Article

2008-02-26 Olde Tyme Religion

Turkey in radical revision of Islamic texts

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Posted by anonymous5089 2008-02-26 12:45|| || Front Page|| [1 views ] Top

#1 If these efforts produce the Martin Luther of Islam, that would be great. Luther created an opening for individual conscience in a world dominated by dogma.

Islam still has to deal with the content of the book itself. They still have to finesse "slay the infidel" ande "wage jihad until Allah is obeyed" into something more like "turn the other cheek" and "render unto caesar." I wish them luck.

More likely they are setting themselves up as the Islamic Gorbachev. Once you admit that your system may not be the final authority on all matters, people start wondering whether there's much worth in the beliefs at all. If Islam is not the unalterable word of divine authority, then it loses its position as the legitimate conqueror of global infidelity. That would be a grand thing indeed.

Posted by Baba Tutu 2008-02-26 13:33|| 2008-02-26 13:33|| Front Page Top

#2 Well nothing has been actually published yet.

I'm skeptical that the final document will conform to the info in this article.

Posted by mhw">mhw 2008-02-26 13:35|| http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/]">[http://hypocrisy-incorporated.blogspot.com/] 2008-02-26 13:35|| Front Page Top

#3 Good luck with this one. A step in the correct direction, but will, undoubtedly, be supplanted by boomers of various sizes and descriptions with the only common denominator being influence by whack-job Islamonut "clerics."

Posted by Uncle Phester 2008-02-26 13:37|| 2008-02-26 13:37|| Front Page Top

#4 Who's gonna behead Turkey now?

Posted by danking70 2008-02-26 15:31|| 2008-02-26 15:31|| Front Page Top

#5 I saw this a while back as being inevitable. There is just no way for intelligent Muslims to rationalize several glaring problems:

1) Islam is supposed to be more "modern" than anything else, and that is why it is "better". However, even a damn fool can see that Islam is totally anachronistic and stupid in its practice. Stubbornly insisting that it is still better in any real sense has become embarrassing.

2) Reformation in Christianity utterly ignores what is preached in the Old Testament; Islam can do the same. It is dumb to use camel dung on wounds when you have antibiotics, even *if* Mohammed said to use camel dung.

3) Women are perfectly capable creatures, and men don't lose their marbles around them. Nothing in the Koran says otherwise, so let's go with that.

4) Homicidal lunatics that run around indiscriminately killing everyone and anyone have no real justification, ever. They must be stopped.

5) Nobody has any religious authority anymore. Islam has devolved into a free for all, with any kook doing things his own way. Order must be restored.

6) We Turks are better than Arabs, so what we say, goes.

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-02-26 16:02|| 2008-02-26 16:02|| Front Page Top

#6
#4(2)Reformation in Christianity utterly ignores what is preached in the Old Testament

On second thought, I'll wait for Ptah to respoind to this.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-02-26 17:14|| 2008-02-26 17:14|| Front Page Top

#7 Meh. Hadith. Let me know when it's possible to do textual analysis of the Qu'ran itself under your own name without making yourself the target of fanatics.

Posted by Mitch H.">Mitch H. 2008-02-26 17:14|| http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/]">[http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2008-02-26 17:14|| Front Page Top

#8 #6:
#4(2)Reformation in Christianity utterly ignores what is preached in the Old Testament

On second thought, I'll wait for Ptah to respoind to this.

Second thought WAS more accurate than the first, G(r)om! ;)

Christianity, as a rule, views itself as superceding portions of the Old Testament, fulfilling other portions, extending still others, AND totally ignoring some portions. You have to really KNOW your New Testament to see what applies and what doesn't. Paul called that selectivity "rightly dividing the word of truth".

The portion that causes heartburn is "replacement theology", where it is held that Christianity replaces Judaism rather than being the side-effect of extending The Abrahamic Covenant (old testament) to the gentiles. The issue then becomes how "Israelite" the Church should be.

Note that I said "Israelite": this is a reference to the people of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as an independent political entity within the Promised land. How much should the Church BE the State? Jesus and the Apostles were silent, so the standard assumption during the middle ages was "yeah. we should be the state". This, of course, despite a total lack of any commands or instruction in the New Testament that can be construed as "civil" laws, such as inheritance laws, death penalties, and the like. I personally take this silence as indicating that Christianity is a religion of people and church, not people and temple/mosque/cathedral and state, since the letters of Paul are full of instructions on how to run the local church.

At the same time, I don't think those who initially advocated the Church taking over the State did so with nefarious motives: The Church taking over the State pretty much guarantees that nobody persecutes the church members, and looking out for the welfare of the church members is the job of the Clergy. One has to be a political naif to believe that once the Church had secular government power, some unscrupulous people would fake religosity to take it over, spoiling both in the long run.

The American Compromise, in which the Government is forbidden to suppress specific denominations or explicitly support specific denominations, combined with freedom of speech and press to allow the proclamation of the Gospel was, in my humble opinion, the best damn thing to ever happen to both Church and State. The church, and religion in general, should be free to influence people, both as voters and as officials, but not legislate. As a result, lefties are still frustrated that America continues to be regarded as the most "religious" nation in the world, although the government is supposed to be agnostic.

My biggest worry is a legal imposition of political correctness similar to the Human "rights" commissions of Canada. Once you're forbidden to say what you think is the truth, one tends to notice that the squeaky (i.e. violent) wheel always seems to get the grease, so you think you need to follow the same policy to get the same effect.

When THAT happens, my friends, THEN we are truly f*ck*d.

Posted by Ptah">Ptah 2008-02-26 19:09|| http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]">[http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2008-02-26 19:09|| Front Page Top

#9 erk. I MEANT to say: One has to be a political naif to believe that once the Church had secular government power, no unscrupulous people would fake religosity to take it over, spoiling both in the long run.

Posted by Ptah">Ptah 2008-02-26 19:11|| http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]">[http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2008-02-26 19:11|| Front Page Top

#10 Reformation Ptah, the key word is reformation = return to Old Testament.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-02-26 19:32|| 2008-02-26 19:32|| Front Page Top

#11 "The argument is that Islamic tradition has been gradually hijacked by various - often conservative - cultures, seeking to use the religion for various forms of social control."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

More like the other way around, bubbe.

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2008-02-26 19:36|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/] 2008-02-26 19:36|| Front Page Top

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