15:33|| 2008-03-21 15:33|| Front Page Top

#8 Good posting Old Spook...many thanks. I concur with your observation regarding any possibility of a islamic reformation. The ME once produced many great thinkers, before the followers of the moongod seized power. 1,400 years later, I doubt very highly that we will see the emergence of a person with the necessary qualifications.

Posted by Rex Mundi 2008-03-21 17:47|| 2008-03-21 17:47|| Front Page Top

#9 The reason that Islam has to kill non-believers and apostates is because it can not tolerate scrutiny, and survive.

Christianity and other religions have survived 2,000+ years due the fact that it is ultimately good advice to practice charity, to forgive your enemies and to fight against one's own evil nature. But for Islam to survive it requires complete submission. Thus it can only survive in places where they literally killed off or subjected anyone with a dissenting point of view.

As they move to the west and they are forced to hear opposing view points, they are faced with the fact that "do good and avoid evil" provides for a better life both at an individual and societal level. So the clerics who want to remain true to Mohammed's teachings of either have win the war against the west, because Islam as a religion that kills non-believers and apostates simply can not co-exist with the rest of the world.

Posted by Woodrow Slusorong7967 2008-03-21 18:19|| 2008-03-21 18:19|| Front Page Top

#10 "The reason that Islam has to kill non-believers and apostates is because it can not tolerate scrutiny, and survive."

Woodrow - EXCELLENT shot - I'm sooooo gonna steal that

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-03-21 19:24|| 2008-03-21 19:24|| Front Page Top

#11 OSAMA reportedtly has acclaimed Iraq as "THE PERFECT BASE" > IMO, he is not referring to the anti-IGA/COALITION [US] insurgency in Iraq, BUT INSTEAD TO NEW ISLAMIST JIHADS AGZ PRO-WESTERN OR PRO-"MODERATE/SECUL" GOVTS IN IRAQ'S NEIGHBORING STATES, e.g. TURKEY, JORDAN, EGYPT, besides also SUPPOR FOR ANTi-ISRAELI VENTURES IN SYRIA-LEBANON + ANTI-RUSS IN CENASIA.

I see nothing to indic that Osama has changed his IRAN-MINDEDNESS/CENTRICITY vv HIS DESIRED ISLAMIST = PAN-ISLAM APOCALYPSE. Dubya's = US entrenchment in the ME + desire for continued Jihad may have induced him to link wid NUCLEARIZING IRAN BY ASSISTING IN REVIVING WAR FOR THE BORDERS OF THE OLD PERSIAN-OTTOMAN EMPIRES, ESPEC AGZ ISRAEL AND RUSSIA???

IOW, "SHIA VERSUS SUNNI" IS OUT THE WINDOW FOR TIME BEING - what matters now in ME is SAVING PAN-ISLAM + SAVING ISLAM-BASED ULTRACONSERVATISM-FUNDAMENTALISM, BE IT SHIA OR SUNNI, BY FIRSTLY ACQUIRING NUCTECHS TRANSFER VIA IRAN.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2008-03-21 20:34|| 2008-03-21 20:34|| Front Page Top

#12 OSAMA reportedtly has acclaimed Iraq as "THE PERFECT BASE" > IMO, he is not referring to the anti-IGA/COALITION [US] insurgency in Iraq, BUT INSTEAD TO NEW ISLAMIST JIHADS AGZ PRO-WESTERN OR PRO-"MODERATE/SECUL" GOVTS IN IRAQ'S NEIGHBORING STATES, e.g. TURKEY, JORDAN, EGYPT, besides also SUPPOR FOR ANTi-ISRAELI VENTURES IN SYRIA-LEBANON + ANTI-RUSS IN CENASIA.

I see nothing to indic that Osama has changed his IRAN-MINDEDNESS/CENTRICITY vv HIS DESIRED ISLAMIST = PAN-ISLAM APOCALYPSE. Dubya's = US entrenchment in the ME + desire for continued Jihad may have induced him to link wid NUCLEARIZING IRAN BY ASSISTING IN REVIVING WAR FOR THE BORDERS OF THE OLD PERSIAN-OTTOMAN EMPIRES, ESPEC AGZ ISRAEL AND RUSSIA???

IOW, "SHIA VERSUS SUNNI" IS OUT THE WINDOW FOR TIME BEING - what matters now in ME is SAVING PAN-ISLAM + SAVING ISLAM-BASED ULTRACONSERVATISM-FUNDAMENTALISM, BE IT SHIA OR SUNNI, BY FIRSTLY ACQUIRING NUCTECHS TRANSFER VIA IRAN.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2008-03-21 20:35|| 2008-03-21 20:35|| Front Page Top

#13 OSAMA reportedtly has acclaimed Iraq as "THE PERFECT BASE" > IMO, he is not referring to the anti-IGA/COALITION [US] insurgency in Iraq, BUT INSTEAD TO NEW ISLAMIST JIHADS AGZ PRO-WESTERN OR PRO-"MODERATE/SECUL" GOVTS IN IRAQ'S NEIGHBORING STATES, e.g. TURKEY, JORDAN, EGYPT, besides also SUPPOR FOR ANTi-ISRAELI VENTURES IN SYRIA-LEBANON + ANTI-RUSS IN CENASIA.

I see nothing to indic that Osama has changed his IRAN-MINDEDNESS/CENTRICITY vv HIS DESIRED ISLAMIST = PAN-ISLAM APOCALYPSE. Dubya's = US entrenchment in the ME + desire for continued Jihad may have induced him to link wid NUCLEARIZING IRAN BY ASSISTING IN REVIVING WAR FOR THE BORDERS OF THE OLD PERSIAN-OTTOMAN EMPIRES, ESPEC AGZ ISRAEL AND RUSSIA???

IOW, "SHIA VERSUS SUNNI" IS OUT THE WINDOW FOR TIME BEING - what matters now in ME is SAVING PAN-ISLAM + SAVING ISLAM-BASED ULTRACONSERVATISM-FUNDAMENTALISM, BE IT SHIA OR SUNNI, BY FIRSTLY ACQUIRING NUCTECHS TRANSFER VIA IRAN.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2008-03-21 20:37|| 2008-03-21 20:37|| Front Page Top

#14 SOrry for multiple posts - am having slow cpu.

"Pope Benedict is leading a crusade" - methinks OSAMA has just PC announced his = Radical Islam's own [counter-crusade], e.g. ala SALADIN, to save or salvage Islamism-specific JIhadism via NUCLEAR WEAPONS, as opposed to becoming reliant on "infidel" anti-US-Western nations.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2008-03-21 21:10|| 2008-03-21 21:10|| Front Page Top

#15 "I can see where fundamentalist Muslims would have some heartburn over that whole concept."

Heartburn, hell, Sgt. Mom.

Their "hearts" (really just sucking black holes behind their sternums) would spontaneously combust at such a notion.

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2008-03-21 21:14|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/] 2008-03-21 21:14|| Front Page Top

23:27 Zhang Fei
23:03 3dc
22:56 Barbara Skolaut
22:53 Eric Jablow
22:51 Eric Jablow
22:49 Rambler in California
22:47 Rambler in California
22:43 Frank G
22:43 Eric Jablow
22:42 Anonymoose
22:38 Frank G
22:36 Frank G
22:32 tipover
22:27 twobyfour
22:26 Glenmore
22:16 JosephMendiola
22:16 Jan
22:07 JosephMendiola
22:05 Col. John Smith
22:05 Eric Jablow
22:03 smn
21:53 Barbara Skolaut
21:50 JosephMendiola
21:49 smn